Is she simply trying to get me back to do the dumping?

[anxiety5]

If an uBPD is broken up with to get space because things get toxic, what then? I told her I needed her to stop contacting me. Don't check in with me, I'm fine. She couldn't do that. She said I'm her best friend (even though she cheated on me) The dissolution of the relationship I will take partial ownership of but not totally. You see for 9 months she walked all over me (read my first post about my situation) FINALLY when her divorce was final (they were estranged for awhile and the relationship was soured long before the split) I decided to start making boundaries. I wanted to discuss some things that had happened but the shame she felt would never allow it. I got stormed out on, deflected and raged on. Once she got up mid conversation and turned off a light in the room off on me in her place and I could see nothing.I ran into a table trying to navigate and had a huge bruise on me. No apology. The lack of allowing me to ever express myself once the divorce was over when I was simply trying to defuse resentment and create a more balance was what created the defeatist position I was in. I decided to break away, but no doubt I still had feelings. She would keep contacting me, want to talk, etc. I caved and we'd end up having sex again. I always fell for her so hard. But the odd thing is when I would give so much thought to things and want to try again in my moments of happiness with her as we hung out post break up, she would end up saying how much she cared about me but could not say we were together. She said one day at a time. Sound advice but please tell me if I'm right here. It peeved her that I was the one who broke things off. This is nothing more than an attempt for her to win  back control over me, have some sex (she asked why can't we just be ourselves and spend time together sometimes) all the while finding someone else out there so she could be the one who left me hardcore probably all of which would happen after getting me to admit fault for everything for her own ego cleansing in the process. That's my betrayed mind concluding her intentions. Is this consistent with what happens in this situation? One thing I did notice, in her previous relationships she said a couple of them the ex's would still try and get her back. On the surface a simple comment that made them sound crazy but in reality I've seen her fear of abandonment in action it's intense. I would be willing to bet there is "overlap" in her relationships where they aren't together so to speak but still spending all kinds of time and having sex together. Then one day she meets someone and poof she's gone. The ex's probably weren't crazy, they were just freaking besides themselves trying to figure out how their sticking around to try and work through things resulted in getting ditched for a new guy just like that. Again, is this my betrayal playing tricks on me or is this consistent with behaviors they have. She will deny all of it. She says she's perfectly able to be alone (why were you putting yourself out there when you weren't even divorced fully?) I think in reality she can't be alone it's a facade, a show of strength and getting me back under her control through sex allows her to buy time to play the field, find a replacement and chalk up a foot note to her history wherein she can say "yeah I left him, we were not good" vs. "I got dumped because the way I treated him, used him and cheated on him multiple times"

[goldylamont]

yup. you summed it up well. she wants to get you back and use you for a while then dump you. take out all her anger about her ex husband, and everyone else she thinks abused her on you. i read some of your previous posts. she's a scary one. you have to stay away. i don't have to tell you since you've said it before.

she can't be trusted. in fact, my bet is that she's already with some other guy. they can't be alone. if you're not the main character in her drama at this point, unfortunately someone else already is. but, pwBPD tend to be greedy so she'll still want to keep you around for convenient abuse/use.

[anxiety5]

Thank you for the reply. Have you been in a situation like that before? I was going to ask you, what are the subtle signs of cheating that you may have experienced. Both behavioral and maybe stuff you saw or noticed. I genuinely feel for the guys who have been worn down to a nub by these psychos for 20, 30 years. I still have a little life in me as this hasn't even been a year. Point being, I made a deal with myself. A pact. In times past it's a promise that I ALWAYS carry out. It's a little trick I play when failure is no option. No matter what the goal, weight loss, or achieving a raise, etc. I set a goal and I will stay up 24 hours as the deadline nears to ensure I don't let myself down. My point, I made a deal with myself that I will NEVER tolerate cheating again. I don't cheat. I never would either. I'm from the old school where BEFORE you cheat, rather than hit the self destruct button you approach your girl and tell her the truth. That you think the relationship is in jeopardy and you are thinking about stuff you should not be. This either would create an instant reaction to the problem and a fix or if it spelled doom at the very least you maintain your integrity by being honest. I realize these concepts are foreign to these people so there's no use in discussing them with her. But I digress, I would love to catch her in the act if she is pulling this over on me. The relationship would end immediately and the level of shame would be so great it would ensure no charming and validate my intuition as well as her character. Any signs you notices would be appreciated.

