Palimony #2

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi all -

Well, since the cops came and took her away... .it seems like a week has passed, but I guess it was on Tuesday.

Monday she came in to work and "served" me with a phony parenting plan and disrupted the whole team.

And yesterday she showed up at my house, and the cops came to take her away.

The cop told me to file for a Stalking order.

I am meeting with an attorney tomorrow.

I am worried about enflaming the situation. She is pregnant, and claiming it is mine. I can't be sure... .

The laws here in Oregon are very strict about child support. I make substantially more money than she does, and I believe she is unfit to be a parent, despite also having some good qualities.

She deceived me in to pregnancy, if it is indeed my genetic content, and my counselor had us sign a sperm donor agreement that probably has no legal merit.

In any case, she started with the threats and projections after I tried to take some space away... .and I am scared for my livelihood and ability to save and live a comfortable life.

The child courts are extremely biased towards men, and I feel like I am heading in to an "unjust storm".

At this point, I want damage control.

Any ideas how I can minimize damage to myself and if the unborn child is indeed my responsibility, to the child?

I don't want this woman to be a thorn in my side for the rest of my life. I have aspirations to do great things and have a great life with healthy relationships and a real family one day.

If you need some background please read pregnancy trap post.

Right now I am going through phone/text records and preparing documentation for the attorney meetings.

It's tough to gauge whether her abandonment rage was driving the vengeful and agressive behaviors, and whether or not when she calms down she will keep going for the jugular.

Stoic

[stoic83]

Hi all -

Well, since the cops came and took her away... .it seems like a week has passed, but I guess it was on Tuesday.

Monday she came in to work and "served" me with a phony parenting plan and disrupted the whole team.

And yesterday she showed up at my house, and the cops came to take her away.

The cop told me to file for a Stalking order.

I am meeting with an attorney tomorrow.

I am worried about enflaming the situation. She is pregnant, and claiming it is mine. I can't be sure... .

The laws here in Oregon are very strict about child support. I make substantially more money than she does, and I believe she is unfit to be a parent, despite also having some good qualities.

She deceived me in to pregnancy, if it is indeed my genetic content, and my counselor had us sign a sperm donor agreement that probably has no legal merit.

In any case, she started with the threats and projections after I tried to take some space away... .and I am scared for my livelihood and ability to save and live a comfortable life.

The child courts are extremely biased towards men, and I feel like I am heading in to an "unjust storm".

At this point, I want damage control.

Any ideas how I can minimize damage to myself and if the unborn child is indeed my responsibility, to the child?

I don't want this woman to be a thorn in my side for the rest of my life. I have aspirations to do great things and have a great life with healthy relationships and a real family one day.

If you need some background please read pregnancy trap post.

Right now I am going through phone/text records and preparing documentation for the attorney meetings.

It's tough to gauge whether her abandonment rage was driving the vengeful and agressive behaviors, and whether or not when she calms down she will keep going for the jugular.

Stoic

[catclaw]

hey stoic 

first of all - my DH was is a similar situation. Idk, but pregnancy trapping seems to be a thing somehow :/...

where I live, the support system is very different i would guess, but there are some thing I want to tell you (as a new wife of someone who has experiences the same fears you are having right now)

1. yes, we also made the experience that mothers are everything to courts and so on. esp. if the BPDmom is someone who's amazing at manipulating, which is a trait that comes with the illness. reading about precedent cases might get you desperate, but there are a few things you can do:

- have everything (!) documented. make a word/excel document which lists EVERYTHING, every conversation, every incident. Also the positive ones! Like "today we met up for a talk about this and that and she was punctual and open-minded" or something like that. make a file with all the papers you get from doctors, courts, child services.

- best way for conversation: E-Mail! neither whatsapp, nor telephone calls, nor text messages will be accepted when it comes to court (at least where we live, that's was child services told us). she might not want to agree, but that's ok (think about what that means for her, having everything in written form). have your attorney tell her to. worked for us.

2. your financial situation WILL definitely become stressed at some points. it is unfair. DH works a lot, SS used to wear only old stuff he wouldn't fit in anymore, and BPDm went from one concert/festival/party to the next with the support she got. thing is: you can't do anything about it. you can only try to make the best out of it. BPDm begged my DH for money like every week for stuff (he broke his CD player, give me money to buy a new one". he said "you get child support, it's all in there, learn to get along with it". it's all about boundaries. if the kiddo needed stuff, we gladly got it for him and kept it at our place. you wouldn't believe how much christmas and bday presents were sold by her shortly after. but when the kid is with you, you can do anything to show him how to get along with the money you have. for SS it was important to see how there's both people in a household working to provide everything we need. it's your chance to be a role model. and if financial things get really nasty, do you have family you can ask for help? at some points we were close to bankrupt and we STILL managed to provide child support (DH having a poorly paid job and me still in traineeship, we were in our early 20ies then) and lead a good life. you will see how you will get through these times

3. the woman IS and WILL BE more or less present for the rest of DH's life. the thing is, at a certain point YOU will be able to decide how much you let her be a thorn or how much you care about her trying to damage you. it's a hard thing to learn, we're only just in the middle of it all. the lovely people on this board helped me a lot with it. see her as a kind of scar you got for some poor decision you made which hurts every now and then, but you can keep on living your life and choose not to let the pain ruin your plans. (stupid comparison, but i hope you get the point?) DH and uBPDm ONLY communicate via E-Mail these days, you won't believe how relaxed eveything got.

4. when I see DH and SS toghether, there is no doubt about his fatherhood. they are like identical twins of different ages. sometimes you hear his mother speak when he talks (mostly when it's about finding excuses for anything), but he just IS little DH. you won't believe how relieving it is to see them together as father and son. he's SS' rock in a world he wouldn't otherwise have any chance to grew up and develop in a good way. I'm just daddy's wife, but what we do here is the right thing. provide a save haven in an otherwise distorted reality he grew up with. if SS didn't exist, life would be easier, granted. but now that he's here, he's such a gift to us.

[stoic83]

hey stoic 

first of all - my DH was is a similar situation. Idk, but pregnancy trapping seems to be a thing somehow :/...

where I live, the support system is very different i would guess, but there are some thing I want to tell you (as a new wife of someone who has experiences the same fears you are having right now)

1. yes, we also made the experience that mothers are everything to courts and so on. esp. if the BPDmom is someone who's amazing at manipulating, which is a trait that comes with the illness. reading about precedent cases might get you desperate, but there are a few things you can do:

- have everything (!) documented. make a word/excel document which lists EVERYTHING, every conversation, every incident. Also the positive ones! Like "today we met up for a talk about this and that and she was punctual and open-minded" or something like that. make a file with all the papers you get from doctors, courts, child services.

- best way for conversation: E-Mail! neither whatsapp, nor telephone calls, nor text messages will be accepted when it comes to court (at least where we live, that's was child services told us). she might not want to agree, but that's ok (think about what that means for her, having everything in written form). have your attorney tell her to. worked for us.

