visitation and cancelling

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So exBPD cancelled her 7 day visit with the kids next week.   It's supervised and I told her there is no changing her mind once cancelled.   The supervisor needs the money and took off her normal job to supervise.   I already had to disappoint the kids telling them she wasn't coming.

Then of course being BPD she changed her mind.   She is super mad and threatening all sorts of stuff.   I have in emails her cancelling, being told there is no going back, and pretty much agreeing.   Her visit is suppose to be in 7 days.    There really isn't anything I can do.

Any legal risks to me in this type of situation?

[suffering_parent]

So exBPD cancelled her 7 day visit with the kids next week.   It's supervised and I told her there is no changing her mind once cancelled.   The supervisor needs the money and took off her normal job to supervise.   I already had to disappoint the kids telling them she wasn't coming.

Then of course being BPD she changed her mind.   She is super mad and threatening all sorts of stuff.   I have in emails her cancelling, being told there is no going back, and pretty much agreeing.   Her visit is suppose to be in 7 days.    There really isn't anything I can do.

Any legal risks to me in this type of situation?

[Nope]

It depends on if there is any verbiage in the parenting plan regarding cancellations that would back her up. Otherwise, if it was me I would hold firm to the boundary because otherwise you'll set a precedent that she can ping pong back and forth about coming. If you stay firm she'll likely never do this again. Still, it wouldn't hurt to check with the lawyer. Where you live might have some default rule you don't know about.

[suffering_parent]

My lawyer moved and I haven't hired a new one yet.   I spoke to the GAL we had and she suggested trying to reschedule a different week.   It would at least make it look like I tried to do the right thing.   The problem is kids are in school and it would really limit her time with them.

Order doesn't state anything about cancellation.   Every visit is like this.   She had six months to plan it and can't tell me if she is coming or not until a week before.   Then it is wishy-washy and affects everyone involved.   I hate BPD btw!

[ForeverDad]

I spoke to the GAL we had and she suggested trying to reschedule a different week.   It would at least make it look like I tried to do the right thing.   The problem is kids are in school and it would really limit her time with them.

Note my emphasis above.  What's wrong with her time being limited?  After all, it's her choice to cancel, not yours.  Ponder this, maybe it's better this way... .

It is what it is.  You can't make her parent just as you can't make her be a good parent.  However, ignoring the school issue, the downside is that you don't want her changes to impact your life negatively.  Do try to keep changes to a minimum so that constant change doesn't become the new 'normal'.

[suffering_parent]

I spoke to a new lawyer.   We kind of agreed postponing it is a bad idea.   It just sets her up to pull these stunts every visit.   He suggested that I attempt fo find someone else and document it.   If I can't the visit will be denied.   He thought it would be very unlikely to be found in contempt.

[livednlearned]

Why do you have to find someone else? What about writing her an email and telling her how to contact the court to get a list of people who can supervise the visit. That if she can find someone at this late notice, the visit can go forward. Maybe let her know that in the event she cancels again, this is the new plan: She cancels, you let the supervisor go, the visit is off. If BPD changes her mind, she must find another court-approved person to supervise.

Are you paying for the supervision?

[suffering_parent]

Why do you have to find someone else? What about writing her an email and telling her how to contact the court to get a list of people who can supervise the visit. That if she can find someone at this late notice, the visit can go forward. Maybe let her know that in the event she cancels again, this is the new plan: She cancels, you let the supervisor go, the visit is off. If BPD changes her mind, she must find another court-approved person to supervise.

Are you paying for the supervision?

Order says I have to find supervisor and pay for it.   She only is coming for a few hours now and my supervisor has agreed to do it.   She is driving 20+ hours to visit for only a few hours!   

Oh and she think the local sheriffs department will supervisor for her.   My supervisor isn't qualified anyways!   I had some chaos a month ago where a deputy let her come during a non-ordered visit and supervised.   That deputy enabled her and created more chaos for me.   I had to file a complaint to the deputies supervisor.   She let her break the court order and enabled a BPD.

[ForeverDad]

I can understand the order stating you choose the supervisor since her choice of supervisors is of course not going to be what meets the requirements for supervision or what would be normally expected, in this case she found a different professional who might have been fine for a short 'peace visit' to collect her things if there was a protection order.  (My ex came to my house a couple time to collect her things and an officer was always present to ensure the protection orders were followed.   It's not intuitive, we would think it ought to be her problem but that takes it out of your management.

