DD RTC - Continued

[raytamtay3]

I'm considering, just considering, having my DD attend a partial care program instead of these RTCs. Thoughts?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Ray... .I think that is a good idea given your situation. If things go down hill you can revisit RTC... .do you think she will be able to handle being home? Will you be able to cope? I have not always had a good experience with RTC... .I do think partial care is a better option in your case.

[raytamtay3]

I just got off of the phone with her CMO who had a good point. She has not proven to us that she is ready to come home. In the 6 months she has been at this RTC, she's had two good weeks.

We have a meet and greet with a facility called East Mountain Youth Lodge in Bell Meade NJ next week. Of course on their web site it sounds really good, but we shall see when we go there.

[jellibeans]

I am hopeful for you Ray that this next place will be of some help to your dd. 

[raytamtay3]

Me too jellibeans. Me too!

I read so many horror stories on here about some of your children trying to OD, and it's so scary. My DD, in my mind, while not trying to physically OD, I believe is still trying to harm herself by the risky behaviours she takes. She just is not safe at home right now. I'm trying to save her life by any means. But boy do I miss her!

[HealingSpirit]

I read so many horror stories on here about some of your children trying to OD, and it's so scary. My DD, in my mind, while not trying to physically OD, I believe is still trying to harm herself by the risky behaviours she takes. She just is not safe at home right now. I'm trying to save her life by any means. But boy do I miss her!

Thank Heaven your DD hasn't added OD to her self-harm repertoire!  She is already a handful, so count your blessings wherever you can!  I have no experience with RTC versus Partial Care, but I definitely want to hear how it goes and what you decide.  The CM did make a good point that your DD needs to "earn" her way out of there.  But from what you've described, it doesn't sound like it has been appropriate treatment for her to get better, so maybe she is set up to lose there?

This is a tough call and I don't envy your decision.  Let us know what you think of the RTC in Jersey.  I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's a better fit.   

[raytamtay3]

I really need you people today.  DD called last night and was crying which of course makes me feel terrible. Yes HealingSpirit, I do feel she is set up for failure where she currently is.  All the girls want to do there is fight. So my DD is basically fighting for survival right now... .

She was hopeful that she could do partial care.  I was informed by the CM that they will kick kids out for fighting. So if I did put her in there, what happens if she gets kicked out?

On the otherhand, her argument is, that she now knows we aren't bluffing. That if she screws up again, she now knows she would go right back. My DD has always talked a good talk. I try and tell her that that is all well and good, but I am an actions speak louder than words advocate.

Anyway, she was so distraught last night telling me that a couple of the girls that are where she is have been to this  place we are checking out next week and said it's just as bad as far as fighting is concerned. I really don't know what to do.  DH is against bringing her home. I feel completely torn.  This is so hard!

I see all the kids starting school, DS7 included today. My DD should be starting HS. Despite me telling her I am trying to save her life when she says I'm ruining it, part of me believes it now. I can't take this ___ anymore.  :'(

[jellibeans]

Ray

I will tell you that after my dd got out of RTC she did improve... .fear of returning did help her control herself to some degree so it might be worth it. I guess you need to balance the good with the bad... .is having at the place she is now helping or hurting her?

I think partial could be a real step in the right direction... .if she can not attend her partial program without trouble then she needs something long term.

[HealingSpirit]

  DH is against bringing her home. I feel completely torn.  This is so hard!

I see all the kids starting school, DS7 included today. My DD should be starting HS. Despite me telling her I am trying to save her life when she says I'm ruining it, part of me believes it now. I can't take this ___ anymore.  :'(

Oh Ray,

You sound at the end of your rope today.     I'm so sorry!  This really is a tough decision you are making.  No matter what you choose, there will be positive and negative consequences.  One thing I know for sure... .we ALL make the BEST decisions we can with the skills, knowledge, and awareness we have at any given moment.  Since the place she is in isn't working, I would be inclined to find a different setting, if I were in your shoes.

