Other shoe dropped today, 16D wants to move out

[SeaSprite]

As some already know, D16  has been seeing a 29 y/o man, they started dating secretly, after much angst and drama when it came out I decided to let it play out. Then more drama (including cutting and suicide notes while I was in hospital getting a hysterectomy) and I said he needs to see her at our house if they are going to see each other (It looked like she was doing all the work and he wasn't as invested as she was) and that's been working for the past few weeks. I've also been having her keep her electronics in the common areas of the house, because it looked like she was getting wound up in text drama hiding out in her room, and I wanted an earlier warning when drama was flaring up.

So today he was going to maybe come over. Then D16 wanted to talk to me, and it didn't go so well. She says she can't handle having all these rules, and it's getting in the way of her relationship. She says she wants to move out. I tell her of course she can move out when she's ready to be independent. She says since she doesn't have a job she'd need to move in with his family (he lives with mom and grandparents) for now, but she doesn't want him to get in trouble if her dad or I called the cops. I told her I'm still legally and morally responsible for her, and that I wasn't going to promise not to involve law enforcement. She says she can't stand living under my rules but doesn't have the means to move out, and I agreed that that sucks, that sounds like a very normal frustration of being a teenager, and that I hoped she'd have patience.

She's hurt because he doesn't come over as often as she'd like, and mad at me for not letting her go see him.

Right now they are on the phone together, I have no idea what kid I'm going to have when she gets off the phone but I'm pretty sure it won't be her best self. She's likely going to be self-destructive or ready to pack a bag and wait for him to pick her up.

Sorry if this is incoherent, What do I do if she is willing to move out in spite of giving up all the perks and resources that go along with living at home?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Rapt Reader]

SeaWalker, what happened after your daughter got off the phone?

Did she stay at home, or did she fight to leave?

In some states a 16-year-old is still a minor, and letting her move in with a 29-year-old could be unlawful in some way.

In other states she would be of legal age, and she wouldn't be causing any legal troubles for anyone if she moved in with him.

Do you know the laws of your state? Maybe that information could help you in some way... .

[jellibeans]

dear seawalker

I am so sorry you are struggling with your dd right now. I am having a hard time understanding what a 29 year old man is doing with a 16 year old. Is her bf really immature for his age? He lives at home and has no job? I really think you need to find out your rights in this situation. I have called the police before to simply ask their advise as well and they have been very helpful. Have you been able to have conversations with the bf? Does he seem like a good person and has the best intensions for your dd16? I will tell you your dd16 probably doesn't care what she is giving up by moving out. Please keep us posted... .this is a really tricky problem for sure and I wonder what your dd would do if the relationship ended? Is she emotionally mature enough for all this?

[mama72]

SeaWalker-

I think our pwBPD cause us to doubt our common sense, mine does it to me all the time. When I doubt my intuitions and common sense, many times we both pay the price.

You dd is 16, he is 29. No way would I allow her to move in with him and I would find out what legal actions I could take if she did.

At 16, teens with healthy mental states, have a hard time with relationships. She is not mentally, emotionally equipped to deal with this situation if it does not go well.

This is just my opinion, of course, you know your dd best. Keep us posted on how things are going.

Blessings.

[.cup.car]

Pardon me for jumping in, but I don't understand what either party is getting out of that relationship. In rare cases this age gap can work, but your daughter suffers from a severe mental disorder, and the man she is seeing still lives at home at 29. Those are two pretty big red flags that shouldn't have been ignored.

Don't allow her to see this guy. He's had a decade to move out of mommy and daddy's basement, yet he seems to have spent his time picking up underage girls instead.

[SeaSprite]

Thanks for the input... .

D16 did not take any further action after she got off the phone last night. This morning I checked her phone before she got up (she currently can't have the phone in her room and can't change the pin without telling me if she wants to keep the phone). She had deleted all the texts from yesterday, but this morning he sent a long text saying that she needs to think about what she's doing and not cause drama with her family because it will cause more problems, like not being allowed to see him at all.

