Strong Hints of Future Infidelity - 3 strikes (she's out) or 3 fouls?

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Hi,

I've been with my partner for over a year.  We have had a whirlwind year with many ups and downs.  I believe she has been faithful to me physically, but she acts out and often cites need for attention and validation.  When she does so, she claims that "she wasn't herself."

Incident 1)  June, 2014.  We had been fighting.  I went to the restaurant where she works at closing time to make up with her, and I saw her leaving with a coworker that has slept with many of the staff members (i.e., horn dog, lady's man, whatever).  I watched them enter a bar, and I just walked away and drove home.  She texted me an hour later and pretended she was just getting out of work.  I confronted her a week later and she lied about it.  I confronted her two weeks later and she admitted to hiding it but swears it was platonic.  Oddly, I truly believe it was an innocent platonic drink, but it creeped me out and it bothers me that she did it, didn't invite me, hid it, and lied about it.

Incident 2) July 6, 2014.  We had been fighting.  She broke up with me (she does this about every 3 weeks).  A customer at work was hitting on her and she gave him her number.  He texted her the next day asking for a date, she wrote back that "she wasn't ready" and thanked him for making her smile.  She then told me that she was beginning to get propositions.  Only when I pressed her for details did she tell me the story.  At that point, we became more of a detached pair of people, still having sex, but I was less willing to say "I'm committed to you."  She then swore her commitment to me and said she would deflect all advances and requests for phone numbers, texts, etc. 

Incident 3 (first some background: A year ago, during our "open" courtship, she "met someone" while I was still mentally detaching from my previous relationship.  They spent six hours talking at a bar and exchanged numerous texts the next day.  When she told me about it, I was very upset, but she asked him not to contact him and supposedly blocked or deleted him from her address book.)

And now the present, July 21, 2014 or so:  The guy texted her and asked her when she was working.  She told him the nights she worked, but then supposedly refused to serve him when he showed up that day.  I found out by asking about the guy in incident 2.  She neglected to tell me about Incident 3 because she knew it would upset me, etc.  It had happened 1-2 weeks prior and and didn't tell me.  This was AFTER she swore she wouldn't do this stuff.

SO.  Am I getting played?  I thought I knew this woman. 

I thought she loved me beyond belief.  But isn't this 3 strikes?  Is it just 3 fouls?  I know some of you have had it far worse than these fairly benign stories, but isn't the writing on the wall?  She has a RICH sexual history (more in her teens than her 20s, and she's approaching 30).

Before you answer, I guess I should say that I'm probably making things worse by not fully committing.  But I just have this weird feeling that she's going to take me for everything - that 1, 2, or 15 years down the line, she'll walk and destroy me.  That is what is keeping me from fully committing to her, and ironically, that is probably what is making her act out.

Any input very welcome.

[whatisbest]

Hi,

I've been with my partner for over a year.  We have had a whirlwind year with many ups and downs.  I believe she has been faithful to me physically, but she acts out and often cites need for attention and validation.  When she does so, she claims that "she wasn't herself."

Incident 1)  June, 2014.  We had been fighting.  I went to the restaurant where she works at closing time to make up with her, and I saw her leaving with a coworker that has slept with many of the staff members (i.e., horn dog, lady's man, whatever).  I watched them enter a bar, and I just walked away and drove home.  She texted me an hour later and pretended she was just getting out of work.  I confronted her a week later and she lied about it.  I confronted her two weeks later and she admitted to hiding it but swears it was platonic.  Oddly, I truly believe it was an innocent platonic drink, but it creeped me out and it bothers me that she did it, didn't invite me, hid it, and lied about it.

Incident 2) July 6, 2014.  We had been fighting.  She broke up with me (she does this about every 3 weeks).  A customer at work was hitting on her and she gave him her number.  He texted her the next day asking for a date, she wrote back that "she wasn't ready" and thanked him for making her smile.  She then told me that she was beginning to get propositions.  Only when I pressed her for details did she tell me the story.  At that point, we became more of a detached pair of people, still having sex, but I was less willing to say "I'm committed to you."  She then swore her commitment to me and said she would deflect all advances and requests for phone numbers, texts, etc. 

