Facing a sixth breakup, not sure if I should keep trying (warning: long)

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

There's so much to explain, but I don't want to write a novel.  I guess I have no choice.  I've posted my story on a couple of other relationship boards, and most of the replies have stated my girlfriend shows strong BPD characteristics.  I have never approached her with this belief, but wonder if people can spot signs in my story.  Thus, I am here.  I apologize for the length, and thank anyone who reads this.

I accidentally posted this on the Introduction board, and don't know how to delete it.  Sorry if you see it twice.


We met five years ago.  She was 19, I was 27.  She is now 24, I'm 32.  Right away, when I mention that, people say, "She was YOUNG, ding ding ding!" but I feel it's beyond that.  She acted quite mature, articulate (likes old movies, decent music, well read) and and is quite intelligent.  I was drawn to her.  I thought she was my age and was shocked when I found out she was 19.

I must also mention that I have a 10 year old daughter from a previous relationship.  She was five when my gf and I met.  I have her extended time in the summer, which comes into play later.

We worked at the same business, but never together.  But, we hung out with the work group, and thus became friends.  Most of our correspondence was online (Facebook), and eventually that led to texting, which led to falling for one another.  Oddly, the beginning of our relationship was when she had gotten fed up with her mother (who she was living with) and hopped a flight to Boston to stay with a friend she had met several years earlier on a band's message board.  We talked every day for the month or so she was there, and she returned to live with her mom, and we became a couple.  I was her first real adult relationship, and her first sexual partner.

My gf told me at the outset of our relationship that she wanted to finish her college degree, and move to a big city (I think her sabbatical to Boston helped her feel this).  Obviously this interferes in any long term relationship plans, but at the time it seemed like a casual goal.

Things seemed amazing at the start (infatuation?) and we moved in together four months later (I had been living with my parents and was ready to get out as well).  Issues started sprouting quickly, for instance my daughter spilled a glass of orange juice on the carpet, and my gf became withdrawn immediately, saying she can't live with a child, and maybe she made a mistake.  It passed, but she would constantly talk about her future, wanting to move away and experience the world, etc.

She is a classic Debbie Downer.  She has moments of happiness, but a lot of her time is spent spewing disgust over things she sees on Facebook, life, people, etc.  She constantly talks about the area we live in (midwest) and how uninformed it is.  Black/white thinking.

Most of our time living together was okay.  We fought as any couple would, but it would be volatile, like each of us were trying to "win" the argument.  I'm an only child, which is where I think my stubbornness comes from.  In July of 2011, 10 months after moving in, she started hanging out with work friends (new job for her), staying out very late, it was HER clique and I wasn't part of it.  I was jealous.  Here was the quiet, loving gf I always had all to myself, and now she was going out three nights a week.  She falls for an older guy (mid 30's) who works with her.  It's a one sided infatuation, completely on her end.  He has never known she was interested in him.

We have an argument one night about her constant going out, and she boils over and breaks up with me.  She talks about moving out, everything referring to our relationship is in the past tense, and she keeps going out with her friends, mid 30's guy is among them.  She admits that she has a crush on him.  This breakup lasts about a week, and we eventually reconcile.  She tells me now that her crush on 30's guy was an immature move, as he was nice and would talk to her at work, and she didn't know how to handle the attention.

She never has a working car during this time.  We share my vehicle.  We make it work.

Sex is good, but if something doesn't go wrong (I don't orgasm) she lays in bed and pouts, acting as if someone ran over her dog.  It becomes intimidating to sleep with her, I feel like I must "perform" and orgasm for her, or else she will turn into a black cloud.  She never doesn't want to have sex, and never turns me down.  It loses its spark, but keep doing it regularly.  She never orgasms until around 2013 (three years into our relationship) when we finally find something that works.

We live together until June of 2012.  She decides she wants to finish her bachelor's degree at a university an hour away (she was taking community college classes 10 minutes away) and we don't renew our lease.  She moves to the college town, I don't want to live with her and drive an hour to work and choose move back with my parents as we had accumulated debt.  I lose my job three months later, so I'm glad I didn't get an apartment of my own.  She calls me ONE DAY after I drive a U-Haul in a nervous panic through narrow streets to help move her in (she helps me move, too), saying she has made a mistake and doesn't think she can stay there.  It passes.

Not having a car, I have to drive to see her.  Being unemployed, I do this at least once a week, sometimes more.  We spend weekends together.  She begins to complain that I'm not visiting her enough, not putting in enough effort, and breaks up with me again.  She changes her status to "single on Facebook.  I'm angry, because she isn't having to drive two hours round trip to see me (of course, she says she would have no problem doing this.  Another week of talking, another week of her speaking about us in the past tense, and then another reconciliation.  Another breakup happens around Christmas.  Same reasons.  This one involves her unfriending me on Facebook.  We reconcile a week later.  Yet another one in the spring of 2013.  None of the breakups last long enough for either of us to move on.

Summer 2013 - things are looking up.  She has lost 50 pounds (she was never obese but had meat on her bones).  I have a new (and better paying) job, she finishes her school year and decides to move back into town with her mom, saying she hates the college town she lives in.  We see each other more frequently.  However, in July, she breaks up with me again out of the blue, saying we seem more like friends than gf/bf.  I'm at the end of my rope, and decide not to fight it.  Again, she wants to stay friends.  This time, the breakup lasts over a month, mainly because I don't beg her to reconsider and don't give her opportunities to tell me how it can't work, etc.  We stay friends, and hang out and talk, but with no romance.

