Going NC for a while

[ziniztar]

It's not that I need him to stop contacting me - I haven't had a response from him since last Thursday night when he drunk dialed me and left a VM of 5 minutes.

It's more that I need some calmness myself. I am the one that keeps texting him when I feel hurt or sad or hopeless or whatever. He reads it. He doesn't reply.

I need some stability over the upcoming weeks as I know that any type of improvement on his side is a) required for getting back together and it's not happening overnight b) I really need to detach a little in order to make sure I can make a right decision in the future, about us. I know that I'm probably just wishfully thinking he's taking this experience to get past a certain point in recovery, but I'll just accept that for now. I'm not willing to let go of the possibility of us getting back together just yet. But I do need some time and space to get my head clear.

So. I've decided to set milestones.

1st is until next Monday November 17th. I have a T appointment then I would really like to discuss all of this with him.

2nd one: December 1st.

3rd one: January 1st.

Let's see where I can get .

[ziniztar]

Deleted his phone number from my phone, deleted all other references in 'recent called' list etc. so I don't have his number close.

I wrote it in my diary, at home. Next to it are the words that I wrote to my roommate 'could I borrow your car in the worst case scenario?'

I wrote those when I was on the phone with dBPDbf after his first period of silent treatment. I went to his house, we recycled, but it hurt. Every time I think of contacting him now I will be reminded of the agony. That will do the trick for now.

[itgirl]

How are you doing with the no contact ziniztar?

[ziniztar]

Hey IT Girl

Thanks for checking in.

I'm doing okay. I felt a huge need to text him after 2 days, but I just let it pass. I notice I’m getting a little angry at him for his NC. 

It kind of helps that I had that drunk voicemail last week where I think (hope) he told the truth, because the current black split was tempered a little.

A friend of him contacted me, saying he was sorry to hear about our break-up and that he would probably not see me again. Saying he thought he was the only one that seemed to understand dBPDxbf.

He doesn’t. He’s someone with weak boundaries, attachment issues and a minority complex himself, which is one of the reasons they’re (still) friends. The more healthy ones already distanced themselves from him.

I told him: if he really didn’t learn anything from therapy, he’ll get a new gf in about 4 months and will be just as happy about her as he was about me’.

Also told him that I’d be open to a r/s if dBPDxbf got his ___ together and learnt something in the meantime. That I would be willing to try the ‘let’s separate for 1 year and see what happens next’ thing.

But I’m not sure whether I’ve not already moved on by then. Nor if dBPDxbf will allow any contact by then... who knows.

For now, I’m doing ok and focusing on alllll the healthy people in my environment .

[Grey Kitty]

 

I'm really impressed with the way you chose to help yourself stay strong, placing his phone number strategically.

I'm glad you've got peace. I would probably have more if I wasn't looking down the barrel of unwinding 20+ years of shared belongings and finances.

And simultaneously, wanting to delay some... .in hopes that we don't have to do THAT damage to each other, as I'd still take her back... .on my terms, anyway.

Stay healthy, take good care of yourself, and spend time with your healthy friends!

 GK

[ziniztar]

Thanks GK.

It's hard, though. I do these physical things so I can get past that moment of weakness, and prevent the moment where I hate myself for giving into the emotion. If only I could do that during a fight where I'm triggered as well.

In the past few days it's been really hard, watched 3 seasons (!) of Friends, had pizza's and a bottle of wine and stayed in bed for two days consecutively. Didn't shower for three. And that for a girl that is back at the office in high heels tomorrow morning. It definitely feels dysfunctional.

I feel a very, very, very strong urge to reassure him I haven't left him.

I'm guessing that's pure manipulation as I don't want him to think I bailed out on him, that I left him.

But hey, I did. I have to deal with the fact I feel guilty for choosing my own path above his.

I just really want to make sure he knows that I still believe in him and his progress, but that a r/s is too painful for me, right now and potentially also in the future. I feel he deserves someone that believes in him. I know he hasn't had any contact with other exes but that he wanted that after a while, after the first pain was gone.