BF's dad's family is Hawaiian, BF grew up on the islands, in what sounds like a patriarchal, surfing and spearfishing lifestyle. He has a cousin who is married to a much older guy. He spent six years or so in the Army, not sure what else he's done. For some reason, he moved to the mainland to live with his Russian mom and grandparents while he figures out what to do next. He was in school to be a medical tech, but now that school is being sold after an investigation into misleading students with inflated job placement and salary claims.

As for the legal stuff- when I first found out she was not hanging with the friends she said she was hanging with, and several hours of checking in with friends and her phone records we found out about the guy. She was at his house, had turned off her phone and wasn't coming home so I called the police. I also got his number from our phone records and sent him a text that she needed to come home. She did, and there was a police officer at our house waiting for her.

But... .the crappy thing about the law in our state is that the age of consent is 16, so no laws broken unless he is her teacher or employer.

The law MIGHT step in if she runs away. In our state, if a relative takes custody without parent consent, the police will get involved. It is less clear what would happen if she is voluntarily going to stay with another family. I would call the police, and they may or may not be any help.

Currently, they are only allowed to see each other if he comes here, and then they are allowed to walk into downtown or to local parks.  Which is why she's upset, because he doesn't have the time/ make the effort as often as she would like, and she wants to go see him.

It looked like she wanted me to change the rules to keep her from moving out, which I wasn't willing to do.

I had thought the relationship, such as it is,  would have died out before now, he didn't seem into it enough to keep it going. Now I'm wishing I'd forbidden her from seeing him when I first found out, it had seemed like it was too late since she was already involved and "in love", and that she needed to let it play out.

She just walked into the room, she's talking to me like nothing happened. I told her I thought she was mad at me, and she said she was never mad at me just frustrated with the situation (?) she doesn't know what she wants to do but as long as she has to live here she might as well make the best of it.

It seems that even if he doesn't have enough sense to date someone more age appropriate, he does have enough sense not to encourage her to run away.

I think he actually talks her down when she starts flipping.  But when HE is the problem, then she has a bigger problem. The thing is, if it wasn't him, it would be someone else... .so I'm not sure getting rid of him would even help?

[HealingSpirit]

Dear SeaWalker,

I read your post yesterday, and I wanted to respond at length, but every time I start, I get interrupted.  Our situations with our DDs are SO similar!  My DD also wants to move (across the country) to live with her BF22.  So, I feel your pain and frustration with your DD16!

I have to go now, but I promise, I will respond later.  I'll share my story with you and tell you what worked, and what hasn't worked, and also where we are in the struggle.

Hang in there!

[HealingSpirit]

Dear SeaWalker,

I'm finally getting back to you.  I hope I'm not too late to be of any help.  I know how scary this is for you.

She says she can't handle having all these rules, and it's getting in the way of her relationship. She says she wants to move out. I tell her of course she can move out when she's ready to be independent. She says since she doesn't have a job she'd need to move in with his family (he lives with mom and grandparents) for now, but she doesn't want him to get in trouble if her dad or I called the cops. I told her I'm still legally and morally responsible for her, and that I wasn't going to promise not to involve law enforcement.

She says she can't stand living under my rules but doesn't have the means to move out, and I agreed that that sucks, that sounds like a very normal frustration of being a teenager, and that I hoped she'd have patience.

She's hurt because he doesn't come over as often as she'd like, and mad at me for not letting her go see him.

Wow!  Is there some hidden "BPD script" out there somewhere that pwBPD use?  I swear they use the same lines!  My DD17 said almost the same thing to me last month.  Strange how they don't see the world as others do, so they have no idea how mismatched their relationship looks to others during this particular age phase of their lives. 

I understand why you think it's probably best to let them "play it out" [continuing the theatre metaphor] because my hunch is, if you forbid her from seeing him, she'll just sneak around and see him anyway.  And forbidding her from seeing him might make him even more attractive to her because of the added "forbidden fruit" aspect.  This is precisely why my DH and I have allowed our DD17 to continue seeing her BF22. 

