had out third co parent counseling meeting

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I had a plan going in to disprove ex's allegations from the last two meetings but decided on the way there that I was going to go a different direction. Exposing ex with the truth at this point wasn't going to accomplish anything.

The counselor actually took charge, which was good, and started by asking what ex expected out of these meetings. He seems to be focusing on ex and by the way he is saying things I think he "gets it". Maybe not BPD but he gets where the major problem is.

Ex wants both kids and both of us to attend meetings ? Counselor put that to rest immediately. He said it might be possible if mom and kids come or dad and kids come but not both parents and kids. To much distrust between the two of us. I'm okay with that observation.

For the next 20 minutes or so he basically is helping ex with parenting strategies. How to help kids with homework, proper bedtimes for an 11 and 16 year old, consequences for the kids if they don't do their homework, etc... .Ex is eating this up and shaking her head in agreement. It was all normal parenting things. I had a lightbulb moment , ex has no idea how to parent. I mean totally clueless. The counselor then looks at me and asks me if I am in agreement. I point out that I believe ex is having difficulty with the children. I am not there so I would have to go with what she is saying. I then explain that the issues she has been describing are not happening when the boys are with me. I gave a few examples of things and how I handled them.

Ex changes course at this point. She is upset that when they boys are with me they refer to me as tubby. She doesn't like that because it is disrespectful and wants me to put my foot down when they are with me and stop them from using that term. She then goes into, without taking a breath, that I am always trying to micro manage her house. I saw projection first hand and it was fascinating.

The counselor stopped her ranting and asked me if I had a problem with the boys calling me tubby. I honestly laughed and said no. I told him that I was about 35 pounds heavier several years ago and I think that is when they started calling me by that nickname. I said I never took offense to it and said that I think boys normally have nicknames for each other. I know I did that when I was younger and still have friends from then and use the same nicknames. Ex then turned around and said it mattered to her and she didn't want the boys to call me that anymore ? The counselor turned to ex and said that she could only control what was going on in her house and that I could only control what was going on in my house.

He then went on, looking directly at ex, and said that oftentimes when parents divorce there is a power struggle until both parents have 50/50 custody. Ex has majority of time at this point. He was looking at ex but seemed to be talking to me. He went on to explain that once 50/50 is the norm then the power struggle ceases and the parent that thought they had the power gives up and the other parent gets more and more time with the children. It went right over ex's head. I had a slight urge to explain to her what he was saying but decided that wasn't a good idea. Matt had this happen to him and it seems like a common thing.

Time ran out so we have another get together when we can find a common time to meet.

The denial, twisting the truth, projection and all the other crazy making was on full display. I am learning that the best way to deal with my ex is to say little and parallel parent.

My atty called to see how things were going and I told him what happened. He seemed genuinely puzzled. He then said ex's atty wants me to agree to a continuance since we only had three meetings with the counselor. I said absolutely not and that we have a date set in two weeks and that is that. I did tell him to offer that if ex agrees to the custody changes that I would be more then willing to let him handle the paperwork and pay for that myself instead of going to court. 

[david]

I had a plan going in to disprove ex's allegations from the last two meetings but decided on the way there that I was going to go a different direction. Exposing ex with the truth at this point wasn't going to accomplish anything.

The counselor actually took charge, which was good, and started by asking what ex expected out of these meetings. He seems to be focusing on ex and by the way he is saying things I think he "gets it". Maybe not BPD but he gets where the major problem is.

Ex wants both kids and both of us to attend meetings ? Counselor put that to rest immediately. He said it might be possible if mom and kids come or dad and kids come but not both parents and kids. To much distrust between the two of us. I'm okay with that observation.

For the next 20 minutes or so he basically is helping ex with parenting strategies. How to help kids with homework, proper bedtimes for an 11 and 16 year old, consequences for the kids if they don't do their homework, etc... .Ex is eating this up and shaking her head in agreement. It was all normal parenting things. I had a lightbulb moment , ex has no idea how to parent. I mean totally clueless. The counselor then looks at me and asks me if I am in agreement. I point out that I believe ex is having difficulty with the children. I am not there so I would have to go with what she is saying. I then explain that the issues she has been describing are not happening when the boys are with me. I gave a few examples of things and how I handled them.

Ex changes course at this point. She is upset that when they boys are with me they refer to me as tubby. She doesn't like that because it is disrespectful and wants me to put my foot down when they are with me and stop them from using that term. She then goes into, without taking a breath, that I am always trying to micro manage her house. I saw projection first hand and it was fascinating.

The counselor stopped her ranting and asked me if I had a problem with the boys calling me tubby. I honestly laughed and said no. I told him that I was about 35 pounds heavier several years ago and I think that is when they started calling me by that nickname. I said I never took offense to it and said that I think boys normally have nicknames for each other. I know I did that when I was younger and still have friends from then and use the same nicknames. Ex then turned around and said it mattered to her and she didn't want the boys to call me that anymore ? The counselor turned to ex and said that she could only control what was going on in her house and that I could only control what was going on in my house.

