Has to point out we're not together

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My ex and I were together for four years, however we were friends for three years before this. We have a two year old son, lets just say she isn't the best mother in the world and has spend only 4 weeks out of 19 with her son. Leaving her at his parents.

She is in the last year of med school and has been in Tanzania working in a hospital for three weeks, returning in a week.

We have recycled twice already with mini break ups all the way through. Since we broke up in May she has had sex and mini relationships with two men. She went on holiday to Spain with a man she had only met ONCE for two hours previously!

Before she left for Africa I drove her to get injections and spent the day together as a family. We ended up have very intimate sex!

Since she's been away she tells me she loves me, misses me and cant wait to see me. Messaging me every day. She wants to have sex with me on her return and spend time with me.

She keeps asking "are you behaving?" as in are you dating! She then said "I don't like to share"

I joked around with her last night and said "will you leave me for a doctor when you're a successful surgeon" she replied "can can I leave you for a doctor when I'm not with you"

She loves me, misses me, wants sex with me and wants to spend time as a family together. BUT she has to point out we're not together

What the heck is that all about?

She says she wants to work together as friends and see what happens. Whats does that mean?

[londonD]

My ex and I were together for four years, however we were friends for three years before this. We have a two year old son, lets just say she isn't the best mother in the world and has spend only 4 weeks out of 19 with her son. Leaving her at his parents.

She is in the last year of med school and has been in Tanzania working in a hospital for three weeks, returning in a week.

We have recycled twice already with mini break ups all the way through. Since we broke up in May she has had sex and mini relationships with two men. She went on holiday to Spain with a man she had only met ONCE for two hours previously!

Before she left for Africa I drove her to get injections and spent the day together as a family. We ended up have very intimate sex!

Since she's been away she tells me she loves me, misses me and cant wait to see me. Messaging me every day. She wants to have sex with me on her return and spend time with me.

She keeps asking "are you behaving?" as in are you dating! She then said "I don't like to share"

I joked around with her last night and said "will you leave me for a doctor when you're a successful surgeon" she replied "can can I leave you for a doctor when I'm not with you"

She loves me, misses me, wants sex with me and wants to spend time as a family together. BUT she has to point out we're not together

What the heck is that all about?

She says she wants to work together as friends and see what happens. Whats does that mean?

[mitchell16]

in my opinion she wants her cake and eat it too. Mine used to pull this stuff and I felt like it wa sto keep me hooked in teh relationship but she could do whatever she wanted with teh built in excuse of  wea rent togther so it not cheating. she wants to keep you there for her comfort but she also leaving herself room to explore. Just my opinion based on my own experience.

[Haye]

Phew, it sounds like a mess  :'(

In my opinion your first priority is your son and making sure you do not break in that emotional rollercoaster. Have you read the lessons in boundaries and are familiar with the basic stuff? I found them very insightful.

It might be as Mitchell said, or it might be something else. Predicting someones mind, specially if BPD is involved, not easy... .

Let me explain briefly. I've had my share of recylcling previously when my now SO, back then my "something"  (a roommate, FwB, collegue, lover) found new girlies (online) and met them, sometimes for sex, sometimes having a crush on them. Most of the time i was told "i'm monogamous with this new girl", or something like that.  I felt like the backup, someone to fall back to when these new business go sour. Eventually, I drew a line and informed him that he is again free to go but I'm not going to take him back if/when he returns, especially not physical ever again. He didn't understand why i felt rejected on dumbed because in his mind he loved and somehow the stuff on being only with the other girl and not me wasn't a factor. (this was prior him getting diagnosed)

Lot of things happended and i learnt a lot, some of it later.

He honestly didn't understand that to most people love and intimate sex are too close to tell them apart, that you cannot say "i'm intimate only with her, but i still consider you as my girlfriend, only the girl i'm having sex doesn't know it and thinks i love her).