2. your financial situation WILL definitely become stressed at some points. it is unfair. DH works a lot, SS used to wear only old stuff he wouldn't fit in anymore, and BPDm went from one concert/festival/party to the next with the support she got. thing is: you can't do anything about it. you can only try to make the best out of it. BPDm begged my DH for money like every week for stuff (he broke his CD player, give me money to buy a new one". he said "you get child support, it's all in there, learn to get along with it". it's all about boundaries. if the kiddo needed stuff, we gladly got it for him and kept it at our place. you wouldn't believe how much christmas and bday presents were sold by her shortly after. but when the kid is with you, you can do anything to show him how to get along with the money you have. for SS it was important to see how there's both people in a household working to provide everything we need. it's your chance to be a role model. and if financial things get really nasty, do you have family you can ask for help? at some points we were close to bankrupt and we STILL managed to provide child support (DH having a poorly paid job and me still in traineeship, we were in our early 20ies then) and lead a good life. you will see how you will get through these times

3. the woman IS and WILL BE more or less present for the rest of DH's life. the thing is, at a certain point YOU will be able to decide how much you let her be a thorn or how much you care about her trying to damage you. it's a hard thing to learn, we're only just in the middle of it all. the lovely people on this board helped me a lot with it. see her as a kind of scar you got for some poor decision you made which hurts every now and then, but you can keep on living your life and choose not to let the pain ruin your plans. (stupid comparison, but i hope you get the point?) DH and uBPDm ONLY communicate via E-Mail these days, you won't believe how relaxed eveything got.

4. when I see DH and SS toghether, there is no doubt about his fatherhood. they are like identical twins of different ages. sometimes you hear his mother speak when he talks (mostly when it's about finding excuses for anything), but he just IS little DH. you won't believe how relieving it is to see them together as father and son. he's SS' rock in a world he wouldn't otherwise have any chance to grew up and develop in a good way. I'm just daddy's wife, but what we do here is the right thing. provide a save haven in an otherwise distorted reality he grew up with. if SS didn't exist, life would be easier, granted. but now that he's here, he's such a gift to us.

I think that's a positive way of looking at it. I think being single leaves me at a severe disadvantage. I don't have the emotional support that you provide to your husband, or help with the child. I feel like I'm just going to be her own personal ATM.

I am tired of struggling financially. I finally made it to a good spot... .and I can't even enjoy it due to what's going to happen to me.

I will get the stalking order and fight for full custody. I really am just an unwilling sperm donor, and I can't imagine the dichotomy and inner conflict in a child's mind by being tossed between 2 different value systems is healthy at all.

Stoic

Stoic

[catnap]

I think being single leaves me at a severe disadvantage. I don't have the emotional support that you provide to your husband, or help with the child. I feel like I'm just going to be her own personal ATM.

Your Mom seems to be supportive. . .do you think she/other family would be willing to help if the child is yours? 

[catclaw]

if you feel that you're able to do it, go for the full custody!

i can totally understand you feel that way... let me tell you, it's all about boundaries...

i really hope you find someone to support you in all that. there are some stepmoms here who say that the pwBPD in the background made their relationship a stronger one.

do you have any friends woth kids or families in the neighborhood? i know some families who help each other out.

[stoic83]

if you feel that you're able to do it, go for the full custody!

i can totally understand you feel that way... let me tell you, it's all about boundaries...

i really hope you find someone to support you in all that. there are some stepmoms here who say that the pwBPD in the background made their relationship a stronger one.

do you have any friends woth kids or families in the neighborhood? i know some families who help each other out.

I have a friend. I met with an attorney and he told me that I should get a TRO. He said I have good cause to be fearful for my physical safety.

I don't have many friends here in Portland. However, I can definitely afford child care, and I can definitely spend my free time taking care of a child... .I can also probably meet someone nice who would be empathetic to my situation and help.

My sister just went through a rough breakup. Maybe I can convince her to move out here to help me, and cover her living costs.

I am not sure if the child is mine at this point. I think I need to wait, until the child is born and take a paternity test. I am unsure whether to voluntarily take a paternity test or not. I believe the mother might refuse if I have a protective order against her.

My aunt and uncle are supportive. They are both child psychologists and live in Hawaii. I might need to move closer to them if I can get full custody, so that I can start therapy for the child at a young age in case he/she has a genetic disposition towards a personality disorder.

While I do believe that nurture is far more important than nature, I do believe that this child may have psychological abnormalities resulting from a stressful pregnancy and/or genetic predisposition towards psychiatric disorders.

Stoic

Stoic

[Grey Kitty]

Stoic, I think you are doing a great job here. Boundaries to protect yourself are important.

Knowing what you want and don't want is also important.

This seems to be what you want, but I'm not sure you stated it directly: You don't want a romantic r/s with this woman. Don't want to live with her or move in with her.

You have also stated that you don't want to co-parent with her. There are several possibilities... .only one will happen:

1. A child who is biologically yours is born in ~6 months.

2. A child who is not biologically yours is born in ~6 months.

3. She doesn't have a child. (She could be lying about being pregnant, miscarries, have an abortion, etc.)

4. She does have a child, but gives it up for adoption.

You have no way of knowing yet which way it will go.

Possibility #3 or #4 mean you can be safely done with her. That was easy.

Others have recommended that you force her to prove paternity in court with a DNA test after the child is born. This sounds like your best move.

Possibility #2 means that you can also be safely done with her. The child is in for a rough start at life, but it isn't your problem, and you can easily walk away.

That leaves the last chance, and here you have to make tough choices.

You will likely be financially held responsible for this child's future.

It is your choice whether you want to fight to be involved and give this child as good a life as you can, or not. It won't be easy. It will be a long commitment. It may well be worth making anyway. I have heard you express a lot of fears that your life is over due to this, and I can understand those feelings, but I don't believe it is actually true.

You are young, there is lots of time left in your life for relationships, for your career (and income!) to grow, etc. If you choose to support this child as a parent, knowing that it will be difficult, and that you will have to give up some other things for it, I think you can be very happy and successful, even if you make this choice.

The important thing is that you recognize that you do have choices in how to deal with this situation, and pay attention, and make the choices that fit your values. When you make YOUR choice with an open heart, giving up other things not chosen feels right.

Please don't think that I'm imploring you to make the "right choice" and choose to stay involved and fight for this child in the courts. I'm not. I'm pushing you to acknowledge that it is your choice to make, and know that when you do that you will make the choice that feels right for you, and feel good about your decision 20 years from now.

[stoic83]

Stoic, I think you are doing a great job here. Boundaries to protect yourself are important.

Knowing what you want and don't want is also important.

This seems to be what you want, but I'm not sure you stated it directly: You don't want a romantic r/s with this woman. Don't want to live with her or move in with her.

You have also stated that you don't want to co-parent with her. There are several possibilities... .only one will happen:

1. A child who is biologically yours is born in ~6 months.

2. A child who is not biologically yours is born in ~6 months.

3. She doesn't have a child. (She could be lying about being pregnant, miscarries, have an abortion, etc.)

4. She does have a child, but gives it up for adoption.

You have no way of knowing yet which way it will go.

Possibility #3 or #4 mean you can be safely done with her. That was easy.

