My Post Divorce CoParent Counseling

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Divorced 2012, after sporadic but consistent issues with custody since the divorce, I filed a petition last summer.  Out of it came, no changes or acknowledgements based on the issues I was having, but a directive to attend coparent counseling.  My L suggest an “effective” Dr and we go.

Have been going sicne Sept.  I continue to have issues with exuNPD/BPDw arrange activities wihtout discussing with me, and stand in the way of therapy for our S10 who has behavioral issues, was diagnosed asperger’s, now diagnosed with disruptive beahvior and impulse control disorder.  Something like that. 

Some time ago I had enrolled S10, copied ex, in an after school social skills class.  The first day after enrollment comes and goes, and she doesn’t take him.  When we first discussed this, ex had mentioned this class to me on the day it started.  I knew nothing about it, what kind of class it was, etc., and said that he was not going to go.  It was my night with the kids.  The following day I check with our consultant, talk to the Dr. running the group, and enroll him.  Again, copy ex, and then she doesn’t take him.  When I ask why he did not go, her reason, “Oh, well S10 had football after school and I felt it too much for him to go after that.  Plus, when you said no, I enrolled him in a viola class.”

So this has come up numerous time since then, each time ex distorting this with, she had wanted him to go, but I said no.  So it became a fabricated way of making me look like the villain, the unsupporting parent.  That appeared more important to her than getting S10 help.

So I had to bring up, one, the activities and that they need to get discussed with me, before being discussed with the kids.  So I use this as my example.  She again distorts the story – probably doesn’t realize the truth anymore and is with the distortion.

We also discuss the cahgne in S10’s diagnosis from asperger’s, to now more of a conduct disorder.  This is the only part of the Behavioral Specialists work that ex has acknowledged, the change in diagnosis.  Ex pretty much discovered the asperger’s diagnosis for him and thought it was correct.  This was via a school re-eval after he was frist diagnsoed ODD.  She didn’t think ODD, “was S10.”  Now ex is saying that the new disorder is not “correct.”  Her words. 

We go back and forth.  Finally, I’ve had it, I didn’t realzie it, but I guess my words came across too strong.  I had expalined that I was feeling for S10 because I felt many of his behaviors were learend, as opposed to thing she was born with.  Basically insinuating that ex was the root of his issues which I still believe to be true.

At this point it had gotten too testy, Dr halts the session and asks to see me alone.  I say, fine, I’ll stay now and we can talk.  I spill the beans, I tell the Dr. about this case of entrapment and that there is more at work than what he is seeing or that I have mentioned.  We talk, he asks that I come back with my girlfriend the next session.

So that was last night.  The Dr starts stressing to me that I won’t get anywhere with the dialogue that I was using.  I admit that I didn’t realzie it was bad and that I had worked hard since we first went to couple’s counsleing to not use the “you” statements etc.  All the while realzing nothing had changed with ex and that she had continued the same behavior in these sessions as in the past.  I told him that I was not going to go through these sessions and tolerate the lies and I wasn’t going to allow myself to be attacked.  I also told him that he was going to have to be a little more vigilant about pouncing on ex when she goes on her tangents in my direction. 

So I did ask, what are the odds of this working with one combatatn with a poentially severe mental illness?  He really danced around that, but arrvied back at trying to institute this “glass half full” mantra in me that has been difficult for me.

All in all, I STILL leave the session with little hope and a feelign that this is just allll for naught.

Fast forward a day, I travelled for work last week.  So, we had discussed in these sessions about trades.  Historically ex does not follow the ROFR and does nto give me time back that I have lost for whatever reason.  We discuss this in one session, FOR AT LEAST 30 MINUTES, just the idea of trades, and did not come to a 100% agreement. 

So last week I traveled, sent an e-mail to this effect and that I would expect to have the boys all this week in trade.  She says that she would take the boys.  I had to give up last night due to this appt, today kids are off due to snow.  So, I get an e-mail from ex saying that, “I will keep the boys tonight,” and this sets me off as we had made the agreement – or I thought we had.  Her agument now is that it is her night and that she only agreed to take the boys, not that she would give me time back.

So I’m fuming and have no recourse at all.

My gf just doesn’t really get it and what ex does.  The idea of dealing with an individual with BPD has not come up, or simply a mental illness, but we’re trying to do this thing called coparent counsleing.  I’m having a tough time finding any benefit.  The few things that have beena ccomplished have taken so much time and effort it simply doesn’t feel like the ends justify the means.             



 

[scraps66]

Divorced 2012, after sporadic but consistent issues with custody since the divorce, I filed a petition last summer.  Out of it came, no changes or acknowledgements based on the issues I was having, but a directive to attend coparent counseling.  My L suggest an “effective” Dr and we go.

