Telling friends about Divorce... how to describe WHY with uBPDw?

[Heartandsole]

I don't want to trash talk, I am at real low spot, throwing in the towel after 10yr marriage and 15 yr relationship.  Telling my friends that we are getting a divorce catches everyone off guard because we were "The perfect power couple"  We made it through her Cancer and all kinds of major life hurdles.  Truth is I'm shattered about this, but I've been beat down for so long and I have nothing more to give to the hard work of "fixing this".

We have many very close friends and I am feeling guilty for not trying towards reconciliation anymore as it seems selfish but is really self preservation.  Many don't even know we've been separated for 2.5 months.  Most all the dysfunction was behind closed doors, so they only know nice Mrs, Jeckyl and I still don't want to disrespect her by telling the truth.  I'm also embarrassed to admit what I've been through, my self esteem is already non-existent and I'm depressed and angry that I couldn't love enough to overcome these troubles.

It's almost like I have a need to JADE (minus the argue) my decision because it doesn't make sense and I can imagine to them it seems like "Heartandsole really just wigged out and bailed on his wife all the sudden"  I have always kept our struggles that happen behind closed doors, behind closed doors.

Saying, well you know I think the core issue is BPD traits... .They don't know What the heck BPD is, and it just seem like I'm blaming it on someone else and not taking responsibility for any part I've played.  I don't want to put a stigma on her with an un-diagnosed mental disorder either.

To the outer circles of friends, a "It just isn't going to work out" will do.  The problem is what would I say to my 8 groomsmen whose wives were bridesmaids, and are going to hear from my wife a wildly different story?

Looking for advice and perspective from others that are further down this track. Thanks.

[tiredandbroken]

Thanks for this post... .I'm in EXACTLY the same spot! Just met with the atty for first time last week and have been trying to figure out how to tell family and friends. I do have a very select few friends that have seen enough of her behavior to know that something is very wrong... .because they've asked about it very cautiously in the past... .but overall the people we know don't know about it. I'm not into defaming her character because I feel it does no good for her, our son, or me. I look forward to the responses.

[seeking balance]

 

I could relate to your post.  I, too, found myself covering up for so long that when I did tell someone the entire truth, I felt ridiculous that I stayed in it so long and when I didn't, it looked like I was flippant about marriage - which, I was not.

Friends - they are going to see and believe what they need to see.   Your ex will have a different story than you and people believe what fits into their paradigm of what they need to  believe.

Over time, the truth comes out -during that time, I had to let go over several friends.  This was hard for me.

Your real friends will be there - and you will lose some too - this is true for any divorce.  Add BPD to the mix and it is even more intense.

The best advice I read was get yourself the best therapist and attorney you can afford - both are critical for you right now.

What I can tell you, it will all be ok - give yourself the time and compassion to work through your own emotions.  It is a death and death requires grief.  None of us get married with hopes of divorce.

Peace,

SB

[Lucky Jim]

Hi H&S, Your story is quite familiar to me.  Like you, a reached a point in my 16-year marriage to a pwBPD when there was nothing left in the tank.  Those on the outside had no concept of what my Ex was like behind closed doors.  For them, my BPDxW was this gregarious, caring person, the unofficial "mayor" of our small town.  Only a few family members and intimate friends knew the real story, so it was hard for some to see the rationale for a divorce.

I've never disparaged my Ex to anyone on the outside.  It's not my cup of tea to put her down, though she felt free to blast me behind my back.  So what?  I know what the truth is.

I think you're on the right path, which leads to greater happiness.  Remember to be patient and kind to yourself.

Hang in there,

LuckyJim

[hergestridge]

I feel very bad about the failure of our 20 year long rs and I only talk about it with those very close to me. Many don't even know yet though it's been more than a month.

She, on the other hand, couldn't wait to change her facebook status (which the did the morning after).

[half-life]

Being able to explain ourself is a big part of the recovery process. Things have been so irrational, being able to make sense of the situation, first to yourself, and then to friends and families, is really a important. And as you say it should be a level headed discourse without disparaging the other.

Here are some lines I am working on.

