she's hinting at falsely accusing me of child abuse - advice requested

[pilgrim]

I've been divorced several years with 50/50 custody of D12 and D15.  I never remarried or even had a girlfriend after that.  Shortly after my uBPDxw remarried in Nov 2012, my kids started treating me coldly and getting worse to the point they don't want to live with me.

Now ex is threatening to sue for full custody and sent me this email today:

'About full custody, I just wonder why the kids think it is miserable to stay with you.  When I decided to marry (her husband after pilgrim), the thing that I was worried the most was the kids would not want to live with me.  I know the kids love you and they ask me to fight for full custody make me worry.  Abusive relationship can come in many shapes and ways.   Some are very obvious and some are very subtle.   You may not realize it.  Bad things could come from good intention.  If the kids are unhappy to stay with you, should you be concerned?  I think I should get third party opinion such as a psychologist or a social worker from child protecting service."

I'm seeing an attorney who specializes in PAS in a few days and have read Richard Warshak and Amy Baker's books.  Just wondering if anyone with practical experience can advise next steps.

[Hurricanes]

Been in harry situations in the past with my ex-husband his second ex-wife.  Highly doubt that the children are telling your ex that she should get full custody when that doesn't typically exist in a teenagers thoughts or what it means.  My ex's ex played the game and had a better lawyer than he and ended up getting what they wanted.  She would tell the children many things that they have no idea what they meant with being 6 & 9.  Best to consult your lawyer or have guardian ad lien for the children appointed if it does go to court.  Your children are older now and  the court would listen to what is said.  Obviously she is hinting at that abuse is involved if wishing to consult with CPS.  School should be starting soon or already may have in your area.  You could consult the counselor at the school to talk to the children as well.  I personally did this with my son in the past (not for father reasons, but son's own mental health issues). 

[bravhart1]

Without knowing all the details of your family, it's kind of hard to say with any certainty, but from the outside, just based on what you have explained, I'd say that you may actually fare better if you also agreed that a psychologist might be in order. Show her you have nothing to fear from any "truths" coming to light.

To simplify: If therapist says "mom is alientating" dad, and kids need to be in therapy to counteract her influence. Then you and the kids are going to be better for it.

If therapist says "dad has no clue how to parent these kids and is missing stuff", then he/she will probably order "dad/kid" therapy to fix the problems. Better outcome... .

I can't really see a scenario where therapist says ":)ad is a jerk and kids should discontinue a realtionship with him". That would be WAY outside the usual way they handle parental problems. They will try to repair even the most broken parent/child relationship without fail.

In short: she may end up doing you a favor by dredging this stuff up and not get even close to the outcome she thinks she's gonna get.

[Hurricanes]

I do think if an outside party that isn't involved in the conversations with the children to get to the heart of the matter.

She is making allegations and threats that are meant to hurt you.

A counselor, therapist would want the family unit to work together.

A nonfamily member and outside party can see all aspects and looking for the best interest of the children.

They could say that the mother is full of crap if that is the case.

The court isn't going to say that you no longer have custody without series, factual and documented findings.

I wouldn't worry to much about the threat, but would be proactive in findings a therapist.

[catnap]

I think bravhart1 and RNurse are on the right track.  You need to find a T for your children before your ex does. 

Can your L suggest therapists experienced with PAS? 

[pilgrim]

Thanks people,

This will sound counterintuitive and I resisted it, but Dr. Warshak referred me to a PAS expert here who told me therapy with the child does not help PAS.  The kids spend the time rehearsing the scripts they were fed.  Themes get picked and then are used to denigrate the target parent.  The therapist frequently becomes a co-conspirator.  I need to look into this more because I can't fully accept it myself, yet there is a lot of truth in it. 

I guess I was thinking in terms of looking for advice about things I should do now to protect myself from false allegations, at least until I consult with the attorney.

[catnap]

It seems from reading a few of your past posts that the basic issue is that you have seemingly reasonable rules for the kids at your house and Mom is saying the right things, but not really doing them in her own home. 

The only way I can think of is to be ABR (always be recording) when with the girls if it is legal in your state.  Also be recording when you pick them up and drop them off at Mom's house in the event she tries to speak with you. 

I cannot see any T or social worker recommending your ex getting sole custody based on having reasonable behavior expectations.

She is clearly fishing in her email for you to give her anything to work with.  I would not reply until you have met with your attorney. 

[ForeverDad]

I guess I was thinking in terms of looking for advice about things I should do now to protect myself from false allegations, at least until I consult with the attorney.

The only way I can think of is to be ABR (always be recording) when with the girls if it is legal in your state.  Also be recording when you pick them up and drop them off at Mom's house in the event she tries to speak with you.

I cannot see any T or social worker recommending your ex getting sole custody based on having reasonable behavior expectations.

She is clearly fishing in her email for you to give her anything to work with.  I would not reply until you have met with your attorney.

In our collective experience, if it has been contemplated or threatened then, given enough time and opportunity, eventually it will happen and at a time of the other's choosing so it has the worst impact.

Recording at suspect times when your ex is more likely to show her true colors (when she thinks you are vulnerable or in a private setting where she will drop her Mask of Seeming Normalcy) is a valuable form of documentation I call "insurance".  (Some here have worried whether quietly recording - that is, not trying to aggravate the ex by shoving a recorder in ex's face - would create more problems than it resolves.  In my years here only a very few, probably less than a handful, ever had a judge give consequences for recording, and it was just to tell them to stop.  Historically, the court has tried to ignore recordings if they're not needed.  But these days there are so many electronic items that can record it's impractical to block it all.)

That said, if you do record, be very careful not to sound threatening, disrespectful or unreasonable.  You are recording, not for the ex to reason on your words, but for any potential use with evaluators or in court to show that your ex is being threatening or unreasonable, the ex causing problems while you are trying to find solutions.

My lawyer always said that his first duty to his clients was to sit on them to stop them from talking and harming their case.  Be aware that reasoning doesn't work with someone who has BPD or another acting-out PD and is triggered.  Just keep it simple, briefly state your case and let it be, being too wordy can make it easier for you to sabotage yourself.

[scraps66]

I don't know what it's called, a form of projection, or abusive foreshadowing, but I get these types of e-mails from my ex.  When she writes stuff like this it is like she is paraphrasing or letting it be know that these are the very things that she herself is orchestrating, not me.  But accusing me of doing these things.  Saying things like, with me picking the kids up after school instead of her, "... .if you keep them from me they will only be affected negatively... .," translated, "if you don't do as I want I will affect the kids negatively because you will not comply with ME!"

[pilgrim]

I refused to have any personal contact with my ex starting several years ago (thank you bpdfamily!), so all communication has been through email or if urgent, text.  Generally no interaction or visual contact at dropoffs.  So I don't think there's anything for me to record.

I know what you mean about foreshadowing - it's not enough just to hurt you, they want make sure you know it and they get pleasure from rubbing it in your face too.

And projection - everything she's accused me of it turned out she was doing.  Same here.

I think her idea is to brainwash the kids about me and then have them testify they prefer their mom and "we should respect their autonomy."

Waiting to talk to lawyer tomorrow before I communicate with ex.