August.  She finally gets herself a car (approved for a brand new 2013 Honda).  Huge deal for her.  She talks about it endlessly.  She starts the fall semester at college, now making the commute herself.  We hang out a couple of times, and tease a little romance, but nothing happens.  A week later, I find out she is seeing a guy she has classes with.  Met him, he asked her out a week later, she is sleeping with him and staying over several nights a week.  I am crushed.  The anti-social girl who never gets hit on (according to her) finally had someone do just that.  Not moving slowly.  She says it's serious.  I can't keep talking to her.  I hook up with a girl I know.  SHE is crushed, and calls me, a blubbering mess, saying we need to cut off contact.  We do so for about a week.

I miss her.  I text her.  She answers that she still can't talk to me.  She's still with new guy.  Another week.  I reach out again.  She responds, and we talk (new guy doesn't know) for the next month.  My relationship ends.  She is quite forthcoming with information about new guy to me, saying he has issues in bed (likely stemming from her same intimidating nature she had with me in bed), how he acts like a "boy" and various other things.  But, she stays with him.  I briefly date another girl, and she again blows up and cuts off contact with me.

Two weeks pass.  Again, I reach out.  I guess I'm a masochist.  We begin talking again.  We make plans to hang out.  We sleep together.  She cheats on new guy with me.  For the next month, she dates both of us (triangulation?).  Looking back, I can't believe I put up with it.  In November, she suddenly decides she wants me and only me.  She doesn't want to break up with new guy until the end of the semester to avoid awkwardness (give me a break) but finally does a week later.  She hasn't spoken to him since, and cuts him off when he tries to contact her months later.  He's gone.

We rekindle our relationship.  It feels like a fresh start.  We speak about moving in together again.  She speaks of MARRIAGE.  She speaks of HAVING CHILDREN, two things she has been against since I met her.  She is more engaging with my daughter (she has never treated her cruelly, but has let me known she doesn't like kids) and asks her how she wants her bedroom decorated in our new apartment.  She attends the spring 2014 semester at school, no issues.

She gets a new job.  Her hours are cut.  She's going back to school next month, and financially, we can't afford an apartment.  Her mom breaks the lease on their apartment and gives her 60-day move out notice.  Suddenly, my gf is literally going to be homeless the same week she goes back to school.  Her credit cards are maxed out.  She always has little money at the end of every pay period.  She's struggling financially.

We argued last week about a guy she works with that she can't stop talking about.  I fear he's just like the 30's guy she had a crush on.  Old resentment comes up on my end.  It's a bad argument.

The next day, she is now completely devoted to moving away as soon as she finishes college in December.  She wants to move to New York, wants to go to grad school.  She says there is nothing for her here, and I can't be part of her plans, because I have "a kid."  She now says she doesn't want to live with my daughter.  She now wants to break up again.

And here we are.

This latest episode comes during a high stress time for her.  She needs to find a place to live, has little money, and little resources.  She is determined to get out of town as fast as she can when she is able.  She speaks of moving to New York as her #1 goal in life, suddenly.  It's going to happen.  She is going to move and make her own life.  It's just a shame I can't go with her.  She admits she's selfish and apologizes for putting me through this.

She typically does this in the summer, when I have my daughter more, and thus it interferes with seeing her.  Three months ago, we were talking about moving in together, toured apartments, she even spoke about names for our children.  Then swiftly, she's moving to NYC as soon as she can and doesn't need a relationship.

I feel like I'm on the edge of another reconciliation, but also maybe that this might be the end.  Strangely, I don't feel the overwhelming sadness this time.  I see her issues, her possible BPD, and see what it's like to stay with her.

But I still love her.

Any advice?  Or things that can help me understand her?  Even if we go our separate ways, I want to feel like I did all that I could.  Other boards have told me to just drop her, she's nuts, she's young, you're an idiot for putting up with her, fish in the sea, etc.  I get that.  I want to know WHY.

Thanks.

[4Years5Months]

There's so much to explain, but I don't want to write a novel.  I guess I have no choice.  I've posted my story on a couple of other relationship boards, and most of the replies have stated my girlfriend shows strong BPD characteristics.  I have never approached her with this belief, but wonder if people can spot signs in my story.  Thus, I am here.  I apologize for the length, and thank anyone who reads this.

I accidentally posted this on the Introduction board, and don't know how to delete it.  Sorry if you see it twice.


We met five years ago.  She was 19, I was 27.  She is now 24, I'm 32.  Right away, when I mention that, people say, "She was YOUNG, ding ding ding!" but I feel it's beyond that.  She acted quite mature, articulate (likes old movies, decent music, well read) and and is quite intelligent.  I was drawn to her.  I thought she was my age and was shocked when I found out she was 19.

I must also mention that I have a 10 year old daughter from a previous relationship.  She was five when my gf and I met.  I have her extended time in the summer, which comes into play later.

We worked at the same business, but never together.  But, we hung out with the work group, and thus became friends.  Most of our correspondence was online (Facebook), and eventually that led to texting, which led to falling for one another.  Oddly, the beginning of our relationship was when she had gotten fed up with her mother (who she was living with) and hopped a flight to Boston to stay with a friend she had met several years earlier on a band's message board.  We talked every day for the month or so she was there, and she returned to live with her mom, and we became a couple.  I was her first real adult relationship, and her first sexual partner.

My gf told me at the outset of our relationship that she wanted to finish her college degree, and move to a big city (I think her sabbatical to Boston helped her feel this).  Obviously this interferes in any long term relationship plans, but at the time it seemed like a casual goal.

Things seemed amazing at the start (infatuation?) and we moved in together four months later (I had been living with my parents and was ready to get out as well).  Issues started sprouting quickly, for instance my daughter spilled a glass of orange juice on the carpet, and my gf became withdrawn immediately, saying she can't live with a child, and maybe she made a mistake.  It passed, but she would constantly talk about her future, wanting to move away and experience the world, etc.

