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Author Topic: Breaking away from my own codependency  (Read 8457 times)
Deeno02
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« Reply #60 on: December 27, 2014, 01:47:00 PM »

I have also learned about the many red flags, so if anyone else is reading up on this topic i would first focus and evaluate your own needs before others when in a relationship with a Cluster B.        

jammo1989, you might be missing the forest for the trees.

How about having an affair with a married women? Bad idea?

How about being in a rebound relationship after a divorce? Bad idea?

#1 The big lesson (I'm not getting on you, BTW, just reaching out) is not about "alpha male" or cluster B, it's about "values/boundaries". This relationship was wrong on day 1.  For example, if monogamy is a value of yours... .you didn't walk the talk.  How can you expect her to have this value now if neither of you had it to start with?

And rebound relationships have a very high mortality rate. Easy to identify.  Easy to avoid.

#2 The BPD or NPD traits often don't show until we are "all in" into the relationship and months down the road -  learning to recognize them and accept them as unresolvable and step away is the secondary level lesson.  Hard to do but a good goal.

#3 Being an "alpha male" if that means when she is breaking up / stepping out you let go, is a third level lesson. Maintain your dignity as best you an in a humiliating situation.



Tell me more Skip! Man, you are so right about rebound. I was a year and change after my divorce. She was just freshly separated, starting divorce process. I fell in. Thought I was ready. Seems we both weren't. Spot on about traits not showing. Devastated my ass. Think I may have knew something was amiss, but ignored it as stress from her ongoing divorce. Man, I messed up
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« Reply #61 on: December 27, 2014, 01:53:13 PM »

Most men are beta. And yes beta means weak.

Good to know   Smiling (click to insert in post)

mistyped that skip. Most men are alpha sorry. If you look up alpha male it takes you to the animal kingdom. Meaning it's mostly talking about the pack leader.
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« Reply #62 on: December 27, 2014, 02:25:50 PM »

I have also learned about the many red flags, so if anyone else is reading up on this topic i would first focus and evaluate your own needs before others when in a relationship with a Cluster B.        

jammo1989, you might be missing the forest for the trees.

How about having an affair with a married women? Bad idea?

How about being in a rebound relationship after a divorce? Bad idea?

#1 The big lesson (I'm not getting on you, BTW, just reaching out) is not about "alpha male" or cluster B, it's about "values/boundaries". This relationship was wrong on day 1.  For example, if monogamy is a value of yours... .you didn't walk the talk.  How can you expect her to have this value now if neither of you had it to start with?

And rebound relationships have a very high mortality rate. Easy to identify.  Easy to avoid.

#2 The BPD or NPD traits often don't show until we are "all in" into the relationship and months down the road -  learning to recognize them and accept them as unresolvable and step away is the secondary level lesson.  Hard to do but a good goal.

#3 Being an "alpha male" if that means when she is breaking up / stepping out you let go, is a third level lesson. Maintain your dignity as best you an in a humiliating situation.

This was extremely informative Skip thank you, could you speak further on this post please? yeah your right literally 2 weeks after she split with her husband she was sexting me, and the first night i met her we had sex on her mothers couch, she was incredibly sexual towards me almost nympho like, but i try to reason with myself at times and say "Her mother was and still is the cause to her behavior.  For example:

The morning after the night before i met my exes mother she would talk to me like she had known me for years telling me all these messed up stories (made me a bit anxious) and my ex was in the shower, I was desperate for the toilet so i as shuffling on the sofa trying to hold it in (as you do) and her mum said to me do you need the toilet? i replied with yeah, and her response was "Go to the toilet and jump in the shower with (my exes name) she wont mind, next thing you know 2nd day ive ever met those 2 i was showering with my ex while her mum was in the front room. My question skip is:

By adapting such behavior or should i say openness to sex by her mother, does this mean that she sees sex or intimacy without attachment, or is she just so use to it that sex to her isn't something she would even see as being a problem with others?

P.s her mum also heard us having sex on the 1st night and in the morning her mum says to my ex laughing "James sounds a right animal in bed you were loving it (exes name name) because i could hear you.

