Have you been able to forgive yourself or your BPD?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My BPDw goes from being very emotionally and verbally abusive to being very happy with herself and what she is doing by going to school and working. The downside of her being so busy is that our relationship is not what it used to be, that of being rather close. Of course, she told me some time ago that she has been a people pleaser. So now, besides cooking some meals for me before she goes off to school 3 days a week, I am basically a lonely bachelor instead of a married man. This is very hard to accept and very hard to deal with. She has gone from being very caring and very loving to thinking herself as "holier than thou". She has been this way for a long with her saying that she is better in practically everything than I am. I am not here to be in a race or in competition with her, but it is almost like she expects me to do more. She even expects me to have made more money even before she and I got married.

Now, she is in her happy phase, because she is doing what she wants. When I am alone like this, I have different professional things I am doing which I find a lot of joy with, but my personal time is immersed in movies, television, friends, and my side of the family, my side of the family being very few times seeing that they live far away from here.

So, someone said that it is important to practice radical acceptance. Yet, while I understand this concept, I am beating myself up for being a fool, not forgiving myself for being duped, eating and drinking the wrong things, and not forgiving her. Bottom line, while she is in her temporary happy phase while she is away for 3 days a week and we even have not gone on a date for at least a year, I can't forgive her or me.

So, my question to all of you is the following: have you been able to forgive yourself or your BPD? If so, what did you do to forgive?

[Samuel S.]

My BPDw goes from being very emotionally and verbally abusive to being very happy with herself and what she is doing by going to school and working. The downside of her being so busy is that our relationship is not what it used to be, that of being rather close. Of course, she told me some time ago that she has been a people pleaser. So now, besides cooking some meals for me before she goes off to school 3 days a week, I am basically a lonely bachelor instead of a married man. This is very hard to accept and very hard to deal with. She has gone from being very caring and very loving to thinking herself as "holier than thou". She has been this way for a long with her saying that she is better in practically everything than I am. I am not here to be in a race or in competition with her, but it is almost like she expects me to do more. She even expects me to have made more money even before she and I got married.

Now, she is in her happy phase, because she is doing what she wants. When I am alone like this, I have different professional things I am doing which I find a lot of joy with, but my personal time is immersed in movies, television, friends, and my side of the family, my side of the family being very few times seeing that they live far away from here.

So, someone said that it is important to practice radical acceptance. Yet, while I understand this concept, I am beating myself up for being a fool, not forgiving myself for being duped, eating and drinking the wrong things, and not forgiving her. Bottom line, while she is in her temporary happy phase while she is away for 3 days a week and we even have not gone on a date for at least a year, I can't forgive her or me.

So, my question to all of you is the following: have you been able to forgive yourself or your BPD? If so, what did you do to forgive?

[SlyQQ]

I do not blame anyone for what happened the radical acceptence thing is easy for me It is easy to accept things the way they are an for me overall i did better than 99% of people would have in my situation :)o i forgive an forget NO I have taken WAY to much damage It will haunt me for the rest of my days

[Samuel S.]

SlyQQ, you say it is easy for you to accept things the way they are; however, you cannot forgive and forget due to all the damage that has been created and that it will haunt you for the rest of your days. If you ideally could accept the craziness of your situation, it would make your life easier. Please explain.

For me, it is extremely challenging to forgive my BPDw for all the hurtful things she has said and done and to forget, and yes, it will haunt me for the rest of my days. I just wish I could get out of here, but financially, I can't afford it, at least not right now. Also, I need to be hypnotized completely to possibly feel comfortable with myself. Bottomline, I have been brainwashed into believing that in my personal life, I am stupid, that I am worthless. On the other hand, professionally, I find my joy and my value in helping others. Also, I am sensitive and encouraging for others, just like I have done throughout the years with my BPDw, who now has turned the tables of feeling "superior" while making me feel "inferior", especially getting "help" from a medium counselor who severely hates men. Yeah, she has an inferiority complex to the max!

[jjclark]

Interesting question.

How do you forgive a fire for burning you? 