[goldylamont]

so, technically i don't have any evidence that my ex ever cheated on me. however my level of trust dropped so much that i wouldn't be surprised if this occurred. i was with my ex for 4 years; during our r/s i honestly never ever suspected her of cheating. it wasn't until after our 2nd breakup and me seeing her behavior and subsequent smear campaign, lies, manipulations, etc. that i started realizing that i didn't really know who i was dealing with.

i did deal with something similar though. about 10 months after we broke up, we had what i call about a 1 month 'fake-recycle'. i call it fake since (thank god) there was no sex involved. basically the fake-recycle started with us finally talking again, her seeming to have gained some insights into her behaviors, me asking if she wanted to try things out again, her crying and telling me she couldn't stop thinking about me the whole time we were apart... .she loved me so much... .blah blah all the lies they tell tons of guys when they want something out of you. well, less than 24 hours later after professing her 'love' to me and us agreeing there would be no pressure, but that we would both stop seeing the people we were seeing and give it another go, she tells me she just "wants to try being single". initially i actually understood this and felt kind of the same. i didn't want to jump back into the r/s too fast and wanted to allow some time for us to rebuild some trust and companionship. also i wasn't ready to tell friends or anything, so a test run felt appropriate.

in reality though i think she just spewed all that lovey dovey stuff just so that i would breakup with a cute girl i had been seeing for a few weeks. she just wanted to string me along. her announcement of wanting to be single for a while but also swearing she wanted to work on our r/s, over the course of a month she grew more distant. started lying about her schedule and in general treating me like i was annoying her, even though my behavior was *far* from smothering (i'm not codepenent). so, by week 3 i said if i don't start seeing some progress by the end of week 4 i'm out. i didn't see progress. by week 4 we spoke over the phone. this whole time we never had any arguments or disagreements. i gave her space and we were cordial. but this last week i simply asked her in as non-confrontational way as i could if she was seeing anyone else. i wouldn't fault her for doing so as we weren't officially together but for my own sake it would be good for me to know so i could adjust. of course, this was met by stonewalling and her becoming nasty to me the first time in months. what i find is that when a BPD is nasty often times it has nothing to do with abandonment issues, it's simply that you've figured them out and they are annoyed that you are aware of their dishonesty. i never got an answer from her, she was nasty so i called it quits and we didn't speak for 6 months until she initiated... .

before this final talk with her though, i did do some snooping on her computer and found that she was sending romantic notes to an ex bf of hers who lived overseas. saying she thought about him and wanted to be with him. also, through her roommate months later i found that she started dating her next bf right around the time i stopped talking to her. it's hard to confirm the timeline, but as i see it she started throwing herself at other men very soon after professing her love to me. she probably already started seeing her next bf before we stopped talking. and she was savoring the moment to throw it all in my face. i just was smart and got out before she had the chance, and my calm questions just pissed her off.

your ex has already cheated. and she's not sorry for it (regardless of what she says). i'm not going to tell you it's morally right to snoop and look at phone/text/email messages and such. this is a breach of privacy. but honestly i think you'd more than prove that your gut instincts were right about her if you did.

this whole experience is about learning to trust our gut instincts. if you ignore them, she'll prove that you were right, but it will be on *her* terms while she relishes in abusing you. rather than on your own terms. i just want to give you a heads up. don't wait for her to screw you over. sorry, but the innocent until proven guilty meme just doesn't work with pwBPD. especially when they've already shown how well they lie, manipulate and cheat. save yourself brother.

[anxiety5]

Your insights into the stonewalling and rage she showed for the first time in months actually having to do with being figured out is enlightening. It made me job my memory for those types of conflicts and they always seem to center around a gut instinct I have and her over the top response when I ask her about something. It's almost like they shock you with this blatant attack to shun you into ignoring that topic and to condition you not to bring it up again.

I've heard that BPD's fragile ego can be destroyed by shame. If they cheat and there the type of proof I got when I caught her, there is nothing they can say. This triggers every fear deep within them. It validates all their negative feelings about themselves.