Others have recommended that you force her to prove paternity in court with a DNA test after the child is born. This sounds like your best move.

Possibility #2 means that you can also be safely done with her. The child is in for a rough start at life, but it isn't your problem, and you can easily walk away.

That leaves the last chance, and here you have to make tough choices.

You will likely be financially held responsible for this child's future.

It is your choice whether you want to fight to be involved and give this child as good a life as you can, or not. It won't be easy. It will be a long commitment. It may well be worth making anyway. I have heard you express a lot of fears that your life is over due to this, and I can understand those feelings, but I don't believe it is actually true.

You are young, there is lots of time left in your life for relationships, for your career (and income!) to grow, etc. If you choose to support this child as a parent, knowing that it will be difficult, and that you will have to give up some other things for it, I think you can be very happy and successful, even if you make this choice.

The important thing is that you recognize that you do have choices in how to deal with this situation, and pay attention, and make the choices that fit your values. When you make YOUR choice with an open heart, giving up other things not chosen feels right.

Please don't think that I'm imploring you to make the "right choice" and choose to stay involved and fight for this child in the courts. I'm not. I'm pushing you to acknowledge that it is your choice to make, and know that when you do that you will make the choice that feels right for you, and feel good about your decision 20 years from now.

I am miserable. Her parents wanted to talk to me last night and they were cruel towards me, taunting me, etc... .A lot of push pull, they showed some empathy for me, but above all they told me that their daughter has a big heart and that she cares about me and that she is acting this way because she was in an abusive relationship and is pregnant.

They told me to be a man and step up. I asked them about their daughter's mental health issues, and it was unclear... .but her father was bipolar and commited suicide when she was 7, and her sister is bipolar.

I'm going to be honest hear and tell you guys that most likely my parents suffer from personality disorders. My world has been extremely confusing. My aunt and uncle are both child psychologists, and my other uncle is a sociopath.

There are mental illnesses in both of our families.

I don't believe I have a personality disorder. I was told by my counselor that I was mildly neurotic and have some N traits. That I have an altruistic side, and am very sensitive and empathetic... .but also codependent.

Maybe I should try to help this woman through her pregnancy? Maybe she is just stalking because she has low self-esteem from having a psychopathic husband and narcissistic parents?

I don't know what I'm doing. This is all very confusing for me. Everyone's telling me to look at the red flags, look at the red flags. But I think we all have some red flags. I know that I still have red flags these days.

I came out of a 4.5 year off/on rs with a severe borderline/alcoholic and I think maybe PTSD symptoms are making this situation worse.

My family and friends are all disgusted by her behavior, but maybe I need to realize that mentally ill women are what is in my emotional blueprint.

Maybe it's my destiny? I don't know... .all I know is that I didn't take steps to protect this from happening. I am very very honest, and she is a liar... .I care about what others want for their lives, but maybe she does as well... .and is just suffering from abandonment rage because she has borderline traits and erotomania?

I am sick... .I don't want to go through the courts, because they will kill me financially. I will have to move in to a poor neighborhood and be surrounded by people who don't share the same values as me due to socioeconomic differences, which is why I feel I am in this position in the first place.

I am wavering back and forth... .I feel if I get the protective order and cut things off with her, it will make things worse. That things will be pushed in to the courts and that I will be a slave to the system and this woman.

That i will spend 10k in legal fees, and hit with the maximum. Child support + child care... .full pop. And she will have my income, and I will have hers... .and I will be broke and struggling and she will be better off than she has ever been.

... .so ___ing unfair.

[ForeverDad]

Life isn't fair.  Family court isn't fair.  It all just IS.  So what to do?  Live life to the full within reasonable constraints, yet focusing more on the positives rather than obsessing on the negatives.  You're obsessing on the possibilities, the negative ones.  That's not productive, you'll just send yourself spinning out of control.  Focus on taking care of yourself for now.

Just as you can't gulp down an entire pint of water in one huge gulp, you can't figure this all out at once.  Take it piece by piece, in manageable chunks that you can handle.

How much input are you getting from your child psychologist relatives?  What do they think of your looping around to long term worries over and over?  They should have a grounding effect on you, calming your fears and worries while gently preparing you for how to deal with potential fatherhood.

[stoic83]

Life isn't fair.  Family court isn't fair.  It all just IS.  So what to do?  Live life to the full within reasonable constraints, yet focusing more on the positives rather than obsessing on the negatives.  You're obsessing on the possibilities, the negative ones.  That's not productive, you'll just send yourself spinning out of control.  Focus on taking care of yourself for now.

Just as you can't gulp down an entire pint of water in one huge gulp, you can't figure this all out at once.  Take it piece by piece, in manageable chunks that you can handle.

How much input are you getting from your child psychologist relatives?  What do they think of your looping around to long term worries over and over?  They should have a grounding effect on you, calming your fears and worries while gently preparing you for how to deal with potential fatherhood.

I'm sorry that I forgot to thank Grey Kitty for her amazing message. I'm in so much angst, I'm acting selfishly... .

Okay I am trying to focus on the positives. I am trying to take care of myself foreverdad. I'm so exhausted.

I can barely work, my mind is just spinning and spinning.

Im getting a good amount of input from my child psychologist relatives and my therapist and also parents. They all agree that focusing on what's going to happen 5 or 6 months from now is not productive, and that I need to try to be happy and live a fulfilling life.

I don't think I see my therapist enough. Once a week isn't enough for me. I called the domestic violence hotline at work today.

I feel like if I can smooth things over with her, that she won't take my money. I was homeless 4 or 5 months ago due to my business being drained by a bad business partner (eg he stole over 12k and fled the country)... .I clawed my way back to some semblance of financial stability, and now it's all in jeopardy.

I can't handle this roller-coaster anymore. I just want to get off. I was almost there. Now I have to pay this woman all my savings/spending money and live like a poor entrepreneur again, even though I have a really good job? It's because our incomes are so different... .it's so ___ed up.

I just can't win my friend. I know I will survive and be happy again... .but right now it just is all bad. Just feel spirtually sick and tired and don't want to do anything. I don't know how to explain it, but I've been here before and I just can't do this anymore.

[Grey Kitty]

I'm sorry that I forgot to thank Grey Kitty for her amazing message.

That's OK, you are welcome. (FYI, I'm male. No offense taken )

Okay I am trying to focus on the positives. I am trying to take care of myself foreverdad. I'm so exhausted.

I can barely work, my mind is just spinning and spinning.

I've been there man. In fact I'm going through my own crap, and have been spent the last two weeks accomplishing about one day's work on the thing that is supposed to be my first priority... .spent a few days repairing my computer's hard drive troubles, and lots of posting here. (I'm not counting how much I've improved at Bejeweled Blitz! as productivity )

I am not surprised that focusing on the positive is impossible given what you are looking at and the fear you have. Next time you catch yourself going in these negative circles, say to your mind "Thank you for sharing that with me. You may go now." and step off that path. Try focusing on your breathing.

