Finally - contact, but now what?

[suchsadness]

Well - here I am again.  Some of you know of my journey and that I have been NC with my BPD dd36 since the beginning of March.  I had accepted that and the last contact I had I told her I loved her and am here when she is ready.  Well... .the day came that she was ready - she needed something.  Last week I got an email from her simply asking me for the information about Lutheran Social Services that I had given her quite a while ago to check into some local services in her area (she is across country in another state).  I sent her the information and said "Hope this helps" and told her I think about her and her two boys every day.  The next thing I know she is on the phone crying saying she was kicked out of the place she was staying and is now on the streets again.  She has basically been homeless for 3 years going from friend to friend... .which never works out.  The only time her ex lets her have her boys overnight is when she is at the place for an extended time and I don't blame him. 

So - I made the mistake of asking her if she wanted me to come out there.  I haven't seen her or my 2 grandsons for 2 years.  She said yes - and then I took my sister out with me who is like a second mom to her.  She has been involving my sister and her daughter for a long time in this web of dysfunction.  I knew it would not go well if I went alone.  Together we made some calls to the local community resources and did a few things to help her get a plan.  I offered to pay for a week to week lodging place, we found a women's development center that helps homeless women but she needs something verifying that she is homeless.  That meant staying at the homeless shelter for 72 hours and attending 3 of their classes.  Before booking a flight - I had told her I could stay until Saturday (we flew out on Tuesday).  By Saturday there was nothing more I/we could do at that point and she needed to follow through with things.  The reason I had to leave on Saturday was that my family (siblings and 85 year old mother) had a trip planned, one that we do annually the last few years.  I went on the trip and got back yesterday.  Now my dd36 is calling me and giving me the business because I left her to go on this trip and I should not have left her when she was not OK.  She said she went to the homeless shelter for orientation (well she was suppose to stay there for 72 hours not just go in for a class and leave) and then all her stuff was stolen out of her vehicle.  When I started asking a few questions about the break-in she said "don't worry about it".  She lies all the time - so I am very suspicious that this is not the truth.  In the end, she said her solution is for me to set her up in an apartment while she goes to school... .and pay for all of it. 

While we were there - her ex and her got into huge fights about letting the boys see us.  Her ex wanted to have a private conversation with us.  He did eventually let us see the boys but both him and my dd36 tried very hard to put me in the middle of all of their problems.  He said she has 3 warrants out for her arrest.  Today my dd36 said that he is going to send the cops to her work place (she has a minimal job and earns only about $300 every 2 weeks) to arrest her.  My dd said she is just going to just go turn herself in and spend 30 days in jail and then after that... .f" it!

I realize that there is nothing more I can do and that in my dd's eyes I abandoned her in her time of need, but I'm wondering if anyone has any insight into what next?  I was trying to tell her if she gets the proof she is homeless that I would help her (again in a weekly rental place - but she is refusing to even consider that) so that she could apply at the Women's Development Center.  Thoughts anyone?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

Does she use e-mail, suchsadness?

I have found it the best way to communicate when things are difficult as it slows everything down and gives everyone's emotions time to settle before replying.

I think I would consider carefully what you are prepared to do and put it in a SET format.

First of all you could tell her that you are sorry you had to leave and validate that she may have felt abandoned, then tell her how glad you are to be in touch again and that you want to support her then the truth bit-what you are actually able to do?

I would also strongly resist being put in the middle and tell them both clearly that they need to address things directly with each other.

It sounds terribly difficult.

How do you feel about being back in touch?

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Suchsadness,

This sounds so painful and hard!  I'm glad you're back in contact, but sorry it is on such difficult terms.  What a disappointment to see her homeless. It sounds to me like you did everything you could to set her up for success without compromising your own limits.  Really, that's all anyone can do, right?  I think you did great!

Now my dd36 is calling me and giving me the business because I left her to go on this trip and I should not have left her when she was not OK. 

