Reaching out for guidance and advice from survivors of BPD divorce/custody

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

After a lot of  back and forth (almost like a hostage negotiation), I finally have an agreement among the parties for my soon to be BPDw and I to undergo forensic psychiatric evaluations.

Is there anyone out there, who might be able to offer any helpful personal insights or advice for me? Basic "do's or don't's"?

I'm told by my Attorney, that the Psychiatrist assigned to perform this evaluation, is eminently thorough and fair. This is likely to be my last, best hope for any reasonable chance of a fair, accurate assessment. And potentially the restoration of my relationship and visitatijon between my children and I, (which has been completely severed under order of the court, for the past 8 months). I have not had any degree of contact with them during this time.

I've spent 50 years on this Earth managing to stay out of any kind of trouble. 25 of those had been shared with my BPDw.

Unfortunately, when it became clear to my her, that our marriage was definitely coming to an end, she responded by engaging in a highly destructive smear campaign the likes of which I never imagined possible or her even capable of. She's been incredibly convincing and has thus far, not yet failed to resonate. I've been arrested multiple times, jailed, fired from my job, criminally charged, force evicted twice, investigated by the IRS-state tax authorities-labor board-professional licensing board.

The list could go on. Her basic theme portrayed about me, is of a highly dangerous and mentally unstable man, likely to snap at any given moment. She has a 25 year significant history of multiple unexplained, idiopathic physical injuries over the years that I had recently figured out, were the result of her own self harming behavior. However, she's now claiming for  the first time in the history of our 25 year marriage, that I'm responsible for these injuries and that they were the result of my physical abuse to her.

Any of my attempts to counter this have only served to make things worse.

The results of this have been incredibly destructive and devastating for me and the kids. I'm also certain that this is having an incredibly negative impact on her life as well.

My ultimate goal is for us to reach some level of forgiveness and reconciliation, and for her to be properly diagnosed and treated. I'd like to move forward with my life and for her to do so as well.

I'm really pinning all of my hopes of that happening on this forensic psychiatric evaluation. Any advice from members of this community would be appreciated beyond words could ever express.

Thanks!

[GhostDad]

After a lot of  back and forth (almost like a hostage negotiation), I finally have an agreement among the parties for my soon to be BPDw and I to undergo forensic psychiatric evaluations.

Is there anyone out there, who might be able to offer any helpful personal insights or advice for me? Basic "do's or don't's"?

I'm told by my Attorney, that the Psychiatrist assigned to perform this evaluation, is eminently thorough and fair. This is likely to be my last, best hope for any reasonable chance of a fair, accurate assessment. And potentially the restoration of my relationship and visitatijon between my children and I, (which has been completely severed under order of the court, for the past 8 months). I have not had any degree of contact with them during this time.

I've spent 50 years on this Earth managing to stay out of any kind of trouble. 25 of those had been shared with my BPDw.

Unfortunately, when it became clear to my her, that our marriage was definitely coming to an end, she responded by engaging in a highly destructive smear campaign the likes of which I never imagined possible or her even capable of. She's been incredibly convincing and has thus far, not yet failed to resonate. I've been arrested multiple times, jailed, fired from my job, criminally charged, force evicted twice, investigated by the IRS-state tax authorities-labor board-professional licensing board.

The list could go on. Her basic theme portrayed about me, is of a highly dangerous and mentally unstable man, likely to snap at any given moment. She has a 25 year significant history of multiple unexplained, idiopathic physical injuries over the years that I had recently figured out, were the result of her own self harming behavior. However, she's now claiming for  the first time in the history of our 25 year marriage, that I'm responsible for these injuries and that they were the result of my physical abuse to her.

Any of my attempts to counter this have only served to make things worse.

The results of this have been incredibly destructive and devastating for me and the kids. I'm also certain that this is having an incredibly negative impact on her life as well.

My ultimate goal is for us to reach some level of forgiveness and reconciliation, and for her to be properly diagnosed and treated. I'd like to move forward with my life and for her to do so as well.