To me that doesnt just show lack of parenting skills, but to me it also shows the signs of a narcissistic mother because no defenses have ever been put up by her to protect her own daughter, hence why she went into care as a child

Thank you all for your responses it really does help alot!        
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« Reply #63 on: December 28, 2014, 08:12:47 AM »

Most men are beta. And yes beta means weak.

Good to know   Smiling (click to insert in post)

mistyped that skip. Most men are alpha sorry. If you look up alpha male it takes you to the animal kingdom. Meaning it's mostly talking about the pack leader.

Humans are more like bonobos than we are Chimps or dogs. 
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« Reply #64 on: December 28, 2014, 10:29:09 AM »

Sounds like a bunch of unhealthy games to me. On both people's part.
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« Reply #65 on: December 28, 2014, 10:57:22 AM »

Sounds like a bunch of unhealthy games to me. On both people's part.

Both peoples part?
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« Reply #66 on: December 28, 2014, 11:08:10 AM »

By adapting such behavior or should i say openness to sex by her mother, does this mean that she sees sex or intimacy without attachment, or is she just so use to it that sex to her isn't something she would even see as being a problem with others?

Mom was looking to be validated and liked. These are very poor and intrusive social skills with both you and her daughter. The decisions to shower and have sexual relations should obviously be a private matter between you and the daughter.  

How mom's raising of her daughter affects her attachment is far more related to how she treated her as a young child.  If her mom has a "BPD" mindset, there are inevitably attachment issues.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/have-your-parents-put-you-risk-psychopathology
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« Reply #67 on: December 28, 2014, 11:28:47 AM »

Sounds like a bunch of unhealthy games to me. On both people's part.

Both peoples part?

Yes.  This is just my outlook... .

What are you trying to prove playing games with a very sick person?

I just walked away once I got it... .and it took me quite a while because of the drastic change in my exBPD's behavior. I was hurt, bewildered and confused, at first.  With the advice of a T, I got away from all the drama and headed for help and support to find out what my part in the unhealthy relationship was.  I did make choices that put me there. I feel I was a victim to a degree... but I still had responsibility for making the choices that put me there.

Why play the mental games to get someone to behave a certain way? What is the point? Aren't you just a part of the problem, then?

I sense a lot of anger here and need to control. I don't see any love, or adult behavior in that equation?

I am just being honest.

That is what I see here.
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« Reply #68 on: December 28, 2014, 11:48:15 AM »

Sounds like a bunch of unhealthy games to me. On both people's part.

Both peoples part?

Yes.  This is just my outlook... .

What are you trying to prove playing games with a very sick person?

I just walked away once I got it... .and it took me quite a while because of the drastic change in my exBPD's behavior. I was hurt, bewildered and confused, at first.  With the advice of a T, I got away from all the drama and headed for help and support to find out what my part in the unhealthy relationship was.  I did make choices that put me there. I feel I was a victim to a degree... but I still had responsibility for making the choices that put me there.

Why play the mental games to get someone to behave a certain way? What is the point? Aren't you just a part of the problem, then?

I sense a lot of anger here and need to control. I don't see any love, or adult behavior in that equation?

I am just being honest.

That is what I see here.

I see where your coming from, at the end of the day they are still human and we should accept them for who they are, but, there comes a times later down the road where you have given so much much emotionally and financially that your views and boundaries need to be met.  For example, working overtime to  cater for them and their needs, and the basic principles of being fair aren't being met.  Expecting you to wash up when you get home, expecting you to cook when you get home.  When you start to strengthen your boundaries they tend to play the role of the victim *why do you never see me as good enough for you?* and like Blimblam very interestingly said reverse it *I don't see myself as good enough for you*yet I do agree and emphasise what your saying about trying to change their behaviour, but when it becomes destructive it is only human nature for a man to try and take control of the situation, where it's based on her lack of contribution within the relationship or her lack of boundaries towards you as their loving partner.
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« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2014, 11:52:57 AM »

but when it becomes destructive it is only human nature for a man to try and take control of the situation, where it's based on her lack of contribution within the relationship or her lack of boundaries towards you as their loving partner.

When my 38 year relationship hit the boiling point I chose to take control of my own choices in the relationship, and that's when I left. I went through a lot of emotions--exhilaration at my freedom, fear of his retribution, anger at all I've lost, resentment that he still has our doggies and lives in our house... .so many things. But at the end of the day it comes down to me choosing to have balance in my own life.