[SlyQQ]

Yes my ex BPD was an expert at brainwashing an did a list of terrible things equal to some of the worst I have read hear we have a child together an because of that I worked to make us "friends " again " ( though this really seemed impossible / death threats AVOs etc ) I managed somehow to do this an the family is better for it I lost a part of my soul with thatbetrayal an I will never get it back there is no use crying over spilt milk it is no use holding a grudge an it would end up hurting the ones I love my an her children ( who i now care for ) So I accept her and the way things are get on with what i have to do we are on reasonable terms now an work together it doesnt bother me but some things are unforgiveable 

[eyvindr]

Yes, I have been able to forgive -- but our situations are different.

In terms of being betrayed -- that's happened to me twice. First time with my uBPDexw -- cheated on me a only a year into our marriage, and left me with a ton of debt accrued while we were together, and the bulk of parenting duties for our son. I divorced her, but it took me about 10 YEARS to get back on my feet. The important thing was that I did get back on my feet, and proved to myself that life could go on, does improve and you can recover from personal losses, even when they're extreme. I forgave her a few years ago when I realized I just really had no feelings at all on the topic of our former r-ship. She no longer affects my life, I have no real interest in hers, I wish her no ill will -- just glad to be done with it all.

Helps to remember, always -- forgiveness, like boundaries, are for you, not the person who is hurting you.

Also had an ex-fiancee who cheated on me -- I gave her a chance to repair the damage, but we weren't able to get past it. She wasn't BPD, in my opinion. Bipolar, most likely -- with some anxiety and lots of OCD. I broke up with her. Forgave her a few years ago, too -- for the same reasons, as well as understanding that we were simply on different pages in life. She was 14 years younger than me, after all -- looking back, I really shouldn't have been surprised. But, though we lived together, we weren't married, had no kids, and she did her best to be responsible -- she was a loyal employee, liked to earn her own money, wasn't a thief. Just a lot of immaturity.

Most recently, I can forgive me uBPDxgf -- because I really don't feel like she did anything horrible. She wasn't a cheater, or a thief. Any substance abuse issues she may have struggled with had been supplanted by lots of meds for asthma, and in general she had too much anxiety and OCD issues going on to engage in any kind of risky behavior. I loved her a lot, and thought we could have a nice life together -- but the non-stop emotional roller-coaster kept us from moving in together, and kept me from asking her to marry me -- which was a huge issue for her. So, there's not a lot to forgive, because I protected myself from becoming enmeshed in ways that could have hurt me emotionally and financially. Incidentally, she was acutely aware of this, and she did not like it. At. All. My refusal to be emotionally manipulated into doing things I didn't want to was easily the biggest trigger to her emotional dysregulation. She needed an enabler to be happy -- if that's even possible. I had no choice but to leave, really. After three years, I accepted that to have a life with her meant committing to a lifetime of high emotional conflict resulting from my own desperate battle against engulfment and codependence.

As a therapist once asked me, "it's been X months/yrs now, and she's shown no commitment to doing what she needs to do to improve the relationship or herself -- what makes you think this is going to change?"

[Samuel S.]

I was putting the horse before the cart, so to speak, seeing that I asked if you folks have been able to forgive. What I need to ask is when did you choose to forgive? Was there such a time where that things just mellowed out, that you felt within your heart that you were ready to begin to forgive, because your BPD was starting to show consistent signs of not being abusive and irrational?

Also, under these circumstances, HOW, what techniques did you use to forgive? Did you talk with your BPD? Did you read a book about forgiveness? Did you find something on the Internet? Otherwise, did you convince yourself that you had to get over it, to not let your past with your BPD to haunt you continuously?

In my particular situation, when my BPDw is away for 3 days studying, she sounds very relaxed. When she comes back, she focuses on her studies and work. Then, she gets irritated about everything and everyone. Then, she has done less of this; however, the major abuse of the past that she has done hurts me the core, and I feel very lonely and alone. It's almost like this home is a way station in which she either uses it as a study hall where she cannot be interrupted or a place where she packs up to be away for 3 days. Even after her 4 year program about 2 years from now, she plans to practice 2 professions at the same time. So, it is not going to get any better. In fact, it might be the same emotional detachment or worse. Ironic as it may seem, she was the one who complained about her 1st husband doing exactly what she is doing now.