Do I detect a bit of guilt that you left her crisis to follow through with your long-awaited vacation plans?  You told her you could only stay until Saturday before you visited.  I think you did a great job of setting your limits ahead of time.  My DD17 says this same type of thing to me whenever I have pre-arranged plans that interfere with her crisis of the day. "Oh, sure!  It's always ALL about YOU!  I'm dealing with __(insert random crisis)___ and you're just going to leave me to go eat some dumb lunch with your friend.  FINE!  You don't care about me!"   

I know she feels abandoned and invalidated whenever my plans interfere with her neediness, but when I give up MY pre-planned time for her crisis, I wind up feeling resentful.  I try not to let the guilt in, but it's hard not to sometimes.

Hang in there!  You are not alone.

[jellibeans]

dear suchsadness

I think you really did do a lot for your dd. It is too bad she has not followed through with staying at the shelter for 72 hours. I would not feel guilty for going on your trip and I would just try not to be drawn into defending yourself and your actions.

Where are things now? Is she still homeless? Has she called? Do you think you might have done too much for her? Is she still looking to you to solve all her problems? Does the ex paid for child support?

I think you said it well... .I would encourage her to get the proof she needs so she can find a place to live.

Although things are very unsettled for your dd I am sure there is some relief that she contacted you and you are at least involved on a small level. I hope things turn around for you all.

[pessim-optimist]

Hello suchsadness,

I am happy that you have had contact again, and re-stablished a connection! It may look like a failed attempt to you, but I think you are looking at it from the distorted angle of BPD, and a bit of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt)... .

We rarely get the approval or appreciation for a job well done from our kids. Like the other posters, I think you did a very good job!

As to "now what?" - I'd keep reaching out to her, validating her, helping with what you can AND really want to. The rest is up to her... .

Have you had a chance to read the book Loving Someone w/BPD? It is full of practical advice on how to handle the many crisies and how to best support our loved one through them.

[suchsadness]

Thanks everyone for your replies... .I appreciate it.

Lever - yes she does use email but more texting than email.  Email is the way she initially re-established contact with me and like my dh said, it was a way to open the door by asking me for the number of a resource we had talked about and also a way for her to let me know she was looking for help again.  That was ok with me as I was very glad to hear from her.  My dh says she only contacts me when she needs something - which is true.  This time I felt better about the way she asked for help, she actually said "yes please come" instead of trying to make me feel obligated through guilt.  I can say that I am not feeling guilty about any of this or the way I handled things so far.  You have a great suggestion about knowing what I can/will do for her and using SET to communicate with her.  Thanks for your help. 

HealingSpirit - thanks for responding.  My dd also uses "It's all about you" to trigger a response from me.  I don't fall for that anymore and she hasn't used it in quite a while.  You asked if I'm feeling guilty from the statement about leaving her in her time of need.  That is what she said to me "You left when I wasn't OK".  And I don't feel guilty about leaving at all but she is trying hard to make me feel that way.  She knew exactly what the trip plans were and when we left the rest was up to her but now she is twisting things to try to make me feel like there was more I could do.  When I asked what I would be doing if I was still there - she said setting me up in an apartment!

pessim-optimist - yes, I am very happy there is contact again as well.  There is a LOT less rage and anxiety at this point and hopefully the no contact (which I did not even try to contact her because I said I would respect her request for NC) made her realize that she is isolating herself by doing the NC.  As far as FOG and failed attempt, I really don't think I'm feeling that way at all and feel like I have made some very good progress over the past few years with the help of this board and my T.  I think I will check into that book - I have a few other books that have been helpful as well... .Stop Walking on Eggshells, I don't have to make everything better, and Overcoming BPD. 

