What do you say to yourself, now that it is all gone?

[Turkish]

Over the years my then-spouse gradually became increasingly high maintenance.  At some point, after some 10 years or so, I thought having a child would give her a positive spin on life, that she could see wonderful discoveries and life though our child's eyes.  Boy, was I naive!  Instead she starting reliving her difficult childhood through him.  For example, she had always said her abuser stepfather had moved in when she was three years old.  Want to guess how old our son was when we separated?  Yes, three years old. :'(  Now that is what imploded our marriage, turned it from "high maintenance" into "high conflict".  I learned the hard way... .While children are wonderful blessings, they do not fix the relationship issues nor the parents, rather they vastly complicate life for all involved, even when it comes to unwinding the dysfunctional marital relationship.[/b]

I'll support this. She started checkng out after D2 was about 6 months. In the end, I told her my reservations about a second child were more due to doubts about her emotional stability. She turned it back on me and said I should have been honest. She was so desperate to have another kid that I knew she'd leave me if I didn't agree. Our daughter can never know this. And no, I would trade D2 to go back in time. I have a chance to raise a real daughter now, despite my mistaken motivations...

[NewWays]

Turkish and ForeverDad... .

When I look back... .I must admit that I too thought that since I had always really wanted children, that when her disorder really began to show a number of common behaviors, that based upon her assessment, it was all my fault... .and got into some of the thinking that a child would make everything better for us and that I had a real long way to go to do better on my end.  Again, it was probably a blessing that we never did have children since she would of used them especially in the divorce... .in all of the negative ways we see and hear all across this board.

But I could never really ever really understand or initially accept what probably were warning flags for me from her on other behaviors like her dog, if it would need to go out for any reason was clearly my job... .and when in the winter the mut wanted to go outside at 3:00am... .that for sure as had was deemed my job to be sure becuase she would never ever get out of bed at that time of the morning for ANYTHING!  I used to joking say... .what would you do if I was out of town on a business trip and our baby child starting crying or had dirty pants what would she do... .and she would always reply that when we got to the child stage, my business trips would have to cease.

ForeverDad, I really did believe that having a child would give her (and us) whole new look at life and a whole new perspective for being happier with each other.

ForeverDad... .do you think that many men feel having a child like I did... .like you did... .will "fix" their relationship/marriage issues with their mate?

When the splitting/angry outbursts from my ex-wife would cycle up and be at high levels, I would give real serious attnetion to the "what if" questions that were rolling around in my mind if having a child would make thinks better... .WOW... .are you kidding... .where was my reality screen and my head was it on my shoulders or was it someplace else?

NewWays

[ForeverDad]

ForeverDad... .do you think that many men feel having a child like I did... .like you did... .will "fix" their relationship/marriage issues with their mate?

Yes, we (both genders) were uninformed of disorders and how pervasive their effects were to perception and behaviors, percolating into how dysfunctional and unhealthy the relationships were.  For so many of us it was only after we started getting educated about the acting-out PDs that we had our "Ah ha!" moments.

I didn't even learn about Personality Disorders until 3 months before our abrupt separation, I had called the local university hospital seeking a home visit and the man on the phone said, "Sorry, no can do, you live just outside the county limits, but sounds like a Personality Dysfunction."  My subsequent internet searches opened my eyes wide.  And this was months after I'd been to a lettered therapist for three visits and all the T wanted to do was delve endlessly into my FOO background, not one suggestion about my ex's extreme behaviors in 3 sessions.

When the splitting/angry outbursts from my ex-wife would cycle up and be at high levels, I would give real serious attention to the "what if" questions that were rolling around in my mind if having a child would make thinks better... .WOW... .are you kidding... .where was my reality screen and my head was it on my shoulders or was it someplace else?

We were in appeaser, muddy doormat, Whipping Boy and White Knight modes then, we were taking all the blame and being trapped in the emotionally biased quicksand of our spouses' overwhelming actions, reactions and overreactions.  We were behaving as the world does, reacting to the disasters, sabotages and emergencies and unable to be effectively proactive.

[NewWays]

ForeverDad... .

Yes, your wisdom and insight is right on!

Being in that mode almost was our total demise.  The real question is why were we in that mode?

Your help and input is greately appreciated... .that is why I really think you and your team here... .are the best of the best!

NewWays

[livednlearned]

Being in that mode almost was our total demise.  The real question is why were we in that mode?

Really really really bad boundaries.

[NewWays]

Lived n Learned, Turkish, ForeverDad and all... .

What ForeverDad and I commented on about... .the out of touch thinking that bringing a child into the relationship might solve the PD issues... .is that thinking unique to men?  Or do women who have a disordered spouse have like thoughts that a child can help improve the relationship?

NewWays

[ForeverDad]

I think it's partly that we just couldn't give up, rescuers that we are, and when everything else failed to fix it all we then reasoned that adding children into the mix would change things for the better.  We just couldn't imagine that having children, widely considered blessings, would actually make thing worse and vastly more complicated!

[livednlearned]

Lived n Learned, Turkish, ForeverDad and all... .

What ForeverDad and I commented on about... .the out of touch thinking that bringing a child into the relationship might solve the PD issues... .is that thinking unique to men?  Or do women who have a disordered spouse have like thoughts that a child can help improve the relationship?

NewWays

I knew N/BPDx long distance, kinda vague for about one year.

We began emailing and talking in January of 2000.

He flew out in May of 2000.

We got married in August of 2000.

I moved to his state shortly after.

S13 was conceived October of 2000.



It was zero to 60 in less than 10 seconds for me. I threw in completely, bought the whole package without inspecting the contents.

I love my son. Can't imagine my life without him. He pushed me to heal in a way I would never have done, just his very existence.

So it's complicated.

[whirlpoollife]

I knew N/BPDx long distance, kinda vague for about one year.

We began emailing and talking in January of 2000.

He flew out in May of 2000.

We got married in August of 2000.

I moved to his state shortly after.

S13 was conceived October of 2000. [/quote]
Wow LnL, Except for conceiving right away how similar a story.     H and I met , it became long distance , he "moved " to my state, he married me and right away we moved permanently to his state. All in a year and a half. Later on in the marriage,  I was getting older and I wanted a child. Long story for my pregnancies and I try to dig deep as to why I wanted a child with this person but  it comes to I was too naive stupid to realize that having a child made my h more permanent.

[livednlearned]

I was too naive stupid to realize that having a child made my h more permanent.

I completely projected my fantasies onto N/BPDx. He was a chameleon, and I found I could be this person I wanted to be with him. We were fantasies to each other. I look back at my thinking and my emotional state at the time I picked up and left, and underneath a confident, adventurous veneer, I was afraid of being a grown up. So I just went through the motions, hoping I would get there without having any idea how to do that.

I didn't even have a concept for red flags. 

[gherkins]

I look back at my thinking and my emotional state at the time I picked up and left, and underneath a confident, adventurous veneer, I was afraid of being a grown up. So I just went through the motions, hoping I would get there without having any idea how to do that.

I didn't even have a concept for red flags. 

I think a lot of people on this site, men and women, identify with this scenario.

[NewWays]

gherkins... .

During it all... .did you never feel or see even one red flag?

Some of it is, I think personally that you never see the red flag... .but also... .in many cases, you see the red flag but are in denial!

Or a combination of both.

NewWays