Anyway, I'm not texting him, it won't do him or me any good. I have a T's appointment tomorrow where I can discuss these urges with. And then, the next milestone is December 1st. Babysteps  . Same goes for you GK, don't beat yourself up about now knowing things or being unsure about it. It's a long road and you're deciding the pace. In the end, you're in charge, and you'll get to decide where you want to go.  

[Perdita]

In the past few days it's been really hard, watched 3 seasons (!) of Friends, had pizza's and a bottle of wine and stayed in bed for two days consecutively.

That sounds pretty good from where I'm sitting!

Didn't shower for three.

That not so much   

Seems there are a few of us spending the weekend as if preparing to become future coach potatoes or bag ladies.  But seriously, you are doing well. And your weekend of Friends, pizza and wine has been more productive than mine!  Now why didn't I think of that? 

Anyway, I am going to go shower now.  I suggest you do the same.   

[Grey Kitty]

  You know you are doing the right thing with him. Or perhaps I should say you know you aren't going to let yourself do the wrong thing. All I've got to say there is 

In the past few days it's been really hard, watched 3 seasons (!) of Friends, had pizza's and a bottle of wine and stayed in bed for two days consecutively. Didn't shower for three. And that for a girl that is back at the office in high heels tomorrow morning. It definitely feels dysfunctional.

This kind of self-care question is EXACTLY where I've been with myself. Well... .I don't watch TV... .but you wouldn't believe the new high scores I've gotten in Bejeweled Blitz this month! 

Sometimes taking care of yourself is doing things that will make you feel good and energized, and feel happy looking back at what you accomplished.

Sometimes taking care of yourself is hiding out, giving yourself a break from the difficult feelings, even being self-indulgent, at least by apperances. (My wife refers to her own "Blanket Fort Disorder"

  You will figure out which is the kinder thing to offer yourself today. And tomorrow you get to choose again.

[ziniztar]

HAHAHAHAHHAHA  

Your replies made me laugh, whaha.

I DID get a shower this morning and met up with two friends, felt good!

I DO get to decide my own course of action and I think I needed those Friends marathons.

And, allmost like he was able to smell the end of my first milestone tomorrow, he rang me this evening. Twice. After 3 weeks of ST. Phone was switched off (good god) so I wasn't faced with the choice of answering. I admit (as many have already predicted) I felt a little happy. I didn't respond, will discuss with T first tomorrow.

In all fairness I didn't expect it this quick.

[ziniztar]

Discussed with T. He wants to 'offer' me a psychotherapist to get into deeper issues of my childhood, related to my mother dying real young and my father being quite the interesting man too (understatement of the year).

He said: 'You're going to get a hard time in the next couple of months', dealing with dBPDxbf and everything he will be saying to me. T even said "you're going to hear what he wants to do to make it up to you, probably even say that he wants to go to another therapist etc".

He explained that I need to detach and get some room to breathe myself. So, he didn't tell me not to contact him, but he did definitely imply it was the healthiest for me. I did tell him with tears in my eyes and a feeling I was imploding, that I can't quit contact 100% right now. He gets that, as he get's the underlying issues that have led to this type of behaviour on my end.

I decided not to call back immediately. I waited. Suppressed the urge to give him a reason for my non-response. And then today I got: "is your phone broken?"

Haven't heard from him in 3 weeks and this is what you get. I really wonder what will happen in the upcoming months, what he will take away from all this. I know that if nothing changes - and I know where the changes really are, I don't mean the black versus white change - it has been the best decision that I could have made. If he does do something with all this, it's still going to take months, maybe even years for him to get to a point where I'd want him to be. I'm slowly accepting that, and it hurts, but it also feels nice to accept that. Realizing that means that I can more easily deal with the uncomfortable feelings related to my new behaviour, because I know I'm bearing them for a good reason.

I called him today but he didn't answer. That's fine. I don't even know what we'd talk about... We'll see what happens. I think I want to talk to him once before deciding what my next course of action will be; NC, LC...

[Grey Kitty]

So. I've decided to set milestones.

1st is until next Monday November 17th. I have a T appointment then I would really like to discuss all of this with him.

2nd one: December 1st.

3rd one: January 1st.

Let's see where I can get .

Milestone #1: Check, but just by the skin of your teeth. 



