She is asking me to come home

[formflier]

she just called me and i mean yelled at me horrifically.  

HH... .hey... .we need to get some armor on you... .FAST! 

Please help us understand why you stayed on the phone past a couple seconds of yelling?  What was going through your head... .how did that decision making work for you?

I'm not saying this is the only solution... .but right now... .this is how I deal with it.

Me:  "hello... .what's going on"

w:  "I'm worried about blah blah blah

Me:  "well... I'm working right now... let's see if we can handle something quickly... ."

w:  "If you loved me... .you would take as much time as you need (assume she is "yelling" now... .or clearly mad)"

Me:  "I'll be happy to discuss this with you later after work when we can both talk properly about this important subect... ."

Click... .

Ignore texts and callbacks... .

[formflier]

 

It really is that simple... .

Note... she will still be mad... but that is her choice.

You have avoided all the vitriol... .that she was going to spew.

IN other words... you stepped out of the way of the bazooka!   

Same thing that night.

me "High honey... .I'm home... .hoping we can talk properly about xyz in 10 minutes... ."

w... "ok"

me... ."great... .dinner smells wonderful... .you look hot (etc etc)."  Keep doing great things... .as long as she doesn't wig out... .

assume conversation has started... .been productive... .and she starts yelling... .or calling me names.

"I'm going to take a break for 10 minutes... .hopefully we can talk properly when I return" 


Walk out

Very important not to point out her wrong doing... .that is accusatory... .use "we"

Not saying never point it out... .but... .for me... .that has rarely worked... .

[momtara]

She says unreasonable things and asks unreasonable questions.  You need to politely get out of the argument quickly, or it just keeps getting worse -- you KNOW logic isn't going to help, but I understand why you try.  I've been there.

But then you end up saying too much and you regret it.

How about responding:

"I love you but I can't talk now because I am working." And hang up.

or

"I love you but I can't keep defending myself."  And walk into a different room.

or

"I love you but I don't deserve to be insulted." And pick up a magazine.

or if it's night:

"I love you but I need sleep to be able to work and function."

What can she blame you for then?  Well, 'ignoring her,' but that's not as bad as the other things.

At this point she's just trying to find reasons to blame you.  She would have sent you that divorce link yesterday or tomorrow - she's practically trying to destroy you because of her illness.

DO NOT TAKE THE SECOND DAY OFF.  She will ask for a third.  She always wants more.

Defending yourself, buying more stuff, etc., etc., never gets you into a better situation.

Do something different.  Bring a book with you and read it if she starts getting verbally abusive.  It can be a book related to work.  Or bring headphones.  Also carry a tape recorder in case she hits you for 'ignoring' her.

Whatever you do, stop letting her drive the arguments.  You can't win them so don't participate.  

And really, a six-figure job isn't enough?  Or $200,000?  For most people it would be a lot.

By the way, anything she says about her therapist is a lie.  My ex quoted his therapist for a year.  Turned out he wasn't seeing one.  It was made up but he said it all with a straight face.  To this day I still fall for it.  

[hurthusband]

it was her therapist who told me not to contact her.

my wife had made tremendous changes with her mother dying but all gone now.  her doc according to my wife thinks she is the greatest.  writing a book on her and so forth

we got insurance that covers out of some of doc though and she raised rates by splitting up a double session and constantly reschedules my wife and promised to be at funeral then did not, so I am not sure how I feel about anyone now...

now my mother just told me she is evicted my step father.  they have been divorced for 3 years, but for some odd reason he has just refused to leave so everywhere is dysfunction and i have no clue what my role is in it all

[Grey Kitty]

she was upset with me saying I basically had a choice... my mother or her.

Actually that isn't your choice. You get to make two choices:

A: Are you going to stay married to your wife / stay with her?

[The answer I've seen in your previous postings is mostly yes]

B: Are you going to maintain a r/s with your mother / work with her?

[The answer I've seen in your previous postings is always yes]

THOSE ARE YOUR CHOICES.

Your wife is telling you that you have to choose between her and your mother. You don't.

She may be telling you that she will leave if you continue working with your mother. That is HER choice, not YOURS.



When she asks it this way, My suggestion is to tell her that you aren't making that choice.

"I'm choosing to stay married to you and I'm choosing to continue working with my mother."

"If you don't want to stay in a marriage with me, I cannot keep you from ending it."

Don't bite.

