"I don't want to hurt you"

[elessar]

you know CVM... .so many times I have felt like screaming at her... you don't want a husband, nor do you need a husband, you should just marry your parents because that is exactly what you want in your life... .mommy-daddy. and it comes from her not having any stability... .because of her parents, which causes her to seek them even more for stability. the number of times she has told me that she can't be with me because of financial stability. but what is stability? I am highly educated, with an income, zero debt, and 3-4 years I will reach a point where I can earn 6 figures. But she wants it NOW. that is stability for her. have as many ppl around her as possible. one of her famous quotes is "i am already half crazy. if i live by myself i will go completely crazy". as such at age 30 she has never left home. she doesn't even have her own room or bed. shares one with a sister. sounds crazy to us. but it is security for a pwBPD. marrying me might make her lose family and friends. so i am disposable. moving away from NYC might make her distant from parents, so i am out. yet marrying someone even farther away than me from NYC... .lets see if it goes ahead. as we know, out of sight/out of mind. can they live without their stability (parents) in sight? few months ago she was wondering if he brother and sister in law will care for her when her parents die. I was wondering "damn, she never wants to leave home!" seeing that child-like trait just melts your heart, and add to their cruelty when the BPD traits take over, and we are just left with painful confusion.

[Soccerchic]

My uBPD husband uses the following:

Im sorry

You would be better with out me

Im not a good husband or father

Now he may believe this but he seems to use it as a manipulative tactic where he can claim an inability to take care of an adult task, take the waif position ie victim, and look to me to rescue his helpless self.  It also seems to absolve him from responsibility for his own actions in his mind.  He did not make a mistake, he didnt mean to do what he did and it is due to his make up rather than his decisions.  It makes my skin crawl when I hear it now and causes me to almost enter the leaving your BPD board.

[pavilion]

I echo Elessar's and Narellan's words CVM. so touching and something I can definitely relate to. Since I ended the relationship only a week ago I am noticing the void within me again. That feeling that someone is there for me to support me, to believe in me and to adore me has faded (it became sporadic after a year but glimpses were there). That is the role that our caregiver should have played when we were young. I would guess that many of us on here lacked consistent unconditional love and support as children hence we haven't been able to internalise that feeling of safety and look for it elsewhere. Perhaps also why we are drawn to those who provide inconsistent support and love.

Thankfully for me whilst we were together I continued to develop my sense of self and have begun to learn to self soothe so although the void is there I feel no desperate need to fill it with another human being. Having said that I still don't feel that I am immune to his magnetic pull!

[Narellan]

So true Pavilion, thank you for your post. It really rings true for me.

[MissTajo]

Soccerchic, my bf does the exact same thing. He has a child and uses this as an excuse not to contact him more. He also uses this excuse whenever I call his attention to his hability to perform simple tasks like folding his clothes, washing his hands... .etc. It became very rare the occasions when I actually need to say to him these things but when whenever I cant keep it in and (always) calmly tell him... .Its the "im leaving because you deserve more" act. Its frustrating... .

[Suspicious1]

CVM - yes! Your story is heartbreaking, but instinctively I know my ex would be exactly the same. I got all that trash about how he would always be there for me, even if we split and were apart. All I had to do was call him and he'd be there. The times I'd spent coping with things on my own were over. All that stuff. He would be offended when I didn't take him up on it, but honestly I'm a grown-up and good at managing things on my own, so never felt I needed to.

But yes. ONCE I asked for his help. And because I was being split black it was a big fat no. Thinking you have a safety net there and finding out it has holes in it is worse than not having it at all, and yes, can be extremely traumatic. Thankfully I was prepared for a rejection, but if it had been any earlier in my journey I'd have been caught completely off guard.

Again, that was why I asked him what he'd have thought if someone else was treating me the way he had in the past. If no one was allowed to talk badly to me or hurt me, how could he justify doing it himself?

Like I said in another post - he went from wanting to marry me, to within a couple of weeks seemingly not caring if I lived or died. Impossible to rely on; impossible to keep up with.