He then went on, looking directly at ex, and said that oftentimes when parents divorce there is a power struggle until both parents have 50/50 custody. Ex has majority of time at this point. He was looking at ex but seemed to be talking to me. He went on to explain that once 50/50 is the norm then the power struggle ceases and the parent that thought they had the power gives up and the other parent gets more and more time with the children. It went right over ex's head. I had a slight urge to explain to her what he was saying but decided that wasn't a good idea. Matt had this happen to him and it seems like a common thing.

Time ran out so we have another get together when we can find a common time to meet.

The denial, twisting the truth, projection and all the other crazy making was on full display. I am learning that the best way to deal with my ex is to say little and parallel parent.

My atty called to see how things were going and I told him what happened. He seemed genuinely puzzled. He then said ex's atty wants me to agree to a continuance since we only had three meetings with the counselor. I said absolutely not and that we have a date set in two weeks and that is that. I did tell him to offer that if ex agrees to the custody changes that I would be more then willing to let him handle the paperwork and pay for that myself instead of going to court. 

[livednlearned]

My atty called to see how things were going and I told him what happened. He seemed genuinely puzzled. He then said ex's atty wants me to agree to a continuance since we only had three meetings with the counselor. I said absolutely not and that we have a date set in two weeks and that is that. I did tell him to offer that if ex agrees to the custody changes that I would be more then willing to let him handle the paperwork and pay for that myself instead of going to court. 

What was your atty puzzled by?

Good that you stuck to the date and didn't grant a continuance. How many counseling sessions did the other attorney think was reasonable?

[david]

He was puzzled by ex's actions. I have told him things before and he shakes his head and says it doesn't make sense. He asked me what I thought before and I really haven't discussed BPD with him.

There was no number of sessions. My atty sent me the email and all it said was that we only had two sessions and wanted to know if I would agree to a continuance until we had more sessions. Her atty also seemed to indicate that the boys should be involved in the sessions. I am not sure whether that was ex's idea since she brought it up at the meeting or it was the atty's idea. The counselor didn't think it was a good idea anyway and neither did I so that became a non issue.

I filed for modification of custody in August 2012 and ex has dragged this out for over two years. It was frustrating at times but ex gave me more evidence during that time. My petition stated that both boys do over 90% of their homework when they are with me and that hasn't changed in the last two years. I have copies of every homework our now S11 has done for the last three school years.

We had a court date set in Sept of this year and the judge saw how much evidence my atty had so he was the one the postponed the hearing that day because it would have taken too long. He temporarily granted me the extra time I was seeking. Since that time both boys grades have gone up significantly from the previous two years. I view it as simply giving the judge only one choice so it should be easy for him to make a ruling.

I sat and listened most of the time during the sessions. Ex is clearly lost and has no idea what to do with the boys. She was a pretty good caretaker when they were infants but once their complete helplessness began to fade she was unable to adapt or cope. She has other children from her first marriage and has pretty much pushed them away too.

The way she switched from subjects during this last session and the connections she was trying to make to explain her thought process was extremely disjointed. I have become a much better listener as a single parent. Her explanations/reasoning/thought process are emotionally based and empty of any real substance.  There is very little about the two boys and she is more focused on herself. I can see how her own issues are overwhelming her as she jumps around. When she gets to close to something she is not comfortable with she switches to something else to avoid facing the direction she is going. It happens so quickly I don't think she is consciously doing it.

When she first left she emptied our house of practically everything. She did leave a journal. The time was about two year prior to us meeting and about 6 months afterwards. When she wrote about me she indicated I helped stabilize her. I didn't know what that meant until this last meeting.

[momtara]

This sounds pretty good to me.

The PC seems to be shutting down her ranting and nuttiness and getting to the point.

... .and he seems to like the idea of 50/50.

And I like the direction you're going with court.

But perhaps you should still counteract some of her lies.  I think we are often afraid of looking bad by saying things against the other person, but at least you could counteract some of the lies.  Would it make sense for each of you to have a private meeting with the therapist?  Then you could tell the truth not in front of her.

[livednlearned]

It sounds like you think the T gets what is going on? If the T seems to see who the problem is, I don't know that you need to set the record straight.

Because if you assert the truth, it could escalate ex's defensiveness, and the T might take that as provoking or escalating conflict.

You could try a different tactic if you want to clarify disordered, distorted, disjointed thinking without increasing defensiveness, which is to ask the therapist directly, either during the session if it seems appropriate or after. "My ex makes false statements and I am not certain whether to set the record straight because it will escalate conflict. And yet, if I don't say anything, it feels wrong. Do you have any recommendations for how I handle this? I have opted to say nothing, although I know that I'm a role model for my kids, and want them to grow up asserting themselves and having enough confidence when someone denigrates them."