How do others deal with the lack of intimacy in a BPD marriage?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi.  You're right, without having a history of therapy and understanding the disease, our evening last night would have NOT gone the same way.  And it takes a willingness to bend and grow on BOTH sides of the r/s for things to get better.

If she isn't in a place where she can do this, than she just isn't there now.  Doesn't mean it's impossible to achieve, only that it's not in the cards now.  I can say this with complete certainty now. 

Well-led effort on both parts = results! 

[Crumbling]

Hi.  You're right, without having a history of therapy and understanding the disease, our evening last night would have NOT gone the same way.  And it takes a willingness to bend and grow on BOTH sides of the r/s for things to get better.

If she isn't in a place where she can do this, than she just isn't there now.  Doesn't mean it's impossible to achieve, only that it's not in the cards now.  I can say this with complete certainty now. 

Well-led effort on both parts = results! 

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

because it's "unfair" that she has to do it when she it doesn't give her immediate pleasure.

I would ask her to help you understand this... .

Listen... .don't challenge what she says... .look for things to validate.

[ColdEthyl]

when exactly am I supposed to be aggressive or initiate sex? 

No time like right now!  Go for it!

So... seriously... .what if you asked him to go to take a shower... .or that you would go take one with him... .would he say no?

If he does say no... .any history of "scheduling" this kind of thing.

Here is the big point... .is that if there are things in the r/s that us "nons" are not happy with... .And I get it loud and clear from cold ethyl that she is not happy with her intimate life right now... .then it is up to us... ."the nons" to take charge of fixing it.

Listen... .even bigger general statement.  Waiting on a pwBPD traits to fix things in a r/s is not a good strategy.

Intimate issues are no different... .

I guess that's sort of my problem. Sometimes he will... sometimes he won't. When he doesn't want to, I feel horrible. I feel like I put myself out there only to be smacked down. It literally takes me days to muster up the courage to even try, so when it doesn't work I just feel... .embarrassed, unappealing, and stupid for even trying to begin with. Mind you, I don't put these issues on him, how I feel is not his fault. But this is a product of 3 years of weirdness now.

[Ripped Heart]

Things seem back to "normal" with BPDgf right now. In terms of I'm painted white, plans still going ahead for Christmas etc... .

A conversation with her last night brought something home about this topic which perhaps previously I've not addressed in the correct way. I now know that there is no intimacy in our r/s only sex. Also, that it's not just her, I have failed to miss the signals because of how they are presented. She doesn't seem to have a filter on what comes out of her mouth at times, which can be hurtful.

How would you react if your gf pointed out another guy and told you that she would love to sit on his knee with no pants on? I've reacted to that comment in the past with a little hurt, rejection, confusion and pain. In turn, that's then upset her but to be honest, I have no idea what else to say around it. It hurts more when that comment comes in the midst of gf pushing away advances because of being "tired" or not in the mood, or even that she is in a comfortable spot in bed and doesn't want to move.

Previously, I've swallowed my ego and even commented back, matching her at her level. Again, that goes down like a lead balloon and usually ends up with her very hurt and upset because I must be checking out other women. It's something I've not been able to comprehend in that it's ok for one but not the other but I do get that 2 wrongs don't make a right. To be fair, this is where I've been unfair on her. It's not like I would ever do anything, the reason behind my comments has been to show her how it "feels" to hear them and I know now that is completely the wrong approach, regardless of the level of frustration.

I've started to find that when she makes those kinds of comments, if I then initiate anything, she is far more receptive and it brings a different dynamic to the r/s. Listening/reading some of the comments on here around waiting on our partners hit home. For me personally, intimacy is about feeling loved, valued, close and a special bond between 2 people. I know that was how it felt in the beginning but I also now know for gf its what she needs to feel loved.

[ColdEthyl]

Things seem back to "normal" with BPDgf right now. In terms of I'm painted white, plans still going ahead for Christmas etc... .

A conversation with her last night brought something home about this topic which perhaps previously I've not addressed in the correct way. I now know that there is no intimacy in our r/s only sex. Also, that it's not just her, I have failed to miss the signals because of how they are presented. She doesn't seem to have a filter on what comes out of her mouth at times, which can be hurtful.