When I broke up with her she wanted to be friends, I told her I couldn't be. That maybe one day but not anytime soon. That I couldn't be her friend until I can know she is with someone else and I don't get emotional in anyway. That is the only way friendship will work following a break up, if you are truly indifferent. She could never respect these boundaries I set. And truth be told, I knew in my mind I couldn't either but I did not tell her that. Instead she began charming and checking in more. And so many times I find myself in her spell after the sex starts. I pulled back after the first time and told her look, if we are going to spend time together, act like a couple and have sex like a couple, I need you to acknowledge that we are working on things, taking them slow but are COMMITTED to one another for now. Or, I said if we are friends, than that's what we are, nothing more. I was right to the point and said, I have no interest in being in some love triangle or being phased out. She then went on a tangent about this, that and the other thing. Some things related, others out of left field. She was trying to pick a fight with me so that she could be the one to pull the plug. Instead, I just sat there confidently looking at her. Listening to her rant but refusing to bite. This drove her mad. And then the proverbial reach out text the NEXT DAY saying, can I see you tonight? It's bizarre. It reminds me of a child asking a parent for something they know they can't have but rather than accepting it they instead just bring it up all over again a few days later spun a little differently.

I was trying to think of red flags. There was definitely overlap from her 2nd relationship ago and her ex. There was the comment about me giving her a chance in the future. Also, she was talkative during sex and the theme was always control with her as the central figure. The stuff that turned her on was disturbing in the sense it was said during times we were dealing with the lack of trust from cheating. She got off on me being with someone else in some phantom distant time and the interaction I'd have with this person as I was flustered and torn between staying in that current relationship or giving in to her attempts to contact me for sex. Kinda cool if you're a random dude with a random chick in your bed. Not cool when you're a distraught betrayed shell of a person who is trying to believe this person is not the very thing that turns them on.

[Chasing_Ghosts]

Scary stuff thats for sure anxiety5. Enough to make any man quiver in fear of these enchanting seductresses true nature. Yet the funny thing is they are so good at hiding it, wearing the mask that by the time we see them for what they are its too late sadly as its been months in to the relationship... And we all know by that point its felt like years in their warped BPD timezone of their fantasy world were sucked into. We also put in so much of our time,efforts,love,heart,and soul... sacrifice so much that we still hold on... of hopes to get a glimpse of the woman we once fell for. But alas she is just an illusion the master magician has contrived in their illicit mirroring act.

Mine wanted to be friends post relationship too the first and second time around. The first time i tried it it was a joke. Shed only ever hang when her replacement for me pissed her off. Talking all about him her as "friend".pshh... .ok. But just like yours treat us like a couple but it was some weird hybrid between couple and friends. Mine at that point said "we should take it slow" an excuse to not have any intimacy as it would trigger her fears/shame. Mine raged at me during this time about my tone but i truly didnt have one it was just that it was her ace in the hole from before post. When i pointed this out calmly she looked at me with a blank look that i equate to a computer having an error... it was truly as if she was stuck in some past argument and at a loss. When id initiate to hang out shed make up some excuse along the lines of "im too tired/sick.","im working over tonight,i promise tomorrow.","your just going to try and get with me.",or "i need space." Laughably enough i caught her in her lies multiple times in that i actually went past her work and either didn't see her car or she sped off in the other direction. This time around i told her about how i didnt think it would work being friends. She responded like a pouty 3 year old and said "Then ill just hate you." Ive yet to make any attempts at hanging out this time around as much as id like to. Hell ive been struggling trying not to invite her to the show we promised to go together to as i just want to have fun and hope that after we can talk. But i know she doesnt have the clarity to truly reveal what my heart desires and just like yours has lied to me habitually in the past proving she cant be trusted and will withhold any truth.

Red flags... oh the red flags. This second time around it was so obvious like blatantly in my face since much of the fog had been lifted after 2 months. She lied about her vacation making up a lie stating that she was not with my replacement but an aunt i know fully well does not exist.(I have evidence refuting all of it to which came more lies and defensiveness) Wouldnt let me go into her work to pick up her her check with her.(started a smear/distortion campaign to the point if i step into that place i might as well have a pitch for and horns with all the glares i get.) Constantly on her phone texting/instant mssging on social media to which i saw it was my replacment and many other exs/"friends" she was speaking to. Basically catching her to admitting to throwing out lines (reading between the lines) to these guys since the replacement triggered her abandonment fears by going on vacation.

But to youre ex and her sexual behaviors yeah no dude wants to hear that ___ when they're trying to be intimate with the one they love. I'm sure she enjoys crushing your reality this way through sexual control. Mine sure did as the last few times she didnt even look at me,flipped over on her side and acted as if was loathsome and baneful to have sex. Trust me i know man sex with these women can be absolute soul binding ecstasy... or destroy the little bit of a soul you have left.