Do they really not understand?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Been with my wife for 10 years, she's had BPD since I've married her and I just found out about BPD the past few months.  Her psychologist told her she needed years of therapy.  Anyway the past 8-10 months have been very rough, she's extremely verbally abusive towards me, even in front of our 6 yr old daughter.

Two nights ago I asked her a simple question, she somehow took it as me making fun of her (no clue how you could get that out of the question I asked) however she went on a rampage, becoming verbally abusive, telling me I am a 'piece of s**t' in front of our daughter.  Last night I sat her down and explained why I asked that question and when I told her (since she did not apologize) why her verbal abuse is ruining the marriage her literal reply (which she said a couple of times) was 'I don't understand'. 

How could you NOT understand?

She then said 'Well, i'm sorry'... then right afterwards 'that you are too sensitive'. 

At this point I told her to not talk to me the rest of the night.  Does BPD take away all the common sense when it comes to emotional issues?  She continues to do what she wants and destroy the marriage.  The bond is becoming weaker & weaker every day and I am just concentrating on our daughter.  When she is verbally abusive and when my daughter hears it, she steps in and tells her mom to stop it.  My wife then will go to my daughter and threaten to leave the house, which puts my daughter into fear.  It's very upsetting to say the least.

If I took video of my wife when she is in her rages, would it be admissible in court if we get divorced?  I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this anymore...

[Silveron]

Been with my wife for 10 years, she's had BPD since I've married her and I just found out about BPD the past few months.  Her psychologist told her she needed years of therapy.  Anyway the past 8-10 months have been very rough, she's extremely verbally abusive towards me, even in front of our 6 yr old daughter.

Two nights ago I asked her a simple question, she somehow took it as me making fun of her (no clue how you could get that out of the question I asked) however she went on a rampage, becoming verbally abusive, telling me I am a 'piece of s**t' in front of our daughter.  Last night I sat her down and explained why I asked that question and when I told her (since she did not apologize) why her verbal abuse is ruining the marriage her literal reply (which she said a couple of times) was 'I don't understand'. 

How could you NOT understand?

She then said 'Well, i'm sorry'... then right afterwards 'that you are too sensitive'. 

At this point I told her to not talk to me the rest of the night.  Does BPD take away all the common sense when it comes to emotional issues?  She continues to do what she wants and destroy the marriage.  The bond is becoming weaker & weaker every day and I am just concentrating on our daughter.  When she is verbally abusive and when my daughter hears it, she steps in and tells her mom to stop it.  My wife then will go to my daughter and threaten to leave the house, which puts my daughter into fear.  It's very upsetting to say the least.

If I took video of my wife when she is in her rages, would it be admissible in court if we get divorced?  I don't want to spend the rest of my life like this anymore...

[Aussie0zborn]

This is a difficult situation. Only a lawyer can tell you if a video is admissible in court. You can present a video or sound recording to the police if and when they arrest you on false allegations of violence but as to whether it's admissible in court depends on which country and state you're in.

My experience is that if they try to understand you it would bring up those horrible feelings and they might not like  themselves so they avoid any self reflection. When you put them in this position of self reflection they feel threatened and abused. Her answer to you is typical BPD and these situations just keep chipping away at the marriage and adding to your frustration. Everything you built with this person is now crumbling away right before your eyes and you are powerless to stop it.

I could give my stbx uBPDw a compliment that would be well received - if I gave her the same compliment a day or three later it would be taken as if I was making fun of her - exactly the same as you describe. How she could see it that way was bizarre.

Her behaviour in front of, and her abuse of your daughter is not good. I can't suggest anything there but I'm sure others can.

Until you work out that you need to leave and take your daughter with you, read up on the coping strategies here. You're the responsible healthy adult here and how this pans out depends on how you handle this. Don't get frustrated by the false accusations, don't let yourself get set-up for crazy situations and accusations and maintain a level head.

Some members here have reported that recording the rages usually stops them right there and then, while others have recorded them to play it back to them when the rages or accusations are denied.

However you handle it, always stay calm and in control. It's easier said than done but the trick is not to get sucked in to the nonsense and end up being part of the problem. Good luck. 

[maxen]

hi Silveron. you're asking a really important question: where is the border between moral understanding and emotional imperatives, especially the emotional imperatives of a person with BPD? sometimes the answer to that won't matter, as in your w's behavior to your (brave) daughter, which is abusive. Aussie has given good suggestions on how to handle yourself, especially the difficult but necessary idea that you must be ready to be the responsible party 100% of the time. as to the video and divorce questions, please visit our Family law, divorce and custody board. no-one here can dispense legal advice, but the senior posters there are an invaluable resource, and have much experience.

i'm really sorry for your and your daughter's situation. for immediate purposes you may want to read some of our communications resources, such as Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN), and Validation and BPD.

do you have a counselor for yourself? how is your daughter coping?

[ProfDaddy]

Silveron,

My children and I have been through what you describe and it is puzzling and painful.  Lived with BPDXW for 13 years, had 2 children, ds10 and d13.  Divorced 4 years ago, now remarried, ds10 inherited his mother's problems and he is institutionalized. 

One of the only ways I can make sense of the behaviors you describe is thinking of how it is processed in the brain.  The brain can loosely be described as having three levels or layers.  The brainstem handles sutaining life, heartrate, brething, etc.  The midbrain handles drives; the classic 4 Fs (feeding, fleeing, fighting, and mating).  The midbrain is a primative drive system, the limbic system, that underlies the cortex. The cortex handles higher thought and can usually control the midbrain.  Anxiety, fear, and outbursts are products of the midbrain -- the limbic system. 

So, to answer your question, when anxiety and fear take control of your wife's actions (or anyone's actions), they are in the midbrain and don't understand.  Nobody operating from anxiety and fear could ever understand, actions are not rational.  As a partner, you can't reason with her midbrain, no matter how calm you remain.  You can wait until her level of anxiety and panic subside, midbrain calms, cortex is in control, and she is once again rational. You can sometimes avoid getting hooked and residing in your own midbrain during her episodes.  However, long-term, living with the trauma of a partner who is emotionally dysregulated eventually forces the rest of the family into reactive and irrational behaviors because their own midbrains learn to engage in response to the stress of frequent outbursts from the dysregulated person. 

Thereapy usually does not make this better.  You are dealing with someone who cannot control their mind.  Sometimes there are periods of relative calm, it feels like things are getting better.  Everyone can work on ways to reduce triggers, reduce stress, and create shelter from challenges that create anxiety and panic.  However, the underlying dysfunction remains, and the family imbalance from living with it remains.  Accepting this reality and prognosis is difficult.  Finding a way to protect your daughter and yourself is also difficult. 

If you haven't already, find a therapist for yourself and for your daughter.  Interview a few until you have one who really understands and can help.  Do the same with divorce attorneys when you are ready.

You are in a dark place, but you didn't cause this, and you can't make it better.  She probably can't either.  So sorry for your pain.

ProfDaddy

[Lost23]

Just to comment on the one part, I don't know where you live or how different the laws are, but in Canada where I live at least, any video or audio can be used as long as you are in it. I have recorded several phone conversations and since I am in the convo, it's fine. You start recording things you aren't in, that's different. But if you're a participant, it's not illegal and can be used.