That said, it also sounds like your DD's BF would NOT encourage her to sneak around behind your back.  So, if you talked to him (privately) maybe you COULD actually terminate their r/s for now? (Invite him to look her up again when she's 18?)  This is such a tough call though!  I know how hard this is to deal with.  In our case, my DD's BF is respectful to us in person, but he has demonstrated that he will take DD's side and be sneaky with her behind our backs.  He has snuck in through her window, or come over at 4:00am to sleep with her, AFTER we said he could not spend the night.  So, we know this strategy won't work with our DD's BF, or we'd have already talked to him.  But, maybe it would work for you and yours?

We have talked to DD's BF privately about our concerns about their r/s, and invited him to "keep his eyes open" and pay attention to the way our DD misinterprets our love, concern, and rules.  Because if she does it to us, she'll do it to him too.  The conversation backfired, as it resulted in BF also seeing us through DD's warped vision.  Even though he's 22, he's still VERY much a teenager.  -sigh-  So much for leveling with an adult.  He isn't one yet.

Currently, they are only allowed to see each other if he comes here, and then they are allowed to walk into downtown or to local parks.  Which is why she's upset, because he doesn't have the time/ make the effort as often as she would like, and she wants to go see him.

I think you've done a great job setting limits and respectfully working with your DD until it blows over!  Her BF's lack of availability is a natural consequence that your DD must somehow learn to accept and deal with.  I'm sure it bothers her to come face to face with the reality that her BF is not as attentive as she'd like, so naturally, she's taking it out on you.

It looked like she wanted me to change the rules to keep her from moving out, which I wasn't willing to do.

Am I correct in understanding that your DD wants you to change the rules (as in RELAX the rules) so she can go see him on her own terms more often?  I can't help but wonder how she would respond if you did the opposite and cracked down harder?  You know your DD best, and I'm not trying to sway you either way.  I just wonder if at some level, your DD might WANT you to break off their r/s?   

I've noticed with my own DD that sometimes (not very often), she WANTS to be able to blame me for not letting her do something she doesn't want to do in the first place, so she'll get herself grounded, rather than tell her friends (or BF) she doesn't want to go.  Could your DD be unconsciously doing this?   

It's so hard to tell what the right step is!  I feel like I'm walking a tightrope and whatever step I take could have disastrous results.  Do you also feel this way? 

I will tell you my DD's intention to move out has been temporarily put on hold--of her own choosing.  (Keeping our fingers crossed that the hold becomes permanent.)  So I'll tell you how that came about.  While living here in our state, her BF lost his car, his job, and his apartment, so he had to move back in with his mother across the country.  He'd been estranged from her, so it took absolute dire circumstances for him to go home.  He never asked to move in with us, and we never offered.  In fact, we told DD and BF we thought about offering, but thought it would put too much strain on their r/s.  They both agreed with us about that.  (Whew!)

We did let him stay with us for a couple of days after he cleared out his apartment until it was time to get on the plane.  We bought the things from him that he didn't have time to sell (like his TV and some furniture) and DH & DD drove him to the airport.  Later, DD told us her BF thought our support and generosity were because "We couldn't get rid of him fast enough."  (Ouch!)

About a week after he moved, DD posted on her FB page that they're engaged.  (Ugh!)  We didn't make a big deal out of it, and DD said their plans are way out in the future.  She said BF doesn't want to marry her until she's 21. 

In the meantime, DD was furious with us because we wouldn't let her move there to be with him right now.  She told us BF was upset with us too.  After living with a month of DD's horrible mood, constant ranting and abuse, I finally gave in.  I realized she was just biding her time here, letting her anger at us fester.  So, I sat down and told my DD17, "I love you and I want you to be happy.  I know you're not happy here.  I know you plan to move into BF's house when you're 18, and that's only 3 months from now.  No one will hire you, knowing you'll be leaving in 3 months.  I know you're just waiting around and you're miserable.  So, maybe it would be best to let you move now, so you can get a job there and move forward with your life."

She said, "You mean you're letting me go?"  And I instantly had my sweet DD back.  I was able to set a few conditions about letting her move, and she agreed to all of them.   The interesting part of this is BF's family rents their home and it's too small to accommodate another person.  And BF hasn't saved up enough to move out on his own yet.  So HE told her he can't have her move there yet. 