[eyvindr]

Samuel,

Sorry that you're going through this with your wife. If I'm interpreting your words in the way you intend, it sounds like you're feeling marginalized, which is a very difficult thing to feel for a partner in a relationship -- especially one like marriage, which tends to work best when the give and take is reciprocal.

Ironic as it may seem, she was the one who complained about her 1st husband doing exactly what she is doing now.

Oh, people with PDs can be absolute masters of this double-standard kind of behavior -- "what's not ok with me if anyone else does is is perfectly appropriate when I do it." I think it stems from their lack of self-awareness, which is so continually obscured by their attempts to convey idealized versions of themselves to everyone. I think that also helps explain the irritability that we can see -- imaging how exhausting life would be if all of your waking days were essentially an act?

The best you can do is to remember to take care of yourself during this time, Samuel. Keep doing those things you mentioned earlier that give you joy. Try to prevent yourself from becoming isolated -- loneliness can be depressing and paralyzing. Turn some of the attention you're giving to your wife onto yourself. If she chooses not to give to you when she is around, make other plans. Hang in there.

[Samuel S.]

Part of the reason why I have not been able to forgive my BPDw is the consequences of her brainwashing and manipulation of about 6 years ago and how it affects my side of the family even still today. For the last 6 weeks, my oldest D47 who lives with her family in another country has been staying in the United States, and they are about 2 hours away from where I live. I have visited them now 4 times. Also, my youngest D40 and her family joined us for 1 weekend as well. It was a nice visit, but they seemed guarded, even though many years have passed when I told them that they were not my daughters due to not being close to me and not being a family. My BPDw convinced me, brainwashed me, and manipulated me into believing that she, not they, loved me, etc. Even the thought of that memory disgusts me!

After realizing years ago that my BPDw was so negative, I emailed my daughters and never got a response.

Before leaving yesterday to visit my side of the family for the last time for at least a year, my BPDw told me to tell my oldest D47 that she is "sorry to have missed her". My BPDw has had every opportunity to go with me to visit them, but she is "too busy" to make the time. BTW, she told also several days ago that the very sight of my D47 and her 2 sons "trigger" her.

So, my daughters are only human, and I have hurt them. We were together for a short period of time, and we were all together with their families. I did my best with my actions and with my words to make up for all of the hurt I caused them. We hugged and kissed, and I know they didn't have to do that. So, it was a step in the right direction to mend the wounds that my BPDw caused. I only hope they can forgive me or have forgiven me, because I love them so very much.

[eyvindr]

Intention matters, and you are trying. All you can do is your best. Keep doing what your heart tells you to do, and don't let your wife drive. Hang in there.

[Mike-X]

Part of the reason why I have not been able to forgive my BPDw is the consequences of her brainwashing and manipulation of about 6 years ago and how it affects my side of the family even still today. For the last 6 weeks, my oldest D47 who lives with her family in another country has been staying in the United States, and they are about 2 hours away from where I live. I have visited them now 4 times. Also, my youngest D40 and her family joined us for 1 weekend as well. It was a nice visit, but they seemed guarded, even though many years have passed when I told them that they were not my daughters due to not being close to me and not being a family. My BPDw convinced me, brainwashed me, and manipulated me into believing that she, not they, loved me, etc. Even the thought of that memory disgusts me!

After realizing years ago that my BPDw was so negative, I emailed my daughters and never got a response.

Before leaving yesterday to visit my side of the family for the last time for at least a year, my BPDw told me to tell my oldest D47 that she is "sorry to have missed her". My BPDw has had every opportunity to go with me to visit them, but she is "too busy" to make the time. BTW, she told also several days ago that the very sight of my D47 and her 2 sons "trigger" her.

So, my daughters are only human, and I have hurt them. We were together for a short period of time, and we were all together with their families. I did my best with my actions and with my words to make up for all of the hurt I caused them. We hugged and kissed, and I know they didn't have to do that. So, it was a step in the right direction to mend the wounds that my BPDw caused. I only hope they can forgive me or have forgiven me, because I love them so very much.

Good for you for trying to reconnect with your daughters. Have you tried depersonalizing her words and actions by just blaming it on the disorder? What if the things that she said or did to affect your relationship with your daughters were related to her own fears, insecurities, anxiety, past, etc., and for various issues associated with the disorder, she was unable to control what she was saying or unaware of the damage she was causing and thinking she was doing the right thing?