I've got a couple questions for relating to your choice to make it until milestone #2 or not.

First: What do you want to get out of talking to him. For YOURSELF.

Second: You seem to be worrying about what he is hoping/feeling/thinking/doing... .What does this concern tell you when you turn the focus back to yourself?

[ziniztar]

Thanks GK

First: What do you want to get out of talking to him. For YOURSELF.

Second: You seem to be worrying about what he is hoping/feeling/thinking/doing... .What does this concern tell you when you turn the focus back to yourself?

First: I'd like to know how he is doing. Most importantly I want to know how he's doing in getting his own business. I care for him and hope for him that will follow through. I'm not really interested in hearing about his emotional state of mind, or what he thinks about the break-up. There's no use in discussing that as I know this has ended for at least a couple of months.

Second: I'm more really interested in how this all turns out in months time. I'm not thinking about what he's doing today, for instance, or how he was feeling about the fact I didn't respond immediately. I hope to be able to stay connected, but I also realize I don't want to see him this year anymore. That would be too hard.

I guess, if I go NC I will get no input on how he's picking this all up (changing his attitude and/or life towards his BPD and therapy) or not. I guess I'm still too much interested (and probably hopeful) he will use all this. But I'm kind of losing whether I'm hoping that for myself, or for him because I care. I really think it's mostly the 2nd one, because I am exploring lots of opportunities in my head about other types of r/s I could get that would give me so much more. I even realized that I was a straight A student in college during the 2,5 years I was with a semi-normal, healthy attached boyfriend. I realize that being in wrong r/s's or being in love slash pre-occupied with the wrong types of men, has influenced my life already SO much that I don't want that anymore - for myself.

I guess that, if I'm honest, I still want to send out the message that I didn't leave him like the previous girls that (understandably) quit all contact. They all weren't aware of his BPD yet. I want to send out a message that even though I've chosen I can't be with him anymore, I don't think he's a monster. I can see the wrongness in that urge, but it's all I can do, right now...

[Grey Kitty]

  You sound secure in what you want. And self-aware of your need to protect yourself. 

You may not get what you want out of this conversation, but that's the risk you've got to take.

You know how a really good friend will tackle you and grab your phone when you really shouldn't be drunk-dialing your ex or something similarly stupid?

I've got no urge to tackle you right now! 

[ziniztar]

 You sound secure in what you want. And self-aware of your need to protect yourself. 

You may not get what you want out of this conversation, but that's the risk you've got to take.

You know how a really good friend will tackle you and grab your phone when you really shouldn't be drunk-dialing your ex or something similarly stupid?

I've got no urge to tackle you right now! 

Hahah I'd tackle you back!

But seriously, thanks.

I have to add though: since Sunday (when he rang me twice), after the initial wave of happiness, the pain in my chest returned. It's a pain I've never ever felt before up until this r/s. The first time was when dBPDxbf cheated on me. In the weeks after that, I felt that pain every day. It was difficult to breathe, it felt like an elephant was sitting on it. Inside was a burning pain, like my heart was literally on fire on the inside.

The pain seems to come back when I feel a responsibility to respond to him, to react. Maybe when I'm in doubt because I know what I would like to do (show healthy, grown-up behaviour placing myself first), and what I think I must do out of obligation/guilt.

When he texted 'is your phone broken?' the pain went skyhigh.

I waited for a while in responding and then sent a non-reactive message back.

'Hey, good to hear from you. I will call you later this evening x'

No response as to whether my phone was broken.

No explanation for me not responding. Just this. It felt very good.

The pain is gone now  .

I guess this is a good time to explore that feeling and to push through it.

[Grey Kitty]

since Sunday (when he rang me twice), after the initial wave of happiness, the pain in my chest returned. It's a pain I've never ever felt before up until this r/s. The first time was when dBPDxbf cheated on me. In the weeks after that, I felt that pain every day. It was difficult to breathe, it felt like an elephant was sitting on it. Inside was a burning pain, like my heart was literally on fire on the inside.

The pain seems to come back when I feel a responsibility to respond to him, to react. Maybe when I'm in doubt because I know what I would like to do (show healthy, grown-up behaviour placing myself first), and what I think I must do out of obligation/guilt.

