I failed

[zenwexler]

I unblocked her and texted her. I wouldn't be able to move forward. I need to know why she called me the other night. If she actually has plans to move or if she's considering to try to get back together. I just can't live like this anymore. I don't feel like a human being anymore. I just want to either be with her and be happy or not have her part of my life but also be happy. I'm constantly on this forum trying to stay alive and I hate it.

I ignored her call the next day and I hadn't heard from her since. Which consumed me. Why would she call me back to back days then hear nothing from her? So I texted her. Haven't heard back yet. Now I feel shame for giving in and texting her.

[Infern0]

Failure is just a step on the road to success my friend.

I'm not going to criticize anyone in your position. I would just say make sure you are doing things for the right reasons.  The language in your post indicates you are not strong in your core. I would advise to continue NC until you feel strong enough to make rational decisions.

The no response from her should be all the information you need.

[enlighten me]

Hi Zen

Try not to worry about it and don't blame yourself. We all have these moments. Its what you do now that counts. Its up to you whether you let go or continue with this pain.

By responding you have now given her power. The power to ignore you and cause you more pain or to lead you however she wants. You need to take back that power.

[zenwexler]

How do I get the power back?

[enlighten me]

By going NC again. By being realistic and deciding what it is you truly want. By not dwelling in the past but looking to your future. By realising that you deserve better.

By taking control of your life and not living someone else's.

It might seem hard but you can do it. You sometimes need to break things apart before you can build them back up again.

[zenwexler]

I was nc. I had her blocked. She found a way to reach me. That was my best effort. I gave it all I had

[KeepOnGoing]

Hey Zen,

Put down the big stick. You are ok, and you are going to be ok. Block her at every level, and challenge yourself one day at a time to not have contact for the next 90 days. Make a game of it at first if you have to, and you will feel much better in 90 days, or sooner. I promise. Take back your power. Try not to give into reacting to what you think she is doing or not doing. Post on here every day. Let yourself feel the pain for now. Talk to a therapist if you need to for now. She's a drug. A crack pipe. A needle. Shore up all of your defenses against the first bit of contact. If you are thinking about contacting her, post here. Get involved in other posts and conversations on here. Block her again, my friend. Just step away from that buzz saw of crazy. You will be ok.

Keep us posted.

[enlighten me]

It doesn't matter if she can reach you. What matters is how you let it effect you.

I have to have contact with both my uBPD exs. At first it was hard. I took it personally. I longed for them to just say I want you back. I felt as if I was nothing without them.

I then changed my outlook. I looked at what I actually got from the relationships. I realised that it was only what I had put in. The love I felt was just the love I showed being reflected back. There was nothing that I would miss that I hadn't created and that was hard to accept but accept it I did. Yes somewhere in there is the person that I loved but that was only a fragment of who they were. A tiny piece of them that was the same as me. That fragment was buried in amongst someone who I am not. That tiny fragment was all we had in common and I realised that it wasn't worth the heartache.

[zenwexler]

I'm texting her now. Every eggshell has been thrown to within a 100 mile radius. I thought she was drunk when she called me. Turns out she was completely sober.

[SpringInMyStep]

zen,

you did not fail. this is just a little hiccup on your road to freedom. please make an effort to stay NC because I promise you, you will feel better. all of this stress you have wondering why she didn't text you, yadda yadda yadda? ALL of that disappears with no contact. but it can't just be NC, it has to be "I don't care if you contact me". It has to be you moving on and taking back your life.

I promise you, I know what you're going through. 

[kc sunshine]

zenwexler: we're with you! And I so know what you mean about the agony of the push and pull/ text and then not text. So so so hard.

[Infern0]

Zen please don't do it man. Save yourself

[GuiltHaunted]

I am going the other way, than what the other posters say:

Do what you got to do!

If you need to text her, then do so... .No one can tell you to go NC. That has to come from a desire within yourself.

I was 7 months on/off NC, before having enough. During the 7 months, I ignored a contact attempt of hers for two months. It was eating me up, so after two months I caved in and wrote her... .of course it didn't lead anywhere. I could have saved myself the pain and responded right away.

In the end I asked her never to contact me again, and haven't heard from her since. That is now 9 months ago.

To be honest... .There is no quick fix. I don't know when you broke up. But count on at least 6 months of hell. Take one day at a time and you will end up getting through it. Those 6 months are pure survival... .so it pretty much doesn't matter what you do. NC, LC or contact, whatever eases the pain for you at the time.

When you get relatively through (resuming a somewhat normal daily routine - 6 months), cut her out if you can.

I am 16 months out now, and doing well. I still think about her EVERY day, but not with a feeling of pain. I guess the cure for the remaining thinking about her, is a new relationship... .

[SpringInMyStep]

Yeah I definitely am not telling you what to feel... .I'm saying to pay attention to how you feel when you have contact with her. I saw my wife the other day because I had to (for my condo refi) and I've been fuming with anger ever since. She emailed me again today asking when we were gonna hang out and I told her I needed time and I'm still processing. I do not want to hang out with her. I have to pay attention to the way it felt and all of this aftermath. I do not need this stress and realize it's less stress without her.

That's all. If you do contact her, just really be mindful of how it makes you feel and take the appropriate actions.