[123Phoebe]

Before leaving yesterday to visit my side of the family for the last time for at least a year, my BPDw told me to tell my oldest D47 that she is "sorry to have missed her". My BPDw has had every opportunity to go with me to visit them, but she is "too busy" to make the time. BTW, she told also several days ago that the very sight of my D47 and her 2 sons "trigger" her.

Samuel, I've followed quite a bit of your story.  From what I can gather, you are retired and very unhappy, but can't leave due to financial reasons.  Your wife is a bit younger than you are and busy with her studies and work, which leaves you feeling very lonely in your marriage.  To make up for the loneliness, you keep busy writing books, tutoring and getting together with friends.  Not telling you what to do, though have you considered finding a job of your own with steady income, something to give you enough stability to get yourself maybe a studio apartment or a room to rent? 

As far as your D47 and her 2 sons "triggering" your wife, it's also been mentioned on numerous occasions that your wife lost a daughter to a mosquito bite when daughter was 7 years old, while another daughter is still living.  Is it possible that the very sight of your daughter with "2 sons" triggers extreme feelings of loss in your wife having lost a child of her own?

I'm not saying that it's an excuse for not wanting to get together with your side of the family, but it could be a reason for her behaving as she does... .

I have no idea what it would feel like to lose a young child, flesh and blood, to a mosquito bite, do you?

Have you read through this very wonderful thread?  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108384.0

It might give you a different perspective, one where you're able to gain some understanding and possibly even forgiveness for what has taken place within your life and marriage.

Perhaps I'm a natural Rescuer... .  Wouldn't be the worst thing I've ever been called.

Sincerely wishing you better days ahead... . 

 

[SlyQQ]

there p's children are often a prime target for people with BPD also one of the reasons I will never forgive my ex

[Samuel S.]

Mike-X, yes, my BPDw has a disorder that makes her act the way that she does. She instinctively acts and talks negatively, because she has a lot of issues in the past. So, everyone is supposed to bow down to her, and she becomes the "powerful" individual. I do my best to validate her and praising her, and she appreciates it that I do so. Yet, 123Phoebe, like you, I have been a rescuer, pure and simple. That article you referred me with the part of the role of the rescuer is just like me as well. I am also a believer of empowerment. Sometimes, I rescue, and sometimes, I empower. It all depends on the circumstances.

Yes, I have no idea what it means to lose a child, and she brings that up to me at different times. This and her mother's emotional and physical abuse when she was younger are a major part of my BPDw's life, although she is doing her best to pursue her own dreams. That within itself is great! Nevertheless, like a child tasting one cookie in a cookie jar, she has been all of the cookies. In other words, she has freely admitted that she has gone from being the loving, extremely helpful individual to the extremely self-serving individual.

Yes, the job that I am currently doing could possibly result in a more stable income. So, if my BPDw does not change which I unfortunately do not see happening, then, if my income becomes more stable, then, I will need to move on with my own life.

As for self-forgiving, it is going to take a lot of time and patience by me to do that. I am much harder on myself. I am an imperfect individual, and it is important to treat others as I would want them to treat me. Yes, I have made minor mistakes, but nothing major as hurting my own daughters. Sure, they wanted to get together with me, and it was friendly, but I am still guilt ridden from the hurt that I was manipulated into believing and into doing, which totally is contradictory of my character.

[Mike-X]

Mike-X, yes, my BPDw has a disorder that makes her act the way that she does. She instinctively acts and talks negatively, because she has a lot of issues in the past. So, everyone is supposed to bow down to her, and she becomes the "powerful" individual. I do my best to validate her and praising her, and she appreciates it that I do so.

Hi Samuel.  I am also struggling with forgiving myself and her. My question to you about depersonalizing her disordered behavior was aimed at helping you with forgiving yourself and your wife. I was not suggesting that you bow down to her.  And given what you know now, you certainly have to be mindful of her BPD when interacting with her in the future.

Here is my attempt at explaining how I am currently thinking about some of these things.

