Part 2: Husband found marijuana in daughter17's room

[jellibeans]

I have a decision to make and I am finding it hard. Last night my dd asked to go to six flags on Wednesday with her friends (her only two friends she has right now) She is in an out patient program that runs Monday to Thursday 2:00 to 4:30... .she also has individual therapy Wednesday as well... .I know this should be pretty clear cut but I am struggling here. She seems so down and out and in need of some time with her friends. She is allowed to miss three OPT classes... .so am I going to be ridgit or am I going to give her a day to go do something fun. She has not done anything this summer and I was hoping a day at six flags would lift her spirits but I also have no way of trusting her. I could drug test her when she gets back but I am just not sure I should let her miss the therapy... .feedback welcomed... .I am really questioning all my decision lately. That could be because of the parent therapy I have with her on Mondays and Thursdays... .I have been reading a lot and really trying to be more mindful etc... .the result of this seems to be lack of confidence.




Continuation of

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=228502.40

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[theplotthickens]

Honestly, I don't think her behavior has earned that type of trust.  I'd support the socialization, but it doesn't need to be unsupervised at a major theme park.  It's a pretty decent place to use, if you don't want your mom to find out.  She can always claim she is testing positive for the weed from the last use.

Do you trust her?  If you don't; stand firm. 

[mama72]

You are in a tough spot, jellibeans.

How has she been doing in treatment?

Is she grounded? If she is, do you think this is consistent behavior on your part? I know if I show the least bit of consistency with my dd, she will take advantage of it.

I would say that treatment trumps fun, and I think the counselors would agree? Those treatment sessions she is allowed to miss may be for other reasons and not for social activities. Maybe talk to her substance abuse counselors and see what their opinions are? Maybe they can be the "bad guy" instead of you.

Do you have any gut feeling in the matter?

[jellibeans]

She has been going to therapy but half hearted... .she goes but often doen't participate. She confrontational and defiant but that is nothing new.

Her therapist said okay. She has been to a ton of appointments this last two weeks. I am exhausted myself.

She has been grounded but today I am letting her drive herself to therapy. She has not her her car for well over a week and even before that she had limited access. She is looking forward to driving herself and I think that makes her feel things are back to normal.

Part of thinks that if I say okay her plans will fall through anyway so I am tempted to say yes. It is suppose to rain tomorrow and for the rest of the week so I am not sure they will go through with their plans.  I can trust her to go to the park but I am not sure missing therapy is necessary. Friday she has a free day and I would rather her take that day to do something. I am trying to keep an open mind here... .trying to problem solve and I want her to know that I am listening to her.

I think I will see how today goes and see if I can ask the therapist about letting her go. I think that will help me decide. Just so tired right now. My older d has health issues and I have her appointment as well so I am wore out a bit.

[theplotthickens]

I am just wondering how she has earned so much trust back in just over a week?  In the end, you are the one who has to live with her violating your boundaries and you have to decide what you can live with.   I don't find therapists to be in an authoritiative role for teens; they are there to listen, validate, and support.  They don't have to live with it!   I do believe that many therapists coddle our kids to the point where they excuse everything they do and enable them while encouraging soft boundaries.

I encourage you to make the decision that makes the most sense for you, rather than putting a therapist who doesn't live with you, or know your child the way you do, in charge.

It sounds like you are recognizing that you are tired and worn out.  I'm sure your dd realizes this as well.  I have found that my dd takes full advantage of me when I am hesitant and too exhausted to hold hard boundaries.  I completely understand where you are.  I hope that you trust yourself as a mother and trust your own intuition on what would be best.  I wish you well!  I hope you are taking good care of yourself.

I am coming from the perspective that soft boundaries have only created more problems than they solve.  Our kids are extremely demanding, entitled, and they learn quick that they can control us with the threat of their raging and suicidal ideation. I see this as illness talking, and I don't believe in ever giving in to the illness.   I wonder if the therapist help your daughter come up with ways to earn trust over time.  That is the Big Picture here.  What has helped me out a bit is having a (written?) plan in place so that I don't constantly have to make decisions and deal with fallout.  