[zenwexler]

So I asked her if what she would do about her bf if she moved. She responded by asking if that was a casual way of asking if she was still seeing him. I just said I was wondering.

She responded by saying

Her- " I mean I didn't let us being together hold me back from moving to NY right?"

Me " I lived 80 miles from NY, Big difference"

Her- "That's true. I actually don't like to think about it because I no idea. Haha. But it's extremely unhealthy to base your life on someone else. I mean if a guy moved to be closer to me I would be freaked out. Unless I thought it was going to last a long time, I'd be worried. Honestly, in our relationship I think it moved too quickly and too forcefully."

Me' "We were at weird parts of our lives"

Her- ya but also we weren't a great fit don't you think? I felt like we just weren't a good fit. I mean I think we were bored and wanted to feel something so we chose each other to do it and there ya go"


Why is she saying these things?

[Infern0]

So I asked her if what she would do about her bf if she moved. She responded by asking if that was a casual way of asking if she was still seeing him. I just said I was wondering.

She responded by saying

Her- " I mean I didn't let us being together hold me back from moving to NY right?"

Me " I lived 80 miles from NY, Big difference"

Her- "That's true. I actually don't like to think about it because I no idea. Haha. But it's extremely unhealthy to base your life on someone else. I mean if a guy moved to be closer to me I would be freaked out. Unless I thought it was going to last a long time, I'd be worried. Honestly, in our relationship I think it moved too quickly and too forcefully."

Me' "We were at weird parts of our lives"

Her- ya but also we weren't a great fit don't you think? I felt like we just weren't a good fit. I mean I think we were bored and wanted to feel something so we chose each other to do it and there ya go"


Why is she saying these things?

It's nonsensical drivel mate.  Why are you subjecting yourself to this? Block her ass and move on is my advice. I know it's hard.

This is all tactics.

Alternatively just say yeah I agree,  you were just a bit of fun,  you kept me entertained.  And see the animal come out.

[Hopeless777]

So I asked her if what she would do about her bf if she moved. She responded by asking if that was a casual way of asking if she was still seeing him. I just said I was wondering.

She responded by saying

Her- " I mean I didn't let us being together hold me back from moving to NY right?"

Me " I lived 80 miles from NY, Big difference"

Her- "That's true. I actually don't like to think about it because I no idea. Haha. But it's extremely unhealthy to base your life on someone else. I mean if a guy moved to be closer to me I would be freaked out. Unless I thought it was going to last a long time, I'd be worried. Honestly, in our relationship I think it moved too quickly and too forcefully."

Me' "We were at weird parts of our lives"

Her- ya but also we weren't a great fit don't you think? I felt like we just weren't a good fit. I mean I think we were bored and wanted to feel something so we chose each other to do it and there ya go"


Why is she saying these things?

Not to be harsh, because I'm so sorry for your moments of pain and anguish, but the "why" can never be asked about BPD behavior, words, deeds, etc. I lived with a BPDw for 27+ years and if I asked why, I'd be committed to the funny farm. The only answer is that they have BPD and are generally incurable. I've been with my T in weekly sessions for more than 3 months. My T "assessed" my BPDw for couples therapy and my T declined. My T thought my BPDw to be too afflicted and needed in-residence treatment for 30-90 days. My BPDw simply thinks she's not assertive enough. Talk about denial. Realize they have BPD and there is no logic only immediate feeling that changes from minute to minute often 180 degrees. NC is the only path to sanity for us.

[myself]

You didn't fail. You were looking for an answer. You found it.

[zenwexler]

What answer did I find? I have no idea. I feel more confused

[Infern0]

What answer did I find? I have no idea. I feel more confused

That she's got BPD and you need to stay well clear.

That's the only answer that matters.

You are in FOG mode. I don't think you are going to listen to any of us but we will be here when you hit bedrock again if you continue down this path.

[blissful_camper]

I agree.  You didn't fail.  You did what you needed to do, and now you know where she stands.  Where you go next is up to you.  I promise that if you stay NC and give yourself the space and time to process, reflect, and heal, you'll find inner harmony on the other side.  One day at a time.  

[blissful_camper]

What answer did I find? I have no idea. I feel more confused

When you're in it, it's easy to get caught up in trying to figure it out.  Try to let that part of it go, as difficult as it is.  It makes no sense.  It's a disorder that's talking.  Don't take it personally.  It's not about you. 

[zenwexler]

It really is the exact same cycle over and over again. It's unreal. There truly is no debate. She is severely disordered. She just told me that she has gotten into a bad habit of cat calling men. Like what?

[LettingGo14]

How do I get the power back?

Hello zen.  I am sorry you are still suffering.

Here's my answer to the question.  It's just one perspective of many, but I offer because I do think you can re-claim yourself.   I will write in terms of what I did because, like you, I wanted contact because I wanted to understand.

First, I had to accept that I was suffering, and when I say "accept" I mean I had to "consent" to it (in other words, go through it, rather than around it).  There is wisdom in "no escape" from the pain (that is, in sitting with it, without judgment).

