uBPD mom picking kids activities again without father input

[highroadstepmom]

Since the split with his ex, my fiancé's uBPD ex has unilaterally signed his two children up for extra curricular activities.

While the custody agreement has language that says 'if one parent proposes, the other has 7 days to decline' - WHO gets to pick activities for the children always ends up being their mom.

My fiancé wants the children to experience a broad spectrum of sports, arts, civic clubs - and not be overbooked.

Scenario:

1. Mother announces she plans to sign children up for activity X. If my fiancé says no, the mother reads the (MFW) communication to the children and tells them 'daddy won't let you do activity'.

2. If my fiancé says 'well, you suggested soccer, I'd like them to try lacrosse" mother says "fine, let them do both". My finance does not think a 7 and 8 year old should be in extra curricular activities 5 and 6 days a week... .and so the children end up doing the activity mother proposed.

Damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

My fiancé won't put the children in the middle - won't 'lobby' the children to pick 'his' activity - but simply wants them to experience a spectrum of extra curricular activities and doesn't want them 'over-booked' time-wise.

So, here we are again, with 36 hours left to respond to the latest "Son 1 wants to pay basketball, here are dates, times, cc mother attorney".

what if replied,

"Since you have picked basketball activity for January through mid-March, I will work with the children to select their extra curricular activity from mid-march until the end of the school year."

He has send detailed suggested activity proposals to attorney - mother picks one, father picks one activity in fall... .etc. rejected outright by the boys' mother and attorney. They have been sent to co-parenting counseling by judge to help figure it out - epic fail.

For my fiancé's part - he could get out ahead of it more and make a suggestion earlier - thus avoiding being in the position of responding.  Still, I believe the mother would respond to this: "what the children want is X not what you suggested."

Suggestions?

thank you.

[DreamGirl]

Unilateral decision making can be really annoying ---- especially when you're expected to pay for half.  

Good news is that once they're older -- you'll have to put up with a couple of kiddos who will want to do what they want to do and don't really care how any parent feels about it anyways.

What activities is she picking that you don't agree with?

Is there a well laid out plan that you could come up with? Even come up with choices?

i.e.

Something along the lines of:

Dear Ex,

It's great that 7 and 8 year old want to participate in basketball.

Since they are doing basketball this Winter, how about they participate in Lacrosse this Spring?

I also read about (insert activity), maybe they would want to do that instead? Any thoughts?

---HSM Husband


I also have to add that my husband used sports activities as a way to keep up on the father-daughter relationship during the week (he was an every other weekend dad before it was 50/50).

Even became a coach. His perspective was that he didn't care what they did as long as he was able to participate. He actually did 100% of the transportation to sweeten the deal.

I understand that 5-6 nights is too much. There are also some activities that are once a month (like art classes) or every other week (like say guitar lessons) or even on your own schedule (like volunteering at a dog shelter). Any way that you can just unilaterally make a decision about an activity that isn't a weekly activity that can be scheduled only on your time?

Just some thoughts... .

~DG

[Ripped Heart]

Highroadstepmom, your post really resonates with me and I do understand your frustrations around this.

Have you guys figured out what ulterior motive is behind his exes actions? Is she doing this to cause trouble, after extra money or to limit your fiances time with the children?

My exgf (childrens mother) isn't PD but is quite emotionally unstable. I've been fighting for access to my children for a while now and she has played and delayed as much as possible. The latest one is to do what was going on below.

Monday - Swimming Lessons

Tuesday - Music Lessons

Wednesday - Martial Arts

Thursday - Brownies AND Cheerleading

Friday - Private Dance Lessons

Saturday - Tap and Ballet Lessons

It was done by her as way to stop me from being able to spend time with my children and put them under tremendous strain (D10 and D4) did all of those every week. The only say I had in the matter was the Private Dance Lessons as I paid for those and this was based around a conversation I had with D10 who did really want to do them.