How far away are you from McLean Hospital in Massachusetts? I just finished reading Dr. Blaise Aguirre's book, "BPD in Adolescents."  He is featured on one of the videos on this site, and he seems to "get" BPD and how to reach and help troubled teens.  We live in California, but if we lived on the East Coast, I would look into sending my DD to McLean in a heartbeat, if it were at all possible. 

They have a high success rate of helping teens improve there, and from the way he described the staff support and training requirements, I think it must be a top-notch place.  Well-supported, well-trained, and committed staff are likely to be much more effective than staff in places where they are just doing their job.

WHATEVER you decide, I know you are making the best choice you can for the moment.  All you can do is try something different when what you are currently doing isn't working.

Hang in there!     Sending you more rope!

[raytamtay3]

Ray... .I think that is a good idea given your situation. If things go down hill you can revisit RTC... .do you think she will be able to handle being home? Will you be able to cope? I have not always had a good experience with RTC... .I do think partial care is a better option in your case.

So many things we've tried has failed. In the end, prior to RTC, she refused coming home for in-home therapy. Her therapist at the RTC feels DD is not ready to come home at all.

HealingSpirit - You made me smile with the "sending more rope" comment. That was cute. And very much appreciated.

MA is 5 hours away. A bit too far in my opinion.

[raytamtay3]

Some good news for a change.  I talked to DD’s Case Manager at the RTC. She said for the past couple of weeks, she has seen much progress in DD. She feels she make have finally “broke”.  I am cautiously optimistic about that, but it’s very nice to hear good things for a change.  CM said that there are many youth still taking off in the woods at night, but that DD has not followed suit.  Also said that she seems to choose her words more carefully when speaking to staff whereas as before, she’d tell them off if they said something she didn’t like.

I spoke with DD last night who was in much better spirits.  Sounded very positive.  I told her that if she gives me three consistent months of good behavior, I will appeal to the judge to have her come home. She was very happy about this. Based off of these past few weeks of good behavior without a doubt, she can do it if she puts her mind to it.

She is allowed a day pass for her Birthday Sunday. She asked if she can split the time between her father’s house and mine and I said sure. I asked if she wanted to go someplace special and she said she just wants to come home. I reinforced the fact that she may have her friend come over because it is her Birthday, but that she is not permitted to leave. She said she promises she won’t.  DH was not happy about her coming home for the day. Told me she isn’t ready yet and suppose she runs off. I said well than she won’t be able to come back for home visits for a while again.  The last time she was home was back in April for Easter. We are talking over 5 months ago. I told him there has to come a point where we have to try it again. We cannot just prohibit it and leave it at that. We have to try and start establishing trust again.  My mom said it’s because he is scared and I get that. But she is my child. I want to give her chances when warranted.  If he could have it his way, she’d never come home again.   Anyway, we will see how it goes.  **Fingers crossed**

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

On a different note, my exh is trying to make this visit about him and not DD. He isn't happy about splitting the time. Wants us all to be together. I said this is what DD wants. I really wanted to say it's about what DD wants, not about what he wants but I'm being nice. 

Little history with the ex. She still thinks we ar gonna end up together. Said it in the beginning of divorce that we mind as well just stay together because we'll end up together. Grr... .

[HealingSpirit]

Some good news for a change.  I talked to DD’s Case Manager at the RTC. She said for the past couple of weeks, she has seen much progress in DD. She feels she make have finally “broke”.  I am cautiously optimistic about that, but it’s very nice to hear good things for a change. 

I am so encouraged to hear this today! I'm crossing my fingers and toes with you that she keeps up the positive trend!

[raytamtay3]

DD came home for the day yesterday for her Bday. Her father and I split the time. It was a very nice visit and everything went well. She was very emotional and crying a lot when we went out to dinner saying how she didn't want to go back with "those girls"; I allowed her to bring a friend. She kept having to excuse herself. Then on the ride back she begged and pleaded for me to allow her to do partial care. Saying she promises to follow the rules. Will go to school and straight to partial care. I really don't know what to do anymore. The CM said that I can do partial care but that I have to do it on my own. But did say if it failed, they'd be able to step back in and get her replaced in an RTC. I really need some advice right now.