She is a classic Debbie Downer.  She has moments of happiness, but a lot of her time is spent spewing disgust over things she sees on Facebook, life, people, etc.  She constantly talks about the area we live in (midwest) and how uninformed it is.  Black/white thinking.

Most of our time living together was okay.  We fought as any couple would, but it would be volatile, like each of us were trying to "win" the argument.  I'm an only child, which is where I think my stubbornness comes from.  In July of 2011, 10 months after moving in, she started hanging out with work friends (new job for her), staying out very late, it was HER clique and I wasn't part of it.  I was jealous.  Here was the quiet, loving gf I always had all to myself, and now she was going out three nights a week.  She falls for an older guy (mid 30's) who works with her.  It's a one sided infatuation, completely on her end.  He has never known she was interested in him.

We have an argument one night about her constant going out, and she boils over and breaks up with me.  She talks about moving out, everything referring to our relationship is in the past tense, and she keeps going out with her friends, mid 30's guy is among them.  She admits that she has a crush on him.  This breakup lasts about a week, and we eventually reconcile.  She tells me now that her crush on 30's guy was an immature move, as he was nice and would talk to her at work, and she didn't know how to handle the attention.

She never has a working car during this time.  We share my vehicle.  We make it work.

Sex is good, but if something doesn't go wrong (I don't orgasm) she lays in bed and pouts, acting as if someone ran over her dog.  It becomes intimidating to sleep with her, I feel like I must "perform" and orgasm for her, or else she will turn into a black cloud.  She never doesn't want to have sex, and never turns me down.  It loses its spark, but keep doing it regularly.  She never orgasms until around 2013 (three years into our relationship) when we finally find something that works.

We live together until June of 2012.  She decides she wants to finish her bachelor's degree at a university an hour away (she was taking community college classes 10 minutes away) and we don't renew our lease.  She moves to the college town, I don't want to live with her and drive an hour to work and choose move back with my parents as we had accumulated debt.  I lose my job three months later, so I'm glad I didn't get an apartment of my own.  She calls me ONE DAY after I drive a U-Haul in a nervous panic through narrow streets to help move her in (she helps me move, too), saying she has made a mistake and doesn't think she can stay there.  It passes.

Not having a car, I have to drive to see her.  Being unemployed, I do this at least once a week, sometimes more.  We spend weekends together.  She begins to complain that I'm not visiting her enough, not putting in enough effort, and breaks up with me again.  She changes her status to "single on Facebook.  I'm angry, because she isn't having to drive two hours round trip to see me (of course, she says she would have no problem doing this.  Another week of talking, another week of her speaking about us in the past tense, and then another reconciliation.  Another breakup happens around Christmas.  Same reasons.  This one involves her unfriending me on Facebook.  We reconcile a week later.  Yet another one in the spring of 2013.  None of the breakups last long enough for either of us to move on.

Summer 2013 - things are looking up.  She has lost 50 pounds (she was never obese but had meat on her bones).  I have a new (and better paying) job, she finishes her school year and decides to move back into town with her mom, saying she hates the college town she lives in.  We see each other more frequently.  However, in July, she breaks up with me again out of the blue, saying we seem more like friends than gf/bf.  I'm at the end of my rope, and decide not to fight it.  Again, she wants to stay friends.  This time, the breakup lasts over a month, mainly because I don't beg her to reconsider and don't give her opportunities to tell me how it can't work, etc.  We stay friends, and hang out and talk, but with no romance.

August.  She finally gets herself a car (approved for a brand new 2013 Honda).  Huge deal for her.  She talks about it endlessly.  She starts the fall semester at college, now making the commute herself.  We hang out a couple of times, and tease a little romance, but nothing happens.  A week later, I find out she is seeing a guy she has classes with.  Met him, he asked her out a week later, she is sleeping with him and staying over several nights a week.  I am crushed.  The anti-social girl who never gets hit on (according to her) finally had someone do just that.  Not moving slowly.  She says it's serious.  I can't keep talking to her.  I hook up with a girl I know.  SHE is crushed, and calls me, a blubbering mess, saying we need to cut off contact.  We do so for about a week.

I miss her.  I text her.  She answers that she still can't talk to me.  She's still with new guy.  Another week.  I reach out again.  She responds, and we talk (new guy doesn't know) for the next month.  My relationship ends.  She is quite forthcoming with information about new guy to me, saying he has issues in bed (likely stemming from her same intimidating nature she had with me in bed), how he acts like a "boy" and various other things.  But, she stays with him.  I briefly date another girl, and she again blows up and cuts off contact with me.

Two weeks pass.  Again, I reach out.  I guess I'm a masochist.  We begin talking again.  We make plans to hang out.  We sleep together.  She cheats on new guy with me.  For the next month, she dates both of us (triangulation?).  Looking back, I can't believe I put up with it.  In November, she suddenly decides she wants me and only me.  She doesn't want to break up with new guy until the end of the semester to avoid awkwardness (give me a break) but finally does a week later.  She hasn't spoken to him since, and cuts him off when he tries to contact her months later.  He's gone.

We rekindle our relationship.  It feels like a fresh start.  We speak about moving in together again.  She speaks of MARRIAGE.  She speaks of HAVING CHILDREN, two things she has been against since I met her.  She is more engaging with my daughter (she has never treated her cruelly, but has let me known she doesn't like kids) and asks her how she wants her bedroom decorated in our new apartment.  She attends the spring 2014 semester at school, no issues.

She gets a new job.  Her hours are cut.  She's going back to school next month, and financially, we can't afford an apartment.  Her mom breaks the lease on their apartment and gives her 60-day move out notice.  Suddenly, my gf is literally going to be homeless the same week she goes back to school.  Her credit cards are maxed out.  She always has little money at the end of every pay period.  She's struggling financially.