[Caredverymuch]

CVM - yes! Your story is heartbreaking, but instinctively I know my ex would be exactly the same. I got all that trash about how he would always be there for me, even if we split and were apart. All I had to do was call him and he'd be there. The times I'd spent coping with things on my own were over. All that stuff. He would be offended when I didn't take him up on it, but honestly I'm a grown-up and good at managing things on my own, so never felt I needed to.

But yes. ONCE I asked for his help. And because I was being split black it was a big fat no. Thinking you have a safety net there and finding out it has holes in it is worse than not having it at all, and yes, can be extremely traumatic. Thankfully I was prepared for a rejection, but if it had been any earlier in my journey I'd have been caught completely off guard.

Again, that was why I asked him what he'd have thought if someone else was treating me the way he had in the past. If no one was allowed to talk badly to me or hurt me, how could he justify doing it himself?

Like I said in another post - he went from wanting to marry me, to within a couple of weeks seemingly not caring if I lived or died. Impossible to rely on; impossible to keep up with.

Suspicious, how hair raising that so many of our stories are nearly identical and heartbreaking.  The level of betrayal is astonishing. And zero accountability.  That is not something I allow the disorder to take blame for.  To exploit another to that depth is beyond wrong.  I would not want to be in those shoes on judgement day. I am quite sorry for your shared experience and pain as I  am for all unfortunate enough  to have been in our situation with a pBPD interaction. Ironic, my ex used to talk so often about suicidal idealization and his constant remark was that he wondered how ppl would feel if he were no longer around. This would break my heart and make me weep, assuring him how valued and loved. As such the thought never crossed my mind in regard to me. What would he do if anything ever happened to me?  I got my answer as he left me for dead. And drove away with out looking back once. Thank you for sharing.

[Narellan]

CVM and suspicious... .Our stories are so alike and what makes the grief and loss cycle so difficult in the aftermath of our relationships is trying to make sense of it from our rational minds. Even once we start to believe it was a fantasy, that is irrational to me.

I can only take comfort in knowing I loved him completely and unconditionally and he was unable to accept that. The calmness is coming back into my life after several months of grieving and for me now its just radical acceptance. I will always love him like I've never loved before but I cannot have him in my life anymore. And so I need to do my best everyday to remain no contact. Not just for my sanity, but for his as well.

Peace 

[Caredverymuch]

CVM and suspicious... .Our stories are so alike and what makes the grief and loss cycle so difficult in the aftermath of our relationships is trying to make sense of it from our rational minds. Even once we start to believe it was a fantasy, that is irrational to me.

I can only take comfort in knowing I loved him completely and unconditionally and he was unable to accept that. The calmness is coming back into my life after several months of grieving and for me now its just radical acceptance. I will always love him like I've never loved before but I cannot have him in my life anymore. And so I need to do my best everyday to remain no contact. Not just for my sanity, but for his as well.

Peace 

narr and susp , yes our stories are so alike.  Although I understand it most certainly is a disorder it is uncanny that they literally read almost word for word from the same script. There are some things I will attribute to the disorder and some I will not allow that much leniency to. I don't believe it all was a fantasy. I do understand the deep idealization, but fantasies generally are enlaced in with glee. With happy endings.

The incredulous amount of attention and constant effort applied to imploding into our very being while almost dubiously pleading to share ourselves so fully and so safely with them, in a way you can only share once, if ever, in life. And to then ambush and exploit those very safely guarded and private  vulnerabilities with such hate.  I draw the line on disorder vs intent there. Please don't holler at me readers.   

I do understand this is termed a defensive mechanism to protect against perceived abandonment, but that degree of invasion into someone's safe place, the soul place with such warmth and such compassion, and to turn that on you with such vitriol does not get my pass. There really has to be a stop button there being purposefully ignored. If you dont want to be with someone, leave. If you cant own up to why, leave as a coward. None of that is good, but still draws a clean line.

  Its horrific what they do.  They gain your trust and they use it against you in ways no one ever could imagine.  And with zero accountability.  No pass from me on those things. Ill excuse much but not the inexcusable that is reprehensible behavior.