I was not trained on how to successfully interact with a significant other struggling with borderline personality disorder. I wasn't given a rule-book, experience, etc. My experiences with my mother, who certainly has shown a range of borderline traits in my opinion, didn't help at all. And from the Web and other sources, I have seen that even trained counselors struggle to deal with individuals living with BPD, with some even refusing to take them on a patients.  And as you have read from the various posts on this Website, it takes a lot of work to successfully put the lessons into practice, and lots of missteps are typically made along the way.

So when I look back at how I handled things with my girlfriend, who moved out several months ago, could I have handled many situations differently, my answer is now "of course." After reading and studying, there were lots of things that I could have done differently (including saying "no" and recognizing and standing up for my boundaries), and there were lots of things that I started successfully doing differently as I learned. All of the techniques that I have learned to more successfully interact with her definitely would have helped me with lots of different types of interactions in the past (i.e., with friends, bosses, parents, siblings, etc.). However, I didn't have these techniques. I didn't have experience practicing them and learning how to more effectively communicate with her or anyone else. She certainly didn't tell me what she needed. She never mentioned needing "validation." I don't even think that she knew that was what she was struggling to get in some our arguments and her arguments with her family, etc. She never mentioned her abandonment issues, anxiety, depression, rages, etc. when we were dating. She did talk about her past abuse, but she never mentioned that her past abuse has led her to have severe abandonment issues. I admired her as a survivor, when we were dating, who was healthy and happy despite her rough past (part of my own "idealization" issues). She never made the wild accusations or raged when we were dating, and she never told me about doing those things with people she dated in the past. Even today, she struggles with whether she has BPD or not, and whether she was the "innocent victim" or not in her past tumultuous relationships.

So, in my positive moments, I certainly feel like I should forgive myself for not knowing, and I feel like I should even congratulate myself for the effort that I have put in to learning about BPD and the effort that I put in to learning and practicing the techniques.

In my more negative moments, I ask myself how could I have missed so many things, why didn't I do this or that, could I have done something different to keep her from leaving, etc. Of course, when answering such questions, being more positive toward myself, and being more realistic, I assume that I might have been able to prolong her leaving, lessen the frequency and intensity of the rages, better respond to and manage the accusations and paranoia, etc. But in order to lead a healthy life and to experience the joy and love that we both dreamed of having in our intimate relationship, she has the troubled past and the resulting emptiness and fears that she needs to work on.

[Samuel S.]

Mike-X, you definitely have been on the rollercoaster ride, and you definitely have been able to reflect very well to come to the point that you have! I truly do admire you for having come to the conclusions and to the changes you have done!

I know you were not suggesting that I should bow down to my BPDw. There have been so many times that I have tried to calmly and tactfully talk with her, but to no avail. It has been either her way or no way. The end result of all her talk became manipulation by her and resignation by me. Even this very day today, she asserted that I do not clean well enough, thus causing her to clean up after me. I said that I would do a better job to which she said I was being defensive. I responded by saying that I was not being defensive. Rather, I recognize there is a problem, and I will do my best to clean even better. Of course, she didn't like that, because she prefers to control. Essentially, if I stand up for myself and if I have my boundary, she considers me being defensive. Also, this verbal abuse just wears me down to become very depressed. She too experienced verbal abuse, but also physical abuse when she was a child. Thus, she is paying it forward negatively, although if she were to hit me, I would be out of here in a heartbeat. I am just depressed by her verbal abuse.

[icom]

Most intimate partnerships work on the principle of symmetrical exchanges, and there health is conditional on the amount of perceived emotional reciprocation. 

BPD exists in a very primitive, entirely defensive, ego state, and will never be able to participate in a symmetrical exchange. 

The worst that can be said for the scenario is that it is disharmonious and unfruitful; the only sensible conclusion to be derived from it is that one needs to terminate the union as quickly as possible; it is in a state of continuous de escalation from the start.   

Ultimately, there is nothing to forgive, as it is unrealistic and immature to define a person as inerrant on all matters. 

If you want a secure and happy life free from difficulties, your best course of action is to not engage in attachment partnerships at all.