We argued last week about a guy she works with that she can't stop talking about.  I fear he's just like the 30's guy she had a crush on.  Old resentment comes up on my end.  It's a bad argument.

The next day, she is now completely devoted to moving away as soon as she finishes college in December.  She wants to move to New York, wants to go to grad school.  She says there is nothing for her here, and I can't be part of her plans, because I have "a kid."  She now says she doesn't want to live with my daughter.  She now wants to break up again.

And here we are.

This latest episode comes during a high stress time for her.  She needs to find a place to live, has little money, and little resources.  She is determined to get out of town as fast as she can when she is able.  She speaks of moving to New York as her #1 goal in life, suddenly.  It's going to happen.  She is going to move and make her own life.  It's just a shame I can't go with her.  She admits she's selfish and apologizes for putting me through this.

She typically does this in the summer, when I have my daughter more, and thus it interferes with seeing her.  Three months ago, we were talking about moving in together, toured apartments, she even spoke about names for our children.  Then swiftly, she's moving to NYC as soon as she can and doesn't need a relationship.

I feel like I'm on the edge of another reconciliation, but also maybe that this might be the end.  Strangely, I don't feel the overwhelming sadness this time.  I see her issues, her possible BPD, and see what it's like to stay with her.

But I still love her.

Any advice?  Or things that can help me understand her?  Even if we go our separate ways, I want to feel like I did all that I could.  Other boards have told me to just drop her, she's nuts, she's young, you're an idiot for putting up with her, fish in the sea, etc.  I get that.  I want to know WHY.

Thanks.

[4Years5Months]

A couple of other points:

Her parents divorced when she was seven.  She has told me a story of they told her in a restaurant, and she cried into the table napkin... .and took it home with her and still has it.

She doesn't speak with her father anymore, and hasn't for seven years.  Her explanation is he would have random women over and flaunt them in front of her, have loud sex, it was very uncomfortable.  She walked out one night and hasn't been back since.

Her parents were young when she was born (late teens) and her mom is in a never ending mid-life crisis.  43, acts like she is 20, goes out every night.  Twice divorced, cheated on her second husband, a wealthy guy she married for his money.  Makes little money now, and blows it all by going out.  Behind on all of her bills, terrible credit.  She's moving out of her apartment in three weeks.  My gf always acknowledges her mom's immaturity, but I see a lot of her behavior in her.

My gf has moved around (back and forth between mom and dad) literally a dozen times in her life.  She has moved four times since I met her.  She's used to not staying in one place for long.  Her middle and high school years were spent at four different schools.  She had little long term friends and became reserved.  Any chance she gets now to hang out with people, she treats as an event.  It also may explain why she wants to move away.

[gtrhr]

I read all of your story and know firsthand it's pretty difficult to be in a situation with so many downs and ups and no stability.  My first "real" relationship that lasted any considerable length of time started in my early twenties and lasted for five years.  I won't go into the details but there were multiple breakups and reconciliations, regarding our religious differences and her lack of tolerance.

It can be hell to go through unless you reach stability.  And you've been through a lot already, especially with her flirtations with other men, and eventually hooking up with at least one of them as you had mentioned.  Whether she technically "cheated" on you or just dropped you like a hot-potato so she could move on and have her fun, it really feels pretty much the same.  It's shocking, infuriating, and can hurt like hell.  Dealing with that situation you yourself can develop PTSD like symptoms.  Been there before and it it's rough.

I don't know if your girl is borderline but it sounds like she exhibits several of the characteristics.

To be honest, if she is not interested in being in your daughters life (even not considering all of the other drama) that is reason to seriously consider not being part of your ex gf's life either.  I know when it comes to women dating men, they put up the electric fence when it comes to their kids.  And you better be all on board with being future super-dad or else. Well, that should work in reverse too when a man has a child to raise.  You have the right to expect that she would be able to treat your daughter as if it were her own.  Someone who truly loves you should be there for you.

Well I get the part that you love her and it's difficult to let go, and that's why even when you do know you made the correct choice, it's easy to recycle back into the r/s.  Been there, done that multiple times.

You know, from the outside looking in, there is a lot wrong with the r/s and it would require some commitment and counseling to work through all of that.  You're not married and don't have kids together... .  To be honest count yourself lucky that you don't.  You can move forward with the counseling approach, or make a CLEAN break.  But it sounds like she's ready (at least she says so) to move on.

Please consider what kind of future you really think you could have with her based on all that has happened.  Well, also it seems like you still have some hope things could work out and that may be one reason things haven't worked out with the other women that you've dated too.  If she is borderline that makes it difficult to totally let go.  No Contact is the way to go if you decided to break up.  It's a tough road too, like fighting an addiction - which these break up/make up relationships really are a lot like.

[4Years5Months]

Thanks for the response.

There are times she has been exactly what I want in a relationship: kind, affectionate, willing to live with me and build a future together.  Then she suddenly goes cold (like recently) and wants to move far away and have a fresh start for only herself.  It's like when things aren't going well, she dreams of something different as the only option, instead of finding ways to accept what she has now.  I mean, in the last week, she said she would stay here for about a year before moving.  Then that became seven months.  Last night she told me she wants to move in December.  I have no idea how she is going to move to NYC with no money saved, but she's clinging to the idea like a golden ticket.

She always has a mature justified explanation for her actions - that makes sense to her, but really... .come on.  She rarely admits she is making an emotional decision that isn't right.  She's always doing the right thing.  Always in control.  The problem is, she is anything but that, especially right now.

