Friends...

[AlonelyOne]

One of the hardest struggles through all this has been dealing with friendships. The main problem is that most presume that this is just a bitter divorce between two very hurt individuals - they have no grasp of the insanity and history of years of abuse.

The problem is, she has a small cadre of supporters and friends, her boyfriend, etc.  I only have a small handful of friends (partly due to my working out of state, and having relocated to her state - thus the majority of my friends are in fact out-of-state).

There are a few, but they're taking that backseat approach. And honestly, I can't blame them. But the result is, I am left alone, unsupported, with almost zero human interaction, while she has her support. Most of my attempts to socialize over the past several weeks have been sabotaged by her, further isolating me.

Last night, I kind of got into it with a friend. I had asked her a question knowing she is knowleadable on BPD.  Which she got defensive, and immediately rebuked me as to whom it related and how if it was just me diagnosing, I need to stop.

I retorted that no, it wasn't just me. That it was a licensed therapist. To which she inquired as to why no diagnosis was made.  To which I exclaim I DON'T KNOW.  (And why is that? why does it so hard to get an actual diagnosis? What does it take? The behaviors were clearly observed. Some of the worst our therapist had ever witnessed. Why can't I get a diagnosis? But that's beside the point.)

How do you get it across that no, this isn't just two bitter people. This is one insane person... .telling an abundance of lies. Not just perceptions, or differing views of events, but flat out lies. 

?

Cause it gets so exhausting being isolated... .

[Aussie JJ]

Mate,

Their is no answer to this, I burnt my mother out with constantly leaning on her.  I then identified some of her issues that dont make her the most appropriate support for me. 

Their is no way I can tell you who is the best support or what to do other than reconnect with everyone and concentrate on things that are not your ex and not depressing.  Do stuff that makes you feel happy at that point in time.

Get a good P and spend the money their as it helps massively.   If it wasn't for my P I wouldn't be here now. 

[livednlearned]

It feels bad when friends don't validate what you're going through. Actually, it feels bad when anyone doesn't validate you. Period.

I found that my friendship circle got really small after my divorce. Either I perceived, or accurately sensed, that people wanted me to be strong and just settle into things without complaining too much. Sort of like when someone gets really ill, and there is a shower of attention, and then not much else past that. I started to see that I had friends who liked things superficial, and then I had friends who could really go there with me. Those are the friendships that got stronger. The other ones sorta feel shallow and chilly a bit. We're friendly, and I like and respect them, but I don't confide in them or look to them for support.

Also, the kind of support you really need right after or during a divorce only a T can provide. Friends are going to want to comfort you and many aren't going to understand validation, or have the skills to help you to move through this in one piece. Comfort is great, but you also need some real talk.

I learned to dump my big burdens on T, and that helped me be present and reciprocal when I was with friends. I'm coming up on 4 years since I left, and I rarely talk about the custody stuff with my light friends. My close friends are the ones who can handle it, and who can tell me they need to talk about themselves now 

Divorcing is such a big shake-up. It made me restructure my entire life, top to bottom. This is when big shifts happen, including making room for new friends who aren't afraid of what you're going through.

[david]

I lost some friends. I came to the conclusion they were not really good friends and left it at that. Ex did a major smear campaign against me in the beginning and it appeared to be working at first. Eventually many realized I wasn't the monster I was being made out to be.

I found a therapist (after a few tries) that was a good fit for me and that helped a lot. I found this site and that helped a lot.

Over time (several years had gone by) I had ex friends come up to me to tell me how crazy my ex was. I said little and usually said I hope ex is happy or something like that.

I had people that work with my ex actually find me and tell me about some of the things my ex was saying about me. I usually laughed since they were so over the edge looney.

My biggest concern was out two boys. Ex had me pegged as the villian at their school and it took two years before they figured it out. I stayed focused on the boys and let them know I wasn't going away. It was tough for a while but once they figured it out things became very easy for me there too.

I actually had a friend that apologized to me because he started to distance himself from me because he said "he couldn't believe someone would do the crazy things I was telling him that my ex was doing." He figured it had to be me that was the problem. One day he went to his dentist and his dentist started talking about his ex and she has this thing called borderline personality disorder. His stories were so similar to mine my friend realized I was not embellishing things I was telling him. He actually apologized to me.

Things do get better.

