She broke up to prevent herself from causing me pain?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am having a difficult time with this one: part of the theory is that a BPD leaves in part because they feel themselves to be inferior or recognize that they are causing non's pain so they leave to do them a favor? Any thoughts on this?

[JRT]

I am having a difficult time with this one: part of the theory is that a BPD leaves in part because they feel themselves to be inferior or recognize that they are causing non's pain so they leave to do them a favor? Any thoughts on this?

[EaglesJuju]

I have heard this before and my therapist has talked about this theory as well.  I am curious, if this was hypothetically the case, would the action of leaving be easier to cope with?  Also, if this could hypothetically be true, why would you have a hard time believing it?

[eyvindr]

Well, if they leave out of a feeling of inferiority, it could be related to the fear of abandonment that is so much at the root of BPD. They would leave in order to preempt being left.

In terms of someone with BPD leaving a partner as a favor, it could be just that. Or, maybe if they feel that they are causing their partner pain, this makes them feel badly (ie, causes them to feel shame). Feelings of shame could well trigger a need to stop those feelings, so leaving could be one tactic -- remove the source of the shame and remove the associated bad feelings. Interestingly, if that's how it works, in the end it's still about doing what they need to make themselves feel better, not their partner.

But who knows. It's one wacky illness.

[JRT]

I have heard this before and my therapist has talked about this theory as well.  I am curious, if this was hypothetically the case, would the action of leaving be easier to cope with?  Also, if this could hypothetically be true, why would you have a hard time believing it?

Not sure If I understand. Do you mean would my exBPD would find it easier to cope with or I would find it easier to cope with? If it were the case, then I would think that it would be an easy sell to convince them that I LOVED them, would never abandon them and accepted them as they were (at least in a perfect world, especially if it were true). In my situation, mine disappeared. She blocked all communication with me and called the cops when I called her from a unblocked phone. Taking this a step further, she blocked me on social media, unfriended all of my friends and successfully goaded her family and friends to do the same (all VERY much grown adults, I can only imagine what the distortion campaign was all about in order to compel them to do so). It has been 3.5 months... .this doesn't sound like a person that was out to do me any favors. Why the anger? Why the willingness to legally besmirch me (although I think that was a half hearted attempt)?

Then again, just how would someone who was wishing to do me a favor in this way behave I wonder?

[JRT]

Well, if they leave out of a feeling of inferiority, it could be related to the fear of abandonment that is so much at the root of BPD. They would leave in order to preempt being left.

In terms of someone with BPD leaving a partner as a favor, it could be just that. Or, maybe if they feel that they are causing their partner pain, this makes them feel badly (ie, causes them to feel shame). Feelings of shame could well trigger a need to stop those feelings, so leaving could be one tactic -- remove the source of the shame and remove the associated bad feelings. Interestingly, if that's how it works, in the end it's still about doing what they need to make themselves feel better, not their partner.

But who knows. It's one wacky illness.

It sure is wacky... .we NEVER had the sturm and drang that I read about all over this board... .it was very placid and I was very happy and told her that repeatedly... .but I DID see that she internalized even things that she should have been outwardly joyful about - I knew that this was a ticking time bomb waiting to explode... .a day or two before she disappeared,  I caught her surfing the web and she REALLY didn't want me to see what it was... .coulda been a dating site, or a link to a moving company - whatever. But she said something in regard to me saying things to and about her that made her feel badly about herself (which was HUGE news to me as I never gave her that kind of grief)... .I don't know if this was a real sentiment or just a convenient lie to cover up something more embarrassing that she was surfing.

Either way, if she left with protecting me, ESPECIALLY since the times were good, I would not think that it would be associated with the level of anger and communication cutoff that she has enacted. Wouldn't it?

[EaglesJuju]

Do you mean would my exBPD would find it easier to cope with or I would find it easier to cope with? I was meaning would you find it easier to cope with, if she hypothetically left to "protect" you.  Then again a pwBPD could say they are doing it to "protect" you, as a coping mechanism.