In the last year, she has been in love with me, broken up, dating someone else, back together with me, touring apartments, talking about marriage, and now she is wanting to be alone for a while to establish herself.  She has said to me "I wish we could take five years off then get back together.  THEN I will be ready to spend the rest of my life with you."  That, of course, isn't feasible.

I have never needed nor asked her to be a step-parent to my daughter.  I don't need her to become mom when my daughter is over.  But she does speak of her as if she is keeping me from moving with her.  "You have a child, you can't just up and move."  And she's right.  I understand the approach.  It's not vicious, like saying my daughter is a terror that she can't stand.  She's an obstacle.  Now, I can hear all the parents saying ":)on't say that about your kid!" and I get it - but I understand where my gf is coming from.

[gtrhr]

She always has a mature justified explanation for her actions - that makes sense to her, but really... .come on.  She rarely admits she is making an emotional decision that isn't right.  She's always doing the right thing.  Always in control.  The problem is, she is anything but that, especially right now.

In the last year, she has been in love with me, broken up, dating someone else, back together with me, touring apartments, talking about marriage, and now she is wanting to be alone for a while to establish herself.  She has said to me "I wish we could take five years off then get back together.  THEN I will be ready to spend the rest of my life with you."  That, of course, isn't feasible.

I understand completely.  You love the person and she seems the perfect match at those times (that it suits her).  This is the rough part of being with the BPD partner.  They're always changing.  We go along for the ride because we love them and want to believe it when they say they've made a decision... .only to turn it around us and repeat the cycle.  I'm reading some books now to try and understand why they are like this.  I'm pretty sure your partner may be no different in five years even if you had the patience to wait.

Her actions really seem to be showing you she's not together enough to make a long term commitment like you want.  So what are your thoughts about going to see a therapist to help you work through some of these issues?  I know it's really helped me to get out of feeling stuck and make some difficult choices.

[4Years5Months]

Are you speaking of both of us going to therapy, or just me?  I've brought up therapy before to her, and she seems offended that I would even suggest that she needs it.  Yeah.

It's interesting.  The other times we have broken up, I have been devastated.  Last fall, when she dated dumbass student boy, it was the worst period of my life.  I lost 15 pounds (which I could afford to do) and thought about her endlessly.  It was the thought of her spending time with someone else, someone else enjoying her... .awful.

But this time?  I was upset for the first day (she wanted to break up this past Monday).  I spent all day Tuesday at work constantly checking her Facebook to see if she had unfriended me (which still, as I type this, she hasn't, and still lists me as her boyfriend).  Then, at about the 300th time I checked, I looked at her photos, and I just felt... .nothing.  I mean, I still feel a little bit, but it's like I have realized she isn't the one for me.  Do I wish that she would text me and say "I'm really sorry about how I've behaved.  I'm just going through a lot right now, and I want to get to a point where we can move in together and be happy" - sure.  But if she's going to keep doing the whole "I have to move ASAP" nonsense, then eh.  Screw her.

I love her and want her to be happy, but I shouldn't have to be with someone who constantly tells me she is going to do something with her life that completely eliminates me.

She made all of these "goals" before we met.  I think that's fine.  But things change.  You meet someone and fall in love, maybe a life with them is better than the idea of living in the big city that you had when you were 18.  It's like if she doesn't do EXACTLY THAT, she is neglecting herself. 

I should have validated what she was saying, instead of saying what I really felt - that moving to NYC in mere months with no money saved up and no plans is a very dumb move.  Because you know what?  If I had just validated her, said that was great, etc, this would have passed as soon as she figured out her living situation and wasn't broke anymore.

I haven't been able to give her a comfortable option here.  Thus, she believes there is NO HOPE and she must get away.  I would rather her try and see if we can make it work and set a plan.  If she set goals with me as passionately as she has for herself right now, we would be married with three kids.

[gtrhr]

I think it would be worthwhile for you to see a therapist yourself.  They can help you arrive at some decisions and cope with the resulting feelings.  You deserve a lasting peace and stability in a relationship.  And really I think you want to know that she's staying for the right reasons, not because she doesn't currently have the financial means to move to the place she says she wants.  She really is kind of stringing you along with her "together in 5 years plan", and that is more about making herself feel good than behaving like a couple and looking out for your interests as well.

Then, at about the 300th time I checked,

Social media and smartphones have made it so much easier to feed the obsessive addiction a lot of us have had with our BPD partners and exes.

You mentioned validation and I understand your point that you believe you should have validated her desire to go to NY, and instead you expressed your opinions about it being not a very well thought out plan.

Unfortunately, with pwBPD validation can be a pretty one way street.  I would offer this to you: you don't have to be perfect.  Actually I think you owe it to yourself to be able to express what you really feel in an honest and respectful manner.  And you know if she isn't able to handle honesty and respect, and what she gives back is kind of selfish and dismissive of you or the relationship, then you're fighting a losing battle that will make you quite miserable in the long run.

[4Years5Months]

I read https://bpdfamily.com/content/how-borderline-relationship-evolves and it was quite astonishing how many similarities I found.  I mean, listen, if we really want to, we could all find signs in any relationship if we try hard enough, but I'm amazed at how much my girlfriend resembles the article in question.

The vulnerable seducer phase.

I was my gf's first real relationship, so she didn't have any past heartbreaks or bad experiences to go off of.  She didn't seem like she needed "saving" but she DID hate living with her mother, which expedited us moving in together.  I always wondered how much of her wanted to live with me, and how much of it was not wanting to live with her mom.  She did speak about how comfortable she was around me almost immediately - I just thought I was knocking it out of the park in the boyfriend department.  She has never had many friends, so I can't speak to if she was centered on me due to BPD, or centered on me due to being the only person in her world.