In your shoes, I'd suggest:

1. Taking care of yourself (which means NC or LC with her and her family, at least until you are feeling emotionally stable)

2. Accepting that the sucky unfair aspects of your life are real, and hiding from them can't help you.

As a dear friend of mine has said "Once I stopped arguing with reality, things got a whole bunch better for me!"

Hang in there. It can and will get better.

 GK

[ImaFita]

Life isn't fair.  Family court isn't fair.  It all just IS.  So what to do?  Live life to the full within reasonable constraints, yet focusing more on the positives rather than obsessing on the negatives.  You're obsessing on the possibilities, the negative ones.  That's not productive, you'll just send yourself spinning out of control.  Focus on taking care of yourself for now.

Just as you can't gulp down an entire pint of water in one huge gulp, you can't figure this all out at once.  Take it piece by piece, in manageable chunks that you can handle.

How much input are you getting from your child psychologist relatives?  What do they think of your looping around to long term worries over and over?  They should have a grounding effect on you, calming your fears and worries while gently preparing you for how to deal with potential fatherhood.

I'm sorry that I forgot to thank Grey Kitty for her amazing message. I'm in so much angst, I'm acting selfishly... .

Okay I am trying to focus on the positives. I am trying to take care of myself foreverdad. I'm so exhausted.

I can barely work, my mind is just spinning and spinning.

Im getting a good amount of input from my child psychologist relatives and my therapist and also parents. They all agree that focusing on what's going to happen 5 or 6 months from now is not productive, and that I need to try to be happy and live a fulfilling life.

I don't think I see my therapist enough. Once a week isn't enough for me. I called the domestic violence hotline at work today.

I feel like if I can smooth things over with her, that she won't take my money. I was homeless 4 or 5 months ago due to my business being drained by a bad business partner (eg he stole over 12k and fled the country)... .I clawed my way back to some semblance of financial stability, and now it's all in jeopardy.

I can't handle this roller-coaster anymore. I just want to get off. I was almost there. Now I have to pay this woman all my savings/spending money and live like a poor entrepreneur again, even though I have a really good job? It's because our incomes are so different... .it's so ___ed up.

I just can't win my friend. I know I will survive and be happy again... .but right now it just is all bad. Just feel spirtually sick and tired and don't want to do anything. I don't know how to explain it, but I've been here before and I just can't do this anymore.

I accidently posted within a quote, opps... Anyway, fixed.


In regards to a similar situation, I found things got better once I stopped putting pressure on myself - and taken on issues 'one at a time'.

When I tried to solved all these issues at once, I'd only end up confused and frustrated.

I understand that you are probably extremely angry/disappointed, because you probably had life mapped out a little bit - now things have changed.

But, you don't have to look at this situation as a negative one - sure there are some negative aspects - but overall you still have MANY positive things to look forward to. In my experience, once I started to see some positives and focus on those, I was able to tick off issues one by one - without feeling so much anger, confusion and frustration.

[stoic83]

I accidently posted within a quote, opps... Anyway, fixed.


In regards to a similar situation, I found things got better once I stopped putting pressure on myself - and taken on issues 'one at a time'.

When I tried to solved all these issues at once, I'd only end up confused and frustrated.

I understand that you are probably extremely angry/disappointed, because you probably had life mapped out a little bit - now things have changed.

But, you don't have to look at this situation as a negative one - sure there are some negative aspects - but overall you still have MANY positive things to look forward to. In my experience, once I started to see some positives and focus on those, I was able to tick off issues one by one - without feeling so much anger, confusion and frustration.

I'm starting to feel better. I reached out to her and she showed me texts between her and her husband colluding to destroy my reputation together after I called the cops when she was stalking/harassing me. She is in therapy, and I recommended DBT.

My shame and anger are starting to dissipate. She clearly has a personality disorder, and her mental illness and poor character led her to deceive me, a kind and trusting person, due to the abuse and neglect she received as a child, and her desperation for a child and a healthy partner.

Sadly, all will lose in this situation... .but that's a fact of life. I was in a vulnerable position, I trusted her, and she instinctively took advantage of my naievty. She's a compulsive liar and I explained to her how it wouldn't be possible for me to coparent with her, due to the impossibility of trust.

I told her I would pay her what I could afford, but that if she chose to go through the government... .I would quit my job and leave the state and start a business.

Naturally the arrears will pile, but I refuse to pay for her deception and the abuse of a child for the rest of my life. I will pay what I can afford, and keep emotional distance from the child as my love for a child would surely start a custody battle which would be bad for all parties.

If she isn't satisfied with what I am willing to offer, then I will go to another state and either pursue 1099 or under the table.

I'd rather be poor and single and away from the abuse, then be poor and enabling abuse and having my love for a child be used as a weapon.

She said she would talk to her counselor about DBT... .and I can see the shame/guilt in her eyes.

In the end, I can't trust her with anything... .certainly not a child. And I have better things to do with my life then fight in some custody battle where there is nothing to gain. I want to find a nice woman and have children with her... .not be paying for someone else's family for the rest of my days.

I gross 7k per month.

Take home 4200.

Under law I would probably be taking home close to 2500. (child support plus child care w/ limited visitation)

So 2600 for me. 1600 for her (850 child support + 750 child care). 3000 for the government. Not worth it.

Her take home income would go from 1600 -> 3200 + tax break = 3500.

So her = 3500.

Me = 2600.

Child = abused.

Me = abused.

Her = awarded.

Me = go to phoenix and rent a studio and work on a company.

Stoic

[Grey Kitty]

   Keep putting one foot in front of the other Stoic.

Do it long enough and you will find that you are going someplace worthwhile.

[stoic83]

 Keep putting one foot in front of the other Stoic.

Do it long enough and you will find that you are going someplace worthwhile.

Thanks Grey Kitty. I feel trapped. I spoke with her last night... .and I know she is trying to maintain control over me, but appearing to lessen her grip on my throat. She said she would put father unknown on the birth certificate. But if she goes for assistance, the government will come after me. She said all she needs is money for child care... .well child care is 800 dollars a month. Why again am I paying for this child I didn't want, with a woman who performed intimate violence against me?

This is my worst nightmare, being forced in to fatherhood by an abusive and controlling woman.

Stealing my money and limiting my financial freedom, and using my healthy desire to keep a family unit together to keep me in the fold.

I feel sick man. Really sick. Using the institution as a proxy abuser... .just spirtually sick.

Stoic

Stoic.

[Grey Kitty]

This is my worst nightmare, being forced in to fatherhood by an abusive and controlling woman.

Stealing my money and limiting my financial freedom, and using my healthy desire to keep a family unit together to keep me in the fold.

I feel sick man.

Hang in there.

When you can, spend some time with those feelings. It is hard, and you want to REACT to them.

I told her I would pay her what I could afford, but that if she chose to go through the government... .I would quit my job and leave the state and start a business.

This sort of stuff... .it might be the right thing for you to do. It might not be the right thing for you to do. That really is YOUR decision, and I'm not going to second-guess you on your choice.

I will, however, say that I don't believe you are saying that sort of thing for the right reason. You are feeling trapped, hurt, angry, sick, etc... .and losing yourself in those feelings, then blindly reacting to them (and her actions).