It has been 3.5 months... .this doesn't sound like a person that was out to do me any favors. Why the anger? Why the willingness to legally besmirch me (although I think that was a half hearted attempt)?

No it does not sound like that. Remember, the behavior of pwBPD seems like a never ending contradiction. 

The toughest thing to actually realize and accept is none of their behavior has nothing to do with you. PwBPD tend to not take responsibility for their own behavior. They will use coping mechanisms such as, dissociative splitting to avoid the association of their own negative feelings. This is most likely where the anger stems from. 

Then again, just how would someone who was wishing to do me a favor in this way behave I wonder?

I would assume that they would say something like, "I keep hurting you, I do not want to hurt you anymore, you deserve better, you should move on."

[JRT]

The toughest thing to actually realize and accept is none of their behavior has nothing to do with you. PwBPD tend to not take responsibility for their own behavior. They will use coping mechanisms such as, dissociative splitting to avoid the association of their own negative feelings. This is most likely where the anger stems from. 

Can you supply me with an example of this so I can better understand?

[SlyQQ]

in my expierience they often on various levels enjoy inflicting pain on there ex s to punish them for the break up what they say is only to make them feel good about it

[JRT]

in my expierience they often on various levels enjoy inflicting pain

on there ex s to punish them for the break up what they say is

only to make them feel good about it

But she is the one that broke up with me!

[SlyQQ]

She still blames you for not living up to her expectations its how they think the break up was your fault in her eyes

[JRT]

but she never complained about me ever! In fact, she went on about how her friends, family and co workers thought I was the bomb! There was not tumult in our relationship!

[SlyQQ]

Yes well she started lying somewhere along the line BPD blame others for there actions they will semi forget about you ( though they like to keep you in reserve just in case something goes wrong thats why they try to keep break up low key so it doesnt disrupt the new path or bf ) You are really not part of the picture just a convienience to be managed with the least fuss you have been effectivelybeen devalued to zero but be careful if you cross her somehow at this stage and she paints yoy black things might get REALLY nasty sorry unless of course she is not BPD?

[JRT]

I wonder about that... .the way that she broke up is very much BPD as well as some other elements... .but there was no acting out like most of the other accounts that I read about here... .although I saw problems that I attributed to her upbringing and psychology, I sometimes question if she is BPD... .outside of checking against the characteristics, is there a way of knowing in my situation; after the fact?

[EaglesJuju]

The toughest thing to actually realize and accept is none of their behavior has nothing to do with you. PwBPD tend to not take responsibility for their own behavior. They will use coping mechanisms such as, dissociative splitting to avoid the association of their own negative feelings. This is most likely where the anger stems from. 

Can you supply me with an example of this so I can better understand?

PwBPD tend to have a lot of internalized feelings of anger and hostility. You could do everything "right" or the cater to their every whim, but the way they view things it may come across as negative. PwBPD are highly emotionally sensitive, so something you say could be perceived as threatening or punitive, even though you had no intention on saying anything that was in that manner. 

PwBPD can project their internalized feelings towards their partner.  For example, my pwBPD has chronic feelings of self loathing.  He associates many things I say as "negative." When I bring up something,  that may upset/bother me, he immediately thinks that I am criticizing him. It can be something as innocuous as asking him to help out with preparing dinner. He tends to view it as he is lazy, worthless, and a terrible person for not helping.  It is like anything I say that is upsetting or negative, reinforces his view as a terrible person.  When this happens, he will lash out and then storm off. It is very child-like.       

[JRT]

This kind of behavior reminds me of her son... .however, she never really said anything relating to being upset about what I would say or do. THOUGH, it was clear that things were bothering her: she had sleeping problems (THIS she blamed on me on occasion), had odd health issues, had mild anxiety attacks, was lost in her own thoughts at inappropriate times, almost like she was day dreaming during a situation where she should have been mentally engaged, etc... .I wonder if she simply just conditioned herself to not outwardly react?