I'm really pinning all of my hopes of that happening on this forensic psychiatric evaluation. Any advice from members of this community would be appreciated beyond words could ever express.

Thanks!

[Indyan]

Hi Ghostdad, I'm sorry you've been through all this, the smear campaign you described  is even worse that mine (so far) 

Like you, I keep hoping that with proper diagnosis and treatment, my PBD would come out of this delirious and paranoid vortex he's putting us through.

Who asked for the psychiatric eval, was it you or her?

Because I'm seriously thinking of asking for one, and both my therapist and lawyer have mentionned it, but I'm scared nothing will come out from it. I've heard that here in France these evals highly depend on the psychiatrist and that sometimes it's just a 1h conversation and nothing else. Anyway... .

Sorry I can't bring any clever insight here, I just wanted to show support and interest, as I feel I'm only a few steps behind you.

[momtara]

you will get good advice here.

however, you mentioned at the end that you want to achieve forgiveness.  if she has BPD, i don't totally know that she has control over that, or that an eval will change any of that.

you have to look at the end result - it should hopefully help you get your kids back

as for advice, most people say not to badmouth the other person.  that doesn't mean you can't stick to facts about her disorder and behaviors.  just don't be cruel.  judging from what you wrote, you are reasonable, come off well, and are smart, so it shouldn't be a big problem for you.

i suppose this is a custody evaluation, not just a psych eval?  if it's a custody eval, they will and can look at everything.  so that should help you, hopefully.

others will have good advice, especially dads who've been through this. 

[GhostDad]

Hi Ghostdad, I'm sorry you've been through all this, the smear campaign you described  is even worse that mine (so far) 

Like you, I keep hoping that with proper diagnosis and treatment, my PBD would come out of this delirious and paranoid vortex he's putting us through.

Who asked for the psychiatric eval, was it you or her?

Because I'm seriously thinking of asking for one, and both my therapist and lawyer have mentionned it, but I'm scared nothing will come out from it. I've heard that here in France these evals highly depend on the psychiatrist and that sometimes it's just a 1h conversation and nothing else. Anyway... .

Sorry I can't bring any clever insight here, I just wanted to show support and interest, as I feel I'm only a few steps behind you.

Thanks for the supportive comments and I'm sorry to hear that you've also been made to suffer as well.

I've been asking for this eval for the past 18 months. It's taken this long to get to this point after being told repeatedly, no way was it going to happen.

I truly hope that we both have the good fortune to be evaluated by someone who knows and has value for what's at stake for both of us.

Good luck. Thanks again.

[GhostDad]

you will get good advice here.

however, you mentioned at the end that you want to achieve forgiveness.  if she has BPD, i don't totally know that she has control over that, or that an eval will change any of that.

you have to look at the end result - it should hopefully help you get your kids back

as for advice, most people say not to badmouth the other person.  that doesn't mean you can't stick to facts about her disorder and behaviors.  just don't be cruel.  judging from what you wrote, you are reasonable, come off well, and are smart, so it shouldn't be a big problem for you.

i suppose this is a custody evaluation, not just a psych eval?  if it's a custody eval, they will and can look at everything.  so that should help you, hopefully.

others will have good advice, especially dads who've been through this. 

Thanks for the advice. I'll take that advice to heart, for sure.

I do know that it will be a custody evaluation, as well.

As far as forgiveness is concerned, I'm only able to commit from my own heart. Never anyone else, especially her.

When she made the false report to CPS about me, I truly worried that I might one day leave this earth, still angry and unable to have forgiven her. So much more has been done since then that it's hard now to believe how naive' I was at that time.

A big part of the problem is that, she had been previously diagnosed with BPD for most of her adult life. Although they never used the clinical terminology, she remained unaware of the term "Borderline". I remember her telling me and my friends when we first started dating, "I'm just one of those people who feels things too much". That's what her counselors had always told her.

My professional colleagues were the ones who initially brought the "Borderline" diagnosis to light after hearing some of the stories about her problem behavior. And I, in turn reached out to her, of my concerns and for a diagnosis of BPD. Needless to say, she was adamantly opposed to such a diagnosis.