Wishing you a better day!  I hope something is useful.

 

[jellibeans]

Yes I agree theplotthickens what you are saying but I have recently been rereading Valerie Porr's book and It has made me think again about what really works with BPD kids. I although I agree consequences are necessary I don't know if punishment is. I wish I could put it into words better but Porr's book is so insightful. I guess I come back to the point that I truly beleive that once my dd knows better, she will do better. There will always be trust issue with my dd... .I don't know if that will truly be repaired 100%. I feel that is too ingrained within her and I will always question if that was the real story or was only part based on truth.

Today she drove herself to her therapy and is to call when she gets there. She doesn't have her phone back yet and is still grounded. My husband doesn't want to give her her phone but the simply truth here is if we want her to learn how to be responsible with her phone we need to give her the opportunity to use one. The trick is to re-enforce good behavior and ignore the bad.

I love this therapy we are going to because although hard at times learning DBT skills is only going to help our relationship. My dd is 17 now and I feel this year is a time for her to stand on her own two feet. I feel I need to approach things from a different direction. Really embrace Radical Acceptance... .provide opportunities and support her the best we can. Be less judgemental... .that is my goal.

While typing this her Therapist called and said it was totally up to us if we wanted to approve the trip to six flags So we will see when she gets home how things went at group and see if the weather forecast is even nice enough to go.

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Jellibeans,

I really feel for you!

I love this therapy we are going to because although hard at times learning DBT skills is only going to help our relationship. My dd is 17 now and I feel this year is a time for her to stand on her own two feet. I feel I need to approach things from a different direction. Really embrace Radical Acceptance... .provide opportunities and support her the best we can. Be less judgemental... .that is my goal.

I think my DD17 is just a little older than yours, as she will be 18 in October.  This has been a very turbulent year for us, which is what drove me here to bpdfamily. Your strategy sounds like a good one to me.  I can tell you from my own experience this past year, the harder I push for my agenda, the harder my DD pushes back.  When I "let go" she calms down and becomes much more receptive.  I've noticed that many parents here have reported that their BPDoffspring must learn things on their own and suffer the natural consequences from their behavior.  I know my own life gets much easier to bear when I relax my standards and let that happen.   There is a distinction between relaxing my standards (what I want) and my limits (what I will tolerate) though. 

I feel like I'm living and breathing the Serenity Prayer because there is soo much about my BPDD that I can't control and it is hard to tell the difference between what I can and cannot control at times.  I'm still learning to practice Radical Acceptance, and that is helping me.  A lot.

As for tough your decision about Six Flags, I think you're on the right track by waiting to see how it goes today.  If your DD stays calmed down enough to talk to her about your concerns about it, perhaps giving her the chance to go have some fun would be good for her.  If your DD is anything like mine, she will assume she is being "punished" if she doesn't get to go.  That could have worse consequences than letting her go.   How would she respond if you leveled with her and told her you'd really like for her to go relax and have some fun?  But also share with her that you recognize she's been through a lot recently and you know she is doing her best to recover.  Then state your concerns... .And ask her to give her word that she won't __?___.  Sometimes a vote of confidence is what they need.

Ultimately, YOU know your DD best.  Somewhere on this site, I read that when something isn't working, try something else.  Maybe that strategy applies here?

Let us know how it goes and what you decide.  I know it's a really tough decision!

[jellibeans]

Well I went to the movies today while my dd was at therapy. Had a good time with friends and it was nice to get out.

When I got home DD told me the plans had changed. They were no longer going to six flags because of rain threats. She was in a good mood and will be going to therapy tomorrow. They are going to reschedule the six flags trip for next week. I told her that she should try and plan something for this Friday. She has no therapy or any appointments. It all worked out in the end. On to the next challenge... .

[HealingSpirit]

WHEW!  That's awesome!