[Suspicious1]

I agree with pretty much all of that. I guess the way I see it is that the idealisation stage wasn't  fantasy, was utterly real to the pwBPD (and it was certainly real to me). The issue is that the hate stage was also utterly real to the pwBPD. Now that, I think, is where the line between the disorder and personal accountability comes in. The disorder made him split; he couldn't help that. But what does one do when they hate someone? You can still hate and be angry, but express that or behave in an ethical way, and I think that is where I start to draw the line.

I too was encouraged to open up in a way I never had before. He encouraged my trust, he encouraged me to rely on him to always be there. He knew this was difficult for me because of being let down so often (since childhood) in the past, so it was a big deal to me. And then when he had all that he stepped aside and let me fall. He elicited trust, and then used information obtained through that trust against me.

I also felt there was a "stop" button that was being ignored. I remember thinking that when I learned about his violent past - that he didn't seem to have the "off switch" that others had to stop them going too far. He just kept on going, way past what was normal, reasonable, humane - whatever. Eventually I learned that his lack of an off switch applied to his emotional violence too. I could be begging with him to stop, just to back off, to let me catch my breath, but he'd keep laying into me with such cruelty. It was like being knocked to the floor and then kicked while I was down there.

So yes, there's hate, which he couldn't help, and there's kindness, which surely could have still be applied to some extent. Like when he found himself in a fight, there was always a point at which he could have walked away. It seemed like he just wanted to push me to a point where I just wouldn't be able to get up again.

[Narellan]

Quote "I too was encouraged to open up in a way I never had before. He encouraged my trust, he encouraged me to rely on him to always be there. He knew this was difficult for me because of being let down so often (since childhood) in the past, so it was a big deal to me. And then when he had all that he stepped aside and let me fall. He elicited trust, and then used information obtained through that trust against me. "

Yes. Exactly the same for me.

[Caredverymuch]

I too was encouraged to open up in a way I never had before. He encouraged my trust, he encouraged me to rely on him to always be there. He knew this was difficult for me because of being let down so often in the past, so it was a big deal to me. And then when he had all that he stepped aside and let me fall. [/quote]
This to me is abominable and exactly my experience.

My interaction w a pBPD started as a friendship. Lasting a few years prior to becoming a romantic r/s. 

This was a point I continually came back to in therapy.  How could a friend, my friend,  gain all that trust with so much effort in such a loving, accepting way. And then defy and exploit that very deep trust, of their friend, kicking so hard in the most vulnerable areas?

This point alone killed my soul.

My t could not understand why I could not get past that "friend defying a friend thing." Do long standing friends do this to their friends? The things he told me about his life, in the time of our "friendship", I felt very valued and compassionate to know. I completely listened, supported him in the most non judgmental good friend way, and remained openly encouraging.

I was coming off the heels of an emotionally long standing loveless marriage with a cold withholding pNPD. A man who never was present emotionally. He knew how much I value the sanctity of marriage. How loving I am. How hurt I was as a result of much. And how much I tried and the work I applied for years. And that I truly WAS in a good place moving forward. I did my work with my spouse, grieved the marriage fully. And was going forward with no expectations of anything more but to be so thankful I was out of that union. SO HAPPY.SO FREE.So alive. Finally.

How he knew. We spoke about this all as friends would do. Over coffee and such easy occasion. I normally was NOT this type of person, to open up,  but he was SO understanding and SO sensitive, and SO "empathetic", and so wanting to be my friend. So I did open up. Finally. And  I told him my greatest concern moving forward was to protect myself. To honor the strength I had gained in being largely alone in that marriage and still being okay coming out. I was very much looking forward to my well earned peace.

He capitalized on that so much.

He did all of the things my spouse never did for me. The active effort was on overdrive. During idealization. Went to GREAT lengths to do so many incredible things. Oh, the things he did. Too numerous and too endearing and too hurtful now to mention. Constantly. Suggested fully by him. Set up all by him. Truly like a man I had never known before. And he would not let up.

How he talked about the fact he could never be like my ex. He was so hurt and confused why a man would treat me so uncaringly.  He was be founded actually. But, HE, my friend, friends who feel it love, was here now.  And it was US. It always was US. We just had to find each other.