Second, I had to accept that the answer was within me (and not with her). This is easier said than done.  But, she was a rubik's cube that I was not going to solve. I turned all attention to myself and kept bringing the questions back to myself (even when I desperately wanted contact -- even when I broke NC... .I kept telling myself, "it's not about her, it's not about her, it's not about her, it's not about her... .".

Third, I committed to "re-training" my brain.  I used meditation -- because it meant (1) leaning into the spear, (2) not "reacting" to thoughts or feelings, and (3) learning to "hold" and "self-soothe" rather than look outside myself for answers.

This is possible, my friend.   I felt like a pathetic addict when I stumbled into this community.   It has been 8 months, and everything has changed.    

The answer is within you.

[zenwexler]

Thank you all for your continuous support. Her actions shouldn't surprise me but they do even though it's the same thing over and over and over. It really is kindblowing. Every single time I go nc she goes to such great lengths to get in contact with me then tries to drive home the message that she wants to be friends even though all of her actions screams she has feelings for me. And every time I get sucked in. It's funny. I actually thought she was in love with her bf. but clearly her actions prove otherwise.

[LettingGo14]

And every time I get sucked in.

You have the power to re-frame this.   You truly do.   Even if you do get "sucked in" -- you can begin again.  Even if it takes a billion re-starts.   

[zenwexler]

The reframing is more of just facing reality. She has serious issues and proves this every time she recycles. Do I just go nc again? Or do I let her no? Or just block her again and make sure I don't pick up the phone for unknown numbers

[LettingGo14]

Do I just go nc again? Or do I let her no? Or just block her again and make sure I don't pick up the phone for unknown numbers

When you decide -- truly decide -- that she has no more power, it won't matter if you go NC or LC or block or allow.   Think of people you pass on the street every day -- just ordinary people, with no radioactive impact on you.  Or, think of people who have come in and out of life -- even those who hurt you.  You may now think fondly of them, or even feel somewhat indifferent.

There are over 7 billion people on this planet, in a universe with more stars in the sky than grains of sand on the earth.   None of us have to give power to one person.  (Note:  I was in your shoes, so I understand).

Detachment leads to freedom.  And that detachment comes when we stop being reactive to the other person.  Yes, they hurt us.  Yes, they traumatize us.  But, at some point, we say, "no more."   

[Infern0]

The reframing is more of just facing reality. She has serious issues and proves this every time she recycles. Do I just go nc again? Or do I let her no? Or just block her again and make sure I don't pick up the phone for unknown numbers

Why on earth would you let her know?

Sorry to be harsh but there you go.

Block her,  delete her number,  don't answer unknowns.  NO CONTACT.

[zenwexler]

Haha i love how lettinggo writes this beautiful spiritual message and inferno just writes bluntly delete block never look back. That made me laugh. I needed that. Both very good advice. This girl haunts me. I wish I could just fully escape her. Or just be with her happily. But the latter seems impossible I guess

[Infern0]

Haha i love how lettinggo writes this beautiful spiritual message and inferno just writes bluntly delete block never look back. That made me laugh. I needed that. Both very good advice. This girl haunts me. I wish I could just fully escape her. Or just be with her happily. But the latter seems impossible I guess

It's the same with me,  I wish I could be with mine and be happy but it's just not possible. I'll always have love for her but I just accept that she cannot change and I can't be with her. NC has strengthened my resolve.  I occasionally check my spam folder and see the stuff she sends and it hurts for an instant but then I analyze it line by line. Projection, emotional blackmail etc etc. I can see through all of it at this stage. I even see her parroting exact phrases I said to her. It's predictable.

Once you get to that stage you will be ok. But you need to stick to your guns. 

[goldylamont]

... .She has serious issues and proves this every time she recycles.

you mentioned that you had an 8 month r/s with her. how long has it been since then? and when you mention recycles, do you mean that you both have gotten back together, both claiming to be in a r/s with each other? or is this just her reaching out to you despite you telling her you don't want to hear from her?

you asked the question earlier about why she keeps reaching out to you, even though she has/had a bf and even though you asked her to leave you alone. and you are quick to point out her issues as a cause of this. got it. however there is another reason she keeps reaching out to you which you need to be aware of--she does it because she's still in control of you. she knows she'll get a response. because you don't keep your boundaries, so she calls you on your bluff and then you're back to square one. i'm not sure how many times you have drawn a line in the sand, only to allow her to dance across it again, and this is the root of the issue. it is true that she has issues. she probably always will. but as LettingGo stated you have to start taking the responsibility for these reconnects by acknowledging your own issues.

be kind to yourself, believe in yourself and forgive yourself. but at some point she's going to call you out of the blue from an unknown phone number and it's going to be up to you to ensure the contact stops then and there. imagine yourself at this moment where you are strong enough to not react and work diligently to become this person.

you have to let go of this fantasy. i often think you need to actively destroy the fantasy (this was more suitable for my personality type). if you don't do this for yourself, then by default she will do it for you--because one day she'll reach a threshold where you become less important to her and she may never contact you again. and this will be a blessing but it feels better when you were able to take the reigns and initiate.