It turns out DD misunderstood their family's "plan" to be already in the works, when it isn't.  They want to buy a duplex where the parents & younger siblings live upstairs, and BF and DD would live in the basement apartment.  But, they haven't exactly made any offers on any homes for sale, and from what DH and I could see online, there aren't any homes like that for sale there.  So, the "plan" sounds more like a long-term-goal or dream to me.

DD and her BF are still frustrated from being apart, but DD has been civil towards us and her BF has become increasingly more possessive and controlling, from 1,700 miles away.  So, we're keeping our fingers crossed that she'll get tired of his controlling ways and break it off.  He's clean cut, doesn't do drugs, and works hard.  He's a decent fellow, just immature.  They're not good for each other in the long run, so I hope it plays itself out.  I hope it does for your DD and her BF too.  

I have noticed that things go better when I stay calm and don't get my own energy up about whatever situation DD17 presents to us.  You sound like you're already pretty good at doing that, SeaWalker.     You're right that your DD will move on to someone else if/when this current "love" ends.  I hope her next "love" is a better fit for all of you. 

[SeaSprite]

HealingSpirit, it must be so hard to think about your daughter moving so far away! I'm glad his family isn't rushing to move forward with it.

Yes, I do think there is some kind of secret script somewhere, as if the regular teenager script isn't hard enough to deal with!

Moving out seems to be off the table for the moment, it's not like he's in any position to support himself much less the two of them at the moment, thank goodness. (I told her I support moving out whenever she is able to be independent: put a roof over her own head and food on her own table.)

Unfortunately, I have new things to worry about. Or maybe more of the same, just with a different slant.

Yesterday we went out to dinner to celebrate my birthday. As we were getting ready, my daughter gets this horrified look on her face and tells me the BF just fell off a ladder and maybe broke his ankle. No one is home, she wants to go take him to the doctor. After a bunch of back and forth, and clarification, I say go ahead, even though it doesn't really sound like the emergency she is making it out to be (and it wasn't, it was sprained, and she sent me a photo- it didn't really look swollen). 

So here is the real problem: She took her phone to bed (against the rules) so I reclaimed it and read her texts that she hadn't deleted yet. (One of her current conditions for having a phone is I have access to it at any time.)

Two hours before his accident, they were text fighting because she told him a guy sent her a text. Long story of drama that doesn't matter, but BF didn't like that this guy contacted her. D16 said she was just telling him because it's important to be honest about the little things so they can trust each other on the big things (heh, she got that from me, too bad she doesn't PRACTICE it with me). BF got pouty, said he wasn't going to see her anymore if there was going to be drama with this guy.

After a break of an hour or so, they had another half hour text argument about the same thing. THEN, after texting back and forth for half an hour about this other guy, BF says "oh well, I broke my ankle and need to go to the hospital."

Usually my DD is the drama queen, but in this interaction, he was clearly the bigger drama queen. So then she drops everything to go get him.

So then... .after she gets back home they are texting again, and it seems they are engaged and she has a secret ring that was some kind of family heirloom.

So my question is- do I talk to her about the texts? Not the engagement, because... .whatever. They can be engaged, it doesn't really mean anything unless and until they get married. But about how she feels about his jealous hissy fit and then the conveniently timed, "oh by the way, I broke my ankle".

In the past it hasn't gone well to directly address things I've snooped out, but it helps me to be aware so I can use the information when making my own decisions.

But this seems like a red flag to me... .a sign of his manipulative behavior that could hurt her, emotionally or even physically. I'm thinking I need to talk to her.

What do other parents think? What has helped or not helped when dealing with your child's relationships?

[jellibeans]

seawalker

I would not say anything especially since it was info you found by snooping. I think you need to ask yourself what benefit would it be for you to become involved in this relationship. Let her find out for her self and let her make mistakes. This is the time to do that while she is young. If she come to you for advise then offer it but nothing good can come from you getting involved.

[HealingSpirit]

Hi SeaWalker,

I agree with Jellibeans.  Probably best to sit this one out and let her get tired of his manipulation & control.  I feel for your struggle though!  My DD's BF is also very jealous and controlling (from 1700 miles away).  And I've observed that they both trump each others' drama. 