[hurthusband]

yea... i think its over.  i was at dealership finishing up and had two cars go dead on me.  I knew that would make me about 30 minutes late and knew she would be furious so i admitted i was going to be late and she said i could pick up my things at that set time of 630 so i just said i would go without.

she went off on how i ruined the marriage and i abandoned her and i beat her down at the worst part of her life.  i am not sure if thats true or not.  i know i admit i could have done better.  i noticed she never took any credit for the bad she had done though which is telling i think

i have mixed feelings.  The fear is not there when i am not around her which is nice, but i miss her too.  its confusing.  i suppose i feel safer away from her

[ForeverDad]

she went off on how i ruined the marriage and i abandoned her and i beat her down at the worst part of her life.  i am not sure if thats true or not.  i know i admit i could have done better.  i noticed she never took any credit for the bad she had done though which is telling i think

Hey, are you on her side or on your side?   You're minimizing what she's done and discounting all you've done.  That is not balanced thinking!  Got it?

i have mixed feelings.  The fear is not there when i am not around her which is nice, but i miss her too.  its confusing.  i suppose i feel safer away from her

I too was conflicted, I put off taking action for months.  But that first night at home with her away was... ."Priceless".  As I said then, the silence was deafening.  It was so calm it felt eerie.  I miss being married but I don't miss the conflict and certainly don't want to retreat into past patterns.

Setting boundaries are crucial but, yes, sometimes that gets pushback, what we call Extinction Bursts, where the conflict gets even rougher in an attempt to cow us back into appeaser mode.  Sadly, yes, this may be the end.  If so, you can handle it.  And you have local support (your mother), a therapist and peer support here.  However, there is a small chance this will sink in and get her to finally look deeply inside herself.  (But don't believe any claims of sudden insight, improvement has to persist over months and years, it doesn't happen like turning a switch.  As they say, recovery is a process, not an event.)

Be prepared for her to be swimming with Entitlement, wanting the house paid off, cars, support, tons of money, though she'll gladly let you keep the debt.  In other words, be careful not to make promises that are unwise or unwarranted, always bounce them off a lawyer or other objective person, don't let her pressure you, allow yourself time to think things through.

[momtara]

I don't understand why her therapist is acting that way either.  Writing a book on her?  Is that for real? Sounds like it violates confidentiality and she is using something for her benefit that is destroying you.  :)id the T actually say that, or your wife did?  Sounds weird.  Anyway, your T can talk to her T maybe.

It's seemed like it was over before, many times, and it was not.  The key is for you to not do or say anything you will regret.  You second guess yourself enough as it is.  Just keep repeating positive things that don't place blame, like some of the things I mentioned.  How can she argue with that?

The posts above are right. You may not choose the divorce, so don't. But don't destroy yourself either.  This is too much for a person to handle.  You are smarter than she is.  Stay above it.  If you have to step out, do that.  Just don't get sucked in and please please don't do anything else to satisfy her that hurts you, because in the end, it makes things worse (don't pay more money or take more days off or risk your job any more.  If you are out of a job and broke, or sick, you can't help anyone.)

[momtara]

I don't think you could have done any better.  Don't say things like that to her because she will believe it.  Sounds like you barely responded, which is much better than before.  It gives her less ammunition.

[formflier]

 

Do you know that the Therapist said all these things about your wife... .and is going to write a book... and was going to come to the funeral... .

Or... was that information given to you by your wife?

[hurthusband]

things are progressing worse and worse... starting a new thread with latest message

[momtara]

I was thinking about you this morning and something occurred to me.  She wants you to file for divorce.  She seems to be able to make you do things you don't want.  This is the last thing you control, the last power you have.  Don't file.  She wants it, let her do it and pay the money.  She wants you to do it so that for the rest of her life she can say that YOU left.  You will feel bad about it forever.  Until you are really ready, let her try to force you, and just don't do it.  If she wants to wreck your marriage, let her take responsibility.  Do not think that you'll start the process and she'll see how darn wrong she was and beg you to stop.  It won't happen (or it might for a day, but not permanently.)  Too many have done that and it won't stop the divorce, just make you feel hoodwinked.

[hurthusband]

I was thinking about you this morning and something occurred to me.  She wants you to file for divorce.  She seems to be able to make you do things you don't want.  This is the last thing you control, the last power you have.  Don't file.  She wants it, let her do it and pay the money.  She wants you to do it so that for the rest of her life she can say that YOU left.  You will feel bad about it forever.  Until you are really ready, let her try to force you, and just don't do it.  If she wants to wreck your marriage, let her take responsibility.  Do not think that you'll start the process and she'll see how darn wrong she was and beg you to stop.  It won't happen (or it might for a day, but not permanently.)  Too many have done that and it won't stop the divorce, just make you feel hoodwinked.

she had said we do not have the money and she did not want me to buy anything for VDay but some tile to put up in boys bathroom that she tore down.  I still ordered a pair of shoes that were on sale from Neiman's.  They came today and woke her up knocking at the door.  She lit into me saying I do not care enough to get her something that is not on sale, and they were out of season and she does not wear brown.