How would you react if your gf pointed out another guy and told you that she would love to sit on his knee with no pants on? I've reacted to that comment in the past with a little hurt, rejection, confusion and pain. In turn, that's then upset her but to be honest, I have no idea what else to say around it. It hurts more when that comment comes in the midst of gf pushing away advances because of being "tired" or not in the mood, or even that she is in a comfortable spot in bed and doesn't want to move.

Previously, I've swallowed my ego and even commented back, matching her at her level. Again, that goes down like a lead balloon and usually ends up with her very hurt and upset because I must be checking out other women. It's something I've not been able to comprehend in that it's ok for one but not the other but I do get that 2 wrongs don't make a right. To be fair, this is where I've been unfair on her. It's not like I would ever do anything, the reason behind my comments has been to show her how it "feels" to hear them and I know now that is completely the wrong approach, regardless of the level of frustration.

I've started to find that when she makes those kinds of comments, if I then initiate anything, she is far more receptive and it brings a different dynamic to the r/s. Listening/reading some of the comments on here around waiting on our partners hit home. For me personally, intimacy is about feeling loved, valued, close and a special bond between 2 people. I know that was how it felt in the beginning but I also now know for gf its what she needs to feel loved.

*sigh* I get jealous too sometimes when I feel neglected, and my dBPDh will make a comment about how cute a girl is on TV or something like that. e's never gone as far as your gf, though. I have felt the same... .you can't/don't initiate anything with me at all, but you are gonna comment on how pretty someone else is, or how big that girl's jugs are. Yeah... .it hurts.

They don't have a filter. They don't consider what they are saying, and have no real idea it will hurt you. OF course, when you tell them you are hurt, then that's what they get defensive, because they don't want to have done something wrong.

I've done what you done just started giving it back to him with commenting.

[maxsterling]

It's a touchy subject because nobody likes to feel sexually used.  I think most of us want to be loved and touched with kindness, want our sexual experiences to be shared and mutually fulfilling.  I think sex carries much more weight than other communication issues in our relationships.  I guess I can handle it if she does on some kind of rage and says all kinds of mean things, but when it comes to sex, an un-loving, disrespectful attitude really messes with me.  And of course if I even come close to trying to bring this up with her, her defenses go through the roof, and things feel much worse.  In most areas I think I can be an emotional leader in this r/s, but this is not one of them.  I don't think I can put the "cart before the horse" here.  My wife clearly has issues with sex that require serious psychological help.  I think I am on real thin ice if I try to navigate those issues, and I think my best course here is to not push things.

And the rest may be TMI, but I think relevant... .I will try to keep on topic.

I had a previous girlfriend, likely BPD, who had what I considered an awkward and unhealthy obsession with a part of my anatomy.  She went so far as to create pet names for that part of my anatomy, name her computer hard drive with that pet name, and ask me awkward questions regarding that, and about my brother and my father    .  It was just incredibly uncomfortable, and I felt used and violated.

When I met my now wide, we had a conversation about this - with me explaining that my previous relationship left me feeling used in this area.  My wife listened, but did get uneasy with the thought of me being sexual with anyone else prior to her.  Fast forward to now.  As I mentioned, the past month or so has been rough in this area, with her mostly being cold and not in the mood.  the past week, she has been turned on again, but now it's all about sex, not about love.  At least that is what I feel - with her wanting to grab at me and make crude jokes or comments, especially around certain areas of my anatomy.  And I am back to kinda feeling used again.  Last night she even commented in bed about how I once told her my ex was obsessed in a certain way, and she now declared she is "obsessed" in that way.  I just feel incredibly uncomfortable. 

[ColdEthyl]

It's a touchy subject because nobody likes to feel sexually used.  I think most of us want to be loved and touched with kindness, want our sexual experiences to be shared and mutually fulfilling.  I think sex carries much more weight than other communication issues in our relationships.  I guess I can handle it if she does on some kind of rage and says all kinds of mean things, but when it comes to sex, an un-loving, disrespectful attitude really messes with me.  And of course if I even come close to trying to bring this up with her, her defenses go through the roof, and things feel much worse.  In most areas I think I can be an emotional leader in this r/s, but this is not one of them.  I don't think I can put the "cart before the horse" here.  My wife clearly has issues with sex that require serious psychological help.  I think I am on real thin ice if I try to navigate those issues, and I think my best course here is to not push things.

