Not even sure where to go

[ugghh]

Hi All,

Turning to my favorite place for the sage advice I need as I continue to work at reclaiming my life from the craziness of the uBPDx.    Married 26years, divorce finalized in July,2014, 3 kids (D21,S19, S17) are either at college or live with me.  I am low contact with X and only do email absolutely as little as possible.  All 3 kids are low contact to NC for the S17. 

Of course in the entitled way that only a pwBPD can think, EX has managed to convince herself and her now 3rd lawyer that somehow the kids will not speak to her because I have caused parental alienation.  Sigh.  The ink was barely dry on the divorce papers before she started making noises about going back to court because the parenting plan states "Mother and child shall directly arrange for said periods of custody as shall be in the best interests of the child.  Father shall take all reasonable and appropriate steps to encourage child to maintain regular, frequent, and meaningful contact with Mother."  She is all hung up on the Father part, primarily because S17 has refused to speak to her for last 6 months after she violated his boundaries big time.

Since S17 will turn 18 in less than 6 months, my L suggested that we at least make an effort at some coparent counseling, which as he put it would be cheaper than his fees.  Fine, I will  try anything, but after 25 years and multiple counselors I have a pretty good idea how this will work.  The counselor says he does 1 session with each of us and then some joint ones to try and improve the whole communication thing.  I went last week and xuBPDW went tonight. 

Not even 2 hours after her session I get an an email from xuBPDw stating that she has previously asked me to stop talking to her family and if I don't adhere to her boundaries she will pursue legal action against all parties - huh?  Specifically I think she is referring to the fact that I talk to my former mother in law from time to time regarding things such as kids summer plans and at this time of year regarding holiday plans.  Normally of course I would gladly let the xuBPDw handle these convos, however of course she is also estranged from her own mother.

Former mother in law and I get along just fine, having both suffered through many years of walking on eggshells around her daughter, my ex wife.  She actually told me how much she was looking forward to having grandkids come to after Xmas party with her family this year, since in prior years xuBPDw would never consent to our family going to visit her.   

I can only assume that EX received some information that I was communicating with the former mother in law from the new co-parenting counselor.  It almost feels like when I was still married and trying to work with a MC.  As a non we approach with an open mind toward achieving progress and the pwBPD sees it either as  an opportunity to gain an ally or alternatively a threat who cannot possibly be competent.

Maybe I am completely off base, but this silliness is getting old. I forwarded a copy of her silly email to the coparenting counselor with the following note:

It appears from the hostile tone of the email below that you apparently shared with EX today some of the information I provided in confidence in our session . 

I really see very limited potential in reaching any meaningful advances given continuous threats of legal action for matters over which a court has no jurisdiction or interest therein.

I am further concerned about the ability to share any information honestly going forward, given that it appears it will be divulged and used as a tool with which to flog me via email.  I am neither masochistic nor a fool and question the wisdom of spending on a situation which shows little chance of being ameliorated, particularly given that I alone will be paying college tuition for 3 young adults in the forthcoming year.

Beyond tired and looking for some input

Thanks,

Ugghh

[momtara]

Ugh.  Well, at least the counselor sees what she sent you.  I'll be curious to learn what she/he replies.

You have most of what you want - you have the kids, they know the truth, and they are almost too old to have to deal with this sillness anyway.  You may just have to ignore your ex's court threats.  The counselor's job is to keep you out of court, so your ex may not look too good if she goes to court.

She feels the kids slipping away.  She has to react somehow.

I don't know what I can say that's helpful, but I think how the counselor responds will give us a little more to react to.  If it turns out this person is not helpful, you can just try to say as little as possible in the sessions.  The counselor should not be giving her information that you said in confidence.

[Waddams]

One of the things we look for on message boards is advice and opinions sometimes.  I know we all try to shy from saying "you need to do this... ." so I'll put this in terms of how I'd deal with it based on the information provided.

1.  I don't think I'd do anymore co-parenting counseling.  Not just because this T seems to be sharing information that is getting your uBPDx all riled up, but mainly to set a NC/LC boundary as well.  The less engagement had with her, the better.  Perhaps this T got sucked in by some BPD voodoo or something, but we all know how co-parenting counseling is gonna work out. 

2.  uBPDx's motives are clearly to start more drama with YOU.  It has nothing to do with S17.  She claims to be all fired up because she thinks you are alienating S17 against her.  Well, the others that are legal adults are also LC.  Why isn't she making noises about problems with them too?  They are her kids.  Well, the answer is because the court order only applies to a minor, so the minor is the only one she can reach you through.  If she were genuine, she'd mention it with all 3 kids.  Instead she is attacking through her only means to do get to you in any real way, and she loses even that in 6 months. 