The clinger phase

Her mood swings are all over the place.  She will have an elated honeymoon phase with anything new, such as a new job, college classes, or friendship, but eventually she will grow to hate them.  When she got her latest job, she talked about turning it into a career.  Now, it's just a temporary job until she moves and does REAL work.  The best thing in her life is whatever is next.  She can't appreciate what she has now.

She is amazingly clingy.  When we go out shopping, I have to stay with her.  It's not a hard "PLEASE DON'T LEAVE ME" response if I want to walk around Target or somewhere, but eventually, my phone would vibrate with a "where are you?" text.  Before she had a car (first three years of our relationship), whenever I wanted to go somewhere, she would want to go with me - even if it was a 10 minute Taco Bell trip.  I thought it was just because she wanted to get out of our apartment, but it was definitely clingy.  Recently, after our last reconciliation, she had a car, and this wasn't as strong, so maybe that's what it was.

She's always complaining about her head, feet, body hurting.  Constantly asking for massages.  I have never minded doing this, but she's quite vocal about it.

She is very open sexually.  Obviously without going into detail, I was quite surprised (and well, elated) that she seemed to enjoy doing almost anything, and never declined.  But like I said, when sex DIDN'T go well, she would turn into a giant depressed black cloud.


The Hater Phase

This one isn't as strong as the article makes it out to be.  She has never been vengeful, or hateful, or deliberately cruel.  She's immature emotionally, but has never been EVIL.  It is more of me feeling like I always had to please her to keep her from turning into Eeyore.  I feared her depression, not her hate or lashing out.

[4Years5Months]

UPDATE: 

Saturday, I went to dinner and a concert with friends.  She was supposed to go before the breakup last Monday.  Both of them are friends with her on Facebook, and mention posts she has made that I haven't seen on her profile.  She has customized her posts to where I am excluded from seeing them.  I saw her profile on the friend's phone, and nothing she posted would have been suspect to me. 

After the concert, I arrive home, and see that she has removed our relationship from her profile.

The next morning, I texted her (first time in three days), and asked why she hid things from me on her profile.  She said she thought I wouldn't want to see them, which makes little sense.  She also says that she "hid" me to where she can't see my posts.  I ask if she's only friends with me to check-in on me post breakup, and she says no.

Shortly afterward, she deletes me as a friend.  Sorry to make such a big deal out of a social media site, but eh.

We text a couple of other times, she says "you said if we broke up, we couldn't be friends anymore.  I said that yes, I said that, but I wonder how she is doing.  I ask if she's doing okay.  She only says "Not Really" and refuses to elaborate when I ask, saying I don't need to worry about her.  Remember, she's facing having nowhere to live in a few weeks, unless she has found somewhere by now.  This is a sharp contrast from when we were dating, as she would tell me EVERYTHING and every problem she had, like if she was out of eggs or shampoo.  Having her resistant to tell me about her life now is quite odd.

I tell her I'm here if she needs to talk.  She says thanks and that I'm a great person, and she wants me to be happy.  She is strangely distant, taking her time between texts.

I e-mailed her this morning, basically reviewing everything over the last few weeks, because we were seemingly a healthy and happy couple before the sudden breakup.  She texted me that she read it but hasn't had time to respond, but will.  She isn't someone who is constantly busy (and I know she has the day off today) so I wonder if she is intentionally stalling.

That's where we are now.  Thoughts?

[4Years5Months]

I want to add, one of the things I read the most about BPD behavior are the anger and hostility.  She has been mad, pouted, cried and all kinds of negative emotions, but I've never seen her become molten lava angry, throw things, etc.  When they say BPD tantrums are like a child, that's kind of how she is.  Pouts, irritated, in a huff, but not violent.  It makes me hard to discredit her, since she has never been THAT volatile.  She has done enough to make me walk on eggshells, however.

Also, she has been very up front about how she is doing a terrible thing by breaking up with me this time. 

"You haven't done anything wrong"

"I don't know why I am this way"

"I know I'm selfish"

"You deserve someone who appreciates you"

"I want you to be happy"

Is this common with BPD?  She would never admit to being mentally ill or anything, but I'm surprised to see her acknowledging how she is being awful and doesn't know what she wants.

[gtrhr]

I got those same type of lines from my xBPDgf:

"I'm no good for you"

"You're a nice guy"

etc, etc.

She's probably hiding things from you which is why she says them.  She's reluctant to cut all ties and say "you're no longer an option."  But that is something it sounds like you are going to need to do for yourself in order to be happy.

Listen, it is tough for pwBPD to just let go of someone that is also still holding onto them.  But by the same token they are not going to be there for you and give you the relationship you want.  At least that is what I'm hearing in all of your posts.

It's really hard and believe me I understand.  This state of Limbo, and being in constant chase is really really really going to make you miserable.

This is the tough part, and this is why I think getting your own counseling is kind of essential.  You are getting all of the cues that she doesn't want a relationship right now yet you aren't able to fully accept that.  Probably because she says things that you take as "hope" because she's being kind of vague and you think ambiguous.  She seems to be expressing what you take as doubt.  But that isn't going to make the lightbulb go off in her head and throw herself fully into a relationship with you.

The counseling can help you answer what it is about you (and me and everyone else who has stayed in it way too long with a pwBPD) of why do we stick around when the other person is either abusive, or just clearly not that into us.

[4Years5Months]

Well, she may be hiding things, but she has always been big on honesty.  She has always championed how she has never lied to me.  I'm sure that's not true, but I truly think that the absolute last thing she would want to have happen is to be caught in a lie.  It's like she hangs her integrity on it.

We texted about my e-mail late last night, and this morning.  I need to mention that in the e-mail, I told her that I accept her breakup, that I understand a lot of what she feels about us and our future, and that frankly, I can't be with someone who resents the fact that I have a child.  It wasn't an attempt to get her to change her mind. 