[gherkins]

The husband's ex got one of his friends in the divorce, but wasn't able to hide the crazy long term. Most of our friends stayed either neutral or in our corner. Like David said, the sphere of influence around their daughter has had the most negative impact.  Having a therapist, or even a support group like NAMI, is a lifesaver because you can unburden yourself from all of the festering negativity and not dump it on your friends.

[PinkieV]

We got my SS's entire extended family on their mom's side - my DH's uBPDew burned all her bridges with her family after years of crazy. Grandparents, aunts, uncles, and cousins welcomed us with open arms. Hang in there - it may take awhile but they'll figure it out.

[buterfly]

I, too, am dealing with a lack of friends. Mostly because my relationship with my BPD left me isolated. Any friend I ever had he put down or was jealous of... .Funny how his family says it was unhealthy because we were together all the time, not understanding the grief I endured anytime I attempted to fly solo (including my grandmas funeral).

Anyway, I have also dealt with the... ."Who are you to diagnose?" From my BPD and family, and I tell them, "I am not looking for a diagnosis, but am simply looking for ways to cope, answers, as well as validation, because I don't understand how the man I love, and who loves me could treat me so badly." This response seems to make sense to most (not my BPD). I have done my fair share of research, etc. and still in my heart, BPD makes the most sense to me.

[ForeverDad]

Last night, I kind of got into it with a friend. I had asked her a question knowing she is knowledgeable on BPD.  Which she got defensive, and immediately rebuked me as to whom it related and how if it was just me diagnosing, I need to stop.

I retorted that no, it wasn't just me. That it was a licensed therapist. To which she inquired as to why no diagnosis was made.  To which I exclaim I DON'T KNOW.  (And why is that? why does it so hard to get an actual diagnosis? What does it take? The behaviors were clearly observed. Some of the worst our therapist had ever witnessed. Why can't I get a diagnosis? But that's beside the point.)

How do you get it across that no, this isn't just two bitter people. This is one insane person... .telling an abundance of lies. Not just perceptions, or differing views of events, but flat out lies.

I have also dealt with the... ."Who are you to diagnose?" From my BPD and family, and I tell them, "I am not looking for a diagnosis, but am simply looking for ways to cope, answers, as well as validation, because I don't understand how the man I love, and who loves me could treat me so badly." This response seems to make sense to most (not my BPD). I have done my fair share of research, etc. and still in my heart, BPD makes the most sense to me.

There are at least a few reasons why a diagnosis isn't made and why court seldom cares about one.

• In the past BPD was considered untreatable and so insurance companies did not want to pay for therapy sessions.  (DBT or CBT can work - if the patient sticks with the therapy and applies it.)  Often the therapist would list an alternate diagnosis, if any becomes known, such as Bi-polar, PTSD, etc.



• If the pwBPD learns of the diagnosis then it might trigger intense Denial and the patient would end the sessions.



• Courts are not interested in a label, they deal with the behaviors.



• Courts and other professionals don't want us to "play doctor".

If the professionals are so reluctant to make a diagnosis, no wonder the courts are also reluctant to seek a diagnosis.  Also, they have little or no interest in fixing either parent.  They deal with them as they are.  Yes, they might order Anger Management for a few sessions, but whether it helps or not generally that's about it.

That's why we often say to focus with the court and other professionals on the behaviors and behavior patterns and not a potential diagnosis.

[david]

My ex was diagnosed with PTSD, sleep deprivation, and major depression with psychosis in 2007.

We just finished a custody eval ( a few weeks ago ) and I discovered ex is seeing the same T. Ex is now diagnosed with adjustment disorder. I agree with foreverdad, I think the diagnosis is so the T gets paid. I think BPD would not get paid for this long. The T has to play the game with the insurance and the technical aspect of an actual and correct diagnosis on paper is not as important. It could also be that my ex has the T exactly where she wants her and is playing the same headgames she played with me. In either case it doesn't matter. Ex's behaviors are the only things I am concerned about because it affects our two boys.

[AlonelyOne]

Yes, the smear campaign. There are many in our social circle who have been given the impression that I was abusive, even physically. Or that the only reason I wasn't was that she spent her entire marriage cowering and never speak up. This is so far from the truth, and in fact almost an identical reverse pattern.

But it makes for a lonely living... .

I am also hurt, because I've always tried to be there for friends. Help them move with my trailer. Fix their flat tires. Etc. Etc.  I really don't ask anything in return, just pass the karma so to say.