When he texted 'is your phone broken?' the pain went skyhigh.

I think your heart and body are very clearly telling you that you CAN'T ignore something this important.

I waited for a while in responding and then sent a non-reactive message back.

'Hey, good to hear from you. I will call you later this evening x'

No response as to whether my phone was broken.

No explanation for me not responding. Just this. It felt very good.

The pain is gone now  .

Good work.

Did my own bit of work like that; dunno if you read it or not:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=236950.msg12528014#msg12528014

It did feel good.

I guess this is a good time to explore that feeling and to push through it.

Yes, explore the feeling. This coming from an analytical guy who usually doesn't do that.

Don't push. You could gently hold yourself in place with it. Let it seep in, and wash over you. As much as you can.

If you need it, take a break and watch another season of Friends.   Be gentle with yourself. No need to rush it or push it. The feelings will come back when you are ready.

 GK

[patientandclear]

I know the pain in the chest feeling very well. Zinzitar, I think your read on it is very important: it seems to spring up when there is contact and you are in your mind supposed to respond to him in some way.

I felt the same. When there was an issue of how I would respond to my ex's overtures, my physical pain went sky high. I think because of the knowledge that there was nothing I could do or say that was likely to be safe and right.

[ziniztar]

Thanks both...

What I mean by 'push through' the feeling is exactly what you describe GK: experience it without acting upon it. I don't mean I want to push it away, my wording was a little off.

We called yesterday for about half an hour. He was miserable, his own business seems to blow up in his face because his bid is not accepted, and he got a warning at his other job about his attitude. His work is always (nearly) impeccable, but his attitude isn't. He said if this own business thing is not working out, he'll move out of the country. Avoidance, always a good move  .

I feel for him though, but I was able to keep a safe distance from him. I didn't feel the chest pain. I didn't try to cheer him up. He mentioned: "I wouldn't even want to be with me, if I were you." Is it possible that he's going through his own grieving process about his diagnosis? I feel like when I met him he was still in denial, I've seen anger about it all being so unfair, I've seen him bargaining that if only other people would do this or that, things could get different. And he seems to be depressed about all of it, right now. Maybe acceptance is required to take responsibility for his own future?

Either way, enough about him.

I have to be in the hospital in a few hours and my parents were supposed to take me there. They missed the train to get to me and my father blamed it on a traffic jam towards the train station. You know, one of those that's always there because it's 8:00 am, that they should have planned around? They won't be here in time, so I won't get in time at the hospital if I wait for them. Even in this case (me going to the hospital, requiring surgery) I still briefly considered waiting for them and then realized that would be BS. I do already know my father is:

- disappointed he won't see me 30 minutes earlier and we can't travel to the hospital together

- will get into trouble in public transport because they're not very self-sufficient and I will get to hear the problems they encountered and how bad the system is.

That already accepting/ignoring the fact that I asked my stepmom to come along with me and I got my father on the side - without discussing it with me. I wanted to be alone with my mom because she's so much sweeter when he's not around... . 

[Grey Kitty]

Either way, enough about him.

I have to be in the hospital in a few hours and my parents were supposed to take me there. [crisis redacted ]

I hope your surgery is uneventful.

I hope your parents make it there while you are in recovery and are able to get you back home safely.

 GK

[ziniztar]

Thanks, they were able to.

Not surprisingly the rest of the day ended up being about my father and his sorrow and pain. About my brother not taking over the family business. About him having to retire - it hurts him. About him being in a fight with my sister.

I know there is really a lot going on - but why should he be the only one allowed to show his pain. Everyone is hurting and he doesn't seem to see it. I was able to apply some of the things I learnt in therapy. I ended up telling him I understand his sadness but that I didn't feel like talking about it for the rest of the day. He got a little defense and then said: "Ok I'll accept that." and he was able to swtich back to other topics after a while and the evening got better  .

Am beginning to recognize exstinction bursts with the new boundaries I'm setting with my father, too. Who would have thought that being with a pwBPD would teach me how to deal with my family in a healthier way...