And the rest may be TMI, but I think relevant... .I will try to keep on topic.

I had a previous girlfriend, likely BPD, who had what I considered an awkward and unhealthy obsession with a part of my anatomy.  She went so far as to create pet names for that part of my anatomy, name her computer hard drive with that pet name, and ask me awkward questions regarding that, and about my brother and my father    .  It was just incredibly uncomfortable, and I felt used and violated.

When I met my now wide, we had a conversation about this - with me explaining that my previous relationship left me feeling used in this area.  My wife listened, but did get uneasy with the thought of me being sexual with anyone else prior to her.  Fast forward to now.  As I mentioned, the past month or so has been rough in this area, with her mostly being cold and not in the mood.  the past week, she has been turned on again, but now it's all about sex, not about love.  At least that is what I feel - with her wanting to grab at me and make crude jokes or comments, especially around certain areas of my anatomy.  And I am back to kinda feeling used again.  Last night she even commented in bed about how I once told her my ex was obsessed in a certain way, and she now declared she is "obsessed" in that way.  I just feel incredibly uncomfortable. 

Blah I'm so sorry Max D: My husband told me before he hates sex and the pressures that come with it, and if he never had sex again, he wouldn't care. Then, he continuously asks me how I feel, and I'm honest. I tell him I understand how he feels, and sex isn't everything to me, and not the most important, but I do miss it and would like a healthier sex life. Usually what's going to follow after that is asking me if I'm cheating, if I did he doesn't blame me, when I say I'm not and I don't want to, his answer is always "But you could. Admit that you could." He NEEDS me to say I can if I want to. I guess it all comes from that insecurity he's feeling.

I don't know. I guess I'll just... .keeping trying.

[Ripped Heart]

*sigh* I get jealous too sometimes when I feel neglected, and my dBPDh will make a comment about how cute a girl is on TV or something like that. e's never gone as far as your gf, though. I have felt the same... .you can't/don't initiate anything with me at all, but you are gonna comment on how pretty someone else is, or how big that girl's jugs are. Yeah... .it hurts.

They don't have a filter. They don't consider what they are saying, and have no real idea it will hurt you. OF course, when you tell them you are hurt, then that's what they get defensive, because they don't want to have done something wrong.

I've done what you done just started giving it back to him with commenting.

ColdEthyl  

It puts us in a very difficult situation, damned if we do and damned if we don't. It's a lot harder when the comment is being made to us about someone else given the whirlwind of our own relationships. I know with myself it's around feeling secure and often these comments come at a time when we don't feel so secure and have our own level of self doubt. I guess it's all about timing and those types of comments aren't exactly best placed.

Personally I also find it very ironic, because I'm supposed to be the one with no filter.   Yet I do have an understanding about when to say something and when not. My default if I'm unsure of saying something is not to say anything until I process it through in my head especially if I sense it might hurt someone by saying it.

How has commenting back worked for you? Does it make things better or worse? I know in my case it doesn't work because it plays on her insecurities and sends her into a downward spiral. I don't want to do that to her so I've stopped but at a complete loss as to how to handle the situation.

[ColdEthyl]

*sigh* I get jealous too sometimes when I feel neglected, and my dBPDh will make a comment about how cute a girl is on TV or something like that. e's never gone as far as your gf, though. I have felt the same... .you can't/don't initiate anything with me at all, but you are gonna comment on how pretty someone else is, or how big that girl's jugs are. Yeah... .it hurts.

They don't have a filter. They don't consider what they are saying, and have no real idea it will hurt you. OF course, when you tell them you are hurt, then that's what they get defensive, because they don't want to have done something wrong.

I've done what you done just started giving it back to him with commenting.

ColdEthyl  

It puts us in a very difficult situation, damned if we do and damned if we don't. It's a lot harder when the comment is being made to us about someone else given the whirlwind of our own relationships. I know with myself it's around feeling secure and often these comments come at a time when we don't feel so secure and have our own level of self doubt. I guess it's all about timing and those types of comments aren't exactly best placed.

Personally I also find it very ironic, because I'm supposed to be the one with no filter.   Yet I do have an understanding about when to say something and when not. My default if I'm unsure of saying something is not to say anything until I process it through in my head especially if I sense it might hurt someone by saying it.

