How long were their traits dormant?

[Penumbra66]

While I feel that I was still in the idealization phase up until my replacement came along, there were a number of red flags that I minimized. However, her absolute worst behavior began immediately after befriending the man she would soon leave me for, with whom she took drugs with the very first time they hung out. She is in addict who had been in recovery for two years. Here is an abbreviated timeline of our history.

For me, and supposedly for her as well, it was love at first sight. We enjoyed each other's company so much that our second date stretched out over the course of two days. We began spending as much time together as possible, which worked out to about four or five days a week, including overnights together. The first three or four months were absolutely amazing for me, as I was having the time of my life. We exchanged "I love you"s sometime during this phase.

After about eight months, her neediness and desire for non-stop attention began to drive me crazy. She became incredibly moody, depressed and anxious, and while I tried to cheer her up, her non-stop desire to talk about her internal mental state was too much for me. She spoke about her past addictions, psychotic experiences she had, her depression and anxiety, and even what she thought may have been a touch of schizophrenia. She wasn't very healthy, and these discussions were not healthy for me either. While she had a psychiatrist, she had a hard time getting into therapy with a qualified therapist. It was sometimes so stressful to be around her, that I considered breaking up. Still, she never seemed overtly cruel.

What was surprising was that around the 10 month point in our relationship, in January of this year, her mood began to slowly improve. Her neediness began to slowly wain. She was becoming far more responsible and independent. Schoolwork and her volunteer internship became more important to her, and as she became more fully engaged, everything about her seemed to change for the better. By around June of this year, I was enjoying her company more and more. I became comfortable enough in our relationship that I would even consider traveling with her. Earlier in our relationship, she was sometimes such a burden that I felt compelled to get away from her for a day or two to decompress. The day before she went out with the guy who would become my replacement, I remember realizing that we had two really good weeks in a row. I remember thinking, only half jokingly, I not only love her, I actually like her. 

My replacement was a married graduate student who had taught one of her classes that had ended just a week or two earlier. He was so nerdy and dorky that she insisted I had nothing to be jealous of this new "friend." Unfortunately, I had no idea how serious her drug addiction was, because at that point she had had about two years in recovery. Their very first "play date" consisted of getting high together. I was absolutely appalled, because she had often spoken of the dangers of her addiction. Her entire family was addicted to drugs and alcohol, and she constantly told me that she did not want to end up like them. Unfortunately, that kicked off not only the affair, but lead back to daily drug use.

What was so terrifying to me about this whole time was that her personality changed completely. She didn't act stoned or impaired in any way, but her style of speaking, her moods, her interests, and even the way she gestured with her hands and carried her body became dramatically different. I swear she felt like a total stranger to me. It was during this on-again, off-again affair that the whole push pull thing with me started. At first, she decided that she didn't want him in her life even as a friend, because he was so negative that she felt he had given up on almost everything in his life. Of course four days later they were having an affair that lasted only a couple of days. Then it was back to me for two days, and then she flat out told me she wanted to continue to see him. That lasted five days, until he dumped her to work on his marriage. Then back to me for a couple of weeks, while she continued to hide the affair behind my back. The worst part of all of this push/pull was that I had no idea where I stood or what was really happening. Her words--that she desire to be with me – and her actions did not synch. She could be incredibly warm and sexual towards me, and then turn things off completely. When we discussed things, she seemed so incredibly cold and callous that I mostly sat stunned. How could she seem so completely un caring towards me? She said things about me, about him, about our relationships that cut me to the bone. Again, it was almost like a person I'd never even met, reading a postmortem of our relationship.

You've heard the saying that he who cares the least in a relationship holds all the power, right? She was so needy that I always assumed the one with the power was me. But now, I was so incredibly weak and desperate and confused that any morsel of attention given to me felt heaven sent. The last three times we had sex was the best we probably ever had. And the sex had been getting better and better all year prior to that point! Certainly, I thought, we would be able to work this out. I mean the sex! But ultimately there was something so incredibly vacant about her at other times that she seemed to have had her soul removed. I often felt no physical or emotional closeness to her, and at times she acted barely aware of my presence. By the time I realized that their affair had continued, she ended our relationship so surgically, that I felt not a single ounce of care or empathy from her. It was almost like she was choosing members for a softball team, and I was out, just like that.