[zenwexler]

Every time I go nc she goes to greater and greater lengths to get me on the phone. This most recent i was literally tricked. In the past it was car accidents surgery and self harm. We only broke up and got back together officially once. Th rest were just me going nc and her doing everything she can to reach out to me. Her actions always scream to me that she can't let me go and has more then just friend feelings for me. It's been 14 months since we've last broken up. I haven't even seen her in person for 12 months

[LettingGo14]

It's been 14 months since we've last broken up. I haven't even seen her in person for 12 months

It's time, zen:  Make everything about you now, and your recovery, and you will free yourself.  Goldy said it very well -- she's a fantasy, a fiction. She's real but not true, for you.  Take a deep breath, and let her go completely -- breathe in, heal yourself... .breathe out, let her go.  

[zenwexler]

Everyone says it gets easier with NC. And I went true NC for four months. It never got easier. I thought about her all the time. And clearly she did as well

[SpringInMyStep]

zen,

if you went NC for 4 months and that didn't help, it may be that you are still believing the fantasy of who she appears to be vs. who she really is. You're believing the fantasy because you so badly want it to be true.

for this, I might suggest reading more about BPD and how they work. It's not love. It's need. It's dependence but then they reject you if you need them too much. And the cycle continues.

[zenwexler]

You're absolutely right. I was hoping she would reach out to me. To not move on and still prove to me that she has feelings for me. Which I think her action have shown. She hasn't moved on. She hasn't changed. She clearly is very disordered. You can make the argument that as she gets older and sees more of the world it in fact is getting worse rather then better. Because if she was better. She wouldn't have gone to such great lengths to get me on the phone even though she's "dating" someone

[SpringInMyStep]

Yes! You know, I ask myself why my wife would want to hang out with me after saying I "hurt her the most out of everyone". Then I remembered how BPDs work and I'm one of those people she feels can do things for her... .so she will overlook things about people even if she doesn't like them because of what she can get from that person. She did it with me, she's doing it with the couple she's now dating. She really has nothing in common with them but seems to overlook a lot of stuff because they have all really attached themselves to each other very quickly (one of them is BPD).

Her attachment to you comes and goes based on her need. Today she might be feeling lonely so she'll text you to check your reaction. Then tomorrow, the person she's dating is available, so she'll push you away again. Do you really want to be part of a relationship like this?

It's just so dysfunctional. I said in another thread that my therapist told me to only date people who are at least as mentally healthy as I am. I think that's good advice.

[heartandwhole]

Hi zen,

I'm really sorry that you are going through this right now.  I've been there, and it hurt so much.  Letting go can be so difficult, it certainly was for me.

Everyone says it gets easier with NC. And I went true NC for four months. It never got easier. I thought about her all the time. And clearly she did as well

This is a very, very important point.  NC is not the healing, not the cure, not the silver bullet.  :)etachment is.  NC will not protect you from your ex, or yourself, if it's the only thing you do.  Rather, NC is the gift of time, of space – a respite from the blind following of impulses.  We have to use that gift for recovery, which is work. It's where the feelings – the ones we are trying to avoid by maintaining the relationship in the first place – come rushing to the surface like a tidal wave. Not pretty, but necessary.

Detachment and recovery can be one of the hardest things you'll ever go through, but you can survive it, and then thrive again.  Really.  Going NC is giving yourself a chance – to face what you need to face and come through it a better man – without the distraction of addictive pushes and pulls. NC is not for everyone, but if it's your choice, use it to help you let go. Then you'll realize that your ex has a disorder and is not capable of being the partner that you need, and that what you need and want for yourself is important.  As important as anything else in the world.

Zen, you have not failed and you are not alone.  We're here with our virtual arms around you.  

heartandwhole 

[Indyan]

What answer did I find? I have no idea. I feel more confused

That she's got BPD and you need to stay well clear.

(Sorry, nervous laugh)

[Harri]

Hi Zen.  I am so sorry you are hurting right now.  I get it, I really do.  There is so much truth and wisdom in this thread and I hope you are able to see the understanding, acceptance and support everyone has for you.  What a wonderful gift this place is right?  

You ask how to get your power back and I have to agree with what LettingGo said here:

You have the power to re-frame this.   You truly do.

One way to start the process of seeing the power you already have within you is to change or reframe how you describe this process.  So take this sentence as an example:

And every time I get sucked in.

These words state that you have no control over your own actions.  We both know that is not true but with these words that you type or say to yourself over and over tell you that you are incapable of resisting, as if you have no choice in the matter.  Change your words to something more accurate which would look like:  So far, I have chosen to allow myself to be sucked in.  Well no more! or something along those lines (my lines sounds kind of lame to me!    )

These words may hurt.  They may even be hard to accept or admit to, but they can be and truly are empowering.  As long as you believe you were sucked in or she somehow manipulated you (which she did, but that is not the point here!   ) you will buy into the whole "I am powerless against this" mentality.  And your actions will follow your beliefs.  Listen to your words and your self talk and they will lead you to where you are, in essence, giving away your power.

Keep posting.  We can all relate.

[zenwexler]

I want to let go. And to detach. And to be part of a healthy loving relationship. I really really do.  And for some reason I can't seem to let go of her because I KNOW she hasn't let me go either. Because if she had I wouldn't be hearing from her. So I feel like that's my biggest sticking point.