[momtara]

Ugh.

You probably have to stick to the boundary.  You were pretty clear with her about how she can't change her mind.

I know this is a tough situation!  She screwed over the supervisor, now will be harassing and guilting you over not seeing the kids, etc.

Maybe you can make up the time on some weekend when you need some alone time, and keep it supervised, of course.  As long as you feel safe doing it.

[Nope]

I feel like right here is a good place to rant a little bit about Boundaries. It's apropos.

SS10 came for Spring Break last year with a set of books from his BPD mom's. At the end of Spring Break all but one of the books went back. One of them was supposedly missing. (SD11 said it never came to our house and that he loaned it to a friend at school and totally forgot about it.) When the BPD mom was told we didn't have the book we offered to replace it and she waved it off saying not to worry about it.

The kids have now lived with us since the summer. A few weeks ago the BPD mom called SS and made a huge deal out of us having "promised to replace the book". Told SS to remind us of our promise because we hadn't done it yet. Which he did. So... .What did we do? We appeased her by going on Amazon and purchasing the book and sending it right to her house.

So a couple of weeks ago she calls SS10 saying she can't find the rest of the books in the series anywhere in the house and demanding to know what he did with them. SS knew darrn well that he never brought them with him again for the summer, but apparently told his mom he had to appease her.

This past weekend we gave her the kids for Christmas break and she demanded the rest of the books back saying they weren't at her place and SS10 said he brought them back to ours. So she is holding DH responsible for purchasing the rest of the books (all of which SS has already read) and sending them to her.

This is what happens when you appease a person with BPD.

[momtara]

I'm laughing about your book story.  Sorry.    Just so much ridiculousness.  This is also a reason we put things in writing. 

[suffering_parent]

Boundaries are just there to tear down for them even when issued by the court.

She is attempting to bring her mother now who is barred from seeing the kids per the court order.   I can already tell this visit is going to have the police involved again.   I am hoping they get sick of her and do something about it.    She is claiming next visit to bring her boyfriend which is also not allowed.   She doesn't care what the order says.   She is sueing the judge for being one sided!

It's just a nightmare every visit.

[livednlearned]

What will/can you do if she brings her mother or boyfriend? It might be worth talking to law enforcement, if you haven't already, to get their input. Let them read the emails or whatever you have to show them what she is planning.

I don't think law enforcement can do much, and they see a whole lot of domestic stuff like this. It's really only the courts that do anything, like give her ultimatums for not following the court order. Which can get expensive -- because you have to file motions for contempt and in my experience it takes a bunch before the court realizes the person has something wrong with them.

I lost count of the motions for contempt I had to file, but I did end up with full custody and no visitation.

[suffering_parent]

Order allows supervisor to deny any third-parties.   I will just have her deny the visit if she can't comply.   She will then call the police.   I made the police put a copy of our order on record for both of us.    They pretty much know whats going on at this point.   So hopefully they tell her where to go.   Then she will want to sue them!

[livednlearned]

Order allows supervisor to deny any third-parties.   I will just have her deny the visit if she can't comply.   She will then call the police.   I made the police put a copy of our order on record for both of us.    They pretty much know whats going on at this point.   So hopefully they tell her where to go.   Then she will want to sue them!

That's great that the supervisor can deny the visit.

My ex threatened to sue the judge too. He filed a complaint against our parenting coordinator, my lawyer, his lawyer, and just recently I found out he is filing a complaint against the therapist my son no longer sees... .

[Nope]

Boundaries are just there to tear down for them even when issued by the court.

Yup. Sounds like an expensive nightmare every single time. It sounds like the only way to get any peace will be to go back to court. Unfortunately, in the meantime you'll have to let the drama with the supervisor play out. She can threaten to do anything, but she will only get consequences from a court for what she actually does. 

I'm laughing about your book story.  Sorry.    Just so much ridiculousness.  This is also a reason we put things in writing. 

Yup. Through all this drama about the books she conveniently forgot that a couple of years ago she promised DH that she would be responsible for expensive hand-held game sytems DH got the kids for Christmas if he sent the kids back with them. When SS10's went missing she simply stated, "I can't be held responsible for these kids not taking care of their toys!"