Shortly after that, our daughter accidentally overdosed on her xanax stowed in a candy container in her purse. My wife had come home that morning, passing out drunk, leaving her purse out for the baby to find. She was rushed to the emergency room and luckily, turned out ok. This happened about 11 years ago.

What I've just found out very recently, is that CPS had been activated by the Hospital to investigate my wife. I remember asking her specifically at that time, if CPS had contacted her about any of this. She adamantly denied it, and maintained that lie to me for over 10 years. I also found out recently, that CPS had "referred" her to a Psychiatrist. I was not aware of that at that time either. But I do remember her going to see that Psychiatrist and how resentful she was about doing so. I thought it was so odd at the time. Now, I understand why. That Psychiatrist who she was "referred to" by CPS, had also diagnosed her with BPD. She ultimately rejected that Doctor and his diagnosis.

She ended up a few months later, with a new Psychiatrist who diagnosed her with Bipolar Disorder on the very day of her initial appointment. She has retained both that Doctor and the Bipolar diagnosis as of this writing. While under the care of this doctor, she has essentially been treated via chemical restraints. Taking an amalgam of anti-depressants, mood stabilizers and benzodiazepine. Every time life became difficult or challenging, the good doctor was there making dosing adjustments or prescribing new medications, only to make her a bit more catatonic than she had previously been.

I'm truly hoping and praying that the forensic examiner assigned to this case can address these issues and bring about some degree of clarity. I truly feel that her current psychiatrist is an unethical quack and very much a part responsible for the incredible mess my family is in today.

I can't tell you how horrible I feel today, knowing that she had lied to me about this for so long. Also knowing now, that her recent false allegations of child abuse to CPS were entirely contrived and calculated upon the fact that she felt the need to "even the score" in a potential custody fight.

I'm just dumbfounded that she could sink so low. I feel so dumb about her lying and deceit. That I trusted her all that time. How could I have been so dumb?

Sorry for the incredible rant.

I'm truly hurting, more than I ever have in my life.

[momtara]

It is a very sad and tough thing.  But you have to switch your focus from her to the kids... .that is scary that your daughter could have died.  Keep gathering the evidence.  I'm glad you are getting the evaluation.  There are a few dads here who will give you really good advice once they notice your post. 

[ForeverDad]

I feel sorry for this.  I lived a similar implosion of my marriage of some 15 years but certainly not so disastrous regarding the allegations.

After a lot of  back and forth (almost like a hostage negotiation), I finally have an agreement among the parties for my soon to be BPDw and I to undergo forensic psychiatric evaluations.

"Forensic" psych evals does sound encouraging, too often psych evals are a couple tests and a short interview, mine was conducted by a grad student from a local university and it said I suffered from anxiety.  Yeah, no kidding, I could have told anyone that!  Both of us were ordered to take them and the results made available to both lawyers but I never heard whether my then-spouse ever took hers.

Later, after I filed for divorce, after mediation failed and after the court's parenting investigation recommended I get more time than the alternate weekends the magistrate had orders (never changed during the 23 month divorce) finally a custody evaluation was ordered.  It included a psych eval such as a few tests but went further and assessed what should be done about custody of my preschooler.

I had a custody evaluator, a very perceptive one, a child psychologist, and he noted the blocking behaviors of my ex and the entire report could have been summarized in these three sentences: "Mother cannot share 'her' child but father can... .  Mother should immediately lose her temporary custody... .  If Shared Parenting is tried and fails then father should get custody... ."

However, it wasn't easy.  Like you, I had allegations made against me, each one getting worse to the point of facing a risk of wearing an orange jumpsuit for years.  Fortunately I was never arrested, but I was the focus of multiple CPS cases over the years.  It's been over 9 years out and I'm still not fully recovered from it all.  (That I'm still here speaks that I haven't yet moved on totally.  Most here fade away once their lives are getting back on track.)