I would refuse to engage with her.  I'd tell her see you in court to the legal threats.  She won't even be able to get in front of a judge before S17 is legally an adult and this is all a moot point in a legal sense anyway.  I'd tell her to pound sand and move on with my life.

3.  It's up to her to maintain her relations with her kids.  I'd simply refuse to have anything to do with it.  I'd tell her if S17 wants to talk to you or see you, he'll call you, but I won't make him.  She's using that "Father shall... ." clause to claim you should make him.  B*!$h!t.  It is not reasonable and appropriate for you to try to force S17 to engage with his mother, especially when she's hurt him in the past.  He's old enough to make up his own mind.  It's reasonable and appropriate for you to stay out of their drama.

4.  Legal action in response to you talking to the kid's mother-in-law?  Puh-leeze.  She's just trying to continue isolating you as much as she can.

5.  What can she really get out of a court action at this point?  The answer is absolutely nothing.  Again, because S17 will be 18, making all of this moot in a legal sense, before anything could be resolved in court.

Honestly, I think I'd just ignore her moving forward.  I wouldn't respond to emails about this, I wouldn't take her calls, I wouldn't let this peg my attention meter at all.  Move on, take the kid's to grandma's, live your life, and let her act the baboon she is proving herself to be.  If she actually files something, drag out responding, drag out discovery, etc. until S17 is 18, and then there isn't anything under any legal jurisdiction. 

I think all of us tend to walk on egg shells too much even after the divorce.  uBPDx is making all kind of drama, and we all have a tendancy to revert to old habits in response to it.  We don't have to do that always.  We can stomp all over those egg shells and just let the BPD go ape $h!t.  I think it's healthier to do that sometimes in the long run.  It sets a hard boundary, puts your foot down and tells them they will not be able to control us, and lets them know we don't care how much drama they try to start, we aren't afraid of them.  And it's a good internal strength builder for ourselves too.  This is sort of situation I think I'd just laugh in her face and walk away.

[david]

Ditto to what Waddams says. Even if she took you to court you have enough to show that you are not the cause of the alienation.

I have SS's (her kids from her first marriage). One is LC and another is NC. Ex did that and not me. Ex actually claimed in court once that I alienated them from her. They were 26 and 24 at the time. Nobody, including her atty, defended that point of view.

[ForeverDad]

I'd say that if she tries to take you to court that you counter-file to have her pay children's schooling expenses to at least the amount that you have to spend for legal fees and related expenses.  After all, if not spent on lawyers, counselors etc wouldn't it have been used for tuition and other related expenses?

I don't know if you ever email her, but something like this may short circuit her manipulations, if the lawyer approves... ."The children are grown or nearly so.  If you pursue this or issues related to our marriage, divorce, parenting, etc in court, you may very well have the right to file such claims with the court, just be advised that I would be placed in a position where I should counterclaim for you to be ordered to pay toward the children's tuition and other related expenses, at least to the amount I would have to divert from the children's benefit to legal expenses and other costs related to your actions."

[Waddams]

I like FD's comment in the vein of maybe having your L respond to letters from her L or something.  I wouldn't say it directly to uBPDx, particularly in writing.  There is an element of retribution/escalation that could be taken from it.  I think this sort of thing is purely just the uBPDx being threatening and showing you are not escalating is very important in the event you end up in front of a judge.  For some reasons, judges seem to be okay with L's threatening everybody, but if we do it personally, suddenly it's not okay.

I think it's best to let her bluster and threaten and ignore her.  If something comes from her L, then let your L respond accordingly.

[ForeverDad]

For some reasons, judges seem to be okay with L's threatening everybody, but if we do it personally, suddenly it's not okay.

I call it: the squeaky wheel gets the grease.  The courts seems to treat the messed up parent with kid gloves yet hold our feet to the fire for the least technicality.

Good point from Waddams, you can't ever be seen as controlling or abusive, not even a little.  Why can lawyer do it but not you?  Because you're an involved party to the action whereas the lawyers are licensed professionals.  It's their job, they can do far more than you.

For example, in rare cases here we've heard members report they used a PI to follow or keep tabs on the ex to document their known or suspected behaviors.  A PI can do that, they are licensed and bonded professionals.  We can't do the same or else we could face complaints of stalking, harassment or worse.

[livednlearned]

I don't know about Ughhh, but the thought of going back to court, whether I stood to win or not, and whether my L dragged it out or not, is more toxic than anything I could imagine at this point.

You can experience PTSD from the legal process.

The coparenting counselor sounds like a real winner.