I was then hit with requests for financing all the other lessons and also financing the equipment needed to though had no say in the matter. Within a month, D10 gave up Brownies, martial arts, music lessons and the private dance lessons. When I asked her if it was because she lost interest, she told me it was because she was too tired by the end of the week and wanted a bit of time for relaxing and playing with friends.

In my situation, I still have phone contact with my children (goes to court on 20th Jan and is an open and shut case) so I would speak to D10 directly about her involvement and whether it was something she actually wanted to do. To be honest, I think she wanted to do all of the above, just not all at once. In my situation I don't ask leading questions, just say something along the lines of "I hear you are interested in doing x this year" and then let them direct the conversation. There are times D10 will say "Yes, but I would much prefer to do y" Given the age of your fiances children though, that might be a bit more difficult but I've always been taught that children have the right to their own voice too.

I definitely think the proposal to split the decisions is perhaps the wisest choice and allows for interaction from your fiance on an equal footing. I hope this does get picked up by co-parenting judge and resolved quickly for you. Fiance has every right in these decisions too.

[scraps66]

One thing I've done, don't pay.  If you're not mutually included in the decision making, don't pay.  It may not end up being that much money, but don't allow the precedent to be set without installing a boundary of some kind. 

I have this going on too and my ex will fabricate scenarios where I look like the bad guy.  This has been even in cases where I'm trying to get our S10 counseling, she has unilaterally and conveniently arranged activities to conflict with the counseling.

[livednlearned]

Ugh. The activities thing is tough because it gets all tangled up with custody.

The mom might be motivated by some narcissism. My ex wanted S13 to do all sorts of things, sort of a mini-me kind of thing. Except S13 is nothing like his dad, so that never ended well.

I would shift the heart of the conversation right to the kids. At their age, they can have a conversation about what they want to do. They might not be old enough to know what they want, but they can handle the conversation.

For example, "Your mom wants to sign you up for this and this and this. What are your thoughts?"

If they say they want to do those things, "I want you to experience a lot of different activities. But this is a lot for a kid your age to do. There isn't a lot of time to play and be with friends, and just relax. My proposal is that you to pick the one you want the most. That's the one I will pay for. You and your mom can figure out the rest."

If the schedule is the problem, meaning mom is picking things that interfere with dad's time, that's a different conversation. "I want you to do these things, but I also want to spend time with just us. There might be some days when you and I will go do our own thing. Your mom might not like that, but it's our scheduled time and I'm ok with you signing up for this stuff, and mom paying, but when there is something we want to do, that has to be ok."

Something like that.

A book that isn't necessarily designed to help you think through this kind of stuff, but did anyway, is Parenting with Love and Logic. So much of the parenting drama with BPD parents defies logic. I found that the ninja move that helped me most was presenting things to my son in a logical way. "This is the situation. This is what you expressed as your want/need. This is a possible outcome. This is how that outcome impacts me. If outcome A happens, this is the consequence that makes most sense. Are you good with this plan?"

[highroadstepmom]

Thank you everyone. 

I think the mother is a busy working mom and wants to get the schedule locked down- like many. No issue with this.  We also suspect she wants to control the schedule, ensuring that she gets to see children during my fiancé's custodial time (it's a 50/50/custody).

It's not that basketball is the issue. It's the exclusion of my fiancé in the decision making that has been a challenge - it's the informing rather than collaborating. She has accused him of trying to hurt the children by not letting them do an activity. She has also said 'let's meet in person to decide'... .well... .one of the last in-person meetings (in the co-parenting counseling) resulted in her screaming 'ef off!' and storming out... .in front of the counselor.  she has no impulse control when it comes to him so will scream at him in public places, etc. so that won't work.

We ended up sending a reply that offered if basketball chosen by mom and children, then dad will work with children to pick a later spring activity reminding her that father has been suggesting an activity schedule for several years and if she didn't agree with his suggested schedule, asking for her input so that they could develop an activities schedule that worked for everyone.  It was probably too long but it was friendly in tone and collaborative.

I haven't seen a mushroom cloud rise from the other side of town yet so we shall see.

always appreciate hearing everyone's input and knowing that we're not in this alone.