Good thing that what you have is more of a custody evaluation too.  This way you're relatively sure the professional will scrutinize you both, not just you.  Tell the truth, don't hide her past misbehaviors.  (However, be careful about being too forthcoming about your own actions.  For example, my ex would rant and rage into the wee hours of the morning.  I had to work a few hours later and she was still going strong.  She always complained she couldn't 'hear' my calm responses.  One time a raised my voice, boy did that get a gleam in her eye, "Aha, I got him to react!"  And she kept right on ranting and raging, raising my voice didn't stop her one bit.  I didn't mention that incident, I didn't have to volunteer my own actions that she could then twist into "He always screams at me and he even admitted it!"  So be careful, her lawyer and others might be happy to hear you admit "Yes, but... ."  All they may care about is the "Yes" and ignore the scenario.  Be aware.  Beware.

My lawyer always said his first duty to his clients was to sit on them to keep them from indiscriminate talking that could sabotage them.  He always said, If asked a question, answer it in as few words as possible and don't volunteer or go off on a tangent.  He also said it was okay to say "I don't know" or "I don't remember".

Is there anyone out there, who might be able to offer any helpful personal insights or advice for me? Basic "do's or don't's"?

I'm told by my Attorney, that the Psychiatrist assigned to perform this evaluation, is eminently thorough and fair. This is likely to be my last, best hope for any reasonable chance of a fair, accurate assessment. And potentially the restoration of my relationship and visitation between my children and I, (which has been completely severed under order of the court, for the past 8 months). I have not had any degree of contact with them during this time.

As much as you want to scream from the rooftops about her, try to be focused on the truth and especially on the children.  Even if this evaluation does not directly address custody, it should be enough to show that you have no major issues.  (Some minor ones might be suggested, but don't worry about that, (1) we all have minor issues and (2) after all you've gone through it would be surprising not to have some minor issues such as anxiety, PTSD, etc.  None of course would justify blocking all contact with the children for this length of time.

It's astounding that you haven't been allowed at least supervised visits.  Is there some legal reason, such as them wanting you to make a plea deal first?  (We all agree, plea deals are for perps and revolving door criminals, not targeted parents.  If you're innocent then a plea deal is out.)

The problem is that she's had 8 months to try to turn your children against you.  That is a huge concern for me.  At the beginning of the year they wouldn't have said you ever did anything wrong.  Now, though, with you out of the picture and her in full control... .

The children need counselors to assist them in dealing with the dysfunctional family environment.  Courts love counseling.  Your spouse will try to sabotage that or failing that then seek to get a gullible, easily conned counselor to join her ranks of "negative advocates".

In addition to Bill Eddy and his legal resources, another good expert is Richard Warshak, author of Divorce Poison.

The results of this have been incredibly destructive and devastating for me and the kids. I'm also certain that this is having an incredibly negative impact on her life as well.

At this point she is not on your list of priorities.  You, your children and your parenting are the priorities.  Everything else is at the bottom of the list.

My ultimate goal is for us to reach some level of forgiveness and reconciliation, and for her to be properly diagnosed and treated. I'd like to move forward with my life and for her to do so as well.

That makes total nonsense.  Misguided but unrealistic.  She's done everything but put you on the list of top 25 terrorists in the world, trying to ruin your life and your ability to parent and you still think reconciliation is a goal?

Okay, IF she gets into therapy, IF she diligently applies it in her thinking, perceptions, behaviors and entire life, IF she sticks with it for years and not just a few visits, then yes reconciliation is possible.  Otherwise, you can't trust any overtures of peace.  For example, she might be willing to reconcile if your report comes back glowing and you're given the red carpet by the court and she is the one on the outs, but you can't trust it, it would only last until (1) she cycled back into hate mode or (2) she was able to frame you for a new misbehavior.

The majority of us here have wished for our spouses to get diagnosed and start meaningful therapy.  Never happened.  Most courts don't care about diagnostic labels, not unless a high profile murders is involved.  And therapy is so iffy that most courts don't even bother, at most maybe some Anger Management classes.  Courts don't try to change or improve the parents or spouses, they're adults, courts deal with them as they are.