I agree with you that it IS a red flag.  But the way I see it, THIS is exactly what tough love on our part is all about... .letting them struggle and fail, and hopefully, eventually they'll learn on their own.

Happy Birthday!  Maybe one day, you'll have a birthday that is drama free.

 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[.cup.car]

I'll put a different spin on things.

Just after I turned 21, I moved in with my aunt and uncle. My younger cousin (she's 14) had a 16-year-old best friend that was their next door neighbor. She was over at our house practically every other day and I enjoyed her company, but there were still boundaries I didn't dare cross. I'll be quite honest; she was gorgeous, and it wouldn't have been illegal if I chose to pursue her. However, I did not see what I could have gotten out of that potential relationship if I was able to pull it off. I would have had absolutely nothing in common with this girl other than being physically attracted to each other, and even a really basic friendship flat-out wouldn't have worked. As a 21-year-old guy who was attempting to (and eventually did) move out on his own, pay bills/rent... .etc, and have actual responsibilities, there was no need for me to try and hit up a girl who's sole purpose in life was to gain Instagram followers and make sure her homework was done.

So I did not follow her back on Instagram when she followed me and routinely commented/"liked" my pictures, I did not respond to her messages on Tinder (where she posed as a 21 year old), and I did not add her on Facebook.

I don't see why a 29-year-old man (older than my manager at work) has neglected to find a job, move out, or seek any sort of responsibility in his life, ignored social constructs that frown upon grown men associating with teenage girls, and instead used his spare time to chase after somebody young & incredibly vulnerable suffering from a serious mental disorder - and then attempted to have a serious intimate relationship with them.

                                         

Don't allow your daughter to see this man anymore. She will yell and scream at you as if you're the worst parents in the world, just like she's done the past 987 times you have confronted her about something that makes her uncomfortable to talk about. I guarantee in a week's time she'll be dating the guy who messaged her on Facebook which was the source of the recent drama to begin with.

[muffetbuffet]

I agree with you that it IS a red flag.  But the way I see it, THIS is exactly what tough love on our part is all about... .letting them struggle and fail, and hopefully, eventually they'll learn on their own.

I also agree that, yes there are some red flags, but getting involved will probably not solve anything.  I always ask myself when confronted with the choice of saying something or keeping quiet... .In the whole scheme of things is this the biggest issue to deal with right now? More often than not the answer was no.  You know your child best and know how she will react if confronted.  You are giving the situation lots of thought and I am sure will handle it in the most appropriate manner.  Good luck.

[theplotthickens]

As a parent, it is my role to keep my child safe from exploitation, harm, and unsafe situations.  I would see a 29 year-old as light-years away from a 16 year-old child in maturity.  I would not give him access to my daughter under any circumstances!  As a parent, you are your child's guardian, and this is an unsafe situation for your daughter to be in - he is either damaged, sick, or looking to exploit your child for his own purposes.  No way would I be complicit in that by telling myself the newest pop psychology buzzwords: "let it go" or "you have to let them learn."  If your daughter ends up working the streets, trafficked, or online in porn,  it will be too late.   Protect her.

[Sstepdad]

As a male I find it creepy that a 29 year old would pursue a 16 year old, she is still a minor this will not help her by letting the chips fall where they may, her maturity is not developed it is already handicapped.

I don't think it will be a good learning experience like a few have said time to step in and be assertive, get rid of him.

[HealingSpirit]

Dear cup.car, Plotthickens, and Sstepdad,

I agree with all of you that it IS creepy that a 29yo man would want to date a 16yo.  And I fully agree that it is our job as parents to protect our minor children until they reach the age of majority (and beyond in many cases).   We are all on the same page here that a 29yo man and 16yo teen is NOT a desirable relationship on any level. 

The question here is how do you stop a 16yo from seeing someone you don't want them to see?  We all know teenagers are rebellious by nature.  It's a normal part of their developmental process.  It has been my experience with my DD17 that whatever we "forbid" her to do, the faster she runs to do what we have forbidden.  If I knew of a way to stop her from sneaking behind our backs to do what we don't allow, I would do it.  Do any of you have specific suggestions of things that have worked for you to stop a teenager from sneaking off to do what you have forbidden?