Try to spend some more time directly with those feelings, trying not to get lost in IMMEDIATE ACTION PLANS based on them. That isn't the way to make good decisions. (Ask me how I know!  )

In the meantime... .take care of yourself... .protect yourself... .and that means absolutely minimize contact with her. As a very wise and dear friend told me... .you will just know when you are ready to face her.

[catnap]

She cannot be trusted.  Get your RO.  She an say all these things of looking into DBT therapy, listing the father as unknown, but in the end you have no idea what she will do.  Disordered people say a lot of things.  

I reached out to her and she showed me texts between her and her husband colluding to destroy my reputation together after I called the cops when she was stalking/harassing me.

Do everything you can to protect yourself.  

[stoic83]

She cannot be trusted.  Get your RO.  She an say all these things of looking into DBT therapy, listing the father as unknown, but in the end you have no idea what she will do.  Disordered people say a lot of things.  

I reached out to her and she showed me texts between her and her husband colluding to destroy my reputation together after I called the cops when she was stalking/harassing me.

Do everything you can to protect yourself.  

They won't give me an RO. Maybe just a stalking order.

[Grey Kitty]

She cannot be trusted.  Get your RO.  She an say all these things of looking into DBT therapy, listing the father as unknown, but in the end you have no idea what she will do.  Disordered people say a lot of things.  

I reached out to her and she showed me texts between her and her husband colluding to destroy my reputation together after I called the cops when she was stalking/harassing me.

Do everything you can to protect yourself.  

They won't give me an RO. Maybe just a stalking order.

I agree that immediate legal self-protection is the right thing for you to do. Work with the lawyer to do what you can. If you can't get a RO, get the stalking order. Collect evidence of her behavior that will help you in the future--Your chances of a fair resolution without the courts involved sound negligable. Regulars on this board who've been through the legal system can help you on specific ideas.

[stoic83]

She cannot be trusted.  Get your RO.  She an say all these things of looking into DBT therapy, listing the father as unknown, but in the end you have no idea what she will do.  Disordered people say a lot of things.  

I reached out to her and she showed me texts between her and her husband colluding to destroy my reputation together after I called the cops when she was stalking/harassing me.

Do everything you can to protect yourself.  

They won't give me an RO. Maybe just a stalking order.

I agree that immediate legal self-protection is the right thing for you to do. Work with the lawyer to do what you can. If you can't get a RO, get the stalking order. Collect evidence of her behavior that will help you in the future--Your chances of a fair resolution without the courts involved sound negligable. Regulars on this board who've been through the legal system can help you on specific ideas.

I don't see how the stalking order protects me from future events. Clearly I can't coparent with someone who is stalking me. It will get thrown out of court, guaranteed. She's pregnant and I'm the alleged father... .she was trying to give me a parenting plan, and asking for blood test results (excuses). The state doesn't want people slopping up the child custody system with protective orders. It's a huge profit center for them.

She can think of a million ways to wriggle her way out of it... .regardless, I have police records... .and evidence of harassment and 180 days to file the SO.

My aunt thinks that I can co-parent with her, by having clear expectations and boundaries and being a source of stability.

The potential mother seems remorseful and showed me her bad behavior, and said she doesn't want to be a bad person anymore.

She is in counseling and admits her transgressions to her therapist.

You know... .BPD is considered one of the only "treatable" PDs. With DBT, and her commitment she can get better.

It's really my only hope for a fulfilling life, and I will support and encourage her.

That's all I can do... .her mental health is not my responsibility.

Worst case scenario she gets 1500 dollars a month and full custody (impossible).

Best case scenario I get full custody and she pays 250 a month (nearly impossible).

Most likely she will start off with full custody and it will become a 50/50 split.

Once I establish a loving relationship with the child, she won't get full custody... .that's for sure.

I can be a source of stability in the child's life... .and eventually the child will prefer me. Kids are smart.

If she starts with PA or bringing abusive men in to the child's life, then she will lose custody.

She's already got marks against her... .by the police, my therapist, witnesses at my office.

I have to have SOME faith in the state courts... .no way they award her full custody.

Stoic

[catnap]

I don't see how the stalking order protects me from future events.

The stalking order protects you in the future, if she tries something again.  There is a lot of time until this baby is born, and many months to expect her to stay semi-rational and calm.  What if she decides to go by your work or home again? The police are not going to be so much in your corner if you failed to follow their advice. 

Also, please take into consideration this may be a change of tactics on her part because you did call the police. 

I do sincerely hope that she does want to get better, but sadly, many do not follow through with the treatment to do so.

Please before your time runs out to get such an order, talk to your attorney about the pro and cons of getting one. 

[stoic83]

I have 180 days.

The cons of applying for a stalking order, is that it will trigger her rejection/abandonment rage and set me up as an adversary in court.

If she gets out of it, I'm dead meat (financially/custody wise)

She won't come to my home or work again. The cops scared the ___ out of her.

I am trying to build stability in our interactions so that she doesn't come after me through the courts.

Regardless of what's right or wrong... .I am in a pickle.

My emotional freedom isn't worth living in a shack and paying for the abuse of a child.

My Uncle told me to "keep my friends close, but my enemies closer".

This way there won't be any surprise attacks.

People with BPD aren't purposefully evil. They are mentally ill.

You are right to suggest she may not follow through with DBT.

That's not my responsibility... .having a stalking order against the potential mother of my child doesn't make any sense, logistically speaking and it will most likely get thrown out of court!

Do I really want to miss out on the birth of my child, because I'm afraid of her?

NO.

Stoic

[Grey Kitty]

Sorry stoic, I'm not buying it--it sounds like you are just making up as many excuses not to do it as you can.

First you are saying you are afraid she will get upset with you over doing this.

(You have already said you couldn't possibly co-parent with her!)

You say she's too scared to come to your home or workplace.

You've also described her as being unpredictable. (I'd note that BPD *IS* unpredictable)

Then you say your uncle said to "keep your enemies closer" so there won't be any surprise attacks. Not buying that one either--With BPD, the closer (emotionally) you are to them, the more difficult it is for them to cope, and the more likely they are to dysregulate at you in amazing and bizarre ways.

And saying that a stalking order makes no sense, and will get thrown out of court--You aren't a lawyer. Ask your lawyer what the odds of success are. If you aren't sure, consult a second lawyer for another opinion.

Instead of arguing with yourself like this, consider the scenarios available to you, and make sure you know how you rank them:

1. Resume a relationship with her, marry her, and be a father to this child.

2. Cut all ties, paying as much as you are forced to to support this child.

3. Be civil with her, and co-parent with her.

3-A. If she doesn't want to co-parent with you, fight for your share of custody of this child.

3-B. If she makes a mess of things, fight to reduce her custody and influence with the courts.

If you don't know what you want, you are pretty much certain to react to whatever she does. Since she has BPD, her emotions and actions will be flying off in all different directions, and you will be off chasing them all in order.

This won't work well for you.

[ForeverDad]

When you called 911, what would have happened if you said, "Last week a woman was here and wouldn't leave."  What would have been the response?  Likely, "We call us back if it happens again, this line is for ongoing incidents and emergencies."