You case seems to have gone to such extremes that maybe you can get her diagnosed but don't count on it.  The reality is that you'll have to deal with her as she is. not as you want her to be.  (If you tell the courts or professionals you want her to change or you want her back, it's possible you could be wrongly painted as a 'controller'.)  A normal person would say, "I've been burned too badly, I need to keep distance between us.  I want to parent but any contact with her needs to be only about the children and structured carefully so I'm not put at risk of being targeted again."

This has been said many times so I don't know if there is an original quote to cite, but I remember on Star Trek the Enterprise's engineer Scotty finally exclaimed to those on the Bridge, speaking of the Klingons trying to keep luring the Enterprise away from Captain Kirk and the landing party with a second false distress signal, "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!"

[GhostDad]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Forever Dad.

Please know that, my interest in reconciliation lies exclusively in the realm of co-parenting. The day she made her false allegations to CPS, was the day I told her it was completely over. I had very little trust in her before that happened.

As for the suspension of visitation, let me say that I'm in a specialized court that handles cases of any alleged domestic violence. It's called the Integrated Domestic Violence Court. I walked in guilty, in the eyes of the judge, law guardians etc. The court is unabashedly and notoriously biased against men and makes no apologies for it or even attempts to pretend that it's not.

My limited visitation was taken away from me following her allegations that I hadn't treated the children with parity when buying them clothing. I had no lawyer at the time either. That was in April.

And yes, they keep pushing hard for a plea bargain from me. Even going as far as to characterize me in court as belligerent and uncooperative. That it's entirely my fault that there's been no progression in the case. Even that I'm literally taking food from the mouths of my children by paying for a criminal defense attorney. That I'm foolishly demanding a jury trial and that they're offering a sealed, non criminal disposition of a "violation".

The thing is, they've already classified her, as a victim of domestic violence. I think they truly need either a conviction (which is a long shot, indeed) or a plea bargain whereas I make some kind of formalized admission. Something that raises her accusations to a matter of law in order to justify the mission of the court and the huge benefit of the doubt afforded her so far in the process.

I swear, it's as though we're all participating in some kind of theater. Acting out a script written with an evil Villain (me). To all the rest of the players, I'm the actor who never remember his lines and keeps going off script by ad-libbing. This infuriates the heel out of them.

And finally, regarding my level of concern for her well being and recovery:

It is, completely within my best interests to see her properly diagnosed and treated effectively, as she will always be the mother of my children. They love and need her and she's the only Mom they'll ever have. Whatever is good for her, will be good for them. I do know that, maintaining this facade of an abuse victim at whatever cost will only serve to highly destructive ends.

But I also know how she thinks. The means always justify the ends.  As an example, I know she believes that it's completely acceptable to tell people that she's been physically abused even though she never had been. This is because she feels abused. And people will never understand the depths of intensity as she feels it. She cannot appropriately convey the pain she's experienced as it's actually played itself out. So making up a story is ok in her mind because all she's really doing, is simply translating it into a different language for people to understand. Nothing wrong with that, right? As long as her feelings are real then she has nothing to apologize about.

It's why she was able to tell me once, that she had cancer.

When I asked her about it some months later, she just made up some story about the doctors curing it with vitamin therapy. Years later, our neighbor did the exact same thing, ultimately admitting that she never had cancer. I brought this up as a concern and was totally shot down over it. And told what an insensitive jerk I was.

You see, because it felt so scary to her at the time, no one would really understand what she really going through. And the fake cancer patient would never receive the appropriate level of care and compassion from people. You see, it felt like cancer. Even though it wasn't. Everyone understands cancer, right? Sure they do. Just like everyone understands domestic violence.

It feels like cancer and domestic violence. If she told the truth, people would probably just tell her the normal things that normal people say to those who are going through a divorce. Or going through painful ovarian cysts. She sure as hell can't tell people that she has borderline personality disorder and that her perceptions of emotional pain are magnified by a factor of 100.

Not cancer. Not domestic violence.

But it sure does feels like it to her.

She's just translating her experience into a language that everyone else can understand. Perfectly normal, perfectly healthy.