Personally, my first inclination would be to tell the 29yo man never to call my DD again, or we'd report him as a pedophile.  But, this teenaged girl proclaimed she was already in love with him and that the r/s had been going on a while.  So, stepping in and breaking off their r/s like that could have much more drastic consequences (like Romeo & Juliet) than letting the inappropriate r/s run its course.  Each situation must be evaluated differently and looked at from all sides.

So how would you stop this couple from sneaking around?   What I really appreciate about this board is seeing how other parents have handled the challenges they are facing with their pwBPD and learning what worked and what didn't.  There are no right or wrong answers... .only what works and what doesn't work in any given situation.  What worked for you with your teenager with BPD when you forbid something? 

What I've found works best in general is to appeal to the slowly budding rational adult in my DD.  At our T's advice, we talk to her on an adult-to-adult level whenever possible, and explain the reasons why some behaviors are not acceptable and help her see the consequences those behaviors will bring.  Then, the choice is up to her.  But each case is different.  DH and I have taken the car keys away when we learned DD broke the law by ignoring the terms of her "provisional license."   In that case, the consequences of NOT stepping in were greater than the consequences of stopping it.  Does that make sense?

[.cup.car]

You post a good question HS, how do you prevent them from sneaking around and seeing each other?

Ask questions on an adult level and let her piece it together that it's a strange relationship. Ask why he doesn't have a job. Ask how they met. Always spin the question in a positive manner - tell the story of how you and her father met. Ask what her friends think of him (if she's even told them about him at all). Ask how she deals with any guys at school that express interest in her even though she's taken (you know this is happening, you saw the texts) - throw in your own stories you probably have from high school. Pretend as if she's one of your friends and that you're both sixteen.

She'll piece it together that it's a dumb idea to be with that guy.

[SeaSprite]

Cup, I have done all of these things. My daughter always has an answer, whether it's true or not. She KNOWS intellectually. And she doesn't care. That is the essence of BPD. Emotions trump reason.

So... .The current situation. They'd been dating only at my house, under supervision. Then I let her go out with him a few times again. And got that spidy sense that she was hiding stuff, did some investigating, including asking her for her phone and looking through it in front of her so I wasn't snooping behind her back.

They are "engaged". She has a second fb page with photos of alcohol. There are nude photos in her photos folder (not on fb, probably from sending mms). She is smoking, or vaping. There is drama with a girl who claims she had also been dating the guy.

I said enough, you are not seeing this guy anymore. I took the phone and the keys. Now we wait, and I don't leave the house while I wait to see if she tries to hurt herself or run away.

She called me a b___, and I told her if I wanted to be a b___ I'd be getting him arrested for child porn, which is a felony with big boy jail. Which I might do it he doesn't stay away, but I'd rather not drag her into that legal mess and risk. That I can also call the police for the alcohol and tobacco. (16 means she is legal relationship wise this state).

Wish us luck.  :'(

[jellibeans]

Seawalker

I am sorry you are having such struggles with you dd. I would be worried too if in the same situation.

Have you tried to contact this 29yo and tell him that you are considering going to the police? I think I might call the police department and ask for advise and what your rights are. I have found them to be very helpful.

If she still has a computer she can still contact him so take all eletronics away. If she goes to friends homes or has a friend come over then you also need to be sure she is not using their phone of computer. I am really not sure you can prevent her contact with him. I hope things get better. hang in there

[pessim-optimist]

She called me a b___, and I told her if I wanted to be a b___ I'd be getting him arrested for child porn, which is a felony with big boy jail. Which I might do it he doesn't stay away, but I'd rather not drag her into that legal mess and risk. That I can also call the police for the alcohol and tobacco. (16 means she is legal relationship wise this state).

My question would be: if she is legally able to have a consensual sexual r/s with this guy, is she not legally ok to send him nude pics of herself and for him to be in possession of them? (I mean, I agree w/others that it's creepy. Just wondering about the legal part of it)

Does your dd have a history of self-harm or suicidal behavior in crisis situations?

Let us know how it goes. Hoping for the best for your dd.