Did get the chest pain though, all day, and when my parents left my house I started crying immediately. I guess I'm slowly recognizing and feeling the same patterns in my FOO as with dBPDxbf. Managing my father is almost as difficult as was managing the r/s with dBPDxbf. And I can see the incredible passive, and also emotionally immature example my step mom has given me.

If any... this is what I got from this past year.

[Grey Kitty]

   

Fantastic work on your part, being open to those feelings around your parents.

If this comes of it, this is clearly an amazing year for you!

[ziniztar]

If this comes of it, this is clearly an amazing year for you!

It is, I guess  . I don't think I've ever had a year where I've learnt this much core stuff about myself and my family.

Today I felt quite sad about the whole situation and felt the urge to text dBPDxbf about it. But then I had this saying in my head: "You can't start the next chapter of your life if you keep re-reading the last one." Instead of texting dBPDxbf, I added a colleague from work that I like and clearly is a nice stable guy on FB.

Also, I'm in a foreign city because of a training for work, and I've decided to give myself an assignment to get myself out of the safe hotel room and feel alone in a big unknown city for a while - and try to enjoy the exploring nature of it all. Extreme adapting due to an enmeshed/underdeveloped self will be a chapter that I will be closing in the near future although I realize it's a long road ahead .

[123Phoebe]

Aw ziniztar, you are proving to be brave, strong and courageous!  Facing and tackling things head on

Inspiring

[ziniztar]

Aw ziniztar, you are proving to be brave, strong and courageous!  Facing and tackling things head on

Inspiring

Thanks Phoebe, that's sweet .

Currently I have no interest in contacting dBPDxbf. He's not contacting me either, that's good. I feel a little numb.

I did realize that my focus is shifting again from the r/s to work. All of a sudden I feel I want to work for 10 hours a day. I guess that's the urge to feel needed that is now shifting towards another receiver ... Am trying to maintain a healthy balance.

[ziniztar]

Just a small update. I rang him this afternoon, just felt like it. Haven't been really sad about us for a while and feel I am getting stronger about my own values, and therefore the decision to leave.

He had deleted  my phone number and didn't realize it was me. "Oh yeah that's what I really needed today" (huh?)

The first 10 minutes of the phone call was about him, how he hadn't slept at all because the neighbors were constructing something, how his family and friends are 'leaving' him, how starting up his own business has failed, how he has to go to family tomorrow and (again) tell his r/s failed. That he's walking into the same difficulties as I do (seeing posts on FB on certain parties/events that we went to last year that bring back good memories). That he had lost the most important person in his life and that there was no way that could ever be healed again.

I kinda liked hearing that last sentence, it means he's missing me somewhere. He seemed so angry and ambivalent towards it for a while. But I didn't feel the pain in my chest, I didn't feel sad afterward. I am quite clear on what I want out of a r/s and it's not his pessimistic victim talk, it's not someone that will push me away when I look for (normal) closeness, it's not someone that will do anything for me to keep me, without knowing if he wants to do it himself. It makes it easier to deal with him.

I told him I'd want to talk sometimes and maybe meet up after a while, but that I also need weeks where we don't talk so I can get my head clear. He was a little thrown off by the part that I'd want to see him again at some point. I don't even know if that's going to be a smart thing as we're quite attracted to each other, but... I have a fond understanding of what I don't want anymore, and as long as he's not changing his tune, we're not getting back together.

There's this cute guy at work that I'd like to date, he's a total (stay-a-lot-at-home) nerd yet social enough to get to the Friday afternoon drinks. At this point, I'd rather end up with him than with dBPDxbf. And in the meantime, I'm working with my T on my own attachment issues. Feels like a plan.  

[ziniztar]

Update. Had two bad phone conversations and really am done with it. It's obvious he's not taking this experience to make things better. He seems to have accepted his fate for some reason and enjoys the victim role. I despise that as I'm growing out of it and I get annoyed. I even see how he's playing me into 1) feeling guilty and 2) the role of agressor / persecutor. I also noticed how bad and passive I feel afterward and how it affects my life. He never takes part in r/s decisions, he always makes someone else responsible and thén complains about it.

So, I told him this would be the last contact. "That's fine, you get to decide that. If that is what you want."

This was it.