She has strong emotional issue in private. Our daily interactions were unreasonably difficult and contentious. My effort to be compassionate and accommodating has not brought any positive outcome. This fractious relationship between us is a long running problem and resist any improvement.

This should uncover the facade. While people may not see the full pattern, close friends won't have much problem to see that she is a sad and irritable person. I wouldn't mention BPD. It is too technical and do not resonate with other people. Think more about a specific story or episode to support your story.

I also have to explain it with my inlaw, with whom I have a cordial relationship.

[AlonelyOne]

One thing I can tell you to NOT do. Is don't try to be introspective, focus on or admit to your own failings. Your ex will be sure to do that for you. The result, you'll have pretty much tarnished yourself by trying to take the high road.

"I, too, found myself covering up for so long that when I did tell someone the entire truth, I felt ridiculous that I stayed in it so long"

Ya... .I experienced that too.

[Panda39]

You are not required to say anything if you don't want to.  When I divorced my closest friends were told exactly why (was married for 20 years to an alcoholic) and they supported me before, during and after.

More casual acquaintances that asked or said they were sorry to hear I was divorcing I would just tell them "that's okay it's a good thing" I didn't badmouth my ex but that statement expressed to others that I was okay with situation. (and I was okay... .my divorce was a long time coming) That short statement usually kept most people asking further questions. If someone pressed I would just tell them things didn't work out between us and I was fine.

I also found I had become a member of the divorced people club... .I had many divorced friends and co-workers offer to listen if I wanted to talk and offer support.  They had been there and were more sensitive in their approach.  I really appreciated them stepping forward 

So do what you feel comfortable with... .as the saying goes it's really no ones business but your own.

[Heartandsole]

Friends - they are going to see and believe what they need to see.   Your ex will have a different story than you and people believe what fits into their paradigm of what they need to  believe.[/quote]
Haven't mastered the quote deal yet but the above is great, and also the bit about not being too introspective.  I err on the side of trying to be balanced and maybe take too much fault when really I feel like I gave it my all.

I can totally appreciate this and is a good reminder.  I think that people probably know the characters at play more than we think and over explaining isn't helpful. I will steer clear of mentioning BPD for sure. 

I have found myself saying something like "Some of the professionals I have employed to help me with my marital problems have helped me understand what I am dealing with and the more I learn about it, the more I realize that it is something that  I am not going to be able to fix. We both deserve to be happy and we are each getting in eachother's way."  I also try to mention that it is not a result of one thing like infidelity, more like incompatibility.

[livednlearned]

I may have a different take than others than this -- we all have different situations, and different friendships, so tactics might not be the same for everyone.

For me, I found myself trying to persuade some of my friends, maybe to elicit sympathy or head off judgment, I don't know. I always felt slightly tainted after those conversations, like emotionally drained and not fulfilled. Those are people who are no longer in my life. I don't know why. Maybe because I always knew they were judgmental, so I interacted with them as though they were judging me? As though I had to present my case to them.

Then there were friends who I felt I could pour my heart out, and they were wonderful, and become closer as I navigated the divorce and custody stuff, and they didn't think I was trying to malign N/BPDx. They just felt I was trying to make sense of things, and those friends stuck with me. They didn't exactly take sides, because N/BPDx never really cultivated friendships, he was more about having an audience. With them, I talked about how I felt, let my vulnerability show, and they rallied. I didn't say, "N/BPDx is a bleep or a blurp." I said, "I'm really hurting right now. N/BPDx wrote an email to my advisor and my boss, and I don't know what to do. I'm not sure how to handle this, and I don't know why he would do this, or if this is a sign of worse things to come."

The friends who matter, reach out to them and tell them how you feel. If you worry there will be a smear campaign, tell them that. You don't have to explain BPD, imo. Tell them who you are, how you feel, what worries you. That you're worried you'll lose their friendship.

A lot of us with kids have to deal with parental alienation, and one of the golden rules is to counter lies with truths, because the lies will manifest. To me, the ultimate truth is how I feel. I've also learned it's perfectly ok to say, "That is a false allegation. What N/BPDx says never occurred. I'm not sure why he is saying it."