He showed up in every way I wished for and had never experienced. In larger than life, loving, big huge ways.  And even, in my mature control back then, being incredibly intoxicatingly and  flattered, but still able to rationalize. 

He would sob. Big, lovingly, eye to eye, endearing tears. 

Baby, I love you.

It's us.

Please.

I finally found you, and you have found me. God bought us together.

I want to care for you, for us, forever, as no one has ever before.

I yearn for the day we never have to say goodbye and can begin our life together.

It's us. And I am not letting you go. Ever.

I was captivated. But, still in control.

Greatly in love with him by then. Still, leveled, I could keep my reserve. My logical mind was still alive.

I talked with him at length, this man, my friend of years. He knew I loved him and always would. He knew my story. I knew his. But I was in a place of being very happy moving forward. And I needed to work on self protection. And remain in my good mindset.  And to be with my children who mean the world to me. And to continue to do so much in such appreciation and happiness of life. I really was SO happy and so at peace with at that point in my life. And so deserving of it all.

I asked that he, as my friend, respect what I had endured in my marriage and let this situation that was forming between us end. Please. Lets remain the friends we always have been. Please respect me that way.

He looked me straight in the eye and said I was wrong. No way. He could not. Would not. Remain just my friend. I was the love of his life. We finally found each other. And although he knew I could not believe that the goodness I always deserved was finally here, it WAS. It was US. And he simply would not let me go.  Baby, it's us. And our life has just begun.

Oh, how he set me up and let me fall. Like setting up the entire bowling alley of pins and then crashing all those pins down. And just letting the person. The "friend". Fall. Crash really. Overnight it seemed.  All alone by then.

Bc he completely isolated me by then from so much. And left me there, completely alone. And walked away. Sped away actually.

Not without adding an immense smear campaign and removing much of my support system in big ways, through his lies and incredulous well veiled manipulations, that were well believed and unilaterally self protective, of only him, in larger than life ways.  I stood by totally dismayed, shocked, confused, heartbroken, and soul raped in disbelieve. As he appeared like only a rose?

And never, ever once checked back to be sure his "best friend', who had asked repeatedly and poignantly for the same respect I had afforded him, so I could move correctly forward with my life.

Was okay.

[Narellan]

CVM I'm sending you so much love and a big hug from across the miles. You beautifully put into words my EXACT story... .My exh of 22 years was bipolar and my marriage was the same as yours. When I met my exBPD I was feeling good, moving forward and had bought a home for me and my 3 boys. I was excited for the future. I was still extremely vulnerable and " damaged" due to my marriage breakdown but the sense of freedom and relief at being out of that union was immense.

Whilst I was only with my BPD for 4 months, we had grown up together and his family had been involved with my family my entire life.

He said " Narellan I've been waiting for you my whole life"

I was head over heels and never happier. I had my family and I had him who felt indeed like my soul mate and I had my best girlfriend to share every thought and feeling with also. She was my best friend particularly since my marriage breakdown. I had known her 20 years.

Within minutes of being told by exBPD that I was forever entwined in his soul he had split me black and leaning on my best friend for support. Which she gave. Which then turned into sending flirty messages and intimate photos to him. I only discovered this by hacking his fb account.

Truly it felt like I was murdered. In the previous few weeks prior to our split I had " honeymooned" holiday with him. Never been happier. But he managed to cause conflict between my parents and sister and I. It was he and I against them. So at the time if the split he replaced me immediately with my best friend and I had no family to turn to, or him, or my best friend. I was isolated completely and left for dead in a very dark place. Without the people on here I wouldn't be here. The betrayal of my two friends I loved with all my heart has damaged me forever.

Yet 5 months on, I'm here. I'm alive and I'm rebuilding.

I will never forget that treatment I received and even though he reaches out to make contact, I'm done.

Peace to you CVM. It's a devastating discovery that humans can behave in such malicious ways. 

[Caredverymuch]

CVM I'm sending you so much love and a big hug from across the miles. You beautifully put into words my EXACT story... .My exh of 22 years was bipolar and my marriage was the same as yours. When I met my exBPD I was feeling good, moving forward and had bought a home for me and my 3 boys. I was excited for the future. I was still extremely vulnerable and " damaged" due to my marriage breakdown but the sense of freedom and relief at being out of that union was immense.