So when I found myself broken, having come home to find much of the house moved out and what was left looked akin to if a tornado had gone through.  That no one was there to help me... .so ya, it hurt.

Makes you feel rather friendless... .

(caveat, I do have friends who are all out-of-state, and check up on me online periodically, but sometimes you just need someone in the flesh)

***

More and more I am learning that I just have to minimize ALL contact.

[livednlearned]

More and more I am learning that I just have to minimize ALL contact.

It sucks. You're down because your marriage hit the wall, and then friends don't show up. A doubly whammy.

When people turn away, sometimes it's because they can't handle the vulnerability they feel about your situation. They want to ask how you're doing, but they have their own lives, their own distractions, their own channel tuned to drama 24/7. So they let things slide, then they feel guilty, then they disappear. They might think that they can help you fix a tire, but not hear the messy emotional stuff.

It's not about you, it's about them. When someone is vulnerable, it takes courage to step into that cone of pain and be a solid friend.

They know you're hurting, and that they aren't there for you. If you want their friendship, and you care about them, seek them out. Tell them how you feel. Tell them you care about them.

It's hard to do, right? I think that's how a lot of them feel too.

[AlonelyOne]

[quote author=livednlearned link=topic=229133.msg12464825#msg12464825 They know you're hurting, and that they aren't there for you. If you want their friendship, and you care about them, seek them out. Tell them how you feel. Tell them you care about them. [/quote]
Probably some sage advice there... .

[livednlearned]

They know you're hurting, and that they aren't there for you. If you want their friendship, and you care about them, seek them out. Tell them how you feel. Tell them you care about them.

Probably some sage advice there... .

Be gentle with yourself. This is a process, and you're in the darkest part right now. It gets lighter over time, and that might be when you feel ready to tackle things.

My therapist told me that there is this period during a personal crisis when feelings are super raw, and that's the time to stretch yourself. Stuff can get pretty messy, but things can also work out in positive ways, despite the mess.

For me, being so codependent, being such a pleaser and appeaser, I went through this really surprising "f@ck y0u" phase that took me and everyone around me by surprise. It was both exhilarating and unnerving. My boss had been working with me for years to get me to be more assertive, and when that ship came in, it shocked everyone. I said no to things, spoke my mind, wouldn't stand down when my supervisor confronted me. Things sort of settled down over time and I'm not nearly as intense right now. But I know I can bring it if I need it.

That goes for being assertive about vulnerable things too. I find I need to dig into that same tool set, the same courage, the same backbone, to have the strength to be real with someone. It never seems to get easier, but at least the tools are there.

[maxen]

this thread is very beneficial. thanks to everyone who posted.

after my d-day the social isolation (and my wife's repeated, vindictive, sadistic acts of narcissism) cost me my stability. i had been very invested in my marriage (however rough it was), and have no sibs, and then my mother died, and my T had to leave the city. that T was very good and spotted the BPD (and the one i've got now is even better) but i was paying her to get conversation. one truly altering thing that came out of it was to discover, as others have here, the remarkable depth of those (few) people who really are friends. i've also reconnected with family in a big way. these are very good and permanent changes. but i had to reach out for it, and i don't find that easy. and if i ever knew ahead of time that, for whatever reason, i was going to go back to the places i've been in my mind this past year ... .

I actually had a friend that apologized to me because he started to distance himself from me because he said "he couldn't believe someone would do the crazy things I was telling him that my ex was doing." He figured it had to be me that was the problem. One day he went to his dentist and his dentist started talking about his ex and she has this thing called borderline personality disorder. His stories were so similar to mine my friend realized I was not embellishing things I was telling him. He actually apologized to me.

wow that's nice to read.

How do you get it across that no, this isn't just two bitter people. This is one insane person... .

this is a hard one. it does sound like special pleading or superciliouness or comedic relationship talk to say "my spouse is crazy." yet in our cases that's the actual fact. i have mentioned it to a select few and they received it without hesitation and opened up themselves about some of their own experiences, with BPD in two cases and with the crazy in other cases. i appear to be lucky in this. perhaps try to speak about it in reserved tones and couch it with something like "this isn't me saying these things" but above all choose carefully the people you mention it to. what buterfly described was very good, i think.

Divorcing is such a big shake-up. It made me restructure my entire life, top to bottom.

yyyyup.