Incident 3 (first some background: A year ago, during our "open" courtship, she "met someone" while I was still mentally detaching from my previous relationship.  They spent six hours talking at a bar and exchanged numerous texts the next day.  When she told me about it, I was very upset, but she asked him not to contact him and supposedly blocked or deleted him from her address book.)

And now the present, July 21, 2014 or so:  The guy texted her and asked her when she was working.  She told him the nights she worked, but then supposedly refused to serve him when he showed up that day.  I found out by asking about the guy in incident 2.  She neglected to tell me about Incident 3 because she knew it would upset me, etc.  It had happened 1-2 weeks prior and and didn't tell me.  This was AFTER she swore she wouldn't do this stuff.

SO.  Am I getting played?  I thought I knew this woman. 

I thought she loved me beyond belief.  But isn't this 3 strikes?  Is it just 3 fouls?  I know some of you have had it far worse than these fairly benign stories, but isn't the writing on the wall?  She has a RICH sexual history (more in her teens than her 20s, and she's approaching 30).

Before you answer, I guess I should say that I'm probably making things worse by not fully committing.  But I just have this weird feeling that she's going to take me for everything - that 1, 2, or 15 years down the line, she'll walk and destroy me.  That is what is keeping me from fully committing to her, and ironically, that is probably what is making her act out.

Any input very welcome.

[levelup]

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I have to ask these kinds of questions,  especially when other people are more straightforward about how they spend their time, even when it comes to friendships with the opposite sex.

Mutually agree on an open relationship, an exclusive one, or bail.  If she wants to talk as though she were exclusive, while acting like things are open, she's not trustworthy.

[maxsterling]

Sounds like quite a bit you are dealing with!  I certainly feel for what you are going through.  Those are some very serious questions to consider whether your partner is BPD or not.  BPD just adds tons of complexity to the situation.

I think you should approach the situation by thinking long and deep about what kind of relationship you want.  Do you want a long term "till death do us part" relationship?  Is your ultimate goal to have a family?  Or are you just looking to have a committed relationship for now and see where it goes?    Could an "open relationship" work for you? (I ask that just as devil's advocate, because I fully realize open relationships rarely work for most people and the title of your post suggests it will not work for you)

In order to have a functional relationship with a pwBPD, you need to make sure you clean up your side of the street.  Waiting for a pwBPD to show signs she is capable of being committal before you commit is almost a guaranteed losing proposition.  The nature of this disorder usually dictates that us nons take the lead on things.  You just can't expect them to make mature decisions in the same way you do.  In that light, continuing to have sex with her while still non committal on your end is sending her the message of what kind of relationship you want.  I can almost guarantee that she won't commit to you until you exhibit true commitment to her.  I see this behavior in so many aspects of my BPD fiancé's life.  She won't even order from a menu unless she knows what I am ordering, and 75% of the time will order the same thing as me.  That's part of the "lack of identity" we talk about in regards to BPD. 

Now, let's assume you decide to commit, express that to her, and act that way towards her.  Will that change her behavior and force her to commit to you?  It may have an impact, and maybe only for a little while.  Or in a few months or years she may leave you or cheat on you.  The reality is, you can't change her behavior, you can only change yours.  But I can say that should you decide to commit, it will impact how you view things.  It means you are putting the fate of the relationship in your control.  It means that you won't be asking whether her refusal to commit has to do with your hesitation.  It makes it much easier to see and potentially end an unhealthy relationship if you know what you want on your end and she is not fulfilling her end of things.  That's all part of choosing a path.  And that requires you to make decisions about what is best for you regardless of what she does or doesn't do.