How has commenting back worked for you? Does it make things better or worse? I know in my case it doesn't work because it plays on her insecurities and sends her into a downward spiral. I don't want to do that to her so I've stopped but at a complete loss as to how to handle the situation.

He doesn't react. It's like I was one of his buddies talking football. We started talking about things last night but he was drinking, so I should have known it wasn't going too well. He brought up this facebook app I play. It's a game that you breed sell/animals in. He said with all the typing I do I must be talking to another guy. *sigh* No... .I type to make sales and to name pets. I talk to another person once a week maybe. Most of the people who play this game are female. All I could keep saying was I understand how he feels, and I could see why he might think that, but this is what I am doing.

I made the mistake of JADE by trying to show him. Do you know what he said? I'm not looking at it, I don't have my glasses on and I can't read it. I tried to read it out loud and he just kept repeating that phrase.

He had to reject anything that didn't fit his narrative. This morning, he was fine. He blew it all off and said honey... .don't be listening to my dumb Sh**. I'm still a bit sad. I know I *shouldn't* feel bad, since I know his accusations come from his own insecurity about himself (he isn't happy with not working this past year. Right before this, he was saying how worthless he was), but I still do feel sad sometimes about what he thinks. It's really sad that I am completely faithful  to the point where I even feel bad looking at a shirtless man on TV, but he still thinks these things of me. Frustrating.

I'm glad I'm working today. I can take the day to process it, let it go and start fresh when I get home. It really must suck to be that insecure all the time, that you think your spouse could be cheating over a facebook app game.

[formflier]

[  When he doesn't want to, I feel horrible. I feel like I put myself out there only to be smacked down. 

I'm going to make a bit of a stretch here... .but... .think about the feeling that you have when you say "i feel horrible".

I'm going to think that you were wanted to be "validated"... .that you were "worthy" or "attractive".  Depending on how the "turn down" happened... .it may not have been "invalidating"... .it may just have lacked validation.  Or... .if horrible things were said... .it could be "invalidating" to you.

So... .here is the stretch... I hope this works... .   

Hopefully this will impress on you the importance of validation in a r/s... .and even more so the importance of staying away from "invalidating" your partner... .especially if that partner displays BPD traits.

Thoughts?  Does the stretch or the connection work?

[formflier]

How would you react if your gf pointed out another guy and told you that she would love to sit on his knee with no pants on? I've reacted to that comment in the past with a little hurt, rejection, confusion and pain. In turn, that's then upset her but to be honest, I have no idea what else to say around it. It hurts more when that comment comes in the midst of gf pushing away advances because of being "tired" or not in the mood, or even that she is in a comfortable spot in bed and doesn't want to move.

First... key thing is "don't react"... .but "respond appropriately".

HUGE difference... .HUGE. 

So... we can all agree the comment is ridiculous and is most likely designed for you to "take the bait" and start a fight. The probably don't consciously think this... .but that is the "order to the disorder" that it seems that way.

My suggestion is that you just ask for help understanding how to best respond to that comment... .be even in your delivery.  Be ready for come backs such as "So you are saying I'm doing something wrong... .?"... .don't agree or disagree... .

Make it all about you wanting to understand the comment... .eventually work it around to "how is that comment helpful to our r/s?"

Listen for things and feelings to validate.  And eventually... .get to the point of telling her that in your opinion you would rather not listen to those comments from her.

Don't say that she is wrong for making them... just make a request that she not make them.

Thoughts?  Can you practice this alone several times before attempting it?

[Ripped Heart]

Formflier, that makes perfect sense. Many thanks for your response.

At the time, I felt a little hurt and taken aback and although I didn't say anything, I think it showed. Its one of the comments that comes out of left field but the way you describe the process below, its something that could be applied to several comments.

Again, many thanks

[formflier]

 

And... .it can be said honestly. 

Here the thing... .when a whacky comment comes out of left field.  I really do need help understanding. So... I focus on trying not to be a smart ass... and giving an even delivery... .but with practice that gets pretty easy.

Because... .I really do need help understanding... .

It's a comment... .and a "point of view"... .

[jedimaster]

I'm wondering if the sex/intimacy issue is such a difficult one because, at either a conscious or unconscious level, our SO's know it's the one area where they have us over a barrel.  With effort and time, most of us can set and enforce boundaries, carve out time/activities for ourselves, etc. in other areas of our lives.  But we're constrained when it comes to sex, either because of our personal morals/values or because we know cheating will irreparably damage the r/s.  So it's their way or the highway, and they know it.