I am wondering if other members of this form have had similar situations. How do you go from what seems like a reasonably good relationship--in my case the best it had ever been – to completely done, over, finished, with barely a glance back. Before the last few weeks of our relationship, I had always felt very highly valued. There seemed to be no prior instances of splitting, or rages, or other destructive aspects of BPD. We were spending more time together with less drama than ever before. Certainly the drugs were an influence here, and I feel relatively confident that she had always possessed at least some symptoms of BPD, but she seemed so completely strange and alien to me so suddenly that its still shocking.

Don't most BPDs have a prior history of terrible behavior within a relationship? She was a mostly kind, if prickly, Dr. Jekyll (with some depression, anxiety, neediness and mood swings) for a year and a half, and then one day, an evil, callous, and cruel Mr. Hyde, tossing me the occasional crumbs of affection over the next four weeks while abusing me emotionally.

I've never experienced anything like this.

[Infern0]

For me the day the heavens fell and I realized something was drastically wrong was when she called me and said that God had appeared to her and was going to lead her into the light or some sort of random nonsense like that. She sounded like a brainwashed fanatic and suddenly nothing else mattered anymore apart from God's plan for her. Our plans were thrown out for "I'll do what God guides me to do" and she was saying how happy and full of joy she was and all her problems were gone. It was baffling,  I was blindly trying to support her but deep down inside of me I knew something very odd was going on. Of course a few days later she didn't give a crap about God anymore,  I guess he got devalued.  And she went back to being a depressed mess.

But yeah that was when I went from thinking everything could work out to some sort of penny dropping.

Of course I still hung in getting absolutely destroyed for a few more weeks until the nuclear bomb wiped me out

[Infern0]

Sorry tried to edit the above post but cloned it. Can a mod delete it?

For me the day the heavens fell and I realized something was drastically wrong was after around 3 months, my bull___ detector was going off since day 1 tbh but i was ignoring it and couldnt figure everything out fully. Its funny because looking back i was texting my best friend about her and saying i thought she was really damaged but not sure. Those concerns then fell away as we got clise

Then after 3 months she called me and said that God had appeared to her and was going to lead her into the light or some sort of random nonsense like that. She sounded like a brainwashed fanatic and suddenly nothing else mattered anymore apart from God's plan for her. Our plans were thrown out for "I'll do what God guides me to do" and she was saying how happy and full of joy she was and all her problems were gone. It was baffling,  I was blindly trying to support her but deep down inside of me I knew something very odd was going on. Of course a few days later she didn't give a crap about God anymore,  I guess he got devalued.  And she went back to being a depressed mess.

But yeah that was when I went from thinking everything could work out to some sort of penny dropping.

Of course I still hung in getting absolutely destroyed for a few more weeks until the nuclear bomb wiped me out

[ReluctantSurvivor]

I was with my exgfBPD for 25 months.  The first 6 months were great but in retrospect there were red flags early on.  When we first met I had roomates and she moved in shorl

tly after.  I ended up white knighting her in as she was leaving a violent environment with her son's father.  Her first mood swings were surgically directed at a scumbbag roommate so it went unnoticed.  For the next year and a half she could direct most of her rage towards the custody battle over her son.  There were some episodes I wrote off as stress that stand out now.  There were times when out in public that she would snap and storm out of stores. Once it was because she couldnt find pants that fit(underlying body image issues), another time she stormed out of a store leaving me with her son because people were on the same aisle(it was xmas, what the heck over).

Overall I consider her to be a high functioning quiet BPD.  The first and last major outburst occured 25 months in.  Up until that point we were planning a wedding, nest building with major houseware purchases and planning vacations.  Suddenly without any obvious provocation she quit speaking to me for two weeks.  She also stopped eating for this time.  If spoken to she was hostile and would leave the room or put on headphones and text message/facebook rather than speaking to me.  At the end of the two weeks she finally exploded (she was forced to talk to me over a broken car that I had been unable to assist with thanks to her silent games).  She snapped, telling me she hated me, hated even the sight of me and proceeded to list every slight she had percieved in two years.