What is the difference?  Timing.  Once the urgency is past, the entire system slows down and is reluctant to act.  What the other members were mentioning is that if you don't seek protection now while the incident is recent then unless she does that again or does something else actionable in the professionals' eyes, you won't get it in the future.  And if she is careful to keep her future actions below the level of being 'actionable' then you may have to live with her behaviors without much police or court support.

This is a tough call.  This is not about whether she loves you or whether you love her or the child.  It's about you setting up a framework of protection from future unwanted behaviors.  Yes, taking action on this may trigger her but frankly almost anything can trigger her over the next several months (and if the baby is yours then the next couple decades).

So it might be a question of "when" not "if".

And that brings us to the second aspect.  I have to admit this characterization does have some measure of truth to it:  If a man brings an allegation against a woman it may be an uphill struggle to get action.  If a woman brings an allegation against a man it may be relatively easy for her to even claim something as vague as 'fearfulness' and get action.

So the point is that you are in a relatively rare window of opportunity for the moment, but it is closing as the incident recedes into the past.  It is good you have filed a report with the police and they should have their own report or log of the incident, it's possible it may help in your defense a little if/when she makes allegations against you in the future.

The others have made good observations.

Then you say your uncle said to "keep your enemies closer" so there won't be any surprise attacks. Not buying that one either--With BPD, the closer (emotionally) you are to them, the more difficult it is for them to cope, and the more likely they are to dysregulate at you in amazing and bizarre ways.

If you don't know what you want, you are pretty much certain to react to whatever she does. Since she has BPD, her emotions and actions will be flying off in all different directions, and you will be off chasing them all in order.  This won't work well for you.

BPD is a disorder of mood and emotional dysregulation.  The closer you are and the more contact you have, the worse it usually gets.  It's because when they see and hear you they're distracted and even blinded by the perceived emotional baggage of the relationship.

[catclaw]

The cons of applying for a stalking order, is that it will trigger her rejection/abandonment rage and set me up as an adversary in court.

If she gets out of it, I'm dead meat (financially/custody wise)

If i got this sentence right (which I hope) there's some thruth in it, unfortunately.

We had a stalking order against DH's uBPDxgf set up (or at least our lawyer warned her about it if she didn't stop calling at every day and night-tine and yelling and threatening me. After the warning she did stop for a year). In the end, child services used it AGAINST my DH, telling him they didn't feel he was emotionally stable enough for parenting and that they didn't see him providing SS a healthy relationship with his mother (if that's even possible). It's a boundary, but it's also an act of provocation that CAN (!) be used against the one who sets it up.

Still,I live in another part of the world, where this is a case that happens every.single.day.

[stoic83]

The cons of applying for a stalking order, is that it will trigger her rejection/abandonment rage and set me up as an adversary in court.

If she gets out of it, I'm dead meat (financially/custody wise)

If i got this sentence right (which I hope) there's some thruth in it, unfortunately.

We had a stalking order against DH's uBPDxgf set up (or at least our lawyer warned her about it if she didn't stop calling at every day and night-tine and yelling and threatening me. After the warning she did stop for a year). In the end, child services used it AGAINST my DH, telling him they didn't feel he was emotionally stable enough for parenting and that they didn't see him providing SS a healthy relationship with his mother (if that's even possible). It's a boundary, but it's also an act of provocation that CAN (!) be used against the one who sets it up.

Still,I live in another part of the world, where this is a case that happens every.single.day.

Catclaw... .this is exactly what I felt would've happened. By getting a stalking order against her... .she would've slipped out of it, they would automatically award her full custody, as one of the main points is "each parent must be encouraging of the other parent having a relationship with the child". I feel it would've automatically granted her full custody and me as the paying sperm donor. Giving me what I wanted "No Contact" with her. They could've argued that just because she was emotionally abusive towards me and has mental illness, doesn't mean it would be what's in the best interest of the child.

Also, I don't want full custody of an infant. I don't have any help, and I don't have a maternal instinct. While, I'm a very kind and loving and sensitive person, I don't have the drive to be a single parent. I would much rather give the child to a loving couple to give it the best chance at a good life. Since, I really have no choice at all in the matter... .what's a better option? I would much rather focus on my passions, and provide service through innovation, writing, etc. Maybe it's my destiny to be poor. 5 months ago I was on food stamps after a business partner embezzled all company funds, battered me, and then fled the country.

I want to start a business, help the economy, give people jobs, come up with new ideas... .not be a full time single dad. I would like to have children down the road with a kind and loving neurotypcial woman that I can trust on all levels.

So fighting in court over full custody is pointless. I don't want full custody of an infant, and therefore convincing the courts to let me have full custody is pointless because I'm not going to life. I would merely tell them that the child is best off with loving, adoptive parents and that I feel she's unfit... .and here's why... .evidence, police reports, threatening text messages, family situation, my counselor, police, coworkers as witnessess etc.

She knows that if she goes for the CS, that she's at risk for losing custody... .since I told her I in no way was going to invest in her raising a child due to her emotional instability and the people she surrounds herself with... .and I would fight for custody, if that was her aim, since at that point I would surely be putting the child's interests first since I would be the one paying for the raising of it. Why would I willingly pay for her to raise a child? That sounds terrible.

I am in damage control mode at this point. I am trying to prevent her from pursuing child support by remaining in a quasi-rs... .I can't start my business again if they use my imputed income for child support. While people with BPD are extremely volatile in close relationships, if she views me as a 1) father figure or 2) damaged goods she will either become a) dependent on me as a father figure and avoid cs because she knows I won't talk to her anymore or b) codependent enough to soothe her ego through care-taking.

She doesn't want to lose "me" completely, and I don't want to to pay for her to raise a child with no supervision.

She's essentially a 7 year old girl. Her father hung himself in her closet when she was 7, so I can only assume she is trapped at that age. If I "abandon her" she will destroy my life through the courts, or worse.

My only hope is to maintain LC while she gets in to DBT, and learns to regulate her behavior.

At this point I see these as my options:

1) Be in a relationship with her... .allow her to move in so I can keep an eye on her and the child and put myself at risk for false allegations, however I can put cameras in every room to document. My basic needs are met by her in a relationship... .e.g. affection, listening, emotional support. My mid-higher level needs are not met... .truth, honesty, depth, adult love, empathy, sharing values, pride in partner... .etc. This is seeming like a worse option as I continue to think about it. Who could be happy in that situation?

2) Be civil with her,  but not in a relationship... .I can try to co parent which would result in me gaining an emotional attachment to the child, and being unable to do anything about the certain maltreatment of the child due to her lack of boundaries and dysregulation bouts and need to attach to abusive men who prey on her vulnerability. I am extremely protective so it would most likely result in a long court battle, draining me of all my funds, energy, putting the child in an awful situation, and taking my focus off anything productive.

3) Run away. Before she gives birth, sign some sort of agreement with her and attorney contingent on the child being biologically related (which i will take a dna test)... .and then moving away from this city, getting a PO Box, and hoping to god she leaves me alone. If I stay around this town after she has the child and i go NC, she will make sure my life is absolute hell. I tried going NC already, and look what happened... .