[goldylamont]

I want to let go. And to detach. And to be part of a healthy loving relationship. I really really do.  And for some reason I can't seem to let go of her because I KNOW she hasn't let me go either. Because if she had I wouldn't be hearing from her. So I feel like that's my biggest sticking point.

this is your biggest sticking point. every time you almost get there, you almost get to the point of acknowledging your own codependency, but then you deflect responsibility from yourself and onto her.

when you were together and intimate, the issue was her disorder and your codependency. right now in the present as you are not together the only issue to be addressed is your codependency (inability to detach/ignore after several months).

after these relationships it's and understatement to say that our egos have been bruised big time, if not completely assaulted. i think you are looking at her reaching out to you in the wrong light. you are reading far too much into it and projecting your fantasy of getting back together on her actions. while it's true that she's not completely detached from you, it's also very clear that she doesn't want to be back with you in any way intimately. this is your desire. not hers. she's been very clear in this regard. she's been seeing other guys. perhaps several. she's started other relationships (perhaps several). she tells you about these other relationships and has told you directly that she doesn't want one with you. she continues to contact you disregarding your boundaries because she knows she can easily get past your boundaries. and she's able to get past your boundaries because your ego is hurt, and you falsely assume that her contacting you means that ultimately she wants the same thing that you do--to get back together.

if she wanted to get back together with you this would have happened already. she's getting exactly what she wants from this exchange, which is to stay connected with you on some level with no ties while she's free to be intimate with others. that's why she keeps reaching out because her needs are met, and she could care less what your needs are. your needs have never been met--you want to be in a relationship with her and you don't want to hear about her trists with other men. but this continues to happen. the first couple of times were stumbling blocks, but at this point you've been in this limbo/purgatory stage it sounds like much longer than you were actually in the relationship itself. so, your intimate relationship where at least you got some semblance of your needs met lasted about 8 months, yet the majority of your total r/s to her has been as the ex-bf "friend" where your needs aren't met, while hers are fully.

i want to support your recovery so i mean no disrespect. but i think you have to accept that you are incorrect in thinking that your ex wants you back in the same way you want her back. once you radically accept this i think you will be ready for the next stage of detachment.

[myself]

I can't seem to let go of her because I KNOW she hasn't let me go either. Because if she had I wouldn't be hearing from her. So I feel like that's my biggest sticking point.

Here's what she said when you did hear from her:

"Her- ya but also we weren't a great fit don't you think? I felt like we just weren't a good fit. I mean I think we were bored and wanted to feel something so we chose each other to do it and there ya go"

This doesn't sound like she's hanging onto you as in she wants to be back in a relationship with you. So why then is she still in contact? For healthy reasons, or disordered? If you yourself hang onto her, just because she hasn't let go/still contacts you, this could go on for the rest of your life. IF she keeps contacting you. So you need to decide what's best for you, and follow through. Letting go hurts, in many deep ways, but is it less or more than if you hang onto the painful illusion of she's going to live happily after with you?

[enlighten me]

Hi Zen

Lots of people hold on to others and the reasons aren't always healthy. A bully will hold onto their victim as they enjoy the control and power they exert over them.

Is the fact that she hasn't let go healthy? Is it selfish? Do you truly believe that she wants anything to do with you that resembles a mutual and respectful relationship. Answer those questions truthfully and with your head not your heart.

That is the hardest part when wanting to let someone go. Listening to your head and not your emotions. Emotions are great but they can make us do things that aren't necessarily the right choice.

Only you can decide what you want but sometimes you have to take a step back and look at the situation objectively.

[zenwexler]

She's a terrible person. And is extremely cruel and abusive. And I submit myself to. When we were in a relationship and post relationship. And I'm sorry, but her calling me from her roommates phone at 1 in the morning because I had her blocked  is putting in A LOT of effort to get hold of me. Who puts that much effort in for an ex? For just a "friend" It doesn't add up to me!

[goldylamont]

She's a terrible person. And is extremely cruel and abusive. And I submit myself to. When we were in a relationship and post relationship. And I'm sorry, but her calling me from her roommates phone at 1 in the morning because I had her blocked  is putting in A LOT of effort to get hold of me. Who puts that much effort in for an ex? For just a "friend" It doesn't add up to me!

if your ex has strong BPD traits, then calling you from her roommate's phone at 1AM, despite being blocked; then when she actually does talk to you she tells you that she was bored in the r/s and she doesn't want to start again--all of this is actually normal for a pwBPD. my ex moved in a couple houses away from me over a year after we separated after 6 months NC. then she started contacting me and went so far as to park her car directly next to mine over the course of a few weeks, as if nothing bad had ever happened. This is just what some of them will do. But I knew this had *nothing* to do with her 'love' for me at all. I later confirmed what my gut instinct said--she had just broken up with yet another bf, got kicked out and tried to latch onto me until she could find some other man to idealize. So, i ignored everything and stopped replying to all correspondence. It was terribly hard for me, don't think it was a piece of cake, it wasn't. But I had to accept at this point that even though this person may still be trying to reach out, she could never love me fully, she was/is disordered. And accepting this gave me the strength to not reciprocate her contact.