[pessim-optimist]

I am glad to hear that it all worked out, jellibeans!

I was going to say (and this might be something for the next time) that if I were in your shoes, and was willing to let her go, I'd still sit her down and say something like this:

"I know you've been through a lot lately, and I think that relaxing with friends might be good for you. I am inclined to let you go.

I want you think about something though, and then make your own decision on it:

This therapy allows you to miss 3 appointments.

As I see it, you have two options: If you want tomorrow to be one of those 3, that's fine. You will only have 2 left, and you will need to manage them very carefully. If something comes up later, it might be really hard on you.

The second option would be to talk to your friends and see, if they would be willing to reschedule the trip for Friday - that way, you can keep your 3 days, AND enjoy the time with your friends.

What do you think would be best for you?"

I'd assume that she might still want to go the next day as our kids don't do the "delayed gratification" too well, and asking her friends to reschedule might be too much for her, anyway.

It would be an opportunity though to talk to her in a more adult way, and to let her weigh the options, and make her own decision, and bear the consequences.

It's scary as right now she might act like a little kid, but in a few months, she will have the rights of an adult.  Giving them as many opportunities as possible to "be the adult" within our limits might be the best school we can give them... .

[jellibeans]

That is a good point pessim... .I know this will come up again and I will try that next time. I think you are right... .it really is her problem and she should try to solve it rather than be solve it for her. thanks

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[sunshineplease]

Reading all the new posts (so helpful to be reminded of Valerie Porr's points, especially!) helped me remember that there is no "right answer" when issues come up with my daughter. It used to be that I was afraid of misstepping on those emotional eggshells, and I don't want to transfer that same kind of intensity to fear of "doing the wrong thing" as a parent. I liked what you said, jellibeans, about reinforcing good behavior and not getting too worked up about the bad. I tend to see an error in judgement as backsliding and all my old fears return in full force!

Onward and upward, and thanks for sharing so openly.

[jellibeans]

Unfortunately things continue to be unsettled with my dd17... .last night I caught her in a few lies and she wouldn't pick up her phone when I called. My life360 ap located her at a parking lot near our home. When she finally came home I asked her a bunch of questions and found she had not been truthful. I then asked for a drug test and she refused which to me makes me think she was up to trouble last night. This morning she offered to pee in a cup for me but she is now very combative with us and is making things difficult. I am not allowed to watch or stand outside the door. She is very dysregulated and I have removed myself from the situation. I didn't drug test her and she is now unhappy about that. If she not going to to do it willingly and without yelling then I simply am not willing to have someone verbally abuse me when I am give them the opportunity to prove their innocents. It is going to be that kind of weekend and we leave for the beach next week which I am sure will not be enjoyable. This really has been the worse summer for us all.

We have been going to therapy together through this DBT group that meets from Monday to Thursday... .parent go Monday and Thursday and we are all together. I have found it to be very helpful and I continue to work on the skills being taught. Next week is our last week and I don't feel she really has taken anything away from the group at all. She continues to lie and I have little trust in her. Wish I had better things to report but I am just plain tired of it all. The drug testing was her idea so she could have more freedom to go out... .this was the first time I asked her to take it.

I don't want to focus on the bad behavior but I can't allow her to have use of our car when I know she is doing drugs etc... .any in sight would be welcomed... .I am not feeling very wise today

[parent of bpd daughter]

As someone who's been thru hell with my own BPDD for over 20 years now - I want to offer a contrarian viewpoint. Don't lock up her weed - don't tell her she can't smoke it. Ignore it to the furthest extent possible. It has been my experience that when my BPDD smoked weed - the results were MUCH BETTER than when she chose alcohol or other risky behaviors like promiscuous sex.

I am not saying become some neglectful parent in denial that weed is some wonder drug - I am just saying pick your battles - if smoking weed calms her down and gives her some tranquility. The riskiest thing is where she is getting it from - if you have any contact with her friends parents - perhaps you can discuss this and carefully observe to get insight into where they obtain this - from their teenaged friends or some creepy middle aged dealer.