That actually leaves the other person out of the equation as far as our control.
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« Reply #70 on: December 28, 2014, 11:55:29 AM »

Jammo, mine left me because I was blunt. When she lied, I told low life people lie. When she was lazy and wouldn't work, I told her i didn't truck with losers. So she left. Good for her. Now she can be poor, date losers and live off the land for all I care. If you wanna create firm boundaries tell her the straight up truth. Hurt her feelings if need be. No games needed. My dad raised me to confront a problem and fix it with even handed force. I suggest you do the same.
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« Reply #71 on: December 28, 2014, 12:09:29 PM »

Jammo, mine left me because I was blunt. When she lied, I told low life people lie. When she was lazy and wouldn't work, I told her i didn't truck with losers. So she left. Good for her. Now she can be poor, date losers and live off the land for all I care. If you wanna create firm boundaries tell her the straight up truth. Hurt her feelings if need be. No games needed. My dad raised me to confront a problem and fix it with even handed force. I suggest you do the same.

I became blunt with her towards the end as well, because she had 2 children that I cared for immensely, and she told me her youngest was starting school next year, and that she didn't want her kids to grow up.  Next thing I know I was being told I want your baby, not just anybody's baby but yours! She cried and cried longing to be pregnant again, and I turned around in the end and said, what are you going to do for your kids inheritance, you don't work so what about your pension? You say you want the best for your children and to do that you need a long term plan for them.  I was solely looking out for her children's interests, 3 weeks later she's with a new guy, so that baby was only going to be used to trap me either financially or to make sure I was always there when needed, it wasn't based on love that's for sure.
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« Reply #72 on: December 28, 2014, 12:11:56 PM »

Now she can be poor, date losers and live off the land for all I care.



Hurting300
, this line really made me laugh! I do love when we who are in pain can find a startlingly humorous way to see things!
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« Reply #73 on: December 28, 2014, 01:14:40 PM »

Sounds like a bunch of unhealthy games to me. On both people's part.

Both peoples part?

Yes.  This is just my outlook... .

What are you trying to prove playing games with a very sick person?

I just walked away once I got it... .and it took me quite a while because of the drastic change in my exBPD's behavior. I was hurt, bewildered and confused, at first.  With the advice of a T, I got away from all the drama and headed for help and support to find out what my part in the unhealthy relationship was.  I did make choices that put me there. I feel I was a victim to a degree... but I still had responsibility for making the choices that put me there.

Why play the mental games to get someone to behave a certain way? What is the point? Aren't you just a part of the problem, then?

I sense a lot of anger here and need to control. I don't see any love, or adult behavior in that equation?

I am just being honest.

That is what I see here.

I see where your coming from, at the end of the day they are still human and we should accept them for who they are, but, there comes a times later down the road where you have given so much much emotionally and financially that your views and boundaries need to be met.  For example, working overtime to  cater for them and their needs, and the basic principles of being fair aren't being met.  Expecting you to wash up when you get home, expecting you to cook when you get home.  When you start to strengthen your boundaries they tend to play the role of the victim *why do you never see me as good enough for you?* and like Blimblam very interestingly said reverse it *I don't see myself as good enough for you*yet I do agree and emphasise what your saying about trying to change their behaviour, but when it becomes destructive it is only human nature for a man to try and take control of the situation, where it's based on her lack of contribution within the relationship or her lack of boundaries towards you as their loving partner.

Yeah... Jammo... not trying to beat you up... .I did a lot of therapy after the abandonment and the lies... Group therapy too... .(I am no expert... just trying to survive!), and one day... when I got a little better, healed somewhat... .I was sitting there and someone said something,... don't recall what it was... .but in that moment I saw that "I was part of the problem" ... .as silly as that sounds when you own that, just for you (me)... .it really gave me a chance to grow and change... .  All I could do is work on me. A lot of things clicked into place.