One more thing! You are swamped in some serious guilt. People who stay in BPD relationships tend to feel this way -- maybe more so than most people. That's the fear, obligation, guilt thing (FOG) that lifts after you leave the relationship (but requires some serious healing and probably therapy to understand).

If you use your friendships to deal with that guilt, you might drive people away. Healthy people don't wallow in guilt like that, so healthy friends aren't going to understand why, if you feel so bad, you left. That's a conversation for a therapist. My feeling is that working out the guilt script with innocent bystanders just burns them out. They're not trained to unpack it, and it sends a mixed message, and that's just confusing... .

Last thing, I promise 

I left my 10 year marriage 4 years ago and I feel great about my choice now, but I was crippled with guilt when I left. It took years for the FOG to lift and to get a handle on the guilt and anxiety.

You can do it.

[Heartandsole]

You are swamped in some serious guilt. People who stay in BPD relationships tend to feel this way -- maybe more so than most people. That's the fear, obligation, guilt thing (FOG) that lifts after you leave the relationship (but requires some serious healing and probably therapy to understand).

If you use your friendships to deal with that guilt, you might drive people away. Healthy people don't wallow in guilt like that, so healthy friends aren't going to understand why, if you feel so bad, you left. That's a conversation for a therapist. My feeling is that working out the guilt script with innocent bystanders just burns them out. They're not trained to unpack it, and it sends a mixed message, and that's just confusing... .

Wow that is powerful advice.  I don't want to burn out my friends dealing with that guilt.  I need them to support and help pick my self esteem back up out of the gutter, and in fact I've hung out with many during our separation and I know they know our marital struggle, however I don't mention anything because I don't want to drag them down, and also I just need some distractions from ruminating on it.   

Now that I have announced plans to divorce, you are dead on- I also am crippled with guilt for not having "done enough" despite giving my heart to this woman.  I know it is the right decision (most of the time).  I am absolutely shot and have to take care of myself now and try to move on, repair and heal.  It is quite unfortunate to have to deal with a potentially nasty divorce when you are already beat down by the constant criticism and devaluing.  She seems way less phased by the prospect of divorcing, although she's got the charm up to max right now!

  I am forcing myself to take action steps to make this divorce decision to stick while a piece of me want to recycle and believe that somehow she's changed and sorted some things out like she claims, or at least work in couples counseling again like she wants to. 

I need to deal with this FOG.  Burn it off somehow.  It is thick!  I have a great friend of mine that says to me last night ":)ivorce is for people who don't Love eachother"... .the inside of my wedding band says "Love conqueres ALL".  I am asking for a divorce and feel like a gave it one heck of a shot, however I am riddled with guilt knowing I could at least try LONGER, look introspectively HARDER at my issues, and give it some more.

I am grateful I don't have kids, as that would complicate things so much more!

I have come to the conclusion that I think it is best to talk around the term BPD and yes, like you suggest talk about the way it makes me feel.  That is always honest.  Thanks LivedandLearned  I'm going to go find some FOG workshops on the site for my homework tonight!

[livednlearned]

Once you start taking care of yourself, and allowing yourself to be the worthy and whole person you are, you will draw people into your life who believe this. Monkey see, monkey do.  

When you treat yourself well, you show other people how it's done.

Not everyone in your life is going to go along with this. For some people, your determination to be healthy and strong and whole will make them uncomfortable. They might feel threatened. We like to go through life thinking that the reason we aren't happy is because of someone else, or our job, or our family, or whatever. And then someone like you comes along and starts making choices to take care of yourself, and acting like maybe you can make your life better by believing it's possible. That's going to drive a lot of people nuts. Because what if you're right? You just messed things right up for them. All their excuses look flimsy now.

Guilt is the tool we use to keep ourselves from believing we can treat ourselves well. If you deal with your guilt, it's no longer a switch other people can flip.

Things are going to get weird with friends, Heartandsole. But it's probably a lot more complex than whether they take her side or yours. A lot of it is going to be about them, and how they feel about feeling good and whole.