I know this sounds crazy -but compared to some of the things by BPDD (now 35) has put me through - I wish I was back in the day when all I worried about was her smoking pot and cigarettes.

Hope she can have some success with DBT  - if she can get to it while she's young - she has better chance of survival I think.

Peace and hope to you.

[jellibeans]

Dear parent of BPD duaghter

that is an interesting approach and I have to say it is not the drug use that really bothers me but the fact she is driving our car and that is unsafe. It is the constant lying and the deceitful ways. It is not that I was upset even with her but she had asked that we drug test her in return for more freedom out side the house... .but when we took her up on that offer we were met with verbal abuse. She smoke cigs and weed and alos drinks... .she is the party girl and that is her choice BUT I will not help her with her endevors... .I will not give her money or a car to drive around in.

I wish she would try at the DBT therapy but so far I have seen very little effort... .her ODD is very strong and seems to get stronger every day... .it wears me out... .I feel I do need to distance myself from her and that makes me very sad. What is worse is the feeling of hopelessness that goes along with it all... .I will go back and read Valerie Porr's book some more... .start making my list of things to bring to the beach and hope she don't try and ruin that vacation as well.

[jellibeans]

Today was my last day of therapy with my dd17 and they covered radical acceptance... .little did I know that I would need this for our next appointment with her P where he informed me that my dd was now huffing and inhaling solvents... .he said he needed to tell me because the behavior was dangerous and causes brain damage. I used my DBT skills a lot for this vist and the long ride home. Trying not to show disappointment... .trying not to be judgemental. I tried to be neutral... .but I will tell you my heart is hurting tonight.

[Rapt Reader]

I'm sorry, jellibeans 

I remember how I felt when my son told me (in a fit of rage one day when he was late for work and would now not be able to leave early to hunt down his fix for the day) that he was doing illegal drugs. My heart burst apart that moment and I couldn't pick up all the pieces for many months... .

Please take care, and I wish your daughter Godspeed in her search for happiness... .

[mama72]

I am so sorry, jellibeans, thag your heart is hurting. Do you sometimes wonder if it will always hurt this much, or do ypu hope to get numbed. I know I wonder.

I am proud that you utilized your DBT skills, good for you to think through what you are saying. I am progressively vetting better at it to. Baby steps.

Was there any signs of your dd huffing? Any clues? Or is this just way out of left field, like most new findings are with our pwBPD?

[jellibeans]

Rapt: thanks Rapt... .my heart did kind of take a hit tonight. I am just trying to take it all in.

mama: I knew she was smoking weed but I didn't know about the huffing. She has had a terrible cough these last few weeks so maybe that is the reason. I am not numb... .that is not really the word I would use. My heart hurts for this child.

We are going to the beach Wednesday for a few days. I hope that will be relaxing and my dd17 will enjoy herself. My husband and I are trying to decide what to do. We can't keep going through the same things over and over again.

[pessim-optimist]

I am so sorry jellibeans! 

I just read this thread and have to sign out, I will come back tomorrow, and write more, but I wanted you to know that I am thinking of you - this must have been heartbreaking news... . 

[lever.]

I'm really sorry to hear this jellibeans-I expect the medics will have explained the dangers to her.

I have no advice to offer -just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you- I hope you all enjoy the beach break and can put everything aside for a few days 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Jellibeans,

Huffing and solvents?  Really?  Oh noo!  This is so unfair and so hard!  I can tell you are such a good mom, and you're doing a GREAT job learning and using DBT skills and every other effective parenting technique under the sun.  You're such a great example to all of us here, dealing with some of the worst BPD has to offer.  I am so sorry your DD continues to make such poor choices in the light of all you are doing to save her from herself.  It is heartbreaking to see our kids self-destruct right before our eyes, no matter what we do to help.  And God knows, YOU have certainly done more than most here.  It is just so unfair that you don't get to see sustained positive results from all your efforts... .yet. 