She looked so beautiful. She is stunning. She talks so a good talk. Keeps saying she now knows we aren't bluffing when we say we are going to do something. Do I try the partial care? And if I do, how to I convince DH? I do not think he will like the idea and I fear he will really go off.

[raytamtay3]

I'm thinking maybe giving her an incentive. Give me the next three months (it's a 9 - 12 month program) to prove to me that you are ready to come home and you can come home by Xmas. I know she isn't going to like that. Keeps saying she can't do it there because the girls egg her on and she can't back down. But I need proof. She needs to show me she can do it. Don't you all agree? And she has made progress. The CM there told me she hasn't ran with the others, seems to hold back her mouth, etc. Also, she was folding her clothes and putting them away when she came home!     So she has picked that up. . Do I let her stay and finish out the program or move her? We are due for the meet and greet tomorrow at the other place. She said the RTC CM where she is said she'd consider letting her stay over night because she also has court the next day so it'd be a lot of back and forth for me. Even if we decide not to move her, I still may do this if allowed.  Another chance to prove she can be home... .

[HealingSpirit]

I can sure understand why you need proof that she can handle coming home. And I feel how torn you are, wanting to bring her home, but not wanting to risk it until she is well enough to handle it.

I can't help but wonder if there is some way to ease into coming back home. I'm sure 3 months must sound like eternity to your DD. She was only home for 1 day. Is there a way for her to earn more visits home between now and December? Maybe a lot of short visits hime would help you earn her trust back and give her a more immediate sense of gratification for her good behavior?

My DD has never been to an RTC, so I am afraid I don't know the visitation rules, or how that works.  But it seems like having 1 successful visit isn't quite enough to ensure her success in coming home and doing partial care.  I think I would want to experience at least a few more successful visits home before I'd be ready to have her back.

I hope others here have practical knowledge and advice for you.  This is such a tough decision!

[raytamtay3]

I can sure understand why you need proof that she can handle coming home. And I feel how torn you are, wanting to bring her home, but not wanting to risk it until she is well enough to handle it.

I can't help but wonder if there is some way to ease into coming back home. I'm sure 3 months must sound like eternity to your DD. She was only home for 1 day. Is there a way for her to earn more visits home between now and December? Maybe a lot of short visits hime would help you earn her trust back and give her a more immediate sense of gratification for her good behavior?

My DD has never been to an RTC, so I am afraid I don't know the visitation rules, or how that works.  But it seems like having 1 successful visit isn't quite enough to ensure her success in coming home and doing partial care.  I think I would want to experience at least a few more successful visits home before I'd be ready to have her back.

I hope others here have practical knowledge and advice for you.  This is such a tough decision!

They have to "make status" and then "become global" after so many to able to have visits.  In the 6 months she has been away, she has been home twice. The first time being back in Easter shortly after she started and wasn't even ready to come home which was a huge fail, and yesterday. She said it's hard to make status. That they make it too hard. I find that hard to believe really. She made status the past couple of weeks. So she CAN do it.

[jellibeans]

Ray

I just think you need to do what you feel is right. Your final decision should be from love not fear. You have to live with the choices but I really don't think there is a wrong or right here. I agree with HealingS that three months is a long time. Kids like ours have a hard time with that kind of stress. If you believe the place she is at is doing good for her then keep her there but honestly I feel it is worth giving her a chance.

When my dd was release from RTC she was on her best behavior... .she was very fearful of going back and to this day I see feel her anxiety over her stay there. I am not sure her stay at RTC did her any good... .at most it let her know that we were serious and that if we felt she could not be safe at home then RTC is where she needed to be. I do think in Valerie Porr's book she talks about RTC... .she really wasn't a firm supporter of RTc or wilderness programs. I truly feel that a lot of the change needs to come from us the parents.