jellibeans - yes she is still homeless.  When she called 2 nights ago she was trying to make me feel bad and I wouldn't/didn't get defensive or argue and she finally said "Have a good life... .and I mean it".  This is usually the way she goes no contact, but the other times is was "Go f" yourself" "You are dead to me" ":)on't contact me", etc.  So this was pretty mild.  I didn't react and the next day she called and told me more drama that was happening and that she was going to go turn herself in because there is a warrant out for her arrest.  Later she texted and said she even failed at that because they wouldn't put her in jail, she needed to set a court date.  Like I said, she lies so much that I am not even sure if that is true or not... .who knows!  As far as doing too much for her here is what I did:  Paid for her copies of her sons birth certificates, Paid for a box at the UPS store for 3 months, Filled her vehicle with gas, Made phone calls to local resources, Drove her down to the shelter and sat in on a discussion with the intake staff.  I offered to pay for a few weeks of lodging at the pay by the week motel but she refused to go there.  So no I don't feel I did too much - but recognize that she is dependent on others to initiate things and would sit back and let everyone else take care of her if they would.  Maybe this was too much, I guess I don't know?

[madmom]

Suchsadness--- I am so impressed with the way you did handle and are handling all of this.  You are an inspiration to me as I struggle with my own diagnosed adult daughter.  Thank you for sharing your story

[lever.]

I think you handled it well, suchsadness and did just enough to set her on her feet if she had followed through.

I hope you are able to build something positive from the reconnection.

[suchsadness]

Thanks Lever and tr   

tr, I can honestly say that my reading on this site and hearing other parents' situations has helped me immensely and I think about how they handled things as I am facing the same or very similar issues. 

Well... .very interesting "reconnection" with my dd.  She called the day after telling me to have a good life and said she went to the homeless shelter and parked about a mile away (I have a really hard time believing she actually walked that far!) and when she came out the next day all her stuff was stolen.  She didn't say anything about a broken window.  So later when I asked if they broke a window or if it was unlocked... .she said "just forget about it".  Then after our conversation she told others in our family that her window was broken.  Doesn't sound right to me, along with the rest of this story.  She was saying she went to the shelter for 3 nights and got the letter, but when I talked to her on the phone each night it was later in the evening and I know (because I sat in on the intake information) that there was a 6:00 curfew at the shelter and it was always later than that when she said she was driving down to the shelter.  Now today she said when she came out someone stole 2 of her tires, the brake rotors and brake pads, now she doesn't have a car.  This whole situation is just getting worse and I know eventually it will all come back on me.  I did say that I would help her pay to repair her car and get it operating... .and if this story is truly true, I would do that.  Sometimes when I get lied to by my daughters I call their bluff and offer to pay, then all of a sudden the problems don't exist anymore!

My sister had called our state nursing board (we know the director personally) and found out that my dd could "test out" for the Certified Nursing Assistant (CNA) program in our state for $120 and then my dd could transfer her license to her home state. She used to be a paramedic and is very knowledgeable in the medical field.  In her home state it would take a 6 week course and between $600 and $2500 to get her license.  I offered to fly her back home and pay for her test, and she seemed excited about the opportunity.  However, she is homeless and I am wondering if it was a way to be somewhere other than on the streets for a short time as she waits to possibly move into a place with a friend. So when she told me about all this shelter/car issues her last statement was "and the CNA/flights ain't happening".  So now I'm wondering if all of this was just her way of backing out of the offer to help.

I'm getting exhausted... .but am feeling good about not breaking down and fixing things for her.  My sister said today "It sure was easier when she wasn't talking to you!"  The energy she has for drama is amazing - I sure wish she could direct some of the energy toward finding a job :-(

[HealingSpirit]

Dear suchsadness,

Oh boy, do I understand how HARD it is to want to trust your DD, and to know you can't. 