I can't go NC... .she has way too much power over my freedoms... .I have no girlfriend or wife (meaning that my chance of getting custody is very low, since I'm not a good liar and don't want to take care of an infant on my own, nor can I afford a full time nanny... .etc.)

I am in counseling and trying to recover from the betrayal/deception... .and shock of perhaps becoming a father.

When I tried to go NC, she tried to ruin me and scare me in to submission... .because she was scared of losing me.

Stoic

[Grey Kitty]

Remind me... .exactly what happened when you went NC that is so terrifying to you?

Was that the incident where the police got involved? And the source of evidence you could use to get the SO against her?

[stoic83]

Remind me... .exactly what happened when you went NC that is so terrifying to you?

Was that the incident where the police got involved? And the source of evidence you could use to get the SO against her?

When I went NC... .she came to my work and "served" me with phony documents. I almost lost my job due to the Traumatic reaction I had, and the commotion it caused. I went to the police, as my boss told me I needed to do something about it. The next day she shows up at my house, and I call the police. She lies to the police about why she is there, and he threatens to arrest her. Police don't like getting lied to and he empathized with my story. He said he would support the stalking order.

I clearly told her to stop contacting me by any means. And she violated those boundaries by phone, text, at my work, and at my home... .and I was afraid for my safety.

Despite that, I backed off the protective order as I thought it would "enflame" the situation... .I feel like that things could cool down, the chances of something more fair are higher. If I keep in touch with her, I can help her correct her faulty thinking patterns... .she's honestly receptive to it to some extent. She wants to be more self aware and curb her behaviors. She's still a professional victim and potentially dangerous, potentially homicidal (her dad hung himself, and her dog was "poisoned" this week?) but it's probably just because she's ill.

-----

Her and her parents threatened me with child support calling me a "SOB" "___" and "idiot". Child support will ruin my quality of life. I make 3 times more money than her, and it will force me in to a roommate situation with no ability to save money. While I am forced to pay for her maltreatment of a child.

I was an entrepreneur, and I sacrificed a lot for my goals in my twenties... .only to have the company's account drained by a "malignant narcissist".

So I have no savings, was recently on food stamps and almost homeless... .that is when I met the woman wBPD. She told me she was an "empath" and animal lover. This attracted me to her.

She is higher functioning and has a desire to be good as most people do, but her pattern of manipulation, deceit, and emotional abuse, gaslighting, etc... .is toxic for others, as I'm sure you all know.

She instinctively took advantage of my vulnerability.

I am in the early stages of rebuilding my life. I am in a new town, and have a good job, but few friends and PTSD symptoms.

Essentially her and I will swap places financially. Due to the fact that I was just almost homeless, I have a rational fear of not having much money. It is truly terrifying as a young man. There is no support here for victims of corporate crimes.

Her "oops" is a premeditated theft, supported by the government. Oregon prides itself in having the most profitable cs system in the country... .and childcare is more expensive here than in any other country. She wants me and a baby. If she can't have me she will take the money and the baby.

I don't want to raise a child. It's a huge sacrifice in a terrible economy. I don't have a neurotypical woman to enjoy it with, help. I am smart, ethical, and kind but I am not the most "temporally" responsible person... .think absent minded professor.

I am lost in thought a lot of the time... .not in the present moment... .pondering. I have a wonderful dog, but sometimes I feel I am not as responsive to his needs as I should be... .e.g. more walks, more structure, etc... .

He's loving and wonderful, and happy... .but a little rough around the edges due to a lack of structure.

I am a dreamer, a thinker... .not what I feel would be ideal as a primary caretaker of a child, unfortunately. I don't feel responsible for her actions, and I don't feel like focusing all my energies on this moral injustice... .or fighting a battle in which all lose.

Nobody wins in a war. People die on both sides. My chances of winning this war against her are slim. Lawyers who tell me I have a shot at winning, are most likely just trying to make money.

My Aunt and Uncle are both child psychologists, and they feel my chances are very low. Unless she's a drug addict or physically abusive, the family courts here in Oregon feel that mental illness is "stigmatized" and that these women can be good parents. They explained to me that Oregon has a "good enough" policy when deeming fitness for parents.

Esentially, what they are saying is that unless she's a crack snorting hooker... .she will be deemed fit as a parent. She's higher functioning... .a supervisor at a thrift store.

So going the protective order route, could've have been damaging, as I don't want to be in the CS system. Period. It's slavery.

[catnap]

Her dog died under mysterious circumstances--be careful with your dog.  It might be a ploy for sympathy, but she has the potential of being very dangerous. 

She has her group of negative advocates which are feeding her feelings to treat you badly.  I find it interesting that they are all about CS (money) and no mention of the child needing a father.

I do strongly believe she seems receptive to keep you engaged with her on some level. 

Glad you are getting the protective order. 

[stoic83]

Remind me... .exactly what happened when you went NC that is so terrifying to you?

Was that the incident where the police got involved? And the source of evidence you could use to get the SO against her?

When I went NC... .she came to my work and "served" me with phony documents. I almost lost my job due to the Traumatic reaction I had, and the commotion it caused. I went to the police, as my boss told me I needed to do something about it. The next day she shows up at my house, and I call the police. She lies to the police about why she is there, and he threatens to arrest her. Police don't like getting lied to and he empathized with my story. He said he would support the stalking order.

I clearly told her to stop contacting me by any means. And she violated those boundaries by phone, text, at my work, and at my home... .and I was afraid for my safety.

Despite that, I backed off the protective order as I thought it would "enflame" the situation... .I feel like that things could cool down, the chances of something more fair are higher. If I keep in touch with her, I can help her correct her faulty thinking patterns... .she's honestly receptive to it to some extent. She wants to be more self aware and curb her behaviors. She's still a professional victim and potentially dangerous, potentially homicidal (her dad hung himself, and her dog was "poisoned" this week?) but it's probably just because she's ill.

-----

Her and her parents threatened me with child support calling me a "SOB" "___" and "idiot". Child support will ruin my quality of life. I make 3 times more money than her, and it will force me in to a roommate situation with no ability to save money. While I am forced to pay the max for her maltreatment of a child.

I was an entrepreneur, and I sacrificed a lot for my goals in my twenties... .only to have the company's account drained by a "malignant narcissist".

So I have no savings, was recently on food stamps and almost homeless... .that is when I met the woman wBPD. She told me she was an "empath" and animal lover. This attracted me to her.

She is higher functioning and has a desire to be good as most people do, but her pattern of manipulation, deceit, and emotional abuse, gaslighting, etc... .is toxic for others, as I'm sure you all know.

She instinctively took advantage of my vulnerability, and I was too ignorant and weak to protect myself. I cried for help to my boss and aunt and uncle... .but my crying fell on deaf ears. I thought if I just made it through a month or two, I could get in to my own place and distance myself, set boundaries, make healthy friendships etc... .

I am in that place now, but can not enjoy it... .because of the impending doom in my life.

