Denying visitation

[Thunderstruck]

DH has a court order for visitation with SD9 but only for the summer (come school time there will be no order in place). We are in the process of getting a permanent order in place but are doing a custody eval first.

uBPDbm made a threat that she is going to deny visitation tomorrow. If she does this, what course of action do we take? What have you guys found helpful?

[ForeverDad]

Well, if an order is in place, then the order is enforceable, though within limits.  Here's how it went with me:  Say my ex said she wouldn't show up, as has happened in your case.  I would still go to the exchange location and wait since that is what the order says to do.  In my area the exchange window was a half hour.  And I made sure I always carried a copy of the current order with me, in case ever needed.  Often the huge threat turned out to be an entitled retaliatory bluff.  If she still didn't appear by the time the exchange window had ended, I would call the police, an officer would come, they would look at the order, they would call her and see what she had to say and eventually make a report that would be available a few days later.  You could use the report to give added weight and documentation to your case.  Back to the ongoing police incident, they would ask whichever parent was declining to allow visitation to 'resolve' the immediate incident by doing the exchange and go to court later to settle the core issue.  My police never forced an exchange.  Their sole goal was to resolve the immediate incident, if possible.  Unless the order indicated they were to enforce it, they didn't.

If the order expires, then whoever doesn't have possession is up a creek without a paddle until back in court to get another order.  That happened to me in the early days of separation, the initial protection order expired and I had to file for divorce and wait for the initial hearing, in all over 3 months of no father-child contact.  I recall calling the police in the area where she lived.  They stated they would not accompany me to avoid an incident if I went to see my son.  But... .if I did go and she called them then I was told they would rush to respond.  So, probably arrest versus no visit.  Since I didn't want to get arrested for whatever false allegations, I didn't go and had to wait for court to find time on the docket for a hearing and a new order.  And no, the court was not peeved with her blocking access.  The magistrate just said, "I'll fix that" and made a new order nearly identical to the last one.  I was blocked for some 3 months, I was given alternate weekends again and my ex got away with her short term blocking.

That's my experience, it may be different elsewhere.

So my suggestion is to go to the exchange location anyway, wait and see whether she complies with the exchange.  If she doesn't show, call the police and follow the officer's instructions.  Maybe the officer can get the exchange to happen, maybe not, but in either case ask for a report so you can have it included as part of your documentation of the obstruction and noncompliance.

[livednlearned]

I hope it was just bluffing. 

In terms of physically dealing with the problem, it's hard to do anything. In a lot of states, police won't enforce a civil order. They will do well-child checks though. Meaning, they will show up at biomom's house and check to make sure that the kids are ok. It's not a great idea to have cops show up, though. It can be psychologically scarring for them (my PC had to quote the research on this for N/BPDxh, who threatened to send law enforcement after me for "abducting" S13.

Dealing with this legally, you would keep any documentation and then file a motion for contempt. In family courts, motion for contempts get treated a little like parking tickets, but if you have a good judge, you can use them to change custody and visitation.

My ex, even during a pretty severe psychotic episode, threatened he would never return S13 and freaked the living daylights out of me (100+ messages all night long, slurred speech on voicemails), but then dropped S13 off like clockwork the next day promptly at the exchange time. Like nothing happened.

It was a steep learning curve to learn that there wasn't anything police could do. But it did help me realize that N/BPDx bluffs about this stuff.

It's different though for each BPD sufferer. N/BPDx had a hard time taking care of a child, so deep down, I don't think he wanted S13 there with him. It might be a different situation with biomom.

[projectBmode]

So, is the only real penalty for not complying with a court order a change in custody (and that only happens I'm guessing if non compliance is such a regular thing)?

Is there no smaller penalty leading up to this ultimate penalty? Does that mean xBPD can get away with this once in awhile if they feel like it?

[ForeverDad]

Contempt of Court is what you file, not for threatened noncompliance, but after it happens.  The stated penalties are quite severe, but in nearly every case it take a time or two times before the judge realizes admonitions and warnings aren't working.  As has been remarked here, contempts are one step above parking tickets, it takes a few to get action.  Judges are reluctant to pout a parent in jail or order a mother to fay fines or even the other parent's legal fees.  One idea I've heard mentioned here is to request something that won't make it seem you're the winner, file asking for any fines to be paid into the children's education fund or something similar.  That way, the children win, though of course a disordered obstructive parent won't see it that way, but the judge might, eventually.

[livednlearned]

Contempt of Court is what you file, not for threatened noncompliance, but after it happens.  The stated penalties are quite severe, but in nearly every case it take a time or two times before the judge realizes admonitions and warnings aren't working.  As has been remarked here, contempts are one step above parking tickets, it takes a few to get action.  Judges are reluctant to pout a parent in jail or order a mother to fay fines or even the other parent's legal fees.  One idea I've heard mentioned here is to request something that won't make it seem you're the winner, file asking for any fines to be paid into the children's education fund or something similar.  That way, the children win, though of course a disordered obstructive parent won't see it that way, but the judge might, eventually.

ProjectBMode, is your custody case filed in Canada or the UK? Each state in the US, and each country, handles these things different. There are a lot of similarities between the three countries, but the variations can be significant.

Motions for contempt can be treated like parking tickets here, but it might be different where you are (or wherever the case is filed).

[Thunderstruck]

Contempt of Court is what you file, not for threatened noncompliance, but after it happens.  The stated penalties are quite severe, but in nearly every case it take a time or two times before the judge realizes admonitions and warnings aren't working.  As has been remarked here, contempts are one step above parking tickets, it takes a few to get action.  Judges are reluctant to pout a parent in jail or order a mother to fay fines or even the other parent's legal fees.  One idea I've heard mentioned here is to request something that won't make it seem you're the winner, file asking for any fines to be paid into the children's education fund or something similar.  That way, the children win, though of course a disordered obstructive parent won't see it that way, but the judge might, eventually.

I like that, put the fines into a college fund. All this money we're spending on legal shenanigans is SD9's potential college fund anyway.