I'm saddened when I read how young some of you are and facing life with no physical intimacy.  I'm 53 and been married over 30 years, and I'm certainly not ready for permanent celibacy.  I don't mean to be crude, but I'd like to use it a while longer while it still works! 

This is definitely a tough one for all of us.  What to do?  I don't really know... .   

[formflier]

 

Jedi,

Looking at if from their shoes... .their point of view... .we have them over a barrel as well... .and... .on some level they know it.

I would express it in this way.

The way "nons" and "pwBPD traits" relate on many issues is very different.  Not saying wrong or right... .just very different.  Usually the more intimate... .the more "something" matters... .the "odder" the differences can be in the way we communicate.

Once you realize that intimate things really matter and that on issues that "really matter" it is easier for both sides to get their feelings hurt... .you have a recipe for disaster.

We see that disaster all over these boards.

Luckily... .we also see on these boards that with patient... consistent use of the rules... .tools... .boundaries... .and the realization that these styles of communication are different... .not that they are right or wrong... .    We see real lasting change and deeper more satisfying intimacy.

[ColdEthyl]

I'm wondering if the sex/intimacy issue is such a difficult one because, at either a conscious or unconscious level, our SO's know it's the one area where they have us over a barrel.  With effort and time, most of us can set and enforce boundaries, carve out time/activities for ourselves, etc. in other areas of our lives.  But we're constrained when it comes to sex, either because of our personal morals/values or because we know cheating will irreparably damage the r/s.  So it's their way or the highway, and they know it.

I'm saddened when I read how young some of you are and facing life with no physical intimacy.  I'm 53 and been married over 30 years, and I'm certainly not ready for permanent celibacy.  I don't mean to be crude, but I'd like to use it a while longer while it still works! 

This is definitely a tough one for all of us.  What to do?  I don't really know... .   

The thing for me is he's still working and progressing. 4 years ago, we couldn't even talk about his issue like we do now. So, I really do think over time we will get to a different plateau. My SO is 49, so what I hear a lot is about 'how old he is' and 'this is what i get for marrying an old man' he reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally is insecure about aging. Not a huge fan of it.

Since I know where it's coming from, I can work towards a common goal. Flier gave me some great communication ideas that might help us out. It's about finding the right way to say things that don't trigger his insecurities and overall BPDness.

BTW flier... .I DID try the 'take a shower with me' bit on Christmas. He was laying in bed reading his laptop and I started to massage/kiss him, and talking dirty and being aggressive like he said he needed. My offer was a damn good one... .I offered a BJ for him... .no expectations, no string attached.

At one point when I looked up from kissing his neck, he was staring right at me, and it was a look that I knew I was about to be brushed off. He said he needed a shower, I offered to shower with him. He declined, and asked for a rain check.

/sigh back to the drawing board.

[formflier]

He said he needed a shower, I offered to shower with him. He declined, and asked for a rain check.

ColdEthyl,

Thanks for trying... .it sounds like you did your best.  And I want to assure you he noted the effort... .who knows when or if it will be acknowledged... .but he noticed. 

Any idea if it triggered any emotions in him?  Did he seem frustrated... .or mad? 

I'm wondering if there was a point in there where some validation would have "tamped down" his internal desire to brush you off.

Last thought for now... .when is the rain check scheduled for?  I would push for something soon... .best is to mutually agree on it when the rain check is offered... .

Such as sure honey... .no problem on a rain check.  See you here in 3 hours!... .something like that.

Again... .thanks for the effort and thanks for sharing this intimate part of your life with everyone on the board.  I think it will help more people that you can ever imagine... .

[ColdEthyl]

He said he needed a shower, I offered to shower with him. He declined, and asked for a rain check.

ColdEthyl,

Thanks for trying... .it sounds like you did your best.  And I want to assure you he noted the effort... .who knows when or if it will be acknowledged... .but he noticed. 

Any idea if it triggered any emotions in him?  Did he seem frustrated... .or mad? 

I'm wondering if there was a point in there where some validation would have "tamped down" his internal desire to brush you off.