I'm getting exhausted... .but am feeling good about not breaking down and fixing things for her.  My sister said today "It sure was easier when she wasn't talking to you!"  The energy she has for drama is amazing - I sure wish she could direct some of the energy toward finding a job :-(   

Yes, I know what you mean about this too!  It IS exhausting.  My BPDD's penchant for drama is for me the most challenging part of the disorder.  It's so hard to sit back and watch her make choices that worsen or contribute to the drama in her life.  The only thing that gets me through my own anguish is to keep telling myself, "It's HER life.  It's HER life."   I agree, if they could just channel that drama-energy towards ANYTHING productive, they would out-perform everyone else on the planet .  -sigh-

I do hope your DD eventually chooses to stay in the shelter for 72 hours so she can get back on her feet.  We're here for YOU in the meantime.

[pessim-optimist]

I'm getting exhausted... .but am feeling good about not breaking down and fixing things for her.  My sister said today "It sure was easier when she wasn't talking to you!"  The energy she has for drama is amazing - I sure wish she could direct some of the energy toward finding a job :-(

I hear you, I've been there... .

After the first NC with my step-daughter, I was aware of her BPD and how the illness was affecting her, yet I still got emotionally involved (and exhausted) in her dramas even though I knew that a lot of her reality was just that - her reality.

After some more time and another cycle of NC, it is much easier to not only see what is happening, but also keep a safe distance emotionally. 

Helping out in what you can/want to is good. If she can take advantage of that, good, if she won't - it's her choice, her life - you offered.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[suchsadness]

Well - I called my dd36's bluff about her car being vandalized and needing brakes and tires!  I finally called a towing service in her city (she told me they wouldn't take credit card payments on the phone) and asked them if we could work out a payment with me to tow my daughter's car.  So I texted her and said they could tow it this morning and I was able to work with the guy to put it on my credit card.  Miraculously - her friend towed it, and this morning had tires on it and the brakes fixed.  Now she is saying he will take whatever payment I can afford... .I said I need to see a detailed receipt for the parts first.  We will see what she comes up with.  Like I said, if this much energy can go into trying to scam me wouldn't she be so much better off doing an honest days work to get her money.  It's so sad, she is so highly intelligent and the lies she comes up with are so detailed and could be real.  It's so hard for me because I am ALWAYS doubting everything she tells me and I am the one who feels like I'm so confused, but things just didn't add up!  Like I said, I'm sure she never even went to the shelter where this supposedly happened... .ugh   

[suchsadness]

It's been a very interesting few days.  My dd36 flew in on Friday.  My dh refused to let her stay at our house. So I made arrangements with my sister for her to stay out at her house. My dd is perfectly fine with staying there as she feels my sister is her second mother, and of course most of the time her best mother! My DH has very strong feelings about my DD as he will not tolerate her abuse to me and her treatment of him. He is hanging on to his feelings about her and all that she has put us through, especially withholding the grandchildren from us. I can't say I blame him, and it has actually turned out for the best that she stay at my sisters to keep the tension low during her visit here. She is going to test for her CNA test on Tuesday and she appears to be interested enough to be studying and is putting some effort into it. I am really glad to see that and hope and pray that she will pass her test and get her certification. That is at least one step in her becoming more independent when she goes back home. 

It was very interesting to see that she had the suitcase I left with her when my sister and I visited her a few weeks ago, because she had told us that she lost everything she owns when she went to the homeless shelter and someone broke into her car. So that whole story was, as I suspected, a lie and an effort to to get some cash from me. I think she is still going to try to get cash from me when she leaves to go back home. I need to stay strong and not fall into her game of cons... .help!  I know that we will probably have some huge conflict when she is getting ready to leave on Sunday. I guess all I can do is be prepared and try to validate her without enabling her... .easier said than done though!

[HealingSpirit]

It was very interesting to see that she had the suitcase I left with her when my sister and I visited her a few weeks ago, because she had told us that she lost everything she owns when she went to the homeless shelter and someone broke into her car. So that whole story was, as I suspected, a lie and an effort to to get some cash from me. I think she is still going to try to get cash from me when she leaves to go back home. I need to stay strong and not fall into her game of cons... .help! 