She said she hid me on Facebook because it was too hard to see what I was doing, and hid her posts because she thought that I felt the same way.  Given that the posts she hid weren't anything important, I consider that truthful.

She said that she has become too dependent on talking to me all of the time, and that if we keep talking about our lives, it would be just like being in a relationship, and that there are still "too many feelings."  I said that people talk about their lives, relationships or not, and if that is an issue for her, then we should never talk again.

I ask her point blank if she is seeing someone.  She says no, she isn't looking for a relationship right now, her life is so chaotic (she still hasn't made any progress on finding somewhere to live, T-minus two weeks and counting now) but she is hanging out with people from work to distract her from the bad things.  I ask her why I can't be someone to help, and she plainly says I'm one of the bad things - not me personally, but our breakup.  She says, "I'm taking any distraction I can get right now."

I think she was being truthful, but left it open to where if we reconnect down the line and she HAS been in a relationship all this time, she can cover it by saying it happened later.

I tell her I don't want it to be painful to talk to me.  She says she misses me.  I haven't responded.  I don't think that I will.  I think the only reason I e-mailed her and attempted to make contact is our last conversation (before this one) was tense and left kind of open.

I really have been through too much with her.  I see her now as an unstable person to be in a relationship with, who is going to break up with whoever she's with when stress is too high, or too many issues pop up.

She isn't going to move to NYC.  She didn't tell me that, I just know.  She's scared and doesn't know where she is going to live.  If she gets settled somewhere, I expect her to contact me.  Hopefully by then, she will be far from my mind.

[somethingtolose]

I think that's for the best, sounds like you're getting closer to acceptance of reality.

You're describing a pattern that I've been through, and innumerable others. For me, the last phase of stringing me along (until she found another relationship) was very painful. Her mental illness can be hard to accept but it's truly striking how many aspects of your experience mirror my own. It sounds like she is more of the quiet type that internalizes the pain.

One of my biggest mistakes was trying to hold on... .trying to seek closure. When she finally got into the new relationship and finally turned the page, all of sudden for the first time she externalized her pain and anger and it was quite devastating to hear what she was capable of saying in order to get someone out of her life for good (so-called "splitting"... .of course she profusely apologized and said she was all wrong 9 months later).

[4Years5Months]

UPDATE:

Well, she and I have talked a couple of times, mostly by text.

I applied for and accepted a part time job at a place she used to work.  She worked there for about seven months and quit because of the pay and claimed she hated it.  I make good money in my full time job, and the part time one is similar to what I do now, and low stress - so I don't care about the pay.

One of the managers there knows here, and texted her that I had applied (sounds sneaky, but he didn't know we broke up and was wondering why she didn't tell him).  She is mad at ME, and suddenly knows "everyone" there and claims she wanted to work there again, and now I've ruined it.  I think she is being absurd and end the conversation.

A few days later, she texts me and apologizes for being upset.  She lumps it in with all of the drama in her life now, and tells me she is going to move to another apartment with her mom - no longer facing homelessness.  I think she was never in danger, but both she and her mom like inflating even the most minor issues to DEFCON status, so eh.

She still wants to move away, still hates living where she is, still hates her job.  But, (and this is the reason I'm posting this), she's been hanging out with people from work, one of which is a guy I've assumed she has a little crush on.  Now, by that, I mean we all "like" people of the opposite sex, but we don't cross over into imagining something romantic.  I think she has, similar to the guy in his 30's that she was infatuated with three years ago (see my original, long post).

She has hung out with a group from work, he is among that group.  She went to a movie alone with him.  She swears up and down that absolutely nothing romantic has happened between them, and they are just friends.  But she admits that she wouldn't have hung out with him if we were still together, because that is "inappropriate."  But now it's okay, since we are broken up.  I ask her if she is going to date him.  She says she doesn't know.

Now, I should be stomping around and yelling at this point, but I recognize that this may be part of her BPD - the triangulation.  Right before our breakup, she and I had several heated arguments where I brought up my resentment to how she had/has treated me over the years, dating another guy, etc.  I said I walk on eggshells around her.

MISTAKE.  She was a wounded animal, and dumped me.  Now, that isn't right - I shouldn't keep my feelings to myself out of fear of a breakup.  But now I kind of see her thought process.  She argues with me, feels bad, but this new guy is one of those nerdy but handsome never-had-a-girlfriend types that will look at her like a puppy dog, and she loves it.  She talks to me again, and misses me and loves me and wishes it could work ONLY IF SHE WASN'T MOVING, blah blah blah.

Triangulation.  And I don't want to put up with it.

One more thing:  we spoke on the phone and I told her she is amazing and has made my life better, and me a better person.  I understand her stress and pain, and wanted her to feel love, even if we aren't together.  She completely broke down on the phone, crying for over a minute, unable to speak.  Then, she said, "thank you for saying that."  I think that speaks volumes.  Then she spent an inordinate amount of time telling me how she has treated me terribly and I shouldn't want her in my life, really putting herself down.  She rarely does this - I'm shocked.  We've talked a couple of times since then, but little on her end has changed - she's moving away, feels it's her only chance at happiness, etc.

I love her, care about her, but she has a lot of issues and pain.  And doesn't seem to want to work on them.  It's a shame.

[woofhound]

I'm seeing many similarities between your story and mine. I can't even begin to elaborate.

You are in the midst of a very confusing push/pull tug of war, and I know that's not easy. When you're in the thick of it, it all seems very real. All the emotions can blind you, and make you vulnerable. Sometimes it pays off big time to separate yourself from the situation, take a step back, and ask yourself, ":)oes this relationship have anything to do with me being happy? Or, is this relationship all about her?" Food for thought.