In my youth, I derived great pleasure in rock climbing, and deep-sea sailing.  I recall an ex being intrigued by these activities of mine, and positing on me qualities and capabilities I do not possess.  I reminded her that happy, well-adjusted people do not heave a need to engage in such activities, and that the greatest challenges are to be found closer to home.  Any idiot can sail a boat across the ocean, but it takes a very gifted person, indeed, to successfully negotiate their way through their relationships.   

[SlyQQ]

The greatest journeys are within ones self

[hergestridge]

When my wife had cheated on me she went to her therapist for advice. Her therapist told her that she needed to forgive herself, which she obviously did right away.

I must admit I found the concept bizarre. Forgivenes is something you can reqeuest from other people.

[Samuel S.]

Hergestridge, now that your wife has forgiven herself, how are the 2 of you now? How do you feel about her? Do you know the other person? If so, how do you feel about that person? I hope if your marriage is worth saving, that you 2 are being that much more communicative with one another.

My BPDw hasn't cheated on me as far as I know; however, even if I forgive her for her latest verbal abuse, there are so many other malicious behaviors she has done for which she has not apologized. Also, her pattern of behavior is to be in a good mood, thus wanting to degrade others including me. Then, when she is in a bad mood, she degrades others including me. When I have responded tactfully and respectfully but also validating her feelings, she just says that I am being defensive. I say to her that I am not being defensive. Bottom line, she wants me to let her be verbally abusive while I keep my mouth shut. So, sometimes, I do, and, sometimes, I don't. If the tables were turned, she would be upset for a long period of time. Nevertheless, I do not and will not stoop down to her level of viciousness. I believe in treating people humanely.

[eyvindr]

I believe in treating people humanely.

Does suffering in a r-ship with a pwBPD qualify as treating yourself humanely?

[Mike-X]

Mike-X, you definitely have been on the rollercoaster ride, and you definitely have been able to reflect very well to come to the point that you have! I truly do admire you for having come to the conclusions and to the changes you have done!

Thanks. I have good days and bad days. I miss what we had, and I feel sorry for her and worry about her.  It seems that we are now engaged in minimal contact, so I have no idea what she is up to these days. 

I know you were not suggesting that I should bow down to my BPDw. There have been so many times that I have tried to calmly and tactfully talk with her, but to no avail. It has been either her way or no way. The end result of all her talk became manipulation by her and resignation by me. Even this very day today, she asserted that I do not clean well enough, thus causing her to clean up after me. I said that I would do a better job to which she said I was being defensive. I responded by saying that I was not being defensive. Rather, I recognize there is a problem, and I will do my best to clean even better. Of course, she didn't like that, because she prefers to control. Essentially, if I stand up for myself and if I have my boundary, she considers me being defensive. Also, this verbal abuse just wears me down to become very depressed. She too experienced verbal abuse, but also physical abuse when she was a child. Thus, she is paying it forward negatively, although if she were to hit me, I would be out of here in a heartbeat. I am just depressed by her verbal abuse.

I do remember the escalation of the negativity and the invalidating accusations about me being defensive. I found that she had trouble actually reading my emotions through my facial expressions and tones. I found that if I smiled, a big exaggerated smile, whenever we were talking about her feelings, concerns, suspicions, etc. the interactions remained calm, and she would even smile at times. At first I tried lots of validation and the validation-respectfully disagree or insert my opinion-validation approach. Just providing validation calmed things down considerably, something like, "I understand that you are angry/hurt; you have a right to be angry/hurt; your feelings are valid; however, I have my own feelings or my own view of things and... .; but I respect your feelings and views too." It just seemed so much more effective when I responded and listened with a big smile. It was a big fake smile too. I tried it with my son, and he called me on it right away. With her, it seemed that if I responded in a hurt, angry, or neutral way, things would escalate. Maybe "hurt" made her feel bad, so she would react with anger to avoid feeling bad. "Anger" could have triggered her anger or even hurt and a reaction to avoid feeling hurt.

Once the BPD traits started to appear, she also didn't respond well to exuberance, which we both showed a lot of in the idealization dating phase and I loved.

[Samuel S.]

I don't know how long it is going to last, but for at least today, I decided to focus on what is important to accomplish instead of forgiving my BPDw or myself. I don't know if that is denial or what, but it turned out to be a pretty good day with teaching, tutoring, making new connections to help even more people, and even getting a $30 gift card to Starbucks from one of the students whom I tutor. In other words, it was a very productive day that others and I felt very happy with.