Who puts in that much effort for an ex, just to be "friends"? A pwBPD often does.

right now you are still defining your future on your ex still being in love with you and one day leaving her current bf to recycle with you. holding onto this false belief has allowed a long term, one sided 'friendship' to occur with no signs that she wants to reciprocate the relationship that you want. that you deserve--with someone else. her actions show that she is disordered and still attached to you in some way; nothing more. it does not show that she loves you, or right now you would feel loved. i know it's a hard thing to accept, but this is key to you moving forward.

[zenwexler]

So these people they never can truly love someone and reciprocate? It's always just an attachment thing?

[myself]

They can love, and reciprocate. They can't be consistent. It becomes painful.

If you don't have BPD (and if you do), you want/need/deserve more than this.

It's an 'attachment thing' to whoever attaches badly, and/or does not let go.

[zenwexler]

So they do it for the time being then  stop and move on to the next one? Which is why a few months ago she was telling me she was falling in love and now shes telling me she's moving and not factoring in her current bf into the situation. Like a toddler with a toy

[myself]

So they do it for the time being then  stop and move on to the next one?

Yes. Sometimes it's another person, other times (or at the same time) drugs or something else. Sometimes they kiss the mirror, other times they smash it. Sometimes closer, sometimes farther. Sometimes now, another time, or never... .What can we count on? Ourselves. If we choose, and follow through.

[goldylamont]

So they do it for the time being then  stop and move on to the next one? Which is why a few months ago she was telling me she was falling in love and now shes telling me she's moving and not factoring in her current bf into the situation. Like a toddler with a toy

yes zenwexler. yes. they can love, but the love is more than often based on need. i'm sure her current bf is now in the same situation you were in months ago--confused, wondering if he mattered to her at all... .it's really tough to go through for anyone. i had to detach from the idea that i needed to be important to my ex. i know in my heart that i touched her fully in many ways. and at the same time i accept that for her, she has a terribly strong need, and that almost any guy can fulfill it if he's willing. i was that guy for a while. that's ok. i no longer am. i've survived. you will too. your ex doesn't love you in the same way we would understand it--but this does not reflect on your own self worth or importance. it's so important now to focus on improving yourself so that the next time she calls, instead of leaning into the idea that she wants to re-unite, you are able to hold your boundaries and accept the pain that holding them entails. you are strong enough to do this. i have faith in you. i know it hurts. i know you can get through it as well.

[zenwexler]

I know you are all right. It's like my therapist tried to drill into my head. That she is incapable of having a happy and healthy relationship and I need to recognize how sick i am for wanting one.

I forgot to mention that at the end of the conversation she said this to me

Her" I have this weird habit now. I kind of started catcalling other men. Like ohhh man. You're a hottie. Or like damn. Look at that one. He's so sexy!"

I think that may have been one of the most bizarre things I have ever heard from her. And this is the same girl that makes her mother promise to her that she won't die at least three times a day.

[goldylamont]

I forgot to mention that at the end of the conversation she said this to me

Her" I have this weird habit now. I kind of started catcalling other men. Like ohhh man. You're a hottie. Or like damn. Look at that one. He's so sexy!"

this is blatant devaluation. it's emotional poison and it's important to recognize it as such. in essence she's being passive aggressive and attacking your self-esteem. anyone this attuned into their own jealous tendencies knows that it's inappropriate to discuss other men and sexuality with exes. this is why these relationships are often described as toxic. to someone hurting like you these words telegraph that you're not hot, you're not sexy, that she's so over you. all said with a triumphant smile--i've been there and heard all that. and she's probably doing the same thing to her current bf, who knows. this is why it's so important to remove yourself from her influence. you will never be able to tell if what she is saying is genuine or intended to punish. start to see her for who she really is. a scaredy-cat who wants to punish others in order to feel superior. it will help you not want to go back.

[WhoMe51]

Zen,

I too failed recently.  I accepted a call from a number that I didn't recognize. (boundary busting)  I knew better.  But yet I answered the call.  At first the conversation was going good and then out of the blue she started blaming me for everything I did.  I took the blame once again.  I had been nc for 3 weeks and my head had started clearing.  Even after all the blame, I thought for some unknown reason, hey I'm going to try this again.  I can make this work.  (codependency).  She wanted to go to therapy which was a joke.  Once there, she became the victim and I was the big bad wolf.  And the therapist believed her.  He gave me a long list of things to do while telling her just to take her time and grieve her losses?  When we left, she was all hugs and smiles and I was very confused.  I questioned her about what just happened, and she said "that's how I felt then.  But now I'm ok.  And besides I told you I really didn't want to go to counseling."   I just shook my head and knew that I had made a mistake in going back.  Not long after that she raged at me and I raged back.  At that moment, I realized that this relationship wasn't going to change and she wasn't good for me.  And this wasn't the type of relationship I wanted to live.  I went back for me.  I stuck my hand in the fire one more time.  My going back didn't change a thing.  It was just more time wasted.  I realized that this relationship could never be fixed no matter how bad I wanted it too.  And this was a glimpse into to the future as to what it would always be like.  Do I love her? Yes.  But my love will not save her.  The only one that I can save is me.  And I deserve better.  And so does everyone who posts on this site.  We are beautiful people with huge hearts that are full of love.  And given to the right person we can have a relationship that gives back without being pushed away.