[ForeverDad]

You are swamped in some serious guilt. People who stay in BPD relationships tend to feel this way -- maybe more so than most people. That's the fear, obligation, guilt thing (FOG) that lifts after you leave the relationship (but requires some serious healing and probably therapy to understand).

If you use your friendships to deal with that guilt, you might drive people away. Healthy people don't wallow in guilt like that, so healthy friends aren't going to understand why, if you feel so bad, you left. That's a conversation for a therapist. My feeling is that working out the guilt script with innocent bystanders just burns them out. They're not trained to unpack it, and it sends a mixed message, and that's just confusing... .

Wow that is powerful advice.  I don't want to burn out my friends dealing with that guilt.  I need them to support and help pick my self esteem back up out of the gutter, and in fact I've hung out with many during our separation and I know they know our marital struggle, however I don't mention anything because I don't want to drag them down, and also I just need some distractions from ruminating on it.

The same principle applies when you begin to seek out new relationships such as when dating.  If you're still deep in the F.O.G. and still hurting, a date will revolve around your recent struggles with the ex, not your future.  That's why we recommend allowing time for recovery from the shell shock (PTSD) before seeking out another relationship.

[Hope0807]

I grappled with many of the same questions you are until the day my uBPDxH announced "he" is going through a divorce on FaceBook.  Yes, he did!  He had already begun a vicious campaign against me to anyone who would listen via text, phone calls, and private messages (I gracefully ignored those)…but in his endless, pathetic quest for adulation and sympathy, once he posted such a private life moment on a public worldwide forum, he fully stripped me of my own right to share with my own friends, coworkers and colleagues in my own way, in my own time.  My gloves are officially off.  For me, it will be an appropriate version of:  "The man you met and spent time with was not the man I shared a life with.  I am peaceful and safe for the first time in years."  And if they ask for details…I'm prepared to give them an education…and the truth.  I'm sure you may not have reached the point of disgust and hurt I have, but I have nothing to be ashamed of or hide anymore.  I was a good person who got mixed up with a mess of a human who used & abused every bit of my soul to be able to function on a daily basis.  I wish you peace and dignity in whatever you choose to do.

I don't want to trash talk, I am at real low spot, throwing in the towel after 10yr marriage and 15 yr relationship.  Telling my friends that we are getting a divorce catches everyone off guard because we were "The perfect power couple"  We made it through her Cancer and all kinds of major life hurdles.  Truth is I'm shattered about this, but I've been beat down for so long and I have nothing more to give to the hard work of "fixing this".

We have many very close friends and I am feeling guilty for not trying towards reconciliation anymore as it seems selfish but is really self preservation.  Many don't even know we've been separated for 2.5 months.  Most all the dysfunction was behind closed doors, so they only know nice Mrs, Jeckyl and I still don't want to disrespect her by telling the truth.  I'm also embarrassed to admit what I've been through, my self esteem is already non-existent and I'm depressed and angry that I couldn't love enough to overcome these troubles.

It's almost like I have a need to JADE (minus the argue) my decision because it doesn't make sense and I can imagine to them it seems like "Heartandsole really just wigged out and bailed on his wife all the sudden"  I have always kept our struggles that happen behind closed doors, behind closed doors.

Saying, well you know I think the core issue is BPD traits... .They don't know What the heck BPD is, and it just seem like I'm blaming it on someone else and not taking responsibility for any part I've played.  I don't want to put a stigma on her with an un-diagnosed mental disorder either.

To the outer circles of friends, a "It just isn't going to work out" will do.  The problem is what would I say to my 8 groomsmen whose wives were bridesmaids, and are going to hear from my wife a wildly different story?

Looking for advice and perspective from others that are further down this track. Thanks.

[teeoneup]

I left the house seven months ago after she assaulted me.  My two kids went with me.  I was in shock and embarrassed at what was happening, so I only told family what was going on.  Not to worry.  My stbx WBPD took it upon herself to talk to our entire social circle.  Of course she didn't tell them the truth, which has caused many friends to back away.  My kids have even had their friends back off, because their parents don't want to get involved.

Be vigilant as to what your ex is saying.   They twist the truth and use everything you have ever said against you.  better to be proactive.  I should have been.