[SeaSprite]

"Notably, the legal definition of sexually explicit conduct does not require that an image depict a child engaging in sexual activity.  A picture of a naked child may constitute illegal child pornography if it is sufficiently sexually suggestive.  Additionally, the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state is irrelevant; any depiction of a minor under 18 years of age engaging in sexually explicit conduct is illegal."

From the DOJ website

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Oh! Thank you for the information, that's helpful! That certainly gives you options... .

[SeaSprite]

She started out raging angry, now she is sad, the normal looking sad of a broken heart. She says she will never forgive me. I can live with that. My concern is what she does next, will she make decisions to spite me, like not doing homework, doing self destructive things, etc.

I know no one here knows, there is no crystal ball. I'm just venting my fears, my friends with perfect children can't understand, and even though they wouldn't admit it, people judge.

I am not looking forward to the next few days, while this plays out. My stomach is in knots.

My unrealistic hope is that somewhere in there she is relieved, that she was in over her head and having the heartbreak come from mom being mean is easier to live with than the heartbreak of whatever was going to happen with them eventually. That she can handle hating me in a way she couldn't handle hating him.

[jellibeans]

seawalker

I bet you are right about that... .she was probably over her head. I hope she can get through this without incident. Let the natural consequences take place for homework... .get the school involved and get their support. If she hurts herself then take to the ER for eval but only if she needs medical care. School starting soon for her? Get her involved with that right now and that might take her mind off him. keep us posted. I hope things go smoothly. Have you asked her about the crisis plan etc? What she is to do if she feels unsafe? Try to get her involved and be proactive there.

[SeaSprite]

Thanks jellibeans,

She got her GED last year and goes to the local college. She's in an online math class this summer, so far m math classes are the only classes she has done well in no matter what else is going on. I'm hoping that continues, but I'm worried about her tendency to just... .Stop.

Her fall quarter doesn't start til the end of September so she's going to have some time on her hands. And not a lot of friends to hang out with, this guy was her primary social outlet.

When this went down, and she was hurting her ammunition at me, I told her I think she's awesome. She of course said, oh right. And I said yes, you are awesome. You have a good heart, and you are smart and competent ( all true when she isn't in crisis) and if I didn't think so why would I care about your choices? I think you are awesome.

I just keep hoping that some part of her head and believed that. She did say she'd never forgive me, she was planning to spend the rest of her life with him. It sounds like, for right now, she is accepting it as over?

I am a mess on the inside, trying to be normal on the outside. I just keep hoping she will surprise me and be ok.

[HealingSpirit]

I am not looking forward to the next few days, while this plays out. My stomach is in knots.

Mine is too, just reading this!      I can't even imagine how hard this must be for you to enforce!  Parenting a BPD teen reminds me of baby-proofing our home for a toddler. We started out with all the basics to keep her safe (cupboard locks, outlet covers, stair gates, breakables out of reach, etc.), but every day, my DD got into something new that we needed to "baby-proof." It seems we are all doing that here for our teens.  Everybody's teen gets into different things and we parents have to figure out new measures to keep them safe. 

My unrealistic hope is that somewhere in there she is relieved, that she was in over her head and having the heartbreak come from mom being mean is easier to live with than the heartbreak of whatever was going to happen with them eventually. That she can handle hating me in a way she couldn't handle hating him.

Sometimes, I do think my DD does this.  Deep inside, I think they KNOW we love them no matter what. They can get mad at us for stopping them from doing things they wanted to stop anyway, and still know we love them.  But it allows them to continue to not take responsibility.

I'm glad you're home, keeping an eye on her.  It's so scary not knowing if/when they're going to run away, self-harm or attempt suicide.  I'll be thinking about you.   

[theplotthickens]

I applaud you and support you in holding appropriate boundaries for your teenager.  I have had to do that more times than I care to even talk about.  It brings up so much stress just thinking of it!

You are OK, and you are strong, whether your daughter likes your decisions or not.  Your primary role here is as guardian, and I have told my dd that I am sorry she is upset, but I am responsible to do my "mom jobs."