I have talked to my dd doctor and I really beleive in time she will mature and her frontal lobe will mature too and then and only then will we see some real improvements and stability. In the meantime we just need to get through the teen years. Having her come home would mean stress on you... .are you ready for that? What have or will you do to prepare? Having a behavior plan for her return is a must... .will she attend school? will you home school her?

When my dd got out of RTC it was the beginning of summer and she had time to recover and adjust back to our home. I think RTC is really hard on these kids and I am not sure they are necessary... .I really feel it is more of a safety issue. If your dd is suicidal and is unsafe at home then RTC is a good place to keep them safe.

I think also when they come home they appreciate more and realize how fortunate they are... .they are less of a princess... .at least at first. I certainly think that coming home should be solidly based on her attending T sessions and taking meds etc... .if she is unable to actively take part in improving then I am not sure bringing her would be helpful.

Have you thought about foster care... .maybe her release is first to a foster care home and then slowly reintroduce her home? I am only throwing out suggestions. The choice is yours Ray... .no one can do that for you but either way you are in a tough spot... .don't let fear guide you in this decision. Please take care of yourself.

[raytamtay3]

Jelli - We tried every other avenue to prevent out of home placement. In the end she was taking off for days, having sex with countless men who she didn't even know, not following house rules, not participating in therapy, missing probation appointments and doing drugs, constantly getting suspended from school where I was on the verge of losing my job having to keep leaving to pick her up.  I don't have the luxary of home schooling her.

She had many an opportunity to not let it get to the RTC route after I kept warning her that if I could not control her and her father could not control her, the state is going to have to come in to control her. How is sending her to a foster home going to be any better? I hear just as many horror stories about foster homes as RTCs. Yeah 3 months IS a long time for a child. But she got herself in to this mess. She may not be suidical but she was on the road to becoming a statistic anyway and that's what I am trying to avoid.

[HealingSpirit]

Ray,

What I'm hearing if I read between the lines is that you are not ready to have her home yet. That is ok! Your well-being and the rest of your family's well-being is part of the picture that needs to be considered.  Am I correct in guessing that you are feeling anguish and guilt about needing her to stay? If my "mind-reading" is correct, could your own fears or guilt be what is leading you to take her back home too early? 

Like Jellibeans said, don't let fear guide your decision. There are no right or wrong answers. Whatever choice you make today can be a different choice tomorrow. You have to do what is best for everyone concerned. Only you know what is right for your family on any given day.

Big HUG to you! 

[raytamtay3]

The RTC allowed dd to come home today overnight since we had a meet and greet at the other rtc, and court tomorrow morning. We r home as I type and dd is badgering me about letting her go out. I told her she could have a friend over and again not good enough. So she isnot talking to me and hinting she is gonna go out anyway. If she does its gonna be a very long time before i allow her back. I will keep u posted. Wish me luck.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mama72]

Good luck, ray. Hope your night is uneventful.

[raytamtay3]

Welp she snuck out. I am beyond pissed.

[GaGrl]

Have her picked up and let her spend the night detained til court.

[mama72]

So sorry, ray. Do you have a plan of what you are going to do?

[raytamtay3]

Well I called the case manger at the rtc to let her know and Im telling her probation officer tomorrow. Really nothing else I CAN do.

[raytamtay3]

Have her picked up and let her spend the night detained til court.

They dont do that around here.

[HealingSpirit]

Welp she snuck out. I am beyond pissed.

I'd be pissed too. AND disappointed. However, it occurs to me this ends your dilemma about whether or not you can trust bringing her hime early. I'm so sorry, Ray!

[jellibeans]

Ray

How is everything today? Did your dd return home? It never eases to amaze me how they will alway pick the path of destruction. It really was so much more important for her to do what she wanted rather than abide by the rules of her visit.

[SeaSprite]

Ugh, I'm so sorry.

It's so hard when they seem so determined to be their own worst enemy.

I know it sounds terrible, but sometimes I'm glad to be angry at my d, it is a nice break from feeling sad and guilty and worried.



Good luck, I hope you and she get the help you need.