[Heartandsole]

Thank you everyone for your posts and insight.  I have settled into letting some closer friends know more precisely about a "personality disorder" or  sometimes I say, "professionals have helped me understand what they thing I have been dealing with" trying to stay away from a specific label as she is un-diagnosed and that is just seems not right to do despite "knowing" BPD is what I have been dealing with.  She even said in a recent counseling session that she has been acting out and raging on me because of her own fear of rejection and that pretty much a synonym for abandonment if you ask me.

A phrase I have developed which is suggestive but not accusatory is "Several professionals over the years have independently suggested I look into a particular direction to understand her behavior and the more I have studied it, I agree with their hunch and unfortunately I the prognosis for real long term change is low, and therefore it is our mutual best interest to continue on our growth paths independently as I believe our marriage will continue to get in the way of both of our happiness through complacency in the good times and co-dependency."    It's slightly long winded but for people who I feel don't deserve an in-depth explanation I just say something like  "I have our best interest at heart and I am really torn up to come to the conclusion that going our separate ways is best for both of us". 

[Mr. Black]

Hi,

I am no expert but I can tell you, how I had handled this situation when friends, servants, my landlady, extended family, broker etc... started calling me to understand the issue. (They were worried and wanted us to patch up).

At first I tried protecting my wife by evading their questions but that was not working as my wife was all over the place spreading lies about me.

Fortunately I understood it fast and I adopted a different approach. I categorized my friends into 2 parts:

Part 1: My friends: These were my childhood friends who knew me long. Without going into details of BPD, I explained them (when they inquired), just the incidents in which the behaviour was evident. These incidents were such in which they were also a party (The BPD facade cannot be up always). With the help of these incidents and without much explanation, the message was communicated. 

Part 2: Her Friends: I frankly did not care, if they asked I gave an objective response following the strategy above.

Net result: My friends understood and few of her friends who asked have also understood and donot be a crying sholder for her now.

Hope this helps.

[scraps66]

I'm still living this six years post separation.  In time it will get easier.  There is no controlling what she will say and there is no sense trying to clarify what she is saying if you are confronted.  If you feel exhausted now, it will be worse gettign drawin into some kind of smear campaign.  Take the high road, there is no need to explain what has happened, not yet at least.  It's just not working, that's enough said.  It does take developing a thick skin and being able to jsut look the other way.  That can take time too.   

[NewWays]

Lived n Learned... .

I have not been on for a few weeks... .since divorce is now final and I'm in the middle of all the "final clean-up" (QDROS, etc.) as the last items before it is 100% over.

You are a rare GEM... .your wisdom, insight, empathy and open and honest comments are more valued than you really will ever know.

As I read the posts above, and your wise mind and helpfull comments, the number of "thank you's" I have sent your way are totally way below what they should be.

Thank you... .for all that you and everyone on the team do each and every day!

NewWays

[livednlearned]

Lived n Learned... .

I have not been on for a few weeks... .since divorce is now final and I'm in the middle of all the "final clean-up" (QDROS, etc.) as the last items before it is 100% over.

You are a rare GEM... .your wisdom, insight, empathy and open and honest comments are more valued than you really will ever know.

As I read the posts above, and your wise mind and helpfull comments, the number of "thank you's" I have sent your way are totally way below what they should be.

Thank you... .for all that you and everyone on the team do each and every day!

NewWays

That made me feel so good NewWays. Thank you so much. Friends here changed my life, literally. Someone was standing in my shoes when I was standing in yours, and I will never forget how that felt. We all know how dark it can get. It's important that people who are out of the darkness are here reminding friends how much lighter it can be.



LnL

[HopefulDad]

I said this to a close friend:

"My wife was diagnosed by two therapists with a personality disorder.  I've tried living with it and realized I cannot.  There is treatment for it, but it takes an acknowledgement of the PD and a long-term commitment by her to follow that treatment and she has no interest in either.  I'm not saying I'm perfect and that I don't contribute to our problems, but the last therapist compared a PD to alcoholism: "Sure, there may be other issues present in the relationship, but unless the drinking stops those other issues cannot be properly addressed."