[zenwexler]

 "start to see her for who she really is. a scaredy-cat who wants to punish others in order to feel superior"

That's exactly right. And it is emotional poison. That's all she does is drop poison. Months ago she talked about her bf like a god, she was falling in love. Now it's like she's back to being the god and no one can reach her.

She really is just so freaking abusive. How can a 20 year old girl be so absolutely cruel and hide behind this innocent cute face? She has everyone fooled!

[Infared]

"start to see her for who she really is. a scaredy-cat who wants to punish others in order to feel superior"

That's exactly right. And it is emotional poison. That's all she does is drop poison. Months ago she talked about her bf like a god, she was falling in love. Now it's like she's back to being the god and no one can reach her.

She really is just so freaking abusive. How can a 20 year old girl be so absolutely cruel and hide behind this innocent cute face? She has everyone fooled!

Mine was the exact same way... .she just acted cute and super friendly and lied to and manipulated EVERYONE to get what she wanted at the moment. Utterly devoid of any decency or any awareness of other peoples' feelings. Very sick person.

[BacknthSaddle]

i know in my heart that i touched her fully in many ways. and at the same time i accept that for her, she has a terribly strong need, and that almost any guy can fulfill it if he's willing. i was that guy for a while. that's ok. i no longer am. i've survived. you will too. your ex doesn't love you in the same way we would understand it--but this does not reflect on your own self worth or importance

This is a profound truth and one that's difficult to accept.  Yes, you mattered, you were significant.  No, that is not because of anything unique in you; it is simply because you were skilled in meeting her needs for a time, which many others could have been.  I have often observed how different I am from the other men in my exs life.  She does not have a type, or rather: her type is whoever can meet her needs.

And, toughest of all to reconcile: none of this reflects on your self-worth.   Indeed, few things in our lives reflect less on our self worth.  Because these relationships were not with people who truly evaluated and appreciated our selves.  To them we had value, then we didn't.  They never knew our true value.  Now we have to find someone who does.  And to do that, we have to believe in that value ourselves. 

[BacknthSaddle]

this is blatant devaluation. it's emotional poison and it's important to recognize it as such. in essence she's being passive aggressive and attacking your self-esteem. anyone this attuned into their own jealous tendencies knows that it's inappropriate to discuss other men and sexuality with exes. this is why these relationships are often described as toxic. to someone hurting like you these words telegraph that you're not hot, you're not sexy, that she's so over you. all said with a triumphant smile--i've been there and heard all that.

Another very important point.  Shortly after our r/s ended, my ex began doing this to me as well.  When I would object, she would make it seem like I was "obsessed" with her and was being childish, and I believed her.  Once I found this site and found how common this was, I was able to re-engage with reality and set boundaries more appropriately.  This IS devaluation and is emotionally abusive, particularly if you have made it clear that you don't want to hear it.  This is a friend?  No.  This is not the kind of person that ANY of us want to be involved with.  No matter how cute her face is. 

[BacknthSaddle]

As an example, my ex once texted me at 11 PM when I was out with friends to tell me how much she missed her ex-husband. I got upset and we got in a text war (not something I do with anyone else). The next day she complained that "I can't express feelings for any other guy without it affecting your self-esteem." Well... .of course not! But this was played off as a sign if immaturity in my part, and I bought into it. It's so sad that we all get so confused about what is and isn't acceptable.

[zenwexler]

The cold truth is that she devalued me the entire relationship. I was never good enough, I was always wrong. I did everything for her. Seriously. Everything. I truly did give it my all. And it's hurtful that you don't even get the respect and love you deserve. And the worst part is when it's all said and done she wants to write our relationship off as "boredom" She's just so cruel and abusive. She has abused me every step of the way. Before, during, and after our relationship. For everyone who has been reading this thread I do truly thank you for your support. I have blocked her and her roommates phone which hopefully will buy me some time. As cruel as she was I could sense she wanted to be just mean enough to not push me away. Which at this point is not much. I would ask the question if this is finally over. Will she eventually just give up and stop contacting me. Clearly the answer is no.

Every single person around me tells me that this girl has serious issues. It breaks my heart. It truly does. I'm honestly afraid that I was able to get so emotionally involved with someone who is so sick. It scares me. I feel as though I literally suffer from PTSD from our relationship. It's a combination of wanting to go back to the past so I can be with her to thinking about the past is almost to overwhelming and I shut down. 

[enlighten me]

Well done Zen

It is hard. Ive been getting more insight from some boards for pwBPD. One thing that has stood out is how unaware they where that they actually hurt people. They where saying that they knew their behaviour was a bit off but when they finally faced up to it the biggest and most painful realisation was just how hurtful they where.

Without the self awareness then they will continue as they always have. One day they may realise but it is not something that can be forced on them. I think you have made the right choice and wish you the strength to see it through.

[Perfidy]

I can help you. I understand your pain. Walk away and don't look back. This is the only way to freedom from suffering.

[MrEveryman]

I was "there" too.

After the initial idealisation, came cheating and devaluation and one attempt to recycle which i got caught up in.

[In my youth i  cheated one someone i cared about and regretted it, so for this reason i was able to forgive as not to be hypocritical].

Within weeks i was pushed away or " loved as a friend " and when i explained that could not be the case i was met with anger and projection.