[EaglesJuju]

This kind of behavior reminds me of her son... .however, she never really said anything relating to being upset about what I would say or do. THOUGH, it was clear that things were bothering her: she had sleeping problems (THIS she blamed on me on occasion), had odd health issues, had mild anxiety attacks, was lost in her own thoughts at inappropriate times, almost like she was day dreaming during a situation where she should have been mentally engaged, etc... .I wonder if she simply just conditioned herself to not outwardly react?

Shutting down/freezing is really common for pwBPD. It can become a conditioned response learned during childhood. One of the theories to the etiology of BPD, partially stems from being reared in an invalidating environment. The caretaker contributes to the invalidating environment, through invalidation of the child's emotions, inadequately coaches the child's emotions (does not teach the child how to regulate emotions), negative reinforcement of emotional expression, and ineffective parenting.

During this process of shutting down/freezing, many times a pwBPD wants you to be telepathic, to almost know exactly what they are thinking/want. As a result, communication gets broken down. Seriously frustrating stuff.

[eyvindr]

My experiences with my ex support what Eagles is saying here -- especially the bit that I bolded --

Shutting down/freezing is really common for pwBPD. It can become a conditioned response learned during childhood. One of the theories to the etiology of BPD, partially stems from being reared in an invalidating environment. The caretaker contributes to the invalidating environment, through invalidation of the child's emotions, inadequately coaches the child's emotions (does not teach the child how to regulate emotions), negative reinforcement of emotional expression, and ineffective parenting.

During this process of shutting down/freezing, many times a pwBPD wants you to be telepathic, to almost know exactly what they are thinking/want. As a result, communication gets broken down. Seriously frustrating stuff.

And when I'd try to explain that I'm not a mindreader, I'd get the tired lecture about how it's not mindreading, anyone in a r-ship would understand, she just needed to remember that, compared to other people, including everyone she'd ever dated before, I was just different and she couldn't expect me to understand things that are completely obvious to most people. She actually told me once or twice that it was a simple matter of her lowering her expectations for the support she would receive from me -- as if that was an acceptable resolution!

This was interesting to me, too, and I'll tell you why... .

No it does not sound like that. Remember, the behavior of pwBPD seems like a never ending contradiction.  

The toughest thing to actually realize and accept is none of their behavior has nothing to do with you. PwBPD tend to not take responsibility for their own behavior. They will use coping mechanisms such as, dissociative splitting to avoid the association of their own negative feelings. This is most likely where the anger stems from.

In the first year of our r-ship, when we began to keep running into the same emotional insecurity issues enough to make me start to understand that there was possibly something clinical going on, I called her on her behavior once -- it was in an email, and I was trying to use humor to help get through the argument which, as always, was about something so insignificant that I can't even remember it. Anyway, I sent her an email, saying, "heads up! -- so-and-so is back, and she's trying to screw up your r-ship. Thought you should know." In response, she shared that, while she was college, she'd been engaged in some therapy, and that she'd been DX'd with dissociative identity disorder.

Explained a lot, at the time. Even moreso, her response when I asked her why she had never filled me in on this, given the recurring issues we were having as a couple? She told me she thought it was under control, and it hadn't affected her life for years. Because sometimes PDs just go away on their own, I guess.

Looking back, I wonder if she actually had at some point been DXd as showing some symptoms of BPD, but then true to form, she researched it obsessively, recognized the negative stigma placed on it, and then used as many other ailments as could be applied as "cover-ups" -- out of fear of being deserted once people knew. Instead of trying to WORK on her issues.

I concur -- seriously frustrating stuff.

[JRT]

You really nailed something Eagles that I have not really explored... .her environment growing up was horrible... .she was tormented by an older sibling while Dad was a raging alcoholic who blamed the children and mother (pregnant at 15 with her older sister) the co dependent went along for the ride... .It was that environment that created her and her fathers actions certainly were something that she incorporated into the norm... .to make matters worse, they never spent more than one school year in the same home/neighborhood so she was nevver able to grow friendships AND was socially cast out when she did land somewhere... .it was brutal for her for certain.