When my BPDw called tonight, she wanted to talk about how rough it is to be studying while she is out of town for 3 days nearby a beach. Then, she asked about my day. I mentioned all of the above to her, and all she could do was to say "that's nice". While it would be nice to get more than a "that's nice", say for instance "I am really proud of you", I realize that she is not capable of doing so due to her being so selfish while I am quite the opposite. This is just how I have always been. I wish she would feel different, but I can't move a castle, either. I just focus on others not for their approval, but to be able to help, and they know it, and they feel more confident. I just wish the same positive vibes would be with her with me.

[eyvindr]

Hi Sam,

Sounds like you're making progress-- glad to hear you were able to spend your day doing things that make you feel satisfied, and were able to reap the benefits from that.

If I may ask a question -- I found this to be interesting. In your post, you say that when you help people:

I just focus on others not for their approval, but to be able to help, and they know it, and they feel more confident.

But when you talk about your wife, you say:

While it would be nice to get more than a "that's nice", say for instance "I am really proud of you", I realize that she is not capable of doing so due to her being so selfish while I am quite the opposite. This is just how I have always been. I wish she would feel different, but I can't move a castle, either.

I could be wrong, but the way you wrote it makes it sound to me like you have different expectations of how your wife responds to you than you do for other people. Not saying that's a bad thing, just that it sounds different. Are you aware of this?

[Mike-X]

I don't know how long it is going to last, but for at least today, I decided to focus on what is important to accomplish instead of forgiving my BPDw or myself. I don't know if that is denial or what, but it turned out to be a pretty good day with teaching, tutoring, making new connections to help even more people, and even getting a $30 gift card to Starbucks from one of the students whom I tutor. In other words, it was a very productive day that others and I felt very happy with.

Very nice.

When my BPDw called tonight, she wanted to talk about how rough it is to be studying while she is out of town for 3 days nearby a beach. Then, she asked about my day. I mentioned all of the above to her, and all she could do was to say "that's nice". While it would be nice to get more than a "that's nice", say for instance "I am really proud of you", I realize that she is not capable of doing so due to her being so selfish while I am quite the opposite. This is just how I have always been. I wish she would feel different, but I can't move a castle, either. I just focus on others not for their approval, but to be able to help, and they know it, and they feel more confident. I just wish the same positive vibes would be with her with me.

It is nice that she asked about your day and provided at least the "that's nice", but I certainly understand you wanting that extra validation. I remember replacing the front door to our house and getting a quiet "the door is nice" after asking "well, what do you think?" I am not a carpenter or handy-man, and it took a lot of work, including several tries to get the things straight and the trim right. I then began smiling and joking around with her saying, "Come on. You can give me more than 'the door is nice.' How about 'High-five! That door rocks! You rock Honey!'" The exuberant response is what she gave during the idealization period.    She did smile a little more and laughed a little bit with my dancing around.

[Samuel S.]

While my BPDw was gone for the last 3 days which felt very nice to me by feeling more relaxed, she would call and ask how my day went as I explained previously. She came back tonight earlier than I did. She heated up a meal, and it was ready for me which was very nice of her, and I thanked her for it. The pan that she used to heat up the meal was in the sink. I ate and washed the plate, but I was so focused on doing my professional work, I simply forgot to clean the pan. A little while later, she told that seeing that she heated the meal, that I could have cleaned the pan. Yeah, I screwed up by not cleaning the pan, and I apologized. Now, she is not talking with me, and it feels like she is using this forgetfulness on my part as a way to keep herself distant in order to do more of her studies. It was a mistake. I am human, and I apologized. If she makes a mistake which there have been far worse and extremely abusi the "superior" one. Yeah, right? As is her normal pattern, if a person does something wrong, then, she casts the doom spell on them. UGH!

[eyvindr]

Oy, that's annoying, Sam. Try to shake it off. That's her problem, not yours. Hang in there.

[Samuel S.]

Eyvindr, yes, I try to shake off her problem. It is so easy to do just that when she is not around; however, when she is around, I need to walk on eggshells and be guarded.