Whilst I was only with my BPD for 4 months, we had grown up together and his family had been involved with my family my entire life.

He said " Narellan I've been waiting for you my whole life"

I was head over heels and never happier. I had my family and I had him who felt indeed like my soul mate and I had my best girlfriend to share every thought and feeling with also. She was my best friend particularly since my marriage breakdown. I had known her 20 years.

Within minutes of being told by exBPD that I was forever entwined in his soul he had split me black and leaning on my best friend for support. Which she gave. Which then turned into sending flirty messages and intimate photos to him. I only discovered this by hacking his fb account.

Truly it felt like I was murdered. In the previous few weeks prior to our split I had " honeymooned" holiday with him. Never been happier. But he managed to cause conflict between my parents and sister and I. It was he and I against them. So at the time if the split he replaced me immediately with my best friend and I had no family to turn to, or him, or my best friend. I was isolated completely and left for dead in a very dark place. Without the people on here I wouldn't be here. The betrayal of my two friends I loved with all my heart has damaged me forever.

Yet 5 months on, I'm here. I'm alive and I'm rebuilding.

I will never forget that treatment I received and even though he reaches out to make contact, I'm done.

Peace to you CVM. It's a devastating discovery that humans can behave in such malicious ways. 

Well Narellan, there you have it. Perhaps one of the most unique "similar" BPD stories on this board, yet mine is no where near as cruel as what you have suffered with the devastation of such dual betrayal. All as a result of a disorder. I am sorry and sending you the love as well.

When I read your post, I felt the deepest pain at the loss of your long standing friend.  Friends get us through so much. Especially woman friends. If not for a select few of my own, I may not have endured this experience as well. I may not be here.

And, looking back, I had given my expBPD my very best friend of 20 yrs  cell number at one time. He texted her out of no where one night. She told me this. This surprised me bc it was a night he could not meet me. Yet, he was texting her?

He continually asked for her approval of us. Without even meeting her face to face. I see now that he may have been forming an attachment if she so took the bait. She was no where near that person, thankfully.  She stood by me for the duration of my 20 plus yr emotionally empty marriage as I did her in much of life. And she was as happy as I was when I gained my release from that r/s.

And, she was the only one who stood up to my exBPD, after he annihilated me. She had watched it all, as he involved her in it all even not "knowing" her, and she told him just who she thought he was.  She was the only one who did.  I will forever be thankful for that act of solidarity in knowing me and protecting me. ANd caring for me. To this day, she got me through my marriage and the BPD r/s destruction.

My expBPD isolated me from everyone else. He always wanted me to stay home, even if he was not able to be with me, he somehow manipulated me into avoiding social occasions under the guise it was our time. He invaded that time, even by text. Constant texting if I were with others. Family, friends, anyone.  He even interrupted my r/s with my children to an extent which just is shameful looking back. He required so much of me. And would invade any opportunity I had with my family or my children with his constant texting, requests to meet, his constant interruptions laced in deep love and caring. I regret so much. I was fooled and so full of caregiving and elated with his love. Bc you see, it was me he had always been looking for and never found.

 

I want to tell you how strong you are Narellian. You are doing an incredible amount of work to stay NC and to learn so much here. We are very glad you are here with us, in this incredible supportive BPD family.  And you are one strong, admirable, and very worthwhile person. Yes, it is a devastating discovery that humans can behave in such malicious ways. Glad we are not one of them 

We fell down hard, didn't we?  But, look at us. Still standing. Look at the good, loving good ppl we still are that no one could ever change. Look at our children, that incredible valuable cherished good we still have. Look at how we can move forward and grow and learn so much about that which we didn't even know we needed to learn.

Look at this through the eyes of someone who does not have BPD. Grateful eyes. We are slowing getting ourselves back. Life is going to be good again. Even better than good. Full. Tell yourself that as I do. Take care of yourself in new ways.  Give back the disorder and all it bequest on you. Give it back, where it belongs. We didn't get this chance at new life for not. I refuse to give all that I am over to a pBPD. Who has no right to have that degree of me. My essence. My good. I refuse. I will through this. I will do my work.  I will value those that have always meant the most. And get to not only the better, but the best place in life.  I know it. You can too! You already have done so much 

We fell 53 times and but we got up 54!  Let's keep walking ahead. Let's leave the disorder behind and give it back to the host, who will continue to live an empty life, based on dysfunctional patterns, based in shame. Never knowing real love or real happiness. Aren't we fortunate that we can know real happiness and real love?