The 'telepathy' really resonated with me since it was something that she actually expected from me and was quite clear about it more than once. I chalked it up to the similar male/female exchange similar to, 'that's the problem, you DON'T know' sort of thing. I also found her during the few times that we did argue where she would be upset about something where she would do my thinking/logic for me. 'Since you are this, then you think this,... .and because of that, you will do this'. But it should come as no surprise for someone that breaks up because she is convinced that I was going to abandon her. Sigh... .

[JRT]

My experiences with my ex support what Eagles is saying here -- especially the bit that I bolded --

Shutting down/freezing is really common for pwBPD. It can become a conditioned response learned during childhood. One of the theories to the etiology of BPD, partially stems from being reared in an invalidating environment. The caretaker contributes to the invalidating environment, through invalidation of the child's emotions, inadequately coaches the child's emotions (does not teach the child how to regulate emotions), negative reinforcement of emotional expression, and ineffective parenting.

During this process of shutting down/freezing, many times a pwBPD wants you to be telepathic, to almost know exactly what they are thinking/want. As a result, communication gets broken down. Seriously frustrating stuff.

And when I'd try to explain that I'm not a mindreader, I'd get the tired lecture about how it's not mindreading, anyone in a r-ship would understand, she just needed to remember that, compared to other people, including everyone she'd ever dated before, I was just different and she couldn't expect me to understand things that are completely obvious to most people. She actually told me once or twice that it was a simple matter of her lowering her expectations for the support she would receive from me -- as if that was an acceptable resolution!

This was interesting to me, too, and I'll tell you why... .

No it does not sound like that. Remember, the behavior of pwBPD seems like a never ending contradiction.  

The toughest thing to actually realize and accept is none of their behavior has nothing to do with you. PwBPD tend to not take responsibility for their own behavior. They will use coping mechanisms such as, dissociative splitting to avoid the association of their own negative feelings. This is most likely where the anger stems from.

In the first year of our r-ship, when we began to keep running into the same emotional insecurity issues enough to make me start to understand that there was possibly something clinical going on, I called her on her behavior once -- it was in an email, and I was trying to use humor to help get through the argument which, as always, was about something so insignificant that I can't even remember it. Anyway, I sent her an email, saying, "heads up! -- so-and-so is back, and she's trying to screw up your r-ship. Thought you should know." In response, she shared that, while she was college, she'd been engaged in some therapy, and that she'd been DX'd with dissociative identity disorder.

Explained a lot, at the time. Even moreso, her response when I asked her why she had never filled me in on this, given the recurring issues we were having as a couple? She told me she thought it was under control, and it hadn't affected her life for years. Because sometimes PDs just go away on their own, I guess.

Looking back, I wonder if she actually had at some point been DXd as showing some symptoms of BPD, but then true to form, she researched it obsessively, recognized the negative stigma placed on it, and then used as many other ailments as could be applied as "cover-ups" -- out of fear of being deserted once people knew. Instead of trying to WORK on her issues.

I concur -- seriously frustrating stuff.

So what happened with your r/s? Are you still with her?

[Panda39]

She broke up to prevent herself from causing me pain?

How about projection... .she broke up with you to prevent you from causing her pain?

[JRT]

okay... .but how would I be causing her pain? There were zero outward signs of it. Absolutely nothing that she evver expressed or even hinted to me.

[Tim300]

okay... .but how would I be causing her pain? There were zero outward signs of it. Absolutely nothing that she evver expressed or even hinted to me.

I think I was driving my pwBPD crazy because her fears of me abandoning her just grew more and more intense.  So she was in a a lot of pain, confusion, and frustration.  For example, if I took 10 minutes going to the store when she thought it would only take 5, she might be going through pain by thinking I might want to leave her.  She wouldn't tell me "I'm in pain" but she might say something like "Who were you talking to in the store? Etc."  Perhaps your ex began to experience abandonment anxiety/pain like this?   

[JRT]

If she did, she never expressed them... .

I think that her triggers were as follow

- she moved into my house after being single for years (stress)

- an argument regarding financing a new car (stress, loss of control)

- her 18 year old son moved out (trigger, abandonment)

- I went out of town on a business trip (trigger, abandonment)

Its a shame: i was fully prepared to listen and take her problems seriously.