As a parent of a minor, you have every right to set dating boundaries.  She cannot leave or be in the company of other adults without your permission; especially if she is at-risk and has a mental illness.  Until she is 18, you are her legal guardian with the right and obligation to make decisions that are in her best interest.  I hope that empowers you and frees you from the emotional guilt that your daughter is attempting to pile on you.  You do not have to pick up that guilt trip that she is dropping.

Since my daughter has been 12, I have moved hell and high water to prevent her from being sexually exploited by older men, and I don't regret it one bit.  I am sure some of them were pimps and some were just play looking to exploit a young girl.  I let one gentleman know that I own a gun, and that I know how to use it.  (I don't own any ammunition, but I didn't tell him that little tidbit, LOL)!  My dd never did hear from that dude again!  Yes, I am one tough mother if I need to be.

Today, I was reading the "kids" version of the book on "Boundaries" listed in another thread.  I wonder if this may be of use to you, as you are holding boundaries with a teen who is resisting and who doesn't have healthy boundaries of her own.  The book is from a Christian POV, but the ideas are useful to any parent, imo.   I am working on identifying the areas that my boundaries are weak in, and where I have avoided conflict out of fear.  I hope something here will encourage and empower you! www.workofark.com/pdf/boundaries.pdf

I understand exactly how heartwrenching all of this is.  FWIW, I think what you are doing is the only reasonable thing to do.  You are modeling boundaries and you are showing your daughter that your self-esteem is NOT wrapped up in her opinions of you.  Stay strong, and the old geezer will move on to some other young girl who does not have a tough mother to deal with.  It is sad but true.

[theplotthickens]

FWIW, my 17 dd is in an age-appropriate dating relationship now with a very nice young man who is just a couple months older.  I am thrilled, but try to stay "neutral."  We went through hell with her up until this year.  Until dd was showing healthy behaviors and some maturity, dating was off the table.  That was a rule that we made in our home.  This was to encourage her to work on her sense of self, and to encourage her, by default, to make some girlfriends.   Keeping the end in mind, really helps us get through the daily drama!  I was willing to pour a lot of energy into this particular issue, so I let some other things go that were not as important in my mind.  I let a LOT of other things go, in fact.   I guess it is called BPD Family Triage. 

[SeaSprite]

Thank you healingspirit and plotthickens... . 

I'm really starting to think that she needed me to do this now, the timing was really good. As I'm looking through her phone (which she knows I have and that I've been reading), I looked at this other girl's fb page, who'd sent her a message about a week ago. There are photos of the other girl and the guy together, looks like it's for real that he was two-timing (or more). And if I was my daughter, the salt in the wounds would be that this girl was a little older and a blonde bombshell, the girls gone wild type.

Even with that information, she was still willing to keep the guy, deciding she'd "won" something. But... .that cannot feel like a win. I dated a lying guy that made me feel like a million bucks when we were together and he was with other women behind my back. It's horrible, it made me feel like a crazy person. And I was an adult, I should've known better.

This way, it's over in a way that she can explain to people maybe, that her stupid parents ruined everything, and she can save face.

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if she still tries to get back together with him. This "love" stuff is as addicting as any drug, and she doesn't have a lot of peer support. I'm thinking I need to clear my calendar for the next week or so. Her calm isn't reassuring me. I know I shouldn't borrow trouble, but we have a history... .she could be trying to wait me out, waiting for another chance.

But... .nope. Not this time.

[theplotthickens]

This is going to sound really off the wall, but I have an idea.  It worked well for us; and it is the distraction technique.  When we were on high alert during these times, my dd knew she hadn't earned a lot of trust or freedom and that we would be seeing a lot of each other.   I let her pick between signing up for some extra curricular summer activities, or hanging out and having mother daughter time.  She ended up taking 2 years of drama!  

This accomplished the goal I had of having her connect with other girls, and it also kept her busy and distracted.  She found out she was really good at it, too!  It is not going to be a question of whether they have a void to fill... .it is merely a question of what do they fill it with?  Something positive, or something unhealthy?  

I think they need to stay busy, develop interests outside of boys, and be around positive role models in order to have the resilience/self-esteem to start having healthy boundaries and relationships.

It might be off the wall, but I throw it out there because it helped us get through some of the worst times.