Rechently ex years after, still with my replacement that she never cheated on me with (LOL!), she tried to ambush me in a parking lot (it was a planned event on her part i realized just after the encounter) and I just put my head down and went around her. My reflex was to protect me. She hasn't changed (still playing psycho games), I can't change her (I am a surfer ... .I chose in that moment to "duck-dive" that wave)... .that is when you are paddling out and you push the nose of the board down and go under all of the energy and let it go over your head.  You get somewhere.  Engaging with that is just an endless painful circle... .I let it go... I stay away from the poison.  Its healthier for me. Sad... I felt that I loved her so... .but there is nothing healthy there for me.
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« Reply #74 on: December 28, 2014, 01:21:03 PM »

My part of the problem is I didn't know about mental illness. I just saw odd behavior and nailed her on it. That's the only thing I could do. After she left I spent nearly a thousand dollars being tested for personality disorders. I was simply ripped off by a professional sociopathic con artist. I very well could have handled my self better and been more supportive but she couldn't give me the simple pleasure of just being "honest". I'm to valuable for her. And she knows it. God bless her though. I know now thru our investigation she was abused badly and abandoned. Its truly not her fault. I pray she finds peace but that will only come when our God takes her breath away.
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« Reply #75 on: December 28, 2014, 01:35:19 PM »

My part of the problem is I didn't know about mental illness. I just saw odd behavior and nailed her on it. That's the only thing I could do. After she left I spent nearly a thousand dollars being tested for personality disorders. I was simply ripped off by a professional sociopathic con artist. I very well could have handled my self better and been more supportive but she couldn't give me the simple pleasure of just being "honest". I'm to valuable for her. And she knows it. God bless her though. I know now thru our investigation she was abused badly and abandoned. Its truly not her fault. I pray she finds peace but that will only come when our God takes her breath away.

Hurting this may or may not be any help to you but, from my own experience its seems that we were kind of in the same boat.  I can assure you im not as wealthy as you but when comparing ourselves with our exes we can clearly see that they had no job, on benefits, no education and in my case not even passed her theory test.  The point id like to address here is this.  My ex tried to let me in at times, but would never let me see inside her for long enough to fully understand where the problem lied.  For example:

I just want somebody to understand me me, i dont want your money i just want to be accepted for who i am

But everytime i tried to understand her cruel nature would surface, she even said *good like in finding the next girl because one day you will realise its not all about money James, so dont come crying to me if they do because ill just say i told you so*

But... .When i stopped paying for everything and asked her to go halfs on everything thats when she started throwing temper tantrums and pushing me away, so the point here is, actions speak louder than words, so in my opinions, her words were merely a way to make her look and feel like the victim.   
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« Reply #76 on: December 28, 2014, 01:43:44 PM »

I would love for you to understand, Jammo, that because I don't have a job and I didn't finish college that you are not better than me. Likely I understand things that you do not because of my life experience. I spent decades caring for my family and my uBPDh and those were not worthless years. Please reconsider your need to feel "superior." It's not a healthy one.
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« Reply #77 on: December 28, 2014, 01:48:56 PM »

Yeah man I know what you mean, the 18 months we were together she only cooked for me twice and bought me one meal from McDonald's. Poor excuse for a human. I am wealthy now, I haven't always been. She has no idea I've hit it big. As far as she knows I still work at the mill. But before she left I clearly told her it was about to happen that all I needed was help. Well it did happen. So she screwed herself over Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). Money is no issue with these people. Her ex killed himself after she left him. She admitted she tortured him in the end. His family is worth millions. You just can't make them happy. She and her family act rich but they live in ruins Laugh out loud (click to insert in post). I feel for you man i do. You can and will do better. My life has been so much better. I do miss her and waft my child back and I will. But the progress I've made... .I'd be poor still if she was here. And unhappy. She and your ex can't be trusted.
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« Reply #78 on: December 28, 2014, 01:50:36 PM »

I would love for you to understand, Jammo, that because I don't have a job and I didn't finish college that you are not better than me. Likely I understand things that you do not because of my life experience. I spent decades caring for my family and my uBPDh and those were not worthless years. Please reconsider your need to feel "superior." It's not a healthy one.

jammo, does not come across to me that way. He has been deeply hurt. He needs to feel this way to work thru it. He certainly is better than his ex.
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« Reply #79 on: December 28, 2014, 02:01:50 PM »

I would love for you to understand, Jammo, that because I don't have a job and I didn't finish college that you are not better than me. Likely I understand things that you do not because of my life experience. I spent decades caring for my family and my uBPDh and those were not worthless years. Please reconsider your need to feel "superior." It's not a healthy one.