[ForeverDad]

Sadly, a person with an acting-out PD such as BPD can posture all he or she wants, can gather negative advocates too, but it still doesn't change reality.  Likely the court often encounters lousy dads, guys who are in and out of the system it's like a revolving door to them.  And if a husband or father does claim he's really the target and abused one it's hard for the court to believe it.  The only thing to do is to continue maintaining your innocence, defend yourself and seek to resume parenting at some point.

E.S.T.Dad, a member here a few years ago, also faced a unified IDV court case such as yours.  It took time but in time it became apparent he really was a good man and father and he walked out (eventually) as an involved parent.  Here's one of his last posts to a newer member... .

We had another father (E.S.T.Dad) who was here a couple years ago and faced a similar situation as you in an IDV court, it was difficult but he was able to get a psychological evaluation ordered for both parents, not just himself.

Have you been ordered to take any tests or evaluations?  If possible, try to get any such things made applicable to you both.  Two possibles are a psychological evaluation or a custody evaluation.  Just try your best to have your wife included.  Your wife is projecting her behaviors onto you and projection is a known behavior indicating issues.  However, you don't have credibility with the court, you're not an 'expert', but if a social worker, psychologist or someone else does an evaluation and gets to see the children too, the expert's observations may help reverse the tables just a little.

These IDV situations can be bad, because they blur the line between criminal and civil matters.

As someone who has been accused of a crime, you have rights, and unfortunately the system - including your own attorney - may put a lot of pressure on you to give up those rights, maybe without fully realizing that you are giving them up.

Once that happens - for example, if you take a plea agreement, because you are told it will mean no jail and no fine - "You'll just have to take some classes" - you will be agreeing that you broke the law, and that may put you in a very weak position for custody.

Be very, very careful what you say to anyone about what happened.  Make sure that you know what your lawyer can disclose to someone else if you talk to her about it.  We assume that anything we tell an attorney can't be used against you, but I have found that is not always the case.  Make absolutely sure you know what the rules are before you tell your lawyer anything or sign anything.

If you accept any agreement which acknowledges guilt, even for a small matter, it will be used against you in the custody case.



Hello Rewards, I just read your post. It's been a while since I've been on here, but I thought I'd share some of what's happened to me. I too was in IDV on Long Island ( not sure where you are). Anyway, my ex took our son, had me arrested, made a TON of allegations and had an OP against me. I had a pretty incompetent lawyer. ( she went through FIVE). She's lied, lied, lied and manipulated everyone from me, to our child to the system itself. "They" ( BPD'S) are VERY. Good at that and you have to be EXTREMELY careful. Unfortunately, I took a plea to " make the charge go away." Trust me, I learned the hard way that it DOES NOT. However, I did have a very fair judge. So, even with the OP ( which is now expired) I have 45% custody PLUS SHARED RESIDENTIAL custody of our son. I also have him a majority of his "waking hours" and she has him mostly while he sleeps.

My best advice is to fight the OP. DON'T plead guilty to ANYTHING no matter how "minor" they tell you it is. The burden of proof is on her. Remember that. You can be just as fearful of her as she says she is of you. And it sounds that way to me. Another thing, file a petition for custody. Men tend NOT to do that which is why women USUALLY ( not always) are awarded custody. It's what is in the "best interest of the child." It's your job to prove that in this case it's you.

I'm not 100% satisfied with my arrangement. It's taking it's toll on my son to "bounce" back and forth so much from house to house, but until there's a "significant change in circumstance" ( when he starts school) I now know better. I'm hoping the court will see that he's better off here based on each of our ( parents) circumstances and what we can each provide for our son. My story is LONG. Like most on here, it this is a good place to get advice and help.

Let me know if I can assist in any way. You can inbox me with questions and I'll do my best to answer or offer any guidance. You DON'T have to settle for what SHE says you do. Fight for your kids. She doesn't "own" them. If you're a good dad, they deserve to be with you too. Good luck!

And this is how it turned out for Rewards2, eventually... .

WIN! Yeah!

For those of you remember me and for those of you who don't. Six kids, Still married. Closing in on divorce.