My final contact where i respectfully and maturely explained i could not be involved in the push/pull behavior was met with more projection ... .and that liberated me.

---

I do still feel empathy and compassion for the her and the storm raging within, but, for my own life to continue on it's path, and the happiness i deserve; She can never be part of my future.

[Infared]

Every single person around me tells me that this girl has serious issues. It breaks my heart. It truly does. I'm honestly afraid that I was able to get so emotionally involved with someone who is so sick. It scares me. I feel as though I literally suffer from PTSD from our relationship. It's a combination of wanting to go back to the past so I can be with her to thinking about the past is almost to overwhelming and I shut down.  

Its hard to say... .but at this point... .the only thing that matters (should matter) is what you do. Just what you do to take care of you.

I went through this... I think I also suffered with PTSD after coming to this site and reflecting about what I went through with this relationship. You have to be resolute in your love for yourself, even though it seems like every cell in your body is fighting you.

My expwBPD still tries to walk up to me in public... .but the pain she caused me was soo great, that I just cannot entertain giving her another opportunity to abuse me in anyway, for any reason.  I just get away and never interact with her. Always. It is a reflex reaction at this point. I don't make a scene... .or cause any drama... .I just politely and quietly get-out-of-Dodge.  Problem solved. I can have my phone, my computer and my street... .knowing that "I" am resolute and in control of loving me. Peace comes then, not immediately ... .but it slowly evolves... .my power comes back.

It was so bad for me that I think some kind of deep animal survival mechanism kicked in to save myself (too bad that it did not operate when I met her, LOL!).  

So... .for me... .if I am loving me... .it just does not matter what she does anymore... .I am in charge of loving me... .and that is my responsibility.  She can go to F'ing %&#! for all I care.  It had to be that way for me. Enough is enough. I wish you peace, self love and serenity Zen.

[KeepOnGoing]

I heard something recently that sums it up nicely for me. This devaluing, splitting, painting me black, come here, go away bs is like being in a hit and run accident. I keep reminding myself that if I were in an actual hit and run accident, I'd do everything in my power to recover. For example, I would file insurance paperwork, go to the doctor, might even need physical therapy for awhile, even buy a new car.

In this case with recovery from the hit and run accident with a pwBPD, I take care of my own affairs -including financial, see a therapist weekly, work on my own physical well being, and concentrate on the relationships with folks who are healthy and genuinely care about me.

I have to admit that I haven't looked at her social media for more than a week now, and I feel better.

Thanks for the thread, Zen. Hang in there. You're going to be fine.

[Infared]

I heard something recently that sums it up nicely for me. This devaluing, splitting, painting me black, come here, go away bs is like being in a hit and run accident. I keep reminding myself that if I were in an actual hit and run accident, I'd do everything in my power to recover. For example, I would file insurance paperwork, go to the doctor, might even need physical therapy for awhile, even buy a new car.

In this case with recovery from the hit and run accident with a pwBPD, I take care of my own affairs -including financial, see a therapist weekly, work on my own physical well being, and concentrate on the relationships with folks who are healthy and genuinely care about me.

I have to admit that I haven't looked at her social media for more than a week now, and I feel better.

Thanks for the thread, Zen. Hang in there. You're going to be fine.

KeepOnGoing... .I love your analogy... .yes... yes... and recycling in that analogy would be like getting up from the accident and walking back out into the street and take your chances with being hit by anther car. This is not healthy for us!

[Trog]

How do I get the power back?

Hello zen.  I am sorry you are still suffering.


First, I had to accept that I was suffering, and when I say "accept" I mean I had to "consent" to it (in other words, go through it, rather than around it).  There is wisdom in "no escape" from the pain (that is, in sitting with it, without judgment).

Second, I had to accept that the answer was within me (and not with her). This is easier said than done.  But, she was a rubik's cube that I was not going to solve. I turned all attention to myself and kept bringing the questions back to myself (even when I desperately wanted contact -- even when I broke NC... .I kept telling myself, "it's not about her, it's not about her, it's not about her, it's not about her... .".

Third, I committed to "re-training" my brain.  I used meditation -- because it meant (1) leaning into the spear, (2) not "reacting" to thoughts or feelings, and (3) learning to "hold" and "self-soothe" rather than look outside myself for answers.

This is possible, my friend.   I felt like a pathetic addict when I stumbled into this community.   It has been 8 months, and everything has changed.    

The answer is within you.

I think this is probably the quickest way of healing for all of us, firstly, acknowledge the pain and dont flee it (straight into the arms of the next BPD) because secondly, its actually not about her. Be UTTERLY selfish for a change, I bet you are not a selfish person at all, that doing and buying things for yourself isnt all that pleasurable, thats what I've seen from other nons, now you need to be, its about you, learning the lessons about you and yourself, she's insignicant, we're all here to learn our lessons and I think us nons are here to learn putting our own childhoods and complexes (hero/saving) down and just think... .this woman has HURT me, again and again and again, if we saw them doing that to a dog, we'd be repulsed, but to ourselves... .we think its fine. Its not fine, you, all of us deserve better and need now more than ever to put ourselves first and think only about this relationship in terms of "how does this effect me, why did I go through that, what can I learn, can I forgive myself" and self soothe.