He still claims that never ever he took me (and my love etc) for granted though that's how it felt and looked to outsiders as well.

He had always felt that nobody can truly love him. which caused him not to be what he was but act as people seemed to want him to.

He has issues with attachment, huge issues and slowly developing something like love and attachment (to me) took their toll on him. He basically ran away from the closeness. After a time I realized that getting close to him emotionally seemed to cause dissociation - i wasn't 100% sure of it, as the change wasnt' like completely another person, but i did notice him going from wonderful to icecold in just days. The closer he got the worse the ice-age that followed (and the dissociating was later proved to exist).

He insisted in being a free soul, not liking commitment, liking me because i was the only one not demanding to be the only person in his life - and kept falling for the ones wanting him to devote them 24/7 (and those relationships were soon over as he, being a talented and kind BPD he picked up what the girls wanted him to be and was that person until he snapped)

Perhaps typical to BPD he was also testing me out of fear for rejection, ie doing stuff so much and so far that i did eventually throw him out - did the very thing he feared... .

I suppose drawing the line and maintaining my boundaries was beneficial for both of us. After that he crushed mentally, quite badly, but it was the point in which in went to the doctores and slowly started to see all the things that were wrong in his life. 

So what i'm saying is that it might be as mitchell says or that it might be far more complicated. But, be whichever it may, i still think you must take care of yourself and your son. Think about your boundaries and maintain them.

[Rise]

She loves me, misses me, wants sex with me and wants to spend time as a family together. BUT she has to point out we're not together

What the heck is that all about?

She says she wants to work together as friends and see what happens. Whats does that mean?

It's about control, and fear. She is terrified of closeness with another person, but at the same time compulsively craves it. She wants the good feelings that come with being with you, but is terrified by the relationship at the same time. This is just another way of her maintaining control of the situation.

[londonD]

She loves me, misses me, wants sex with me and wants to spend time as a family together. BUT she has to point out we're not together

What the heck is that all about?

She says she wants to work together as friends and see what happens. Whats does that mean?

It's about control, and fear. She is terrified of closeness with another person, but at the same time compulsively craves it. She wants the good feelings that come with being with you, but is terrified by the relationship at the same time. This is just another way of her maintaining control of the situation.

That makes sense... .I've seen this behavior in her before! In the early days of the relationship, she couldn't get any closer, she was all over me. But that was fear of abandonment. She grabbed hold to keep me. She cried to her friend as she thought I was going to leave her!

Then came the accusations of cheating, all the time... .That's why shes "scared" to commit to me... .Because she doesn't trust me

She keeps her distance so she can get out of the relationship any time she has fear of abandonment, leave me before I leave her.

Its very sad my son had to be born to an unavailable mother!

[Traumatized]

Mine does that too.  She loves to point out how we're not in a relationship, but then turn around and act like we're a couple and even suggest we get couples counseling to fix our relationship.  Last week she told me she is engaged so I broke things off with her.  I am so absurdly addicted to her that a few days later I went crawling back and patched things up.  She said she loves me and that we're "still together."  What does that mean?  As friends or as a couple?  It sounds like as a couple to me, but how could we be a couple if she's engaged?  We can't, unless of course it's a sick game where she wins and everybody else loses.

By keeping the lines of the relationship blurred and not clearly defined she can pull me in whenever she needs me and push me away whenever she wants to be with someone else.  Yes, it's the clique she wants her cake and eat it too.  I get the crumbs that fall to the floor.  They aren't enough to satisfy me, but I like the taste so I keep waiting patiently by her feet for her to drop some more.

[Moselle]

She loves me, misses me, wants sex with me and wants to spend time as a family together. BUT she has to point out we're not together[/b]

What the heck is that all about?

She says she wants to work together as friends and see what happens. Whats does that mean?

LondonD, what do you want? Where do your boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable start?