I am in the early stages of rebuilding my life. I am in a new town, and have a good job, but few friends and PTSD symptoms.

If she goes for full pop CS, her and I will swap places financially. Due to the fact that I was just almost homeless, I have a rational fear of not having much money. It is truly terrifying as a young man. There is no support here for victims of corporate crimes. I am an entrepreneur, and my dream is to restart my business after a brief period of stability and balance. Ironic, isn't it?

Her "oops" is a premeditated theft, supported by the government. Oregon prides itself in having the most profitable cs system in the country... .and childcare is more expensive here than in any other state.

I don't want to raise a child right now, it's important to me that I am financially and emotionally stable and in the right relationship. It's a huge sacrifice in a terrible economy. I don't have a neurotypical woman to enjoy it with, help. I am smart, ethical, and kind but I am not the most "temporally" responsible person... .(think absent minded professor).

I am lost in thought a lot of the time... .pondering... .creative. I have a wonderful dog, but sometimes I feel I am not as responsive to his needs as I should be... .e.g. more walks, more structure, etc... .I might be too hard on myself, but I am forgetful.

He's loving and wonderful, and happy... .but a little rough around the edges.

I am a dreamer, a thinker, and a worrier probably not ideal as a "nurturer" for a young infant, unfortunately... .but absolutely ideal as a mentor, teacher, father figure. I don't feel responsible for her actions, and I don't feel like focusing all my energies on this moral injustice... .or fighting a battle in which all lose.

Nobody wins in a war. People die on both sides. My chances of winning this war against her are slim. Lawyers who tell me I have a shot at winning, are most likely just trying to make money.

My Aunt and Uncle are both child psychologists, and they feel my chances are very low. Unless she's a drug addict or physically abusive, the family courts here in Oregon feel that mental illness is "stigmatized" and that these women can be good parents. They explained to me that Oregon has a "good enough" policy when deeming fitness for parents.

My Aunt believes that the woman wBPD's psychology won't interfere with her ability to mother in the earliest stages. That as long as she shows love and attention, the infant/baby will not be psychologically damaged. This will probably hold her interest for a couple of years... .as the child becomes older, this woman will lose interest and start looking for abusive men or men to abuse again. This is hopefully when I can get full custody, and hopefully I will have a girlfriend at that point or be ready for full custody on my own and have the resources and energy to engage in a length court battle.

Essentially, what the courts are saying is that unless she's a crack snorting hooker... .she will be deemed fit as a parent. She's higher functioning... .a supervisor at a thrift store.

So going the protective order route, could've have been damaging to me, as I don't want to be in the CS system. Period. It's slavery. I always have the option of just moving away... .I have no real life here... .and the only thing that would become a "tie me down" would be my love for this child that was stolen from me by this sick and emotionally immature woman out of her own desperation to hang on to me. I can find a good job somewhere else within 3-6 months, so that is the amount of money I will need to have if I need to leave town to avoid abuse.

Any thoughts, my friends?

Stoic

Once I'm in the CS system. I will give up and go NC. There will be nothing to fight for anymore. I will try to remain emotionally detatched from the child so that she can't use that bond to further manipulate and extort me. The child will just be another vicitm of a Cluster-B personality, and while it's very sad... .I feel it would be best for everyone if I just went away. As I've said before, I am not going to sacrifice my potential to become a full time family court expert, and I'm not going to waste all my time energy and money on greedy attorneys who profit off of high conflict custody cases.

I still value my life and potential to do good that I don't feel like it's in society's best interest for me to drop everything so I can raise a child that will be at the very least half-raised by a psychologically damaging person. She will absolutely manipulate the child and the courts, she is higher functioning... .and if she fooled me, she can certainly fool a child... and also social workers, judges, mediators, her friends, family... .etc.

So really all I'm fighting for at this point is my livelihood... .I have a slim hope that by maintaining LC, I can get her to seek help so that when she does go to CS, which is most likely inevitable, that I'm not paying for the abuse of a child. If there was some way I could get full custody without a long drawn out ugly battle, I would absolutely do it... .but she

She wants in order:

1) wants me, my money, and the baby.

2) me and the baby.

3) my money and the baby.

4) the baby.

If she can't get 1 or 2, she will certainly take 3. Since we know 3 is impossible for me to avoid due to CS system, 2 seems better... .until I have enough money saved to afford 3 without giving up on my dreams.

I want in order:

1) Adoption in to a warm and loving home with 2 willing and receptive parents.

2) To be in her and the child's life as a "parent of a parent" so that I can ensure my investment in the child's life is not going for not and to protect both from further abuse. Perhaps cohabitating to save money and place cameras in all rooms for documentation.

3) To move away, change my name, and stay off the grid. Perhaps professional poker player, or rogue entrepreneur. Risky and scary... .but free.

4) Assume full custody after a lengthy court battle. Work to support child. Responsible... .but slave to child, and heart is elsewhere. A child's life has no more value than my own... .although incapable of supporting himself/herself and needing of direction, guidance, love... .etc.

5) Stay here, pay child support, and visit with the child. UGH. What a ___ty life.

6) Stay here and quit my job out of protest. Fight the courts. Mens rights. RaRaRa! Go homeless. Go to jail. Hey, at least I'd be true to myself and true to my integrity.

7) End my life. ( this would be a real shame, but this potential life is riddled with boobytraps and essentially my worst nightmare... and I'm sure death couldn't be worse than living as a slave. I was in a 4.5 year rs with a woman w/ LFBPD and it literally shattered me. Pathological Narcissist stole my company and destroyed my dream. Another HFBPD, this time stole my baby and will steal my money... .and is tying me to her for 18-21 years, with no escape.  PTSD and soul not intact despite counseling... in a waking depression. Don't like working a 9-5 as it is, and certainly wouldn't like a 9-5 working for a woman with HFBPD so that she can smother and abuse a child (like I was by my nBPD mother when I was a child. Torture. I moved in the basement when I was 12 and moved to France in college to get away from the insanity, confusion, manipulation, FOG... .poisonous)... .the further I get away, the happier I become. I don't see myself being capable of finding a healthy woman for the next 5 years at least... .i am damaged myself, and need to build a full and healthy life so that I don't attract these types of people any more so any thought of finding a neurotypical woman to share in the burden with me is messed up and selfish.)


I'm not really of the mentality that "blood is thicker than water". I feel no ownership, or moral responsibility for a child which resulted from her manipulation, deception, and mind games. I am a kind, caring, trusting person... .and although I was ignorant in some regards, I am not blaming myself or accepting fault for her actions. Once I bond with the child, the game will change... .and it's what I am afraid of... .because I'm the type of person that would fight for the well being of a child, to no end... .just not when I don't have to.

My main fear is growing an attachment for the child to which I feel I am forced to fight. It seems better to be either with her to "supervise and protect out of societal service, while allowing her to do most of the mothering/bonding", or completely disappear to "preserve my sanity and pursuit of happiness while giving up hope on her getting help through DBT, or the child having a healthy upbringing".

I do have empathy for people with mental illness. However it's hard to empathize with someone who is inadvertently trying to destroy you out of "love". Tricky situation.

Stoic