They were brown and black i figured functional and they were open like she always wears.  She said not to get her anything before.  I dont have money to pay bills a month and she is saying I never buy anything full price which is not true.  AT same time, my wife has expensive tastes.  She will not stay in a Hampton Inn or even a Hilton.  She wants $500 handbags...

They were on sale.  It was a pair of Michael Kors heels I thought were nice.  To make matters worse they were on sale for $78 from $180.  She just called and lit into me.  The sad part is I am the only person who buys her anything besides my mother who she also hates.  Ironically, in the past year I can think of a small paperback book and a pair of underwear she purchased me and thats it.  Not that I care.  Honestly, its the thought that counted.

Maybe I am wrong and I don ot know here.  I planned on getting more.  I had us reservations for a meal that would cost us probably $250 to $300 without alcohol.  She says it means I do not care.  I do not care enough to buy full price.  Now I did buy her some full price stuff that she liked at house but they were a bathroom caddy and some gloves etc but all of that was pretty cheap.  I do not understand how a more expensive item on sale is not as good as the full price cheaper smaller item.

Also, apparantly there is Michael Kors and Michael by Michael Kors which are ___.  I was not aware of that but I suppose if I cared I would be aware.

I feel horrible.  My phone is turned off.  Clients cant find me now, but neither can she.  I feel sick.  I am not going to kill myself, but I really wish I was non existant.  I cannot get anything right.

[formflier]

 

How long did you stay on the phone with her when she called to "light into you"?

[momtara]

She lit into me saying I do not care enough to get her something that is not on sale, and they were out of season and she does not wear brown.

Now, come on.  You did your best in everything.  You are not a mind reader.  Honestly what she said is MEAN.  I don't know Michael Kors from a Michael Kors knockoff from Kmart.  Most people would be happy if you did anyting.  Do you see how the more you try to do, the worse it gets?  You are giving her ammo.  Don't respond to her.  Don't answer when she calls.  She will calm down.  And please don't kill yourself!  Yout hink that's better than walking away, or setting boundaries or refusing to answer the call.

I know what it's like - you try not to respond, then worry about what she will say or do if you don't respond.  But really this has to stop.  It takes a while to learn.

Stop giving her ammo, please!  If she says she doesn't want anything, don't get anything, or do something small.  $250+ on a meal?  Michael Kors shoes?  NO ONE has a husband that generous, except maybe a Trump.  Her priorities are out of whack and you are so used to being beaten over the head that you have lost perspective.

The most I've ever gotten on V-Day is Russel Stover chococlates and I was grateful that someone made an effort.  I would hate for someone to spend money trying to get a name brand, and really, it is all SUBJECTIVE what someone likes. 

My exH used to get angry about gifts and sometimes even throw them in the trash.  It was pretty mean.  Anyone who makes an effort to try to get you something, that's what the real gift is.  And you, my friend, are a gift.

[ForeverDad]

Do you see how the more you try to do, the worse it gets?  You are giving her ammo.

AKA negative engagement

Stop giving her ammo, please! ... .Her priorities are out of whack and you are so used to being beaten over the head that you have lost perspective.

Stop doubting yourself... .

Stop questioning yourself... .

Stop being so anxious to parse her oppositional, blaming, fault-finding, emotional claims for crumbs of reality... .

PS - I think Esther Price Fine Chocolates are the best, especially the opera creams!

The new topic is here:  I just got this email from my wife.

[momtara]

I think you need time off from talking to her.  you don't have to tell her.  just take a half day or day from communicating.  or see how few sentences you can do in reply (and make them 'I love you and I need to work to support us' or something simple no one could regret later) and make it a challenge to not get sucked in.

if she was into this suicide pact idea, what about the kids? what if she drags them in? doesn't sound like a healthy environment.

does anyone here think HH should talk to someone at the school?

HH don't admit anywhere else in writing that you tried to kill yourself.  it sounds like you're much more stable than she is.  if something happened to her, who would watch the kids?  if she was in a hospital for a day or two who would care for them - you'd have to do it.  you wouldn't want her to try to send them back to her exes or whatever.   try not to give her any evidence to use against you. 

[formflier]

I think you need time off from talking to her.  

or at least... .talk much less.  If any abuse or blame starts... .click.

Can you do that HH?