Three weeks after this she started spending everynight with a new guy from facebook after one date.

So there were a few cracks in her mask but it took two years for something unforgivable to surface.

[Penumbra66]

For me the day the heavens fell and I realized something was drastically wrong was when she called me and said that God had appeared to her and was going to lead her into the light or some sort of random nonsense like that. She sounded like a brainwashed fanatic and suddenly nothing else mattered anymore apart from God's plan for her. Our plans were thrown out for "I'll do what God guides me to do" and she was saying how happy and full of joy she was and all her problems were gone. It was baffling,  I was blindly trying to support her but deep down inside of me I knew something very odd was going on. Of course a few days later she didn't give a crap about God anymore,  I guess he got devalued.  And she went back to being a depressed mess.

But yeah that was when I went from thinking everything could work out to some sort of penny dropping.

Of course I still hung in getting absolutely destroyed for a few more weeks until the nuclear bomb wiped me out

What scared me so much in my case was that my ex always seemed totally sincere for the entire time I knew her, right up and including the very end. She is a smart girl, and as "off" as she sometimes was, she always seemed completely rational, if a bit neurotic.

My idealization phase lasted for nearly a year and a half, and I think I trusted her quite a bit more at that point that I had even six months earlier. Even when she was irritating – which was often frankly – I always got this almost overwhelming sense of honesty. In fact when her initial "friendship" veered into an emotional affair with a former instructor, she reacted with genuine naïveté that such a thing could ever happen, let alone to honest, trustworthy, loyal little her. After she supposedly ended the emotional affair she told me that she had never even heard of such a thing until she found her self actually in one. She reminded me that our relationship was the longest she's ever had, and thus didn't understand the pitfalls of a committed, long term relationship. And she was sincere.

In the second stage of the affair, the physical stage, she flat out told me that she intended to pursue a relationship with my replacement. While it took nearly an hour of heated conversation before she came out and said this, when she finally did, I was shocked by her lack of empathy. I was in a program to treat major depression at the time, brought on by her initial unwillingness to end the emotional affair. This seemed to concern her not at all. But again, she was sincere in her desires.

We reunited after the second stage, trying to repair our relationship, and it was during the reconciliation that she became completely unreliable. Her feelings about commitment, about our relationship, about me were increasingly unstable, but her shocking lack of empathy could be hidden no longer. While it was obvious that she was struggling to figure things out for herself, she clearly had no concerns for my well being here, and my self-esteem continued to crumble. It was during this stage that I later uncovered out right lies and deceit. When the relationship finally ended after discovering that her affair continued, I tried to understand how she could do such a thing to me. She had a very long list of rationalizations, all of which benefited her and only her. Total rational self interest. This was the point at which I was certain that she had no conscience whatsoever. She made no attempt to factor my feelings, my health, my sanity into her decision. In fact, she made almost no attempt to hide her selfishness, even in an effort to make me feel better. I felt like I was being circled by a shark. I've never seen anything even remotely like this in my life, especially from someone that until very recently I had trusted fully.

We had one follow-up call and two chatting sessions in the last seven weeks, and here I was even more shocked by her seeming lack of remorse. The justifications became even more self-centered. It was her shocking lack of morality, in fact a lack of even a pretense of morality, that simply destroyed me. There was not even a single instance where she tried to protect me from harm, apologize, or even provide comfort for what she had done. It was like watching an automaton in motion, nothing more than preprogrammed settings in the gears and levers. No soul, no guilt, no humanity. I've never felt such unrelenting terror, despair, and devastation in my entire life.

[freedom33]

First 2 months things were good. There were many red flags but there was so much dopamine in my brain that I disregarded all of them. We travelled and spent a lot of time together.

Then one day I was a bit annoyed we were supposed to go for dinner after work and she stood me up. I didn't say anything but I was a bit upset when she showed up - not my usual enthusiastic and all over her self. She wasn't saying anything either but she did notice and pretended all was ok. I realised it is not a big thing to argue about. However just pretending that everything was ok was making things even worse for me.