Last thought for now... .when is the rain check scheduled for?  I would push for something soon... .best is to mutually agree on it when the rain check is offered... .

Such as sure honey... .no problem on a rain check.  See you here in 3 hours!... .something like that.

Again... .thanks for the effort and thanks for sharing this intimate part of your life with everyone on the board.  I think it will help more people that you can ever imagine... .

I'm hoping so. I see others have the same problems, and probably more who are not comfortable talking about it. I will ask him about that rain check tonight

No flier there isn't anything in particular, it's just he is very high self-conscious about his ED (whether psychical or mental, still up in the air), and nothing I say can make him feel better about it. I had hoped over time my continued attention to him, expressing my desire for him, complimenting him would bring him around.

I don't want to make this an issue where I try to force him to go to a doctor, or put boundaries on it. It doesn't seem fair of me to do that if he's having a physical issue.

[vortex of confusion]

  I don't know if I can have sex if I am "not in the mood" simply for the point of being the emotional leader. 

Understand... .

How about a naked back rub... .with oil.  Or other things "less than" the full menu. 

The point seems to be that you are doing something physically for the other person... .not for you.  That you are giving of yourself and are trying to do things that please the other person.

The hope is that they will reciprocate... .not in a transactional kind of way... .but in a "i appreciate the effort you make for me... .so I will make an effort for you... ."  way.

I know what you are trying to say here FF but I have done and tried so many different things with regards to the physical parts of our relationship only to get nothing in return. My husband seems to be incapable of making an effort for me. Maybe the sex addiction is complicating things but I have read so many different things and tried so many different approaches to get some kind of release/attention/whatever with my husband. The more I gave and tried, the more he wanted. He never saw it as "I appreciate your effort so I am going to try to make an effort for you." That is not how things work for my husband.

When I read your suggestion, it makes me very, very sad because I feel like I have tried everything. I used to rub his back at night like his mom did so he could fall asleep. And I would hold HIM or cuddle on him even though he would turn his back to me. Now, I have moved to the couch and that is where I sleep because I cannot take all of the rejection.

[jedimaster]

ColdEthyl, does he have any other physical issues that might exacerbate his ED?  I dealt with ED for a while, but when I lost weight and started exercising, I was back to my old self eventually.  In the meantime I was only too glad to get a little pharmaceutical help.  If he's at all interested in physical fitness, perhaps he'd be willing to try the drugs on an interim basis while he worked on his health.  Something like, "How about we give it six months while we both get some exercise and get a little more fit, and see if that helps? And if you'd be willing to consider Viagra just as a helper during that time, it would just be with the goal of not having to use it?"  

I don't know your situation but just a thought... .

[ColdEthyl]

ColdEthyl, does he have any other physical issues that might exacerbate his ED?  I dealt with ED for a while, but when I lost weight and started exercising, I was back to my old self eventually.  In the meantime I was only too glad to get a little pharmaceutical help.  If he's at all interested in physical fitness, perhaps he'd be willing to try the drugs on an interim basis while he worked on his health.  Something like, "How about we give it six months while we both get some exercise and get a little more fit, and see if that helps? And if you'd be willing to consider Viagra just as a helper during that time, it would just be with the goal of not having to use it?"  

I don't know your situation but just a thought... .

It's a snowball effect as you can imagine. He hasn't worked in a year, so he has put some weight on. Add a dash of depression, self-body issues, issues with aging, and a big ol scoop of BPD and he doesn't stand a chance.

I would be ok with him having Viagra, but he won't go to the doctor. He doesn't like medicine, he won't take it. I've had the Viagra talk a few times with him, and what it ended up like was with dysregulation and him saying things like "You would be ok with that? A medicated D***? You know it's nature's way of saying you are old and too old to be reproducing, and that's what sex is for"

FML. 

[formflier]

I'm hoping so. I see others have the same problems, and probably more who are not comfortable talking about it. I will ask him about that rain check tonight

No flier there isn't anything in particular, it's just he is very high self-conscious about his ED (whether psychical or mental, still up in the air), and nothing I say can make him feel better about it. I had hoped over time my continued attention to him, expressing my desire for him, complimenting him would bring him around.

I don't want to make this an issue where I try to force him to go to a doctor, or put boundaries on it. It doesn't seem fair of me to do that if he's having a physical issue.