I'm so glad it was a lie!  Things weren't as bad as she made them out to be.  Yes, I'd still be mad at her for lying---again---and putting you through all that heartache.  But now you know this is her game, and you don't have to play.  I was just reading "Loving Someone with BPD" last night and Manning described a man who brought his wife roses and helped out with cooking and housework after she attempted suicide.  He felt guilty and wanted to ease his guilt & help her feel better.  But after things got back to normal, he tapered off helping.  Then she attempted suicide again, a few more times.  Each time, he gave her flowers and became helpful again.  His guilt was directing him to unknowingly reinforce her suicidal behavior.  When his T pointed this out to him, he stopped, and she never attempted suicide again.

What is it that prevents you from staying strong?  Is it guilt?  Fear?   Chapter 11 is entirely devoted to the subject of managing our own intense emotions.

I know that we will probably have some huge conflict when she is getting ready to leave on Sunday. I guess all I can do is be prepared and try to validate her without enabling her... .easier said than done though!

I'm with you!  Definitely easier said than done.  Let us know how it goes.  Keeping my fingers crossed that she passes the CNA test.  It sounds like she could use a little success after the fix she's put herself in.  So could you!

Hang in there! 

[suchsadness]

Well... .she passed her CNA tests (written and skills) with flying colors.  She is so smart and has so much medical knowledge, it's just sad to see her waste her skills and talent.  She also was into photography and has taken some pictures for her cousin who helped her study for her tests - they are just beautiful.  Again - so much talent... .  :'(.  Now she has to have at least 8 hours of work here in our state in order to transfer her certification to her state.  That means that she has to find a job for a short time here.  I have helped her with her resume and there are several job openings in our area so I'm hoping that she will be able to get her required hours soon. 

I have also been told of several more of her problems (true or not?) that have come up in the last few days.  She told me and my sister that her car was towed away and that this is a scam in her city where you can only pay cash to get the car back.  ?   She told me the lady she was working for "blew her knee out" so she doesn't have any work when she returns.  And she said the place she had arranged to stay has fallen through.  So - I am going to hang on to the hope that she will actually go apply for the homeless program that required her to get a letter from the homeless shelter - her 72 hour stay.  She said she did (I just don't believe it) and the letter is "in the car" that she says was now towed.  YIKES.

It is really hard to see her so desperate and dysfunctional.  She missed her flight yesterday since she didn't have the required work hours, so she will be staying around until she can get what she needs to get her certificate in her home state.  That means I will be willing to buy her another airline ticket home, and will pay the state fees to transfer her license.  Beyond that... .I am not sure there is anything I can/should do for her until she is helping herself.  My sister and I have also committed to helping her with her first month rent/deposit once she secures a CNA job in her state.  I am still going to go buy the book "Loving Someone with BPD".  My sister is believing all the things my dd is telling us and has so much sympathy for her that I can see she would totally enable her in this situation, which is only going to hurt her more! 

[HealingSpirit]

Well... .she passed her CNA tests (written and skills) with flying colors.  She is so smart and has so much medical knowledge, it's just sad to see her waste her skills and talent.

That is great news! One thing at a time.  Baby steps, baby steps.  I know how disappointed you feel that she has so much raw talent and intelligence, yet she is barely functioning.  My DD17 is one of the most brilliant artists I have ever seen, but she would rather quit college and move in with her BF halfway across the country than finish college and get her art degree. -sigh-  I pray your DD and mine both figure out more of their potential soon.

It is really hard to see her so desperate and dysfunctional.  She missed her flight yesterday since she didn't have the required work hours, so she will be staying around until she can get what she needs to get her certificate in her home state.  That means I will be willing to buy her another airline ticket home, and will pay the state fees to transfer her license.  Beyond that... .I am not sure there is anything I can/should do for her until she is helping herself. 