At that, the questions starting coming... ."What is a PD?  What are the symptoms?  Why does she think the way she does?  Does it show with the kids?  Does it show with extended family, friends and coworkers?  What is the treatment?  What are the success stories you've read about?"

Staying on point about it being a condition that only she can address also shows that I really do still care about her and want what's best for her, but I cannot make her do anything.  It allows me to stay away from words like, "I'm leaving her because she's unbearable" or worse ("She's such a female dog you have no idea".  It also allows me to be sympathetic, that my wife is suffering inside, that she didn't choose to be this way, but unfortunately I cannot fix her.

My friend walked away from that conversation with compassion for both of us, that there is no bad guy at the source of our breakup.

[birdlady]

In any divorce there are friends that will leave you, friends that will stick by and support you, and friends that just fade away.  It comes with the territory.

In my case, i was pretty open with my trusted  friends and family -- my son and my sister for example.  I was much more guarded with our friends.  He really had no friends of his own, but I've been extremely careful with his family members who wanted to continue a friendship with me.

What surprises me is how many of our friends are supportive of me.  In fact many of them volunteered that they are fed up and feel "burned" by him.  I've been surprised by some of their expressions of support for me and disdain for him at points.  I never asked for that.  I did what I could not to put them in the middle through my words or actions. Give other people credit.  What your ex did to you, your ex may have done to them as well; and when you are separated they are relieved they can express their true feelings about your ex to you.

My best advice is to be very cautious in who you vent to (and we all need to vent at some points).  Take the high road publicly and on social media.  In fact, I've been largely absent from social media to protect my privacy.  Do not "diagnose" or "label"  your ex to others unless they are in that very close circle of your undivided supporters.

Your real friends probably have already got your stbx's number.  You may be pleasantly surprised as was I.  And those who choose to be nasty against you, well they are a loss.  Mourn and move on.  Loss just comes with this territory. 

[Harlequin]

I know it's hard , but there is never any shame in truth and honesty.   Stay honest, and realize that you have lied to protect her from herself for so long, I'm sure your true friends will understand, and perhaps even have compassion for her.   

Who knows with that much truth it might even inside her to finasll get help and admit the issue .

Are you in councilling , your going go thru heaps for a while

[ForeverDad]

I recall one conversation with my lawyer, I was lamenting something she had done that was unreasonable, unfair, outrageous or all of the above, I can't recall, so probably all of the above.

Well, with the typical lawyer's insight he observed, "Well, you married her."   As though it was my fault I got myself into this mess.  I had made my bed and I had to sleep in it?  I replied, "She wasn't that way at first.  It gradually got worse over the years until it got extreme, high maintenance turned into high conflict."

However, I wonder whether a lot of the professionals involved in our cases think that of us, that if we hadn't had a relationship with the misbehaving and uncooperative spouse or parent, then we wouldn't have our overloaded basket of problems that they had to help us resolve.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi ForeverDad, I've had the same conversation, many times, and have given the same response.  It's annoying, though, because it's similar to blaming the victim for being in an abusive r/s.  We can only move forward from where we are standing, and it doesn't help to be reminded that we made some mistake along the way.  BPD is so far under the radar that I suspect very few people realize what they are getting into with a BPD r/s before it happens.  I had never heard of BPD until about 10 years into a turbulent marriage.  Who knew?  LuckyJim

[livednlearned]

Gavin de Becker (Gift of Fear and the guy who created the Mosaic Threat Assessment), says that the first time someone is abusive, you're a victim. The second time (and third, and fourth, and fifth) you're a volunteer.

Sounds like that's what your lawyer (with quite the great bedside manner) was saying to you.

[Harlequin]

@foreverdad.     I think professionals do so, espeally when we are male.  And first advice given is to leave the relationship .  We do believe that we can encourage them to get to councilling,  and I suppose we do need to believe that they do love us, and the wool not been pulled over our eyes all this time.  Perhaps we did, as I know I did keep the silence about her condition from friends and family. Because she considered it a betrayal if I spoke about it.   I found reading up on survivers of emotional abuse , and battered spouse syndrome helps.