I think there could be a middle ground between "forcing" him to go to the doctor and not saying anything at all.

Here is the thing... .there is a very important part of his body that may not be working correctly... .(I'm assuming he has not had a full workup).  Sure... .he may not "die" from this... .but it is critical to how he is able to function in a r/s.

If it was a kidney that was failing... .how would you approach him to go get it checked out?

I believe that if you think of it in this way... you may be able to find the appropriate words to approach him with.

Thoughts?

[formflier]

You know it's nature's way of saying you are old and too old to be reproducing, and that's what sex is for"

And that's what sex is for... .


That is a great line to bring up again for a "help me understand... " talk.

On the off chance that he really believes that... .a quick look at a psych or biology textbook can slay that notion quickly.  There are relatively few species that engage in sex for "just pleasure"... .we are one of them.

If he is religious (Christian)... .I can help point to the right place in the Bible.

If he doesn't believe that but continues to say that... .

Time for another "help me understand... ." talk about why he says things he doesn't believe... .

Hang in there... .and thanks again for sharing...

[formflier]

 

Hey Vortex... .!  Hope you had a good Christmas.

Quick comment... .think about who has the power and how that contributes to how you feel in your r/s.

If you are on the couch because of his rejection... .or something along those lines... .who has the power there?

If you are on the couch now because you have chosen to go there... .who has the power there?

I would encourage you to think about how the way you think about these things affects the way you "carry yourself"... .in your r/s.

Hint... .my suggestion is almost always that nons should try to claim power by making choices... .because one of the things I remember being frustrated by was feeling powerless... .

[ColdEthyl]

You know it's nature's way of saying you are old and too old to be reproducing, and that's what sex is for"

And that's what sex is for... .


That is a great line to bring up again for a "help me understand... " talk.

On the off chance that he really believes that... .a quick look at a psych or biology textbook can slay that notion quickly.  There are relatively few species that engage in sex for "just pleasure"... .we are one of them.

If he is religious (Christian)... .I can help point to the right place in the Bible.

If he doesn't believe that but continues to say that... .

Time for another "help me understand... ." talk about why he says things he doesn't believe... .

Hang in there... .and thanks again for sharing...

He's not religious or anything like that... .this is an obvious attempt to justify not going to the doctor. He HATES the doctor's office. Personally, I think part of it is because he's Native and if anyone has had to go to an Indian hospital, you would understand a bit better.

I haven't said nothing, in fact I have asked him to go. I've offered to go with him for support. The biggest line he always starts out with anytime the subject comes up is:

"You don't know what it's like. Your parts always work for sex, no matter what." I concur I cannot understand that, but I do understand if I couldn't have it anymore, I'd be going to the MFing doctor to get blue pills, green pills, orange pills or anything else they wanted to give me.

It's the embarrassment, the age factor, and probably fear of finding out other things might be going on. I would put money on the latter. He's paranoid, as often BPDers are.

[jedimaster]

It's the embarrassment, the age factor, and probably fear of finding out other things might be going on. I would put money on the latter. He's paranoid, as often BPDers are.

I would probably agree it's the latter.  Obviously I can't wrap my mind around his thinking, but I can tell you that when things stopped working for me, embarrassment was suddenly not an issue.  Our family doc is female.  When I went to visit her I put on my best "aw shucks" expression and just told her plainly what was going on.  Whereupon she simply smiled and said, "Well fortunately we have a couple of options to take care of that," and proceeded to explain the differences between Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra, and asked me which one I thought would suit our lifestyle. Wrote the magic words on her prescription pad and wished me luck.  Like most things the reality was much easier than the anticipation.  Of course with BPD their fears are their reality, but just so you know from a guy's perspective the reality is not a big deal. The pill gives you a little light headache when it kicks in, but that's how he knows it's showtime.     

That might be TMI, but I thought it might be helpful to have a perspective from someone who's been there for comparison to his comments.

[Marriagedeathbybpd]

I'd like to echo others thoughts on this... .nothing is worse than the person you love and desire to be intimate with to simply tell you to "go ahead, have sex with my body and get it over with"... .So cold and disconnected, the opposite of the early days sex romps although even then if I reflect it was without eye connection or in the dark due to her poor self image despite a rockin body?  Why didn't we run?  I'll tell you - we thought, hey who says what is "normal" vs abnormal and so we, the givers/pleasers show our patience and love and accept the dysfunctionality of our sexual lives.  I was a confident, good lover before this BPD wife, now I question everything in that realm and that is not attractive to any new lovers, I'm sure... .