[whatisbest]

I wouldn't want to be in a relationship where I have to ask these kinds of questions,  especially when other people are more straightforward about how they spend their time, even when it comes to friendships with the opposite sex.

Mutually agree on an open relationship, an exclusive one, or bail.  If she wants to talk as though she were exclusive, while acting like things are open, she's not trustworthy.

Yes, I'm not used to being in a relationship where there is broken trust.  It makes me hesitant to extend trust and commitment.  Her pattern is similar to what I've seen on other threads - breakup to hookup, although I don't think she's been physically with any of them.  Each time there has been an incident involving another person, she has broken up with me immediately prior, thereby "justifying" her actions.  But then she claims that it's my fault because I haven't validated her.  It's a catch 22.  The more she does this, the less I want to validate her.

[whatisbest]

I think you should approach the situation by thinking long and deep about what kind of relationship you want.  Do you want a long term "till death do us part" relationship?  Is your ultimate goal to have a family?  Or are you just looking to have a committed relationship for now and see where it goes?    Could an "open relationship" work for you? (I ask that just as devil's advocate, because I fully realize open relationships rarely work for most people and the title of your post suggests it will not work for you)

I like "committed for now, see how it goes" with intention of LTR.  I don't like the dating scene.  Meeting new people is fun and exciting, but the instability and emotional ups and downs of dating is a bummer. 

She has younger children, and I've looked deeply at how I feel about becoming a father-figure to them.  I would enjoy it, but I also fear it for a wide variety of reasons (broken silence in my home, financial impact, teenagers... .). 

I'm probably not open to open relationships.  The closest I've tried could be defined as "sexual monogamy, but otherwise free" (i.e., trust your lover to be exclusive, but assume that eventually someone will move on) - and the last time I tried that was 20 years ago.

In order to have a functional relationship with a pwBPD, you need to make sure you clean up your side of the street.  Waiting for a pwBPD to show signs she is capable of being committal before you commit is almost a guaranteed losing proposition.  The nature of this disorder usually dictates that us nons take the lead on things.  You just can't expect them to make mature decisions in the same way you do.  In that light, continuing to have sex with her while still non committal on your end is sending her the message of what kind of relationship you want.  I can almost guarantee that she won't commit to you until you exhibit true commitment to her. 

It's a conundrum.  I've been burned by others in the distant past.  Her actions push me away, which push her away. 

Now, let's assume you decide to commit, express that to her, and act that way towards her.  Will that change her behavior and force her to commit to you?  It may have an impact, and maybe only for a little while.  Or in a few months or years she may leave you or cheat on you.  The reality is, you can't change her behavior, you can only change yours.  But I can say that should you decide to commit, it will impact how you view things.  It means you are putting the fate of the relationship in your control.  It means that you won't be asking whether her refusal to commit has to do with your hesitation.  It makes it much easier to see and potentially end an unhealthy relationship if you know what you want on your end and she is not fulfilling her end of things.  That's all part of choosing a path.  And that requires you to make decisions about what is best for you regardless of what she does or doesn't do.

Good points.  Yes, we're at a crossroads.  If I move toward commitment, it will validate her and she may be equally committed (as you say, at least for a while).  I'm just fearful of her need for attention and that "for a while" part.  Is it worth going back in if the pain later will be greater? 

[mywifecrazy]

I think you already know the answer but it's hard to accept, I feel for you.

Trust your instincts... .Bail out of the plane and pull the rip cord before its too late!

MWC... .

[whatisbest]

I think you already know the answer but it's hard to accept, I feel for you.

Trust your instincts... .Bail out of the plane and pull the rip cord before its too late!

I've certainly looked long down that path (and my chute has been packed due to all the rockiness).  When it's bad, it's pretty bad.  Lack of communication, harsh words, distance.  The acting out thing is new - that is, bringing other men into her life.  It's unforgivable to me (at least, in a closed relationship).  Granted, she broke up with before one of them happened.  One was supposedly platonic.  None of them involved physical contact, but in all three cases the man was hitting on her and she responded in ways that I don't accept.