I needed a moment to calm down so while we were walking asked her to sit on a bench for a few minutes. I just wanted to take a few deep breaths and relax. Then suddenly she said that she can't stand my mood (I think largely she was projecting her moods onto me), and that next time I had a mood like this she would leave. This triggered my abandonment fears, I said what kind of friend are you if when I kindly ask you to sit next to me while I am feeling a bit low and you are saying that you will leave?. She said it's not her problem and she's got to take care of herself and that this is too much for her. And I responded 'well, that's not good enough'. This triggered a massive meltdown for her.

She started screaming, crying, yelling and eventually lying down on the grass by the pavement.  I couldn't believe my eyes. When she came back to reality after 20 minute of borderline psychosis. She took ownership for the first and last time - she said I don't know what I am going to do... .I can't hold anything inside (meaning controlling her feelings), and kept crying. So from a position where I needed her to sit next to me now I was put into a position of taking care of HER. I realise that this is one of the ways I built resentment over time. It was always about her. My feelings didn't count. When I had an issue with her behaviour it would be turned around against me somehow and I 'd be put in a position to take care of her. And slowly I was trained through intermittent reinforcement, how to not have issues at all. I resigned myself from all expectations for equality and reciprocity in the rs.

[Penumbra66]

She started screaming, crying, yelling and eventually lying down on the grass by the pavement.  I couldn't believe my eyes. When she came back to reality after 20 minute of borderline psychosis. She took ownership for the first and last time - she said I don't know what I am going to do... .I can't hold anything inside (meaning controlling her feelings), and kept crying. So from a position where I needed someone to sit next to me and help me now I was put into a position of taking care of HER. I realise that this is one of the ways I built resentment over time. When I had an issue with her behaviour it would be turned around against me somehow and I 'd be put in a position to take care of her. And slowly I was trained through intermittent reinforcement, how to not have issues at all. I resigned myself from all expectations for equality and reciprocity in the rs.

I have come to this realization a bit before the affair: if I suffered through any major traumas, I knew to limit my expectations of support. She had indicated a few problems with empathy, and I suspected her of having Aspeger Syndrome. Still, she seemed to have a basic sense of decency and loyalty. Her career aspirations included working with the poor and disadvantaged, as she had grown up in a dysfunctional family with chronic unemployment and poverty. But like you, she could turn right around and put the attention back on her.

She had been having an emotional affair with my eventual replacement, and I was expressing to her my hurt during this discussion after the affair had supposedly ended. I wasn't angry during this discussion, but was still feeling devastated by everything that had occurred. At one point, she said "you are not the only one going through this" and as always, everything turned around and I began comforting her! Of course five days later they began a physical affair.

Unlike you, I was never witness to any psychosis, but she had a special talent of somehow always being the victim. After I discovered that the affair had continued, she abandoned me for my replacement, coldly, casually, and with little care at all. I told her that I was devastated by literally weeks of lying, and convincing me to trust her that our relationship was the one she wanted. But even through my tears, she kept telling me that I wasn't willing to understand things from her point of view, which basically included the fact that she had "fallen" for someone else, had made this "deep" connection that she felt "compelled" her to follow through, even though it was destroying our relationship, as well as his marriage. Apparently, I didn't realize how important this was to her, and she didn't understand how I could be so selfish to oppose her from the "miracle" of their connection. This while telling me she "really did love me" and couldn't picture me not being in her life.

[Infern0]

Yeah the absolute worst thing you can do is admit that they are hurting you. After she'd chewed me up and spat me out I went into deep depression,  she convinced me that "she would help me" even though she caused it! Like a Crack addict I went along to one of these perverted counselling sessions as she told me I had nothing to be depressed about,  and that I was selfish and that I should be her friend and make her laugh. All the while with this odd sort of half smile.  I also remember she looked bad, like for the first time I had ever seen her not taking care of herself. I told her I was concerned about her erratic behaviour and could SEE that something was wrong. And she told me she was fine and dandy (she's NEVER fine)

I walked out of that horrifying meeting about 100 times worse than I went in.