Wife had me arrested last January on false domestic violence charges and have been out of the house since.

Not to rehash all that old stuff, but the big news is that last Thursday in family court the children's law guardian suggested that the kids should move out of the mother's house to live with me. The judge did not agree to it but it was a major turnaround.

In addition, the mother is about to be evicted from the apt. The landlord told me the apt is destroyed and he wants her out. That takes at the most 11 months.

So the tide has turned. Until last Thursday I was on the defensive.

What I need are suggestions now... .

Does anyone have a strategy on how to press this advantage so that on Oct 3 , which is the next court date, I can get custody.

This is brief and there are many other issues of course, but the idea is that the the people involved are beginning to see that she is not able to properly care for the kids.

How can I take advantage of that?

There is hope... .eventually.   Just be aware that court and professionals will probably not apologize for what they have done for so long by enabling the misbehaving parent. :'(

[Rewards2]

Hi

Yes, things can get better. Even though I was arrested 3 times, eventually all the crim charges were dropped and that now seems like a distant memory. I did a few things to make that happen.

One is that I called the police myself and reported harassment. After that, things quieted down tremendously.

Two I maintained a very strict ZERO CONTACT police with her. No emails, texts, phone calls, NOTHING. And that is something I am still doing. It is not impossible. We have six kids, so if we can do it you probably can to. Last week we were in court and the judge suggested that we have a book that we pass back and forth with notes as a way of communication. That I agreed to do.

Until then I explained to anyone willing to listen: Just like you would not ask a woman who was victim of domestic violence to be in contact with her abuser, don't ask me to be in contact with mine.

At this point the kids are with me 4 days straight, then with her for 3 days.

We are still going through the custody, which I wish was over already. Seems to be taking forever.

But considering from where I started (arrested and removed from the house one night never to to return, sleeping in my office, etc) things have turned around quite a bit.

Stick to the truth and fight for what is right.

[Rewards2]

And after reading the posts may I add:

Please forget about her diagnosis and getting her help. You cannot help her. Your sole concern is you and the children. If she wants to get help, she will. There is no way, not after 25 years, that you can do that.

[livednlearned]

And after reading the posts may I add:

Please forget about her diagnosis and getting her help. You cannot help her. Your sole concern is you and the children. If she wants to get help, she will. There is no way, not after 25 years, that you can do that.

I agree so much with this. There are two and a half decades of dysfunctional dynamics in play, and you are the last person on earth who can help. You're out of the running completely. Whatever defended self is protecting them from being accountable or feeling shame for their behavior is  the same one that will make it impossible for you -- the person who shared the inner ring of intimacy that we called family life -- to have any impact.

She is more defended against you than anyone right now. Everything you say or suggest is twisted up in distorted thinking, and nothing you say will make a difference.

It just won't.

I wish I figured that out five years earlier than I did. My therapist kept telling me that the only thing that would motivate my ex to quit abusing drugs and me was if he hit rock bottom. I kept thinking he did -- waking up in his own feces after a bender wasn't rock bottom? But she pointed out that I was still there. So it wasn't rock bottom. Duh! When I left, he still didn't hit rock bottom. And he didn't hit rock bottom when he lost custody of his child, and then lost visitation. What I realized is that my ex can't experience rock bottom because he has these coping skills that make him so brilliantly defended from himself. When things start to feel uncomfortable or shameful, he becomes a victim and I become the perpetrator. He may hit rock bottom, but he won't see it that way. It will always be someone else's fault.

There is no way to help them.

They have to do it themselves.

[ForeverDad]

I've read this here way back and so I've referenced it often here:  One of the major reasons we can't be the ones to help them is because we have been in a close relationship with them.  Yes, that's right, because of our past close relationship.  BPD is a disorder that is most evident with close relationships, they closer you are or were, the more evident and pronounced the distorted thinking, feelings and perceptions are.  Think of the relationship impact as baggage, emotional baggage.  When she sees you or hears you, she doesn't see you or hear you, she sees or hears her perceived emotional baggage, she can't get past that.