[vortex of confusion]

Hey Vortex... .!  Hope you had a good Christmas.

Quick comment... .think about who has the power and how that contributes to how you feel in your r/s.

If you are on the couch because of his rejection... .or something along those lines... .who has the power there?

If you are on the couch now because you have chosen to go there... .who has the power there?

I would encourage you to think about how the way you think about these things affects the way you "carry yourself"... .in your r/s.

Hint... .my suggestion is almost always that nons should try to claim power by making choices... .because one of the things I remember being frustrated by was feeling powerless... .

Thanks FF! I did have a good Christmas. A few hiccups here and there but overall pretty good.

I started out on the couch or with the kids because of the rejection. I started out wanting him to chase me. I wanted him to come get me or ask me to come to bed with him. Actually, I am not even so sure about that now. I think it started out more as me doing all of the parenting and being flat out exhausted and falling asleep with the kids. For years, I did all of the parenting on my own for the most part. In the early years, we both made a big deal out of sleeping in the same bed every night. My leaving our room did not start out as a power struggle. It started out as a by product of having 4 young kids.

I think the problem arose because I would fall asleep with the kids but he wouldn't come and get me. Before he was diagnosed with diabetes, he was up all hours of the night going to the bathroom. I asked him repeatedly to come get me so that I could share a bed with him. All of my requests went unheard and were ignored. There were nights when I would struggle to stay awake so I could go sleep with him and give him some attention. When I would try to go to bed with him, he would be sprawled all over the bed and wouldn't budge so there was no place for me.

Now, I choose the couch as a very conscious decision. I have tried to sleep in the bed with him a couple of times here and there. There is no intimacy. I am talking cuddling, snuggling, non-sexual stuff. He will try to snuggle and cuddle but it seems that it ends up at sex that usually leaves me feeling dirty and used. Or, there were times when I would want to talk or connect on some level but he would just fall asleep. I have tried so many different things to get some kind of intimacy and connection with him. I am a firm believer in the healing power of touch. In all of the literature that I have read over the years, I have seen time and time again how physical touch can be healing. Now, it has reached the point where being touched by him makes me feel a bit repulsed because of all of the damage in the other areas of our lives.

I am angry because now that I have made the choice to not sleep in the room with him, he will come find me and wake me up and will tell me that he is just doing what I have always asked him to do. Huh? He has been off work for the last week and he has been following me around like a puppy dog. He has been sleeping in his recliner or on the floor of the kids' room next to me. What I want more than anything is some space. I can't think straight any more.

[ColdEthyl]

It's the embarrassment, the age factor, and probably fear of finding out other things might be going on. I would put money on the latter. He's paranoid, as often BPDers are.

I would probably agree it's the latter.  Obviously I can't wrap my mind around his thinking, but I can tell you that when things stopped working for me, embarrassment was suddenly not an issue.  Our family doc is female.  When I went to visit her I put on my best "aw shucks" expression and just told her plainly what was going on.  Whereupon she simply smiled and said, "Well fortunately we have a couple of options to take care of that," and proceeded to explain the differences between Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra, and asked me which one I thought would suit our lifestyle. Wrote the magic words on her prescription pad and wished me luck.  Like most things the reality was much easier than the anticipation.  Of course with BPD their fears are their reality, but just so you know from a guy's perspective the reality is not a big deal. The pill gives you a little light headache when it kicks in, but that's how he knows it's showtime.     

That might be TMI, but I thought it might be helpful to have a perspective from someone who's been there for comparison to his comments.

Oh don't worry, it's not TMI for me, as you will see with my posts. It takes a lot to offend me... .lucky for my husband rofl

I think if I just keep nudging over time he will go. I'd really hate to pull the "go or I go" card on this. It feels wrong to use his abandonment issues against him just so I can get a piece.

[formflier]

"go or I go" card on this. 

I agree... that seems a bit much for where you are at now.  But somehow... it would seem he needs a harder "shove"

Especially if he hasn't had a full physical in a while... there could be other issues... .blood pressure could be one that affects ED (I think... I'm not DR... but have heard that)