Never go to them with your problems. They can only amplify them.

[freedom33]

Yeah. Going back to them for consolation when they are the cause of your pain in the first place is like doubly betraying yourself. The beginning of a trauma bond.

The funny thing with me is that I can't remember showing vulnerability like this to other girls before her. Maybe I didn't risk with the other women in that I could have actually gotten what I really wanted ie.  a deeper emotional connection. Instead I went with the safe failure bet. Something to talk with my therapist.

[fred6]

Never go to them with your problems. They can only amplify them.

Listen to this, it is accurate. I been trying to have talks with my exBPD and trying to let her know how this is affecting me. She don't give a damn, and if she does, she has it buried so deep inside that it's not ever getting out. Every time I talk to her about "things", I come out of it worse and on the verge of tears.

[RisingSun]

But even through my tears, she kept telling me that I wasn't willing to understand things from her point of view, which basically included the fact that she had "fallen" for someone else, had made this "deep" connection that she felt "compelled" her to follow through, even though it was destroying our relationship, as well as his marriage. Apparently, I didn't realize how important this was to her, and she didn't understand how I could be so selfish to oppose her from the "miracle" of their connection. This while telling me she "really did love me" and couldn't picture me not being in her life.

Man, your situation so closely fits mine. It's like the Twilight Zone. I got fed the same line of bull from by ex when she left our marriage in exchange for the replacement.

How dare I not allow her to follow her feelings. She would say "if you would only allow yourself to understand and accept how rare, deep, amazing and special my connection

with OM is". To her I was the one who needed to do the "inner work" so I could accept her compulsion to have an affair. She thought her "love" for OM makes it ok to have an affair.

Like "love" was her, get out of jail free card. All the while she was telling me "I don't think I can live without you, I love you so much".

Come to realize, she was just trying to keep me around long enough to make sure things were going to work out with OM. When I came to this devastating realization I got out.

No way was I going to be demoted to doormat. She deeply resented this and filed for divorce before I could catch my breath. She blame shifted, projected and painted me black for daring to stand up for myself.

[Caredverymuch]

But even through my tears, she kept telling me that I wasn't willing to understand things from her point of view, which basically included the fact that she had "fallen" for someone else, had made this "deep" connection that she felt "compelled" her to follow through, even though it was destroying our relationship, as well as his marriage. Apparently, I didn't realize how important this was to her, and she didn't understand how I could be so selfish to oppose her from the "miracle" of their connection. This while telling me she "really did love me" and couldn't picture me not being in her life.

Man, your situation so closely fits mine. It's like the Twilight Zone. I got fed the same line of bull from by ex when she left our marriage in exchange for the replacement.

How dare I not allow her to follow her feelings. She would say "if you would only allow yourself to understand and accept how rare, deep, amazing and special my connection

with OM is". To her I was the one who needed to do the "inner work" so I could accept her compulsion to have an affair. She thought her "love" for OM makes it ok to have an affair.

Like "love" was her, get out of jail free card. All the while she was telling me "I don't think I can live without you, I love you so much".

Come to realize, she was just trying to keep me around long enough to make sure things were going to work out with OM. When I came to this devastating realization I got out.

No way was I going to be demoted to doormat. She deeply resented this and filed for divorce before I could catch my breath. She blame shifted, projected and painted me black for daring to stand up for myself.

Minus a very differing details my situation was much the same. I heard those same exact words. While I wept so greatly that tears soaked the length of my body and hit the floor. The cold self centeredness, as if it were so reasonable to understand that he could " love" two ppl at once.  He was sure he wanted me to remain in his life in someway though he had to work on his other r/s now.  How could I not understand this and want whats best? Looking at me with zero compassion for the shattered emotion I was displaying silently weeping in a way I had never known one could.  My heart just breaking in a way I could almost touch it. An attack so great on my heart. 

That was quite traumatic.  As it should be to a person who is not disordered.  And who genuinely knows love.