That's why an experienced therapist or mental health professional will always keep emotions out of the sessions.  I recall the anonymous writer of "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me!" wrote near the end when her therapist said she had recovered, he gave her a hug goodbye and she never saw him again.  She remarked he had never in all the years of therapy even so much as touched her before.  He had kept the sessions totally professional and emotionally neutral.  That's one factor why the therapist succeeded and her spouse by himself couldn't, the spouse was too close emotionally and she couldn't see past that.

That's why everyone here is stating that she is very unlikely to listen to you in the untreated state she is in now.  And she may never listen to you (as you would expect a reasonably normal person to listen) ever again.

Radical acceptance.  Accept the current reality, stop wasting priceless time and finances hoping you can get her to do whatever and then figure out what your realistic options are using other strategies.  She will do what she will do, she's an adult, she's allowed to live her life as she pleases.  Your mission, Mr Phelps, is to secure your own future and safety and secure your parenting so that your children can have a better future and with you in it.

I wrote the above to help you break loose from any lingering hopes, though perhaps you've already done that.  I just want you to know - to your core - that you did what you could for all those years and you shouldn't guilt yourself thinking there might have been something you could have done better.  There wasn't.  Or that one day she might wake up and want you back into her endless cycles of love/hate.  You don't want that either.  This was a train wreck in slow motion that has been happening for years.  Maybe Superman could stop a train wreck but we sure can't.

[trappeddad]

After a lot of  back and forth (almost like a hostage negotiation), I finally have an agreement among the parties for my soon to be BPDw and I to undergo forensic psychiatric evaluations.

Is there anyone out there, who might be able to offer any helpful personal insights or advice for me? Basic "do's or don't's"?

[trappeddad]

i would not bank on the cutody eval working out.    my BPD ex manipulated the results to her benefit.    she also threatened to sue the evaluator or tell the press if she did not get her way.     as a result, the evaluator gave her a good evaluation.      the evaluator has a lot of discretion.    and it is costly to refute their work.     just do not be optimistic with the evaluation.     also have $ saved up if you need to dispute it.   

[Indyan]

And he didn't hit rock bottom when he lost custody of his child, and then lost visitation. What I realized is that my ex can't experience rock bottom because he has these coping skills that make him so brilliantly defended from himself. When things start to feel uncomfortable or shameful, he becomes a victim and I become the perpetrator. He may hit rock bottom, but he won't see it that way. It will always be someone else's fault.

There is no way to help them.

They have to do it themselves.

Wow.

I'm thinking exactly this at the moment.

That BPD/STPDx will eventually feel the sht he gave me. Now that he's alone, in a little appartment, maybe will he regret leaving so suddenly our family life?

Not even sure.

But now that visitations are arranged via the lawyer, he'll have no excuse for his depression. He can't say anymore "she's not letting me see my son, poor me, poor me."

So what is he going to find?

[picturelady]

My ultimate goal is for us to reach some level of forgiveness and reconciliation, and for her to be properly diagnosed and treated. I'd like to move forward with my life and for her to do so as well.

I'm really pinning all of my hopes of that happening on this forensic psychiatric evaluation. Any advice from members of this community would be appreciated beyond words could ever express.

Thanks!

First, so sorry you are going through this!  Many of us have been in your shoes or walked a similar path.

Second, you will probably find more peace and healing if you focus on goals which only involve you, since you only have power over your choices and behaviors, not hers.

In regards to the eval, these individuals are masters at mirroring or presenting a specific image when it achieves their goals for them.  And yes, this occurs even with the "best" forensic psychologists.  My uBPDex had to undergo an evaluation when in the process of our divorce - he was able to completely snow the guy, who is revered in our community.  

The best it can get with an exBPD is to come to a place of acceptance about all of this, to focus on your own wellness (a healthier dad is the best thing you can give your kids!), and to learn the skill of disengaging and not making things worse.  Move on with your life, be as healthy as possible, and love your kids!

SO difficult, painful, destructive, and I am SO very sorry you are going through this!   Your use of the term "hostage" is so accurate. 

PictureLady