Related to all of our BPD challenges, I was thinking of the game of chess and our BPDs. There is no "winning" with a BPD. In fact, it becomes a stalemate. To take it one step farther, we are dealing with a stale mate. Yes, our frustration can make us realize that we made a wrong decision by getting involved with our BPDs with all of the time that we have devoted to them, only to oftentimes result in bad conditions for ourselves. It is like if we could only wish we could reverse time and tell ourselves to run away from them instead of getting involved with them!

[apollotech]

Hmmm, forgiveness, that can be tough. Like many of the people posting here I went through the whole gauntlet of BPD abuse with my BPDexgf, with the exception of physical or financial abuse. But man, the emotional abuse was wrecking.

I had never even heard of BPD when her odd behavior came to the surface. At the time that it was occurring, when I was still unaware that she had a personality disorder, I was not in a forgiving mood; in fact, I was very confused and looking for answers. The closer we got, the harder she tried to sabotage the relationship. When she would be successful with her task, she'd immediately run back in to restore the relationship once again (push/pull at its hurtful finest). This wrecked me emotionally as I was, and still am to an extent, deeply in love with this woman.

I could not find an answer for her odd behaviors--rages, push/pull, warped reality, unfounded accusations, infidelity, etc. (We all know the characteristics.). So, I began Googling her behavior and learned about BPD. I set an appointment with a local therapist who was experienced with treating patients with BPD. After meeting with him and exhaustively researching the subject myself, I was/am confident that her odd behaviors were/are the result of BPD.

Now comes forgiveness. For me to forgive her, I had to no longer see her actions as maliciously directed at me. She has a disorder that she did not ask for. A disorder that has wrecked her two marriages and countless relationships, including ours. I cannot imagine the suffering that this disorder has brought this poor woman during her lifetime. We, as Non's, only have to live through the Hell of a BPD relationship one time; whereas, the person afflicted with BPD lives the nightmare over and over again with each relationship partner. What a terrible fate for anyone.

That is when I chose to COMPLETELY forgive my BPDexgf. She is not running her life; her disorder is running her life, and it's completely wrecking her life, over and over, again and again. I do not believe in forgive and forget. I will forgive, but I will not forget. That is why she is my "ex" gf. Even though we are now NC, I still love her (not romantically), have compassion for her, empathize with her, pity her, am friends with her, etc. I sepetated her from her disorder through my own understanding of her disorder. I forgave her, not her disorder. Forgiveness is as much of a blessing to the Forgiver as it is to the Forgiven.

[Samuel S.]

Apollotech and others, I appreciate all of your responses. It makes sense that the BPD's past are immensely influential as to how they will act with their SO. And yes, Apoolotech, to be able to forgive them for their illness is very important to strive for.

I have always been a forgiving type of guy. We all mistakes. Having been a teacher for over 40 years, I have encountered all kinds of mistakes made by students. If I were to discount them after one or several mistakes, I am afraid I would have very few students left. Having been in other relationships, you take the good with the not so good.

With all that being said, I have forgiven and forgiven and forgiven what my BPDw has done by being verbally and emotionally abusive and for being manipulative. Now, though, she continues being a combination of nice to being down right verbally and emotionally abusive, based on her day. I guess what I am saying is I have become not angry with her, but exhausted by her need to control. Sure, I rationalize her tremendous mood swings which she conveniently never acknowledges and apologizes for.

Just recently, I became infected with the flu. While she has done some food preparation for me which I appreciate and have thanked her quite a bit, all of my thanking, all of my helping her when I am well which is most of the time, listening and validating whenever she wishes to do so, none of that has made her realize that I have been there for her all along. She only has continued to be that much more verbally and emotionally abusive, the same type of abuse along with physical abuse that she experienced when she was a child. Now, she is doing exactly the same thing.

Of course, this is very common unfortunately, but she has a choice as to what she does. If she does something totally out of the realms of decency, fine, IF she is willing to apologize and to learn from the past. Then, I can forgive, because we are all human. What makes it worse is the fact that she is getting weekly therapy.

BTW, I have tried numerous times to tactfully talk with her, how it hurts me. Yet, she rationalizes it to the max to continue doing the same.

My only escapegoats are my family and my professional friends.