I don't think I am superior to anyone far from it, that's not how I'm trying to come across here at all, im trying to explain that, I just like others gave so much and got nothing back apart from a cruel discard and an instant replacement.  If someone loved me and stood by me then money would mean nothing because it actually doesn't, but when you put so much into something with with no regards or appreciation from your partner that's when you become resentful.  I, just like hurting are not implying we are superior, all we are saying here is if the person we were with didn't appeciate what we did for them then they can live the less fortunate life before us.  It's like a woman trapping me via pregnancy a woman has 4 children and has never worked a day in her life she is in it for the financial support, why like others would she deserve our respect knowing she's now living off others while at the same time having no regards for others?

I've been in relationships where I bent over backwards and it was appreciated I got my ex Polish gf 78% on her dissertation, she never had much, but she was a loyal person who I still till this day would help financially and emotionally if she needed me.  Where as, with the people that don't appreciate what you do and expect it, they need to be put in their place.  So no, this isn't about superiority, it's about not being taken for a mug, I'm sure you are a very caring Individual and with that in mind no one would or should look down on you.  I really hope you understand what me and hurting are trying to explain here.  I'm not superior by any sense of the word, Hurting owns his own business, but he's not acting superior to me or others on this forum, but if people took his good will for granted like use, use, use then he just I is going to be very resentful.
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« Reply #80 on: December 28, 2014, 02:11:31 PM »

Although it is good to work through the hurt from our pwBPD, I think it diverts us from the original topic of codependency.  When we constantly shift the blame on the pwBPD, isn't that the same as us painting the disordered person black?
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« Reply #81 on: December 28, 2014, 02:15:35 PM »

I don't think I am superior to anyone far from it, that's not how I'm trying to come across here at all, im trying to explain that, I just like others gave so much and got nothing back apart from a cruel discard and an instant replacement.  but if people took his good will for granted like use, use, use then he just I is going to be very resentful.

Oh heck yes I've been resentful too, trust me. My uBPDh lives in our house and has our doggies that I've raised since they were puppies. There's reason to be resentful for a time, I understand. I don't mean either of  you is being superior to anyone here in the community, I simply meant it hurts our own souls in the long run to take that attitude about our ex.

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« Reply #82 on: December 28, 2014, 02:16:59 PM »

I would love for you to understand, Jammo, that because I don't have a job and I didn't finish college that you are not better than me. Likely I understand things that you do not because of my life experience. I spent decades caring for my family and my uBPDh and those were not worthless years. Please reconsider your need to feel "superior." It's not a healthy one.

jammo, does not come across to me that way. He has been deeply hurt. He needs to feel this way to work thru it. He certainly is better than his ex.

Thank you for your support hurting, here's a great example why I look down on my ex, but not others:

I like in the UK, the last weekend we ever spent together was in Cardiff, I spent £300 in a day and I had nothing to show for it, because it was all spent on her and the kids.  She was so seductive and sexual throughout she said to me I need a new dildo because we broke my last one remember? She goes into Anne Summers so open and forward * I'm looking for a dildo to play with for when the fellas not around, I need a sturdy one although the glass ones look nice* she then turns to me baby it's £50 and I said ok if you really want it we will go halves.  She then paid for it and said * because I payed the full amount can you buy (her sons name) the Sky landers he wanted please?* so I then spent £42 on Sky landers, we go home she plays with her new toy being all seductive making me watch and not allowed to touch (seducing me) the day after I get told i have to leave early because she wants to spend time with the kids and dumps me over the phone the following day.

Now do you see why I look down on her poor, pathetic life?

If someone loved or cared for me in a healthy, mature way money wouldn't even come I to this, I remember dating my ex Polish gf and there were times where I leant her money because she was struggling with bills, she was in University and working in Morrisions on minimum wage trying to keep her self a float, and I helped her and still do, and I don't look down on her what so ever she was a great gf.  But, my ex who didn't appreciate it I will look down at and laugh at her lack of money in the bank, education and so forth, why? Because she doesn't deserve my good will.
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« Reply #83 on: December 28, 2014, 02:25:39 PM »

But, my ex who didn't appreciate it I will look down at and laugh at her lack of money in the bank, education and so forth, why? Because she doesn't deserve my good will.

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." - Elie Wiesel
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jammo1989
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« Reply #84 on: December 28, 2014, 02:30:33 PM »

But, my ex who didn't appreciate it I will look down at and laugh at her lack of money in the bank, education and so forth, why? Because she doesn't deserve my good will.

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference." - Elie Wiesel

Dude I've always said that, but here's why it has always confused me, if my ex ex told me to never contact her again, blocks me and moves on that's not in difference that's hate, and with hate meant love must have been replaced, because people who are indifferent don't make the effort to block and push others a way as much as they possibly can, or am I wrong?
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Elpis
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WWW
« Reply #85 on: December 28, 2014, 02:31:49 PM »

This is a great article about codependency, and even mentions me, the "codependent enabler." Go me.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/codependency-codependent-relationships

And from the article: Symptoms of Codependency

Daniel Harkness, Ph.D., LCSW, professor at Boise State University says that some of the most commonly cited symptoms of codependency are:

intense and unstable interpersonal relationships,

inability to tolerate being alone, accompanied by frantic efforts to avoid being alone,

chronic feelings of boredom and emptiness,

subordinating one's own needs to those of the person with whom one is involved,

overwhelming desire for acceptance and affection,

external referencing,

dishonesty and denial, and

low self-worth.


For me, I relate to the "subordinating one's own needs" and "overwhelming desire for acceptance and affection" and "low self worth." Those things allowed me to remain trapped in an unhealthy situation.

So in that scenario, where do you see your codependent behavior?
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EaglesJuju
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« Reply #86 on: December 28, 2014, 02:37:50 PM »

Dude I've always said that, but here's why it has always confused me, if my ex ex told me to never contact her again, blocks me and moves on that's not in difference that's hate, and with hate meant love must have been replaced, because people who are indifferent don't make the effort to block and push others a way as much as they possibly can, or am I wrong?

I do not believe that the maladaptive behaviors of a disordered person has anything to do with love and hate.  Regardless of the reasons why they do it, it has nothing to do with us. 
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"In order to take control of our lives and accomplish something of lasting value, sooner or later we need to Believe. We simply need to believe in the power that is within us, and use it." -Benjamin Hoff
TheDude
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« Reply #87 on: December 28, 2014, 02:40:37 PM »

Dude I've always said that, but here's why it has always confused me, if my ex ex told me to never contact her again, blocks me and moves on that's not in difference that's hate, and with hate meant love must have been replaced, because people who are indifferent don't make the effort to block and push others a way as much as they possibly can, or am I wrong?

You're deflecting the context away from yourself. Your statement was about your judgement and criticism (anger and hate) toward your ex. I get that - we've all been there, but the focus on the actions and emotions of others distracts from the focus on ourselves. Know what I'm getting at? With acceptance and a re-direct of focus comes indifference.
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hurting300
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« Reply #88 on: December 28, 2014, 02:47:42 PM »

Just chalk it up to a life lesson. That's all we can do.
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In the eye for an eye game, he who cares least, wins. I, for one. am never stepping into the ring with someone who is impulsive and doesn't think of the downstream consequences.
Infared
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« Reply #89 on: December 28, 2014, 02:53:08 PM »

My part of the problem is I didn't know about mental illness. I just saw odd behavior and nailed her on it. That's the only thing I could do. After she left I spent nearly a thousand dollars being tested for personality disorders. I was simply ripped off by a professional sociopathic con artist. I very well could have handled my self better and been more supportive but she couldn't give me the simple pleasure of just being "honest". I'm to valuable for her. And she knows it. God bless her though. I know now thru our investigation she was abused badly and abandoned. Its truly not her fault. I pray she finds peace but that will only come when our God takes her breath away.

Yeah... .I had no clue that she was ill... .she was mirroring me and I didn't see it until long after either... .but boy... .does it all fall in place with her childhood emotional damage, only child... .Then her history before me and now where she is... and how she has acted in public toward me  just says it all.

She got together with my replacement through playing victim,  lies and deceit and a LOT of alcohol consumption.  Not exactly the makings for a good relationship.  ... .but I have learned a LOT and I am glad that all the pain eventually turned into something positive.

I am glad that this site is here to help us all understand things more.
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