research on microdoses of lithium and suicide reduction

[SeaSprite]

I read and article recently in the NY Times about some research that correlates Lithium in the water supply (it is a naturally occurring element in some areas, not something anyone puts in the water) with lower levels of suicides in the area. Some researchers are speculating that lithium might be a micronutrient (1000's x lower does than those prescribed for bipolar), something that we actually do better with as a regular part of our diet, but there isn't a ton of research on it yet.

You can buy micro doses of lithium over the counter, or lithium water. Has anyone had any experience with this?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Elbry]

I read that article too, it was very interesting.  My DD15 was started on low dose Lithium specifically to lower her suicidal impulses. 

[nzmum]

 

Can't post much - need to head to the shops to get some!    kidding!

Thanks - will look at the article online - don't suppose you have a date for the article?

[SeaSprite]

I think this was it, I did more internet reading after I read the first article (as you might expect I found more quacks than serious research.)

www.nytimes.com/2014/09/14/opinion/sunday/should-we-all-take-a-bit-of-lithium.html?_r=0 

[pessim-optimist]

That sounds interesting.

I think the point being that it would be micro-doses as larger doses do tend to have detrimental side-effects over a long period of time.

Our bodies are so intricate and complex, and we still know so little.

[theplotthickens]

There are many possible reasons and  implications for the reduction in suicide rates.  There are too many variables here, I wonder if the study taken something as simple as weather and climate differences into account?  For example, rape rates go up as ice cream sales go up.  So should we all stop eating ice cream?

I don't think lithium deficiency is any cause for concern in Western society.  It may, however, indadvertently treat the undiagnosed mentally ill, thereby reducing suicide rates some.  Really, there are too many other variables.   Taking lithium is more likely to cause toxicity and harm than good, if done without a doctors supervision and proper diagnostics.

[SeaSprite]

Yes, it looks like the amounts they are talking about are very small, below known toxicity levels.

My older d had a bipolar diagnosis for a little while and was on lithium, and then developed low thyroid. She could have had low thyroid anyway, and they only caught it because of the blood tests they do when you are on lithium, but hypothyroidism can also be a side effect of lithium that can persist after stopping taking it, so we'll never know.

She and a different P have now decided she is not bipolar, but that the symptoms they were labeling hypomania were actually her anxiety/OCD winding her up, so no more lithium for her. She's doing really well with an antidepressant and some anxiety meds. She's a convert to better living through medicine. Trick is getting the right meds.

I would love to see more research done on the micro-doses and whether there is really a measurable effect. Maybe when I grow up I should go back to school and get into biomedical research.

[theplotthickens]

I plan on doing some biochemical research of my own this week-end.  Mixology: quest for the perfect martini.  I have heard that this is very promising research and need to do some experiments.  Which is better, wet or dry? Lemon or olives?  :D

My dd is bipolar, has the personality disorder (now they are not sure if she is more borderline or more anti-social), and had ADHD/ODD.  Without meds, my dd would probably have hurt somebody or even killed herself or somebody else by now.  Meds are a wonder and a blessing! Biochemical research is a wonderful field, and we are still in the dark ages with it.  We know almost nothing about how the meds work, and why they work on the brain.  Even brain science is in its infancy.  I am very interested in neuroscience, but am daunted by the amount of classes I'd  need to get a degree.  I bought a couple textbooks, and read those.  I have titles, if you're interested.

Cheers!

[SeaSprite]

There are some who recommend vodka for a martini, but I find that line of research to be a dead end, I have found much better results with gin. I do have more research to do on the lemon or olive question however. 

[pessim-optimist]

I plan on doing some biochemical research of my own this week-end.  Mixology: quest for the perfect martini.  I have heard that this is very promising research and need to do some experiments.  Which is better, wet or dry? Lemon or olives?  :D

There are some who recommend vodka for a martini, but I find that line of research to be a dead end, I have found much better results with gin. I do have more research to do on the lemon or olive question however. 

Don't forget to report your scientific findings! 

[llbee814]

My dd19 is also bipolar.  While side effects of antipsychotics became beyond frightening (and having her go toxic on lithium was pretty scary, too!) I definitely believe meds were necessary to get her through the worst of it.  She has been med free for quite some time now as the benefits stopped outweighing the risks.  It's not great and isn't easy, but it's just the way it goes.  She's still here and even through all the craziness, we can still have good times together.  The next day, she might hate me and wish me dead... .and that's why it's important to keep the vodka in the freezer!    Frozen vodka makes the best martini ever!  I like mine with olives (preferably queen olives stuffed with jalapenos) and "dirty" with olive juice in them.  Cheers!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[mama72]

I bought a couple textbooks, and read those.  I have titles, if you're interested.

I would be interested in those titles. Thanks!

[SeaSprite]

I definitely believe meds were necessary to get her through the worst of it.

I recently read a really good book "My Fluorescent God" written by man who years ago had a psychotic break. It's a little off topic, (not BPD) but I bring it up because he does a really nice job of describing how it felt to be on the receiving end of the mental health care system. He uses notes from the health care professionals, taped interviews from after his recovery, and his own journals to recreate his experience. He later went on to become a therapist himself, and he includes discussions at the end of the book with other mental health specialists sort of dissecting his experience and what was helpful or not helpful during that time. 

[mama72]

I definitely believe meds were necessary to get her through the worst of it.

I recently read a really good book "My Fluorescent God" written by man who years ago had a psychotic break. It's a little off topic, (not BPD) but I bring it up because he does a really nice job of describing how it felt to be on the receiving end of the mental health care system. He uses notes from the health care professionals, taped interviews from after his recovery, and his own journals to recreate his experience. He later went on to become a therapist himself, and he includes discussions at the end of the book with other mental health specialists sort of dissecting his experience and what was helpful or not helpful during that time. 

Great recommendation, SeaSprite. I may start a thread on books that have been helpful during our BPD journey. Not all books have to be specifically BPD to be helpful, hopeful, or inspiring!

[nzmum]

Thanks for the link SeaSprite

Fascinating.  Not surprised at the comment that pharmaceutical co.s see no need to push this from a financial reward point of view.

Have a really great health shop locally.  Think I may pop in and see what they know about lithium.

[theplotthickens]

Yes, my results were fantastic! 

1) gin, not vodka,  is preferred for the healthful botanicals

2) olives are more tantalizingly salty to the taste buds... .and provide needed minerals

3) adding olive juice increases the benefits of #2

4) the healing properties need to be researched further, but the following mix makes  a good start to your own studies:  2 oz Beefeater, 0.5 oz Lillet, splash of olive juice, 3 olives for garnish.  Stir, don't shake.

Good martinis are associated with reduced heart disease and increases sense of mental wellness.  Try it for yourself. 

[SeaSprite]

I just found an unopened jar of martini olives when sorting out the pantry today ( had to rearrange because the dog has decided opening all the bags of pasta and boxes of cereal he can reach is a fun way to keep busy when I'm gone.)

I'll have to see if I can replicate your results!

Cheers!