Your situation is so hard!  It's good to see you sound very clear about your limits.  This type of help sounds reasonable to me.  It sounds like you are not enabling her, just giving her a lift to get where she needs to go.  I'm impressed.  It is really hard to find the right balance of help vs. enabling. 

My sister and I have also committed to helping her with her first month rent/deposit once she secures a CNA job in her state.  I am still going to go buy the book "Loving Someone with BPD".  My sister is believing all the things my dd is telling us and has so much sympathy for her that I can see she would totally enable her in this situation, which is only going to hurt her more! 

It's wonderful that your sister is willing to take such an active role in helping your DD.  But can you have a heart-to-heart discussion with her about help versus enabling so you and your sister both stay on the same page in helping your DD?  I know how tricky this is, as my own DH sometimes says "yes" to our DD after I have already said "no" to her.  In the grand scheme of things, having your sister's help (even though she enables sometimes) may still be more valuable to you and your DD than not having your sister's support.  Only you can weigh the pros and cons and risks to your relationship. 

I wish this were easier!  You sound like you're doing a great job maintaining your limits and clarity about what you will do and what you won't.  Good job!

[pessim-optimist]

I am happy for your dd and her passing the test!

I wonder if you could get her the required hours quicker if you call around and if there is any place that would need her to fill in for someone else for a shift or two, and would take her for just that... .Just an idea (I know it's a bit crazy, but stranger things have happened).

The "Loving Someone w/BPD" book has really good suggestions on how to help. One of the ways is to ask them open-ended questions while letting them solve their own problems, and only offering advice when they are specifically asking for it, or say yes, when you ask if they want help/advice... .

What do you think is your dd's goal with telling you these stories? Get money from you, or be able to stay longer in your state?

[suchsadness]

Thanks for your input and support pessim-optimist and healingspirit 

As far as the lies/stories... .I believe she is doing it to get money/cash from me.  She has said she owes people money so I think she is desperate to pay them back.  I keep saying I can pay for things using my credit card - but I am not going to give her or anyone cash.  When it comes down to using my card and talking to companies on the phone, she backs down and says it is taken care of.  So then I assume it was all a lie when I'm willing to help but all of a sudden she doesn't need help when I can fix it with a credit card.  Sad!

We went out and delivered her resume to several facilities advertising CNA jobs yesterday.  She actually had an interview on the spot when she delivered it to one place.  She was really excited and proud.  Hopefully it will work out there, as it was a nice assisted living facility and she liked the nurses she interviewed with.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed and praying for her that it happens soon... .she us really missing her boys and they are going to have their first day of school without her there.  She is feeling bad about that   :'(

[jellibeans]

suchsadness

Such good news for your dd... .getting a job goes a long way in helping our kids feel good about themselves.

I hope she continues to do good and gets work soon. Maybe your dd can do something else to celebrate the the start of school... .here they clebrate the first 100 days of school... .that might be the half way point or something like that... .maybe she could get a cake and celebrate that?

[suchsadness]

Ok... .I knew things were going too smoothly! I just got 6 text messages from her, raging about how my sister and I have made things worse for her and now she has nothing!  She's mad that I won't just rent her an apartment in my name.  My sister said she probably called an apartment complex to see if she could rent and found out she needs references, credit check etc.  She had sent me and my sister a link for a rental property yesterday and my sister told her that she has to start by contacting places.  My sister said she probably called and was told things she doesn't want to hear.  She is saying we have forced her to stay here and do what we want her to do, dangling promises in front of her face.  Of course she doesn't want to take responsibility for making the final decisions about options she was offered! She is just absolutely resisting the idea of this women's center help/program too.  Soo, guess I will take a break from her and her problems... .at least for today.

[jellibeans]

suchsadness

I think that is a good plan... .take a break and see if she can work things out herself. It seems she has done this in the past so I think stepping back is a good plan. Give her time to calm down. Hopefully she finds a solution to her problems.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders