Playing Games saying she isn't getting emails.

[Nope]

Short background: My DH and his uBPDxw have been divorced since their two kids were small. His ex has had primsry custody and lived three states away from DH for most of the kid's lives. Communication between them has been a huge issue as she lies, distorts, and rages any chance she gets. Now, as of this past summer, DH has been awarded custody of both kids (10 and 11). So they now live with us full time and the new order states that contact between the parties needs to be primarily through email.

My DH has been sending her emails for about a month now and she has not responded to or acted upon any of the emails in any way. The order stated that DH was to set up accounts for the parties on Our Family Wizard for using the calendar. Even though he's sent her two emails about it and she should have recieved her activation information in an email like he has, she has not signed in even once. DH has primarily kept from asking her to do things because he knows thatvis pointless and will just slow down anything he is trying to do for the kids as he waits on her. So all "questions" have been phrased so that no response is an affirmative response.

Well, last night during the BPD's. phone call with their daughter, she told her daughter she never got the girl scout email for the fall sale. (Then she emotionally abused the child telling her that she was going to buy from the local troop instead of her own daughter. Even though DH has always bought from her even when she lived with the BPD mom. But that's for another thread.) We know as fact that everyone else that their daughter sent the email form letter out to sid receive it. DH also sent his BPDex two other emails referencing the fall sale. So, she's lying about not having known about it.

Clearly, she intends to lie about receiving any of the emails. This is especially troubling because medical expenses are supposed to be split 50/50 and SD needs braces. DH sent his ex an email outlining treatment costs and payment options. Since she has not responded, she will not agree to treatment or payment options, and clearly intends to say in court that she never got the email and can't comment on it and c won't be held financially responsible. This is exasperating!

[scraps66]

Passive-aggressive tactics.  Control by not communicating or refusal to answer.  Immature and irrational. 

Obviously, be prepared to present all of the unanswered e-mails, and how the claims of non-communication are used by inappropriately the child.  If it isn't already written, I would argue that Dad get sfull decision making authority as mother refuses to engage and that leads to stalling - things like getting braces. 

[ForeverDad]

Our Family Wizard is often used by courts to document email communications.  The court and professionals are able to monitor emails so that neither parent can claim sending something that was never sent nor deny receiving something that was sent.  If she claims receiving or knowing nothing then she will fall flat on her face if it is ever addressed in court.

One action dad can take is to email ex both to the standard email account as well as with OFW.  That way the judge and professionals can see he is using both the old and new methods for contact.  However, maybe that's not what he ought to do since she would see the communication in her regular email and reduces any incentive to comply with using OFW.

My ex often claimed "I never got that!" though we were never required to use OFW or other special methods.  After the police carted her off and our separation began, I looked at the history of web pages on our computer and found a few files where she had just been on a page to BLOCK my emails!  To my knowledge, my non-work email account is still Blocked, by the end of this month it will have been 9 years!  No one cared, not lawyers, not GAL, not court.

However, I've always sent important information to her email account, at least it documented my attempts.  Then I would follow it up with mailing printed copies by USPS Certificate of Mailing.  That method documents I sent something to her but it doesn't require her to sign for it or even know I had used that method of documentation.  (If I used Certified Mail - considered a standard method - then I worried she might refuse to accept it.)  That way I had paperwork to document I had done what I considered to be reasonable due diligence.

[Matt]

There are some programs you can install on your computer which will track when e-mails are opened.  The only one I've used is Sidekick by HubSpot, but I don't know if it's the best or not, just the one I found (for business purposes).

I also don't know if a program like that will give you a good enough record for court.

Another option - could be an expensive one - would be to communicate important stuff through both attorneys, so there will be a record that your attorney communicated the information to her attorney.  Then if Mom says "I didn't get that!" she will be attacking her own attorney, not you or yours.

[scraps66]

Another option - could be an expensive one - would be to communicate important stuff through both attorneys, so there will be a record that your attorney communicated the information to her attorney.  Then if Mom says "I didn't get that!" she will be attacking her own attorney, not you or yours.

This part could be done only periodically by saving all the sent mail, and then just forward all of the messages to the L, say, monthly.  This would document going to great lengths to maintain communication where necessary, and conversely document game playing by the BP.

My ex claimed I was abusing her in e-mail while I was trying to communicate offers of settlement, and, she was blocking my e-mail, both her work and home address.  On the other hand I would collect e-mails sent and received from/to her work e-mail from places like the Cub Scout leader.  All games and obstructionism. 

[Matt]

Another option - could be an expensive one - would be to communicate important stuff through both attorneys, so there will be a record that your attorney communicated the information to her attorney.  Then if Mom says "I didn't get that!" she will be attacking her own attorney, not you or yours.

This part could be done only periodically by saving all the sent mail, and then just forward all of the messages to the L, say, monthly.  This would document going to great lengths to maintain communication where necessary, and conversely document game playing by the BP.

Yeah, this seems like an excellent strategy.

[Nope]

We are sending her an email saying we are concerned she may have missed some emails as we have not heard from hwr and that we will be reforwarding the emails to her and CCing both attorneys. We have a court date in a couple of weeks and we'll be able to raise our concerns in front of the magistrate. She is supposed to use Our Family Wizard for the calendar function so that the parties can both know what the visitation schedule will look like. It doesn't say anything about using the message board instead of regular email but maybe we can nudge the magistrate into saying OFW counts as email communication for the purposes of the order.

She clearly intends to say she never got the email about braces and therefore shouldn't have to pay. But since the custody finding by this magistrate actually says, "Mother's credibility is a pervasive issue" and then goes on to call her a liar several times, I'm thinking the magistrate knows not to buy what shevis selling. I just don't know, at this point, what the magistrate can even do about it.

[ForeverDad]

Dad may never manage to force his ex to pay up for the expenses, but he probably knew that going into this process.  He may just have to shoulder all the parenting responsibility and obligations without expecting any compliance from her.  Her consequences are already in place, minimal contact with the children.  Her purposeful noncompliance just puts more nails in the coffin which holds ex's expectation to wring concessions out of thoughtful dad or gullible court.

[Matt]

It seems to me that - using the approach you describe - you have two options now, both of them good.

One is, you can send all the e-mails to both attorneys, and have your attorney call hers, and say, "Your client is not communicating.  This will be an issue at the hearing in two weeks.  You may want to advise her to begin communicating and cooperating now."  Her attorney will probably tell her very strongly, "You better shape up fast!".  If she does, that may weaken your court case, but things may start working better.

Or... .you could gather up the information, and give it to your attorney, and present it all at the hearing.  Don't give the other side any notice.  Show that she isn't communicating or cooperating.  If your goal is to shift custody in your direction, that may be the better strategy.

[ForeverDad]

Or... .you could gather up the information, and give it to your attorney, and present it all at the hearing.  Don't give the other side any notice.  Show that she isn't communicating or cooperating.  If your goal is to shift custody in your direction, that may be the better strategy.

[scraps66]

 

[Nope]

Yeah, it'll get brought up. She'll at least be made to say in court and on the record that she will or won't pay for her portion for the braces. It'll be interesting to see what she even says. After all, the original parenting plan where 50/50 medical expenses is written is something she agreed to, not something that was imposed on her. Of course, part of the reason the kids live with us is because she wasn't taking them for any medical and dental care. And when she signed it the oldest was seven and she wasn't thinking about braces. So in court she will either lie and say she intends to do her part and then just not, or she'll cry financial hardship, which she'll be doing anyway because it's a hearing on child support.

Oh well, the way the order is written she gets one weekend a month in our state in months she gets no other ordered parenting time, "unless the parties agree". She has no ordered parenting time in the summer currently. Which means worst case scenario we'll just chalk all of this up to more documentation of reasons DH won't agree to sending the kids up to her next summer.

[Matt]

You might want to consider asking for your legal costs too, since this hearing is only needed because she isn't following the court order.

[ForeverDad]

Often it is hard to get costs awarded, at least for the first few requests.  Besides the reluctance of many judges to penalize the loser they also may consider the loser as having an inability to pay, as in "don't kick the person who is down".  Yet that reluctance to give consequences seems to encourage more motions and enable more obstruction.  One strategy that a member here suggested a few years ago is to ask that any awards be paid into the children's college funds or something similar.  That way the 'loser' is paying directly to the benefit of the children, not the 'winner', something that the judge might be more willing to do.

[Nope]

You might want to consider asking for your legal costs too, since this hearing is only needed because she isn't following the court order.

Actually, it's a hearing on CS modification to discuss what the BPD should now be paying in CS since the kids are now with dad. So, if we want CS it's mandatory. It's unfortunately also a hearing ti discuss who should pay the rest of the exorbitant GAL fees. Unfortunately, the BPD pulled some really stupid stuff AFTER the custody hearing so we had to call the GAL and all go back to court for an emergency motion to keep the kids with us while it all got sorted out. A whole bunch of outstanding GAL fees are related to that debacle (in which we w were awarded temporary custody) and we don't feel we should have to pay any of it since the BPD caused the whole mess in the first place.

We are hoping that if we throw enough things she needs to pay into the mix then she will at least be made to pay *some* of it.

[Matt]

We are hoping that if we throw enough things she needs to pay into the mix then she will at least be made to pay *some* of it.

Yeah, I think that's the right strategy:  ask for everything you think is reasonable, and document that the costs were the result of Mom's behavior, so it's not right for you to have to pay them.

No matter what the judge decides, both Mom and her attorney will hear your logic, and rightly presume that you will ask for this stuff again, every time she misbehaves, and sooner or later she might have to pay them.  So her attorney will advise her to act right.

[Nope]

No matter what the judge decides, both Mom and her attorney will hear your logic, and rightly presume that you will ask for this stuff again, every time she misbehaves, and sooner or later she might have to pay them.  So her attorney will advise her to act right.

Actually, her L is a huge enabler. She actually works hard to act like the BPD can do no wrong. While cross examining a teacher who was there to testify to one of the childrens ongoing anxiety and complaints of stress related stomach pains and saying he wanted to kill himself, this L looked at the teacher and said, "But his grades are basically ok, right?" Zero soul.

[ForeverDad]

One downside about my lawyer is that he said he'll defend just about anyone based on the concept that even a bad person gets the best defense possible.  Me, I find it hard to suspend my moral judgment so I guess I too would have a hard time if I were to be a lawyer assigned to defend someone who was essentially qualified only to water a rock garden.

Perhaps an appropriate question is whether the lawyer actually believes that decent grades are mitigating factors when a children is contemplating thoughts of suicide.  Was it just the lawyer doing his/her job, stretching to find something not negative about the client?  Or was the lawyer actually believing the grades would make a real difference to the outcome?  As in, "Yes, the elementary school child was wanting to die kill himself but at least his grades were okay, maybe even enough not to have to repeat the grade, so there is no basis to change custody."

[Matt]

This specific issue - follow the court order or pay the costs incurred because you didn't - isn't about soul, it's about money.

Every dollar Mom has to pay your lawyer, because she misbehaved, is a dollar she can't pay her own lawyer.  So it's in her lawyer's interest to advise her client to act right.

[livednlearned]

I hadn't heard that your custody hearing went in your favor, Nope! That's great. 

One of the dirty secrets of family court is that you become the enforcer of the court order. And that means paying a lawyer to represent you when you try to enforce the order. I've had to pay my attorney to collect attorney fees from prior hearings three times. The upside is the downside in all three cases. The downside was having to enforce the order and that costs money, the upside is that non-compliance really backfired on N/BPDx. There was so much non-compliance going on that he ultimately lost visitation. All of it.

Unfortunately, it takes a lot of documentation and time to really p*ss off a judge. Biomom is on her way to doing that, it sounds like. The best strategy is to save everything up like you're doing and hope for the best. No matter what the judge orders, it's not likely she will pay unless threatened with jail. The judge did that to N/BPDx but you don't hear that happening much on these boards.

My ex also pretended to not receive emails, and like you and your H, I phrased everything as "I will assume no response is affirmation." It ended up working in my favor because no response usually meant N/BPDx didn't see S13.

The heart-breaking part is dealing with the kids and their hurt feelings.

[maxen]

One downside about my lawyer is that he said he'll defend just about anyone based on the concept that even a bad person gets the best defense possible.

 

right, but he's professionally bound to do just that, the idea being that the contest of good lawyering improves the legal system. a lawyer has some discretion over the cases he takes, but i'm not sure how much.

Me, I find it hard to suspend my moral judgment

which is one of two reasons i chose to stay in academics and not pursue the law. the other reason was the lawyers themselves.

sorry about the derail.

i know that on some programs you can attach an instruction to an email that requires notice of receipt. and if it doesn't bounce back, the other party probably got it anyway, though i don't know if that would stand up in court, emails do get lost. but Matt et al. have given better ideas.