I should mention that we have a good time together when it's good.  Great conversations, many laughs, phenomenal sex, similar interests, genuine interest in each other's lives.  We've grown and bonded together and so it's difficult to think of leaving all that.

[mywifecrazy]

I think you already know the answer but it's hard to accept, I feel for you.

Trust your instincts... .Bail out of the plane and pull the rip cord before its too late!

I've certainly looked long down that path (and my chute has been packed due to all the rockiness).  When it's bad, it's pretty bad.  Lack of communication, harsh words, distance.  The acting out thing is new - that is, bringing other men into her life.  It's unforgivable to me (at least, in a closed relationship).  Granted, she broke up with before one of them happened.  One was supposedly platonic.  None of them involved physical contact, but in all three cases the man was hitting on her and she responded in ways that I don't accept.

I should mention that we have a good time together when it's good.  Great conversations, many laughs, phenomenal sex, similar interests, genuine interest in each other's lives.  We've grown and bonded together and so it's difficult to think of leaving all that.

Totally understandable. It was the worst feeling in the world when my uBPDxw left me. I was with her for 20 years. I dont't wish that for you. Unfortunately I was blind on the  .

Being with someone for life shouldn't make you accept things that you don't approve of. Take it as a blessing that you're finding these things out now. Don't feel like it's your job to fix her or rescue her because you can't. I feel sorry for these women with BPD but the healthiest thing you can do is to let them go, heed the warning signals she's giving you. You DONT want to end up having kids with her because them you CAN'T get away!

Good luck to you!

MWC... .

[whatisbest]

I think you already know the answer but it's hard to accept, I feel for you.

Trust your instincts... .Bail out of the plane and pull the rip cord before its too late!

A little update... .We had been interacting lightly, initially only as lovers, but very quickly it became a relationship again.  She swept the 3 incidents under the rug and eventually I wasn't allowed to bring them up (I was berating her).  We didn't resolve the issues and I was watching her closely, evaluating what I wanted to do.  Her birthday came and she asked me to join her for a vacation at a cabin.  We actually had a fight the night before and I made her drive up alone, but joined her the next day.  It was healing and a good 3-day event without incident.

Now, after several weeks of relatively good interactions, we just had another big fight.  It was over yet another guy giving her his phone number.  This time, she told him about me and suggested that the 3 of us go out together.  She claimed he wasn't hitting on her.  I'm trying to keep it in perspective and entertain the possibility that it was just a new friend, nothing more.  But I got very jealous because of the recent history and fears of future infidelity.  I'm not normally a particularly jealous person, and I honestly can't tell whether I'm being a jealous jerk by getting upset, or whether to trust my instincts screaming to take "my out".  I feel like I can trust her, but I hate that she's a social butterfly and seems to attract a lot of male friends.  She works at restaurants, so they're in steady supply.

I'm lost and struggling with whether to re-engage or walk.  Do I try to work through it with her, or do I stay distant and risk her acting out as she has in the past during breaks.   

[mywifecrazy]

I think you already know the answer but it's hard to accept, I feel for you.

Trust your instincts... .Bail out of the plane and pull the rip cord before its too late!

I'm lost and struggling with whether to re-engage or walk.  Do I try to work through it with her, or do I stay distant and risk her acting out as she has in the past during breaks.   

Risk her acting out if your not around her 24/7?  Is that how you want your life to be? I'm not making light of your situation and I do understand the pain you're in. A healthy relationship with a healthy person does not require the actions of one person to make the other person do the right thing. You should not have to watch over her so she will be faithful. She should be faithful even if she was home alone and a troop of Chippendale dancers showed at her house and she was drunk.

I feel for you brother.  It's just a little easier to see once your on the other side of the BPD FOG. Whatever you do I wish you well!

MWC... .