Have been going sicne Sept.  I continue to have issues with exuNPD/BPDw arrange activities wihtout discussing with me, and stand in the way of therapy for our S10 who has behavioral issues, was diagnosed asperger’s, now diagnosed with disruptive beahvior and impulse control disorder.  Something like that. 

Some time ago I had enrolled S10, copied ex, in an after school social skills class.  The first day after enrollment comes and goes, and she doesn’t take him.  When we first discussed this, ex had mentioned this class to me on the day it started.  I knew nothing about it, what kind of class it was, etc., and said that he was not going to go.  It was my night with the kids.  The following day I check with our consultant, talk to the Dr. running the group, and enroll him.  Again, copy ex, and then she doesn’t take him.  When I ask why he did not go, her reason, “Oh, well S10 had football after school and I felt it too much for him to go after that.  Plus, when you said no, I enrolled him in a viola class.”

So this has come up numerous time since then, each time ex distorting this with, she had wanted him to go, but I said no.  So it became a fabricated way of making me look like the villain, the unsupporting parent.  That appeared more important to her than getting S10 help.

So I had to bring up, one, the activities and that they need to get discussed with me, before being discussed with the kids.  So I use this as my example.  She again distorts the story – probably doesn’t realize the truth anymore and is with the distortion.

We also discuss the cahgne in S10’s diagnosis from asperger’s, to now more of a conduct disorder.  This is the only part of the Behavioral Specialists work that ex has acknowledged, the change in diagnosis.  Ex pretty much discovered the asperger’s diagnosis for him and thought it was correct.  This was via a school re-eval after he was frist diagnsoed ODD.  She didn’t think ODD, “was S10.”  Now ex is saying that the new disorder is not “correct.”  Her words. 

We go back and forth.  Finally, I’ve had it, I didn’t realzie it, but I guess my words came across too strong.  I had expalined that I was feeling for S10 because I felt many of his behaviors were learend, as opposed to thing she was born with.  Basically insinuating that ex was the root of his issues which I still believe to be true.

At this point it had gotten too testy, Dr halts the session and asks to see me alone.  I say, fine, I’ll stay now and we can talk.  I spill the beans, I tell the Dr. about this case of entrapment and that there is more at work than what he is seeing or that I have mentioned.  We talk, he asks that I come back with my girlfriend the next session.

So that was last night.  The Dr starts stressing to me that I won’t get anywhere with the dialogue that I was using.  I admit that I didn’t realzie it was bad and that I had worked hard since we first went to couple’s counsleing to not use the “you” statements etc.  All the while realzing nothing had changed with ex and that she had continued the same behavior in these sessions as in the past.  I told him that I was not going to go through these sessions and tolerate the lies and I wasn’t going to allow myself to be attacked.  I also told him that he was going to have to be a little more vigilant about pouncing on ex when she goes on her tangents in my direction. 

So I did ask, what are the odds of this working with one combatatn with a poentially severe mental illness?  He really danced around that, but arrvied back at trying to institute this “glass half full” mantra in me that has been difficult for me.

All in all, I STILL leave the session with little hope and a feelign that this is just allll for naught.

Fast forward a day, I travelled for work last week.  So, we had discussed in these sessions about trades.  Historically ex does not follow the ROFR and does nto give me time back that I have lost for whatever reason.  We discuss this in one session, FOR AT LEAST 30 MINUTES, just the idea of trades, and did not come to a 100% agreement. 

So last week I traveled, sent an e-mail to this effect and that I would expect to have the boys all this week in trade.  She says that she would take the boys.  I had to give up last night due to this appt, today kids are off due to snow.  So, I get an e-mail from ex saying that, “I will keep the boys tonight,” and this sets me off as we had made the agreement – or I thought we had.  Her agument now is that it is her night and that she only agreed to take the boys, not that she would give me time back.

So I’m fuming and have no recourse at all.

My gf just doesn’t really get it and what ex does.  The idea of dealing with an individual with BPD has not come up, or simply a mental illness, but we’re trying to do this thing called coparent counsleing.  I’m having a tough time finding any benefit.  The few things that have beena ccomplished have taken so much time and effort it simply doesn’t feel like the ends justify the means.             



 

[ForeverDad]

This may not work for you since you are probably away more than your ex, but try to get trades beforehand.  Yeah, right, that'll go nowhere fast.   Has she ever asked for you to take the children?  Then don't let any 'agreement' get documented and when she wants 'her' time, just say "No, it's my time"?  Of course you'll be vilified but would there be legal consequences?

I found this post very enlightening.  It mentions a therapist who explains the motivations behind the behaviors in ways we can easily grasp - and yes the endless parenting conflicts we deal with and the poor behaviors the children are exposed to have a huge impact on the children... .