A relationship should be about a mutual exchange. I give you love, and, in return, you give me love. It just seems to me like you're putting a lot of effort and getting little in return.

[gtrhr]

Then she spent an inordinate amount of time telling me how she has treated me terribly and I shouldn't want her in my life, really putting herself down.  She rarely does this - I'm shocked.  We've talked a couple of times since then, but little on her end has changed - she's moving away, feels it's her only chance at happiness, etc.

Yes I've experienced this numerous times with my exBPDgf.  A seeming moment of introspection and acknowledgment that they royally f----ed things up without reason.  Wow!  They finally get it.  Now the next logical thing would be to work it out, right?  Get the help they need and move forward as a couple.

Um, no.  Things go back to status-quo before the call ends.  Try bringing it up again and instead of tearful, wistful longing you get the wicked witch of the west.

There is nothing that sticks, and can be used a solid foundation for building something together.  To me that is the essence of my past relationship with the pwBPD.

[woofhound]

Then she spent an inordinate amount of time telling me how she has treated me terribly and I shouldn't want her in my life, really putting herself down.  She rarely does this - I'm shocked.  We've talked a couple of times since then, but little on her end has changed - she's moving away, feels it's her only chance at happiness, etc.

Yes I've experienced this numerous times with my exBPDgf.  A seeming moment of introspection and acknowledgment that they royally f----ed things up without reason.  Wow!  They finally get it.  Now the next logical thing would be to work it out, right?  Get the help they need and move forward as a couple.

Um, no.  Things go back to status-quo before the call ends.  Try bringing it up again and instead of tearful, wistful longing you get the wicked witch of the west.

There is nothing that sticks, and can be used a solid foundation for building something together.  To me that is the essence of my past relationship with the pwBPD.

Same here. My ex admitted to me that she had difficulty "being intimate with anyone" and posted on Facebook "I have intimacy issues, and i'm sorry to everyone I've hurt with those issues." At that point I thought things would change. She even said that she was going to go to counseling. She never did. I knew somewhere inside myself that she wouldn't too. She rarely followed through with anything let alone diving head first into her psyche to discover why she keeps finding herself friendless... .

[4Years5Months]

I've come to the realization that it would never be secure with her.  After last fall, both of us dating other people, both hating that the other was with someone else, we got back together and it seemed like a fresh start, like a reset button.  Things were great... .up until the end of July.  If she can STILL find a way to break up, then she always can, even if I had a billion dollars.  Now, I know things are NEVER safe, and that she can STILL find the feelings to warrant breaking up with me.

We had an argument (as mentioned in my first post) where I brought up many resentful things I was still holding onto, how I can't enjoy sex or time with her because I feel like I have to "perform" and please her, and can't just relax and be natural.  The next day, all of those feelings on her end had bubbled up, like she was reacting by creating chaos of her own.  Then she goes out with this new guy (seemingly platonically, but he validates her).  All as a reaction to me pointing out her flaws.

If that argument never happened, she wouldn't have broken up with me.  Now, do I regret getting mad at her and telling her those things?  Not really.  I shouldn't have to walk on eggshells and risk her breaking up with me when I point out her negatives.  She has extremely thick skin, and reacts by bringing up the same old excuses to get back at me.  I don't think she is sitting there plotting how to do it, but subconsciously her brain reacts that way.

Again, she isn't a malicous, evil person.  But she is fragile, and hides a lot of pain, I think.  I think she would benefit extremely from counseling, but that would be formally admitting she has a problem.  She can tell me she feels like crap for treating me wrong, but there's something underlining it all that says "Yeah, I feel bad, but I'm not a bad PERSON."  She IS a bad person and needs help, but wouldn't admit it enough to take that step.

[4Years5Months]

UPDATE:

We slept together.  I'll just get that out of the way.

She told me the guy at her work revealed he has feelings for her (YOU DON'T SAY) and that she likes him, too, but she let it be known to him that she is still in love with me and wants to "hang out" with me.  She says she isn't going to jump right into a relationship with him, but it has "been discussed" - whatever that means.  She said she has too much going on right now (moving, school, work, wanting to move to NYC in five months) to enter into a relationship with anyone.  But, she says that she and this guy share similar goals (he has talked about wanting to live in NYC, too!) and that it COULD work out with him, unlike me.  She says she hasn't done ANYTHING intimate with him.

I translated all of that into:  This guy has been giving me attention at work, doting on me, saying nice things, like a good puppy dog, and I like that.  But I don't know if I would want to be with him, so I'm going to keep YOU on the hook, too.

This is BPD triangulation at its finest, isn't it?  This guy is a nerdy young guy like the guy she dated last fall, and based on what she told me, hasn't had much romance.  Thus, a pretty girl like her is going to get that puppy attention, and well, she melts when any guy who isn't repulsive talks to her, and... .

And thus, she asked me to come over last week.  In full view of her mom and sister (who both love me), we cuddled on the couch, watched TV, and then slept together that night.  I stayed over.  She began sobbing uncontrollably during sex, so much we had to stop for a while.  She repeatedly reminded me that we were broken up, but how she really wished we could be together, how it would work out wonderfully... .if only I didn't have a kid.

She is moving into a new apartment within the same complex with her mom today, and for whatever reason, I offered to help, even though I'm working.  We ended up arguing about what time I was supposed to show up (of course, I misunderstood HER), and she told me not to come.  That's fine, I didn't really want to anyway - but that's the codependent in me, seeing her problems (and hearing about them over and over and over) and wanting to step in and help.  I shouldn't do that, especially after everything she has done.

[4Years5Months]

I need to add we didn't have sex in front of her mom and sister, ha.