We know better now. We will do better. It will take us all a different amount of time and inner work, but keep walking ahead with us Narellin, one day at a time. And stay strong! You are doing a great job!

[Narellan]

Thank you so much CVM... .Everything you have said is true. Everything you have said shows me how empowered I am now to be free of this. I am determined to stay free of the chaos both of them are trying to inflict on me.

Your friend is a true friend. I was that friend to both of them. I stood up for them both and defended them many times. I expected her to be there for me, and to call him out of his bad treatment of me. She always bagged him and always said shed be there for me through it all.

She wasn't. She was too caught up in being put on his pedestal.

When people show you their true colors don't try to repaint them. I have learned so much and I am better and more wiser for the experience. 

[Suspicious1]

Oh my goodness, we have such similar stories. My exBPD wasn't a friend beforehand, but I did get together with him at the end of an abusive marriage with someone who had some NPD traits and was quite cold to me emotionally. The exbf was like a bandage over all those wounds. Love-bombing me when I'd been neglected, promising protection when I'd been stalked and abused.

I can see why I was susceptible to it all, and why it all felt so *necessary*. And why the ending of it has been so terrifying. All I can do is hope that I'm never again as vulnerable as I was back then when he found me, and that I never again fall for the cruelty of a knight in shining armour.

Hugs to you both xxx

[goldylamont]

... .But I am starting to doubt that they replace us without having thought about it. Most of the times, they have already made up their minds whom to replace us with, then they start a fight, and the end result of every fight is a break up anyway... .and use that excuse to be with the replacement. so devious... .

oohh, yeah. in fact, i've coined a term for this it's so common:

The Classic BPD Breakup-2-Hookup Technique^{TM C}

i think one BPD play that's often overlooked is what i call the breakup-2-hookup technique. i think many pwBPD don't want to 'cheat' technically, so they will up the abuse or manufacture a scene to cause the r/s to break up--with the intention of sleeping with someone else. then, when they have their fill they can resume/recycle the longer term r/s. this way, they can claim they weren't 'cheating'. but to me, the breakup-2-hookup is even worse, it's just as calculated and you have a heavy dose of abuse doled out to cause a 'break' in the first place. it's still sleeping around whilst hiding your motives... .it's perfect in a way since they can then blame the other person for pushing them away and causing them to sleep with someone else. extra free ammo to use at a later date.

[Narellan]

Goldylamont that is so true! A great phrase. I realise now my exBPD did it frequently. After wed been seeing each other only a couple of weeks he told me his exgf was coming to stay, that had been arranged prior to meeting me and she was just friends with him now. I was with him the night before her arrival, he no longer wanted her to come. I said I'll talk to him in a couple of weeks but will give him space. Within hours of her arrival the following day he picked a massive fight with me via text which was all lies and deleted me from fb and said we are done. Two weeks later a day after the exgf flew home he was back begging forgiveness and declaring love. And lying saying they hadn't been intimate which he later recounted but I didn't care as we were separated.

He then gave me ST 3 times during the next 4 months and remained in contact with my best friend who he ultimately ditched me for... .It is so obvious now. At the time I was so confused because all the lies and blame he put on trivial little things I'd done. I questioned myself constantly about how I contributed to all these ST. When in actual fact I was just being push/ pulled and he was running free.

Your phrase makes total sense to me. It shifts the shame for him if we weren't together.

[pumpkin79]

I have heard that phrase several times in different forms.  While we were dating I heard, "I don't want to hurt you", "I always hurt people", "I just want to move away from everyone", and then just recently after I got dumped and several months of no communication had passed and I got an apology and I was dumb enough to start talking to her again, and we got close again, I heard, "I can't kiss because I don't want to mess with other's emotions" before I got pushed away again.