[eyvindr]

JRT --

This behavior was very common in my r-ship as well during arguments:

I also found her during the few times that we did argue where she would be upset about something where she would do my thinking/logic for me. 'Since you are this, then you think this,... .and because of that, you will do this'. But it should come as no surprise for someone that breaks up because she is convinced that I was going to abandon her. Sigh... .

Particularly frustrating because, before the "discussion" even started, she'd already thought all of this out, and was reacting in response to what she was feeling about what she'd concluded -- before even talking to me. So, by the time she approached me with something that was bothering her, she had already declared me as wrong or guilty. As a result, I always felt like I had to approach discussions carefully, because I always felt like I was about to be ambushed.

What happened? I left her. I tried to make it work for three years, and we weren't getting anywhere -- except she'd become even more comfortable acting out, and my efforts to stay in the r-ship, despite my disappointment and frustration, were only reinforcing that she could behave that way. She was always pressuring for marriage, and I'd told her countless times that, until I saw growth in our ability to get along, I wasn't willing to go there. There were no surprises, contrary to how she likes to portray the breakup -- that she was a perfect partner, long-suffering, completely happy to accept all of my terrible character flaws because she loved me, blah blah blah. I was sick of it all, and beginning to get sick of her. So I broke it off. Three years was more than enough time to figure out if we were emotionally compatible.

Timn300 -- I can relate to what you say here.

I think I was driving my pwBPD crazy because her fears of me abandoning her just grew more and more intense.  So she was in a a lot of pain, confusion, and frustration.  For example, if I took 10 minutes going to the store when she thought it would only take 5, she might be going through pain by thinking I might want to leave her.  She wouldn't tell me "I'm in pain" but she might say something like "Who were you talking to in the store? Etc."  Perhaps your ex began to experience abandonment anxiety/pain like this?

I know I contributed to triggering her insecurities -- by staying true to myself, calling her on her BS and refusing to kowtow to her ridiculous and suffocating expectations. She knew I was on to the dysfunction, and I refused to be guilted into accepting her version of reality, in which I was impatient, rigid, emotionally unavailable -- as well as a cheater, a narcissist and an abuser.

At some point, you do just have to ask, "So, what am I getting out of this r-ship?" I was getting very little.

[eyvindr]

JRT --

I'm sorry, man. You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, and it doesn't sound to me, from what you've shared, that you did anything particularly "wrong."

Its a shame: i was fully prepared to listen and take her problems seriously.

Sounds like you keep falling into the very common rut of trying to find rational explanations for what happened. There aren't any. There may be a few rational pieces laying about, but if you ex suffers from BPD, her entire experience -- from how she thought about the relationship to her expectations of you as a person -- likely wouldn't make any sense if we knew them.

Hang in there, man. Remember -- these boards should support our healing, not keep us stuck in ruminating, something I've done way too much of.

[samj81]

Im curious,has your expwBPD had treatment ?my ex said exactly the same thing to me.he had had treatment and on medication.i seems to me that BPDs that have had treatment seem to known there flaws and evan though they will always be there, they seem to walk away befor they would cause pain to other people.

[JRT]

@Ey... .interesting that your ex used to do your thinking on your behalf as mine did... .it was very frustrating. One of the most frustrating hings here is that my r/s with her was actually pretty good... .it was fulfilling... .we had the same sociological dna and enjoyed doing many of the same things... .sorry to hear that yours did not work out.

I appreciate the compliment... .I am hardly perfect but I was more than happy to go to the ends of the earth to do what needed to be done for the one that I loved the most... .i feel this way about all of my friends and family... .I have turned the corner on healing butt still have some things that I needed to have an 'illogical' explanation of... .I am almost there.

@Sam... .at the end of a recycle, mine used to exclaim that 'she needed to see someone'. As a way of assuaging her, I would tell her that we would get through things together... .and then the entire matter would be swept under the rug. My bad.

I understand that she is no seeing a T... .but likely under the auspices that there was something wrong with ME and now she needs to heal from it. If has has any luck, she found a T who will get to the bottom of it... .