[Penumbra66]

But even through my tears, she kept telling me that I wasn't willing to understand things from her point of view, which basically included the fact that she had "fallen" for someone else, had made this "deep" connection that she felt "compelled" her to follow through, even though it was destroying our relationship, as well as his marriage. Apparently, I didn't realize how important this was to her, and she didn't understand how I could be so selfish to oppose her from the "miracle" of their connection. This while telling me she "really did love me" and couldn't picture me not being in her life.

Man, your situation so closely fits mine. It's like the Twilight Zone. I got fed the same line of bull from by ex when she left our marriage in exchange for the replacement.

How dare I not allow her to follow her feelings. She would say "if you would only allow yourself to understand and accept how rare, deep, amazing and special my connection

with OM is". To her I was the one who needed to do the "inner work" so I could accept her compulsion to have an affair. She thought her "love" for OM makes it ok to have an affair.

Like "love" was her, get out of jail free card. All the while she was telling me "I don't think I can live without you, I love you so much".

Come to realize, she was just trying to keep me around long enough to make sure things were going to work out with OM. When I came to this devastating realization I got out.

No way was I going to be demoted to doormat. She deeply resented this and filed for divorce before I could catch my breath. She blame shifted, projected and painted me black for daring to stand up for myself.

Love as their get out of jail free card, indeed. I tried to explain that during any relationship, there would be attracive others in your life, and that crushes were inevitable. But why would you end a decent relationship because you had a crush on someone else? Is it really worth throwing away a relationship when you supposedly love your partner "so, so much" and can't picture living without them?

Her answer: "but what if they like you back?"

So that's it. It's understanable to destroy your long-term relationship to be with the married guy you barely know, because... .he likes her back. That was where her logic was. Out with the old, in with the new. I have a feeling she'll be repeating this the rest of her life.

My ex gf also told me that holding on to past hurt from an earlier relationship that also ended in betrayal was "not healthy. You need to find a better way of letting go." She might have been right about that, but it wasn't something I wanted to hear three days after leaving me for my replacement.

She suggested Buddhism to help me accept the "transience of human relationships." That felt like a mugger leaving me with a copy of "When Bad Things Happen To Good People" after stabbing me.

[Penumbra66]

Minus a very differing details my situation was much the same. I heard those same exact words. While I wept so greatly that tears soaked the length of my body and hit the floor. The cold self centeredness, as if it were so reasonable to understand that he could " love" two ppl at once.  He was sure he wanted me to remain in his life in someway though he had to work on his other r/s now.  How could I not understand this and want whats best? Looking at me with zero compassion for the shattered emotion I was displaying silently weeping in a way I had never known one could.  My heart just breaking in a way I could almost touch it. An attack so great on my heart. 

That was quite traumatic.  As it should be to a person who is not disordered.  And who genuinely knows love.

Mine also told me that "it is possible to love two people at the same time," that her heart was big enough for both of us, that love was not all or nothing. She was just doing what her "spirit" needed, which was to live her life, to make mistakes, to "grow." I was still important to her, and she wanted me in her life, "just not romantically." I was, however, expected to accept what was best for her, which was being in a new relationship.

She told me over and over again that our relationship was mostly good, and that she was mostly happy. She said she would have never left me, but... ."this" happened. But who knows, us being soulmates and all, maybe one day... .

The ex had already left me for him once. She came back because he wanted to try to save his marriage, and she told me that she had made a "huge" mistake. So she hung on to me for another three weeks until he finally agreed to leave his wife.

Yes, a person who knows love would never have done these things, would never have said these things. But at the time, I hadn't realized that she was a disordered person, and the confusion of it all was just too much for me. Her thinking was so absolutely bizzarre and amoral that her words left me in shock. Not a single shred of empathy, compassion, or care. This may have been the first time in my entire life that I felt absolute terror by being in another's presence. What WOULDN'T she do to get what she wanted?

[honeysuckle]

Wow. The last few posts were also my story. It happens to me a lot on this site. I also makes me very sad. Remembering how crushed I was as he stood there explaining his need to go but loved me.

So anyone know... .did any of the relationships they HAD to have work out?