This brief article is from a monthly newsletter I receive from Heather Forbes organization Beyond Consequences Institute. Her books and a workshop I attended have helped me so much... .

You can find more at www.beyondconsequences.com/

Q&A for Parents - Your Child is Misbehaving, Are You Listening?

By: Heather T. Forbes, LCSW

When reviewing records of many of the children with whom I work, I am forever perplexed at one particular notation I continually see written by therapists and counselors. Under the list of negative traits of the child, it is often written, "Child exhibits attention-seeking behaviors."

I strongly believe that children seek attention because they NEED attention. Nature has designed children to be completely dependent on their parents at the moment they are born... .

The natural flow of the developmental journey of a child is to gradually release this need for attention, moving from a state of dependence to a state of balanced independence. The time period for this is about 18 years. We are the only animals in the animal kingdom that have our children under our care for this length of time. Expecting our children to not need our attention or to view it as a negative behavioral issue during these 18 years goes against our biology.

When children do not know how to verbally express their needs (which is predominately the case during early childhood), they "speak" through their behaviors. In other words, behavior is a form of communication... .Here is a list of ten behaviors along with an interpretation of each behavior to demonstrate this:

  Slamming Doors... .

  Cursing... .

  Shutting Down... .

  Hitting Sibling... .

  Challenging Authority... .

  Saying, "I hate you!"... .

  Arguing About Everything... .

  Laziness... .

  Pushing Every Boundary... .

  Becoming Unglued During Transitions... .

[momtara]

some counselors are good and aggressive and set boundaries.  Some are too diplomatic, more like marriage counselors.

during the next session, perhaps you can focus on her not complying with the trades.  see where it goes.

maybe you need a better counselor.  how long do you have to be with this one?  sometimes courts can appoint them.

[Ishenuts]

You said there was no agreement regarding trades during the session? What were you looking for? This is a tough one. We generally recommend "sticking with the court order" when dealing with npd/BPDs. Isn't that what she was doing?

I also work with a parental coordinator and it is a nightmare. She acknowledges to me alone that he is uNPD, but she tries to make him happy because, as we all know, that makes it it easier. No rages! I wish I could get another PC but my lawyer says I'm stuck with her. AND we have no time limit so it could be another 5.5 years of this craziness!

[scraps66]

Ishenuts... .YES!  ahhahahaah, that felt good for a second!

[scraps66]

In the coparent counseling, and in my petition, my issue was that I never get my time lost in trade.  So after about 30 minutes of poking and prodding, she sort of nodded that this could be done.  Not decisively.  It is not in my very crappy and detail-less court order.   

[momtara]

5.5 years? why no limit? i don't think you should be stuck with this person.

[david]

I've been to four co parent counseling meetings so far. What I found that works is to prioritize what is important. It took three meetings before I was able to establish phone contact with our boys when they are with their mom. It is a drawn out process. Our counselor, up to this point, has pretty much took my positions on everything I brought up. He hasn't done it directly because that would be confrontational for ex. He goes round in circles with ex but comes back to the original topic. I just sit there and listen until he asks me to chime in. I have spoken up when ex lies. I simply say that is not how I recall that happening or I give very specific details about what ex is saying that counters her lies. My ex is getting worse. I think her continual lies have caught up to her and she doesn't remember everything she says. I actually heard her several times completely contradict what she just finished saying. I pointed that out once and the counselor pointed it out at another meeting once. Ex just continues without missing a beat. I am sure the counselor gets how difficult ex is. In my situation ex is paying for the majority of this so I don't have concerns about the expense. I don't believe this process is designed to be quick and easy. Also, since the counselor can not be brought to testify in court it really is useless in large part.

I believe we both live in Pa and since parent coordinators were made illegal by the state supreme court a while back this has become the go to for the courts.

I would try to get ex to agree to make up time when you go to work. That is reasonable. If she says no then ask her for her reasons why she disagrees. If you can find solutions to her refusal keep at it until she gives in. Get it in writing after that.

We went to a custody eval and ex insisted if I got more time with our boys they would be kicked out of their school. It made no sense. I explained that my atty was certain that was not true. I had all the papers from the school and they mentioned nothing that ex insisted. I even offered to have my atty write an amendment to our order so the judge would not allow the school to expel our boys. I would pay for the entire thing. It took three eval meetings and ex insisted she was correct. That was in the summer.

She changed her tune in our counseling meetings and is now saying she can not afford to live in her house if I get more time ? I am not sure how and it makes no sense. Everything she claimed in one meeting I now have info that would prove her claims are incorrect.

Write up a detailed plan on makeup time that she can sign and you can sign and take to court to have official. It doesn't cost much to do that if both parties agree.