I'm learning by experience  that pwBPD keep us in the FOG, so we keep pandering to their needs. But I'm also learning that they actually crave (mine does anyway) firm boundaries that they can push up against, to give them a reference point for their swinging emotions.

Yes they want to have their cake and eat it. But they also want someone to say- "Stop eating cake, I've chosen healthy and cake eating is not for me." I've also learned that validating and helping her feel emotionally safe are ways to reward positive behaviours.

PS I have, the same stuff going on. "The I miss you", the intimacy, the I want to spend time as a family. But I'm the one saying "Friends please? let's take one step at a time"

[londonD]

She loves me, misses me, wants sex with me and wants to spend time as a family together. BUT she has to point out we're not together[/b]

What the heck is that all about?

She says she wants to work together as friends and see what happens. Whats does that mean?

LondonD, what do you want? Where do your boundaries of acceptable and unacceptable start?

I'm learning by experience  that pwBPD keep us in the FOG, so we keep pandering to their needs. But I'm also learning that they actually crave (mine does anyway) firm boundaries that they can push up against, to give them a reference point for their swinging emotions.

Yes they want to have their cake and eat it. But they also want someone to say- "Stop eating cake, I've chosen healthy and cake eating is not for me." I've also learned that validating and helping her feel emotionally safe are ways to reward positive behaviours.

PS I have, the same stuff going on. "The I miss you", the intimacy, the I want to spend time as a family. But I'm the one saying "Friends please? let's take one step at a time"

This is very difficult. She is on her way back from Africa, she was talking about a fake handbag she bought while away, she then said "If I was was still with Mark, maybe I'd have a real on by now", that was my replacement that she had lined up before we split up. They were only seeing each other for three weeks, he is a psychiatrist and dumped her once he saw all the drama.

I let her know that it was unacceptable to bring him up when chatting to me. She didn't like this and then told me all the reasons why he was interested in him, what she liked about him, she then said "I know 100% I'm good enough for him, I definitely better than you", this from the woman that was desperate to have my baby.

The words, telling me she is better than me, telling me why she liked him etc. has actually hurt my feelings. I woke up at 5am, unable to sleep, like I did when I first found out about him.

She is fantasizing about this guy, thinking it was a "relationship", I had to point out to her that if he was so invested in a relationship with her, he would still be with her, but hes now, he's a playboy and is sleeping with multiple women. 

[Moselle]

She was talking about a fake handbag she bought while away, she then said "If I was was still with Mark, maybe I'd have a real on by now", that was my replacement that she had lined up before we split up. They were only seeing each other for three weeks, he is a psychiatrist and dumped her once he saw all the drama.

I let her know that it was unacceptable to bring him up when chatting to me. She didn't like this and then told me all the reasons why he was interested in him, what she liked about him, she then said "I know 100% I'm good enough for him, I definitely better than you", this from the woman that was desperate to have my baby.

The words, telling me she is better than me, telling me why she liked him etc. has actually hurt my feelings. I woke up at 5am, unable to sleep, like I did when I first found out about him.

She is fantasizing about this guy, thinking it was a "relationship", I had to point out to her that if he was so invested in a relationship with her, he would still be with her, but hes now, he's a playboy and is sleeping with multiple women. 

I remember her saying she doesn't like to share right? But she can brag to you about her exploits

I can sense your pain LondonD, sorry to hear that she's doing this. And that it's affecting you so deeply. It's understandable that you do. It's clear that she's invalidating you

What choices do you have?

[londonD]

She was talking about a fake handbag she bought while away, she then said "If I was was still with Mark, maybe I'd have a real on by now", that was my replacement that she had lined up before we split up. They were only seeing each other for three weeks, he is a psychiatrist and dumped her once he saw all the drama.

I let her know that it was unacceptable to bring him up when chatting to me. She didn't like this and then told me all the reasons why he was interested in him, what she liked about him, she then said "I know 100% I'm good enough for him, I definitely better than you", this from the woman that was desperate to have my baby.