I hope a few days at the beach will help distract your whole family.  That sounds like a wonderful idea!  Let us know how it goes.

[jellibeans]

thanks lever, Healing, pessim

I have had the most stressful day getting ready for this trip. Nothing has gone right. After dropping my dd off at OPT I raced back home to try and do the food shopping for the trip but just as I was pulling into the store parking lot a got a phone call from the T telling me no one showed up and I could come get my dd. The drive is a 30min drive each way. I am trying to imagine myself on the beach with a cold beverage right now because I am so done.

I think it was a good thing that we talked about radical acceptance at the last OPT... .it helped me stay calm and although I felt like crying the whole way home I didn't want my dd to see how disappointed I was. I really am heartbroken from this recent development.

I will regroup on vacation... .I sent out a ton of emails last night and was up past 1am but I think I have some direction for when we get back. I new therapy place that deals with dual DX and the drug/alcohol aspect. It runs Monday, wednesday,friday and sunday night. It is a lot of therapy but the only other thing is RTC and I just not sure that is the right route with my dd. She is so ODD... .really bad and she doesn't want help and I am not sure she ever will. They will not be able to break her... .at least this is my fear. I will thnk on this more and see if there is a way or a place that will fit my dd.

wish me luck on our vacation... .I hope things go well.

[pessim-optimist]

Dear jellibeans, in spite of all the recent trouble, I wish you the best possible time at the beach. 

She is so ODD... .

I have been thinking about this since you mentioned it recently in this thread, and wondered if that might be a big part of the overall problem in her downward spiral... .

I don't know much about ODD so I was looking up more information and among others, I found this on Wikipedia:

"... .therapists may work with parents to discontinue ways in which they are unintentionally reinforcing unwanted behaviors. An example of how positive reinforcement can occur is when the patient is rewarded with attention when performing ODD behaviors. Attention is reinforcing itself and the reinforcing attention could be accidentally given, ironically, when trying to create a negative consequence to their behavior.

... .Researchers have found that the use of positive reinforcement and praise for appropriate behaviors are two key elements in effective interventions. If the majority of interactions with the child are focused around correcting their negative behaviors, a cycle of negative interactions is created, where the child expects attention after misbehaving."

Do your dd's therapists work with you on her ODD? Do they have any helpful advice?

I was also wondering if giving your dd lots of positive attention whenever she's not acting up might make your vacation a bit better? Not that it's an answer to your troubles... .no easy solutions... . 

[Elbry]

 

I'm so sorry to read about the huffing Jellibeans.  You must be terrified and heartbroken.  You are one of the hardest working, most loving moms I have ever come across and you inspire me. 

[jellibeans]

pessim

I think this is a good point you have made. I probably could do more to encourage her and notice good behavior. I will make an effort to do this while away and see if it has any impact. I might have to make stuff up because good behavior is kind of rare around here. I do say thanks if she helps me but she rarely offers to help. In fact it is usually me doing things for her.

I am going to talk to her T about what you have written and see if there is a way to reduce her defiancy. Her P thought her big problem was her impulsiveness. She has not been on any ADHD meds this whole summer.

I really am willing to do or try anything. On a side note my dd says she might take a year off after graduating... .maybe do some bartending... .I can't make this stuff up.

[theplotthickens]

This if off-topic, and I apologize for that, but have you thought of the possibility that the program is where she is getting the drugs?

My dd started smoking weed and taking drugs while in her 9-month program.  The kids were great at outsmarting the staff!

Take a look at where she was before entering treatment and then after.   Have behaviors and number of incidents increased or decreased?  My experience is that they increase.  I would consider individual treatment and getting her out of the  group therapies and group treatments, as the adolescents support each other in unhealthy choices and normalizing anti-social behaviors.   Getting out of those environments is what turned my daughter around for the better. 

Praying for you and your dear family to get clarity and peace.