The words, telling me she is better than me, telling me why she liked him etc. has actually hurt my feelings. I woke up at 5am, unable to sleep, like I did when I first found out about him.

She is fantasizing about this guy, thinking it was a "relationship", I had to point out to her that if he was so invested in a relationship with her, he would still be with her, but hes now, he's a playboy and is sleeping with multiple women. 

I remember her saying she doesn't like to share right? But she can brag to you about her exploits

I can sense your pain LondonD, sorry to hear that she's doing this. And that it's affecting you so deeply. It's understandable that you do. It's clear that she's invalidating you

What choices do you have?

She makes poor choices with her words. Especially when she is stressed, tired or under pressure.

I called her on her behavior and told her it was unacceptable to rub this in my face. I explained that if he was invested in the "relationship" he would still be in the picture. Instead he sensed the drama (hes a medical health professional) and he bailed.

She then went on to tell me what she liked in this man etc. And also told me "I know one thing, he wasn't just in it for the sex, he has a very low sex drive and isn't interested really"

I know my ex, sex is a way for her to be validated. She also has a high sex drive, If they had stayed together this would have been a problem. She would see this as him "not loving or fancying her". Sex was used as a weapon in our relationship.

What choices do I have?

Choice one is to realise that her words are just words and not to take them personally.

Choice two is to walk away and let her get on with whatever she chooses. I cant stop her and she needs to make her own mistakes, she needs to make the mistakes and hurt from them also.

[Moselle]

What choices do I have?

Choice one is to realise that her words are just words and not to take them personally.

Choice two is to walk away and let her get on with whatever she chooses. I cant stop her and she needs to make her own mistakes, she needs to make the mistakes and hurt from them also.

Choice one is very hard, perhaps your boundary can be "Respectful communication". As soon as she starts, just disengage. Words are extremely painful as spoken by a BP/NP. Best stop them in their tracks and let them know. She'll probably call you oversensitive, but you gotta stick a boundary in there. She'll respect you!

Choice two. You gotta be ready to walk. Are you?

[londonD]

What choices do I have?

Choice one is to realise that her words are just words and not to take them personally.

Choice two is to walk away and let her get on with whatever she chooses. I cant stop her and she needs to make her own mistakes, she needs to make the mistakes and hurt from them also.

Choice one is very hard, perhaps your boundary can be "Respectful communication". As soon as she starts, just disengage. Words are extremely painful as spoken by a BP/NP. Best stop them in their tracks and let them know. She'll probably call you oversensitive, but you gotta stick a boundary in there. She'll respect you!

Choice two. You gotta be ready to walk. Are you?

You're correct about choice 1. Very difficult, I need to learn that what comes out of her mouth is how she feels at that very moment. Her moods fluctuate so much its unreal.

Example, she flew into London today, she wanted to crash at my house for a few hours while I was at work. I left the keys for her, all she's done is moan that she can't get the roof fully closed on her car, moaned that the cleaner was there, moaned that the TV remote didn't work (she was lying down on a bad angle), moaned that its uncomfortable and told me she's never coming again. It's like- I've done you a favour, be thankful and stop whining about every little thing.

Choice 2- the above makes it easier to think about disengaging, the reality isn't as easy. She can be so disrespectful and needs someone to vent to and someone to do favours for her. I remember when we first got together, our daily phone calls were just a chance for her to moan about every little thing in her life, I dreaded calling her.

It makes me sad to think that the girl I fell in love with didn't exist, she was sweet, loving and beautiful. She is getting worse as she gets older, more bitter, more stubborn, less loving.

If its not me that she vents to, and moans at, it will be someone else. I hated that guy because he was lined up before we were finished, she was messaging him behind my back and even went on a date with him, then had sex with me the following day.

I hate him for what he represents. I'm not sure I'd be as hurt if it was someone else that she met while separated.

I just don't know. I know she'll never change without help, our relationship dynamics are already set.