It was suggested I post here

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

ok... I was advised to post on this board from staying and leaving board...

I have several threads with one being

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270982.new#new

where to begin... .

my wife is very dysregulated.  There is a history of her being physically abusive and regularly verablly abusive.  She will basically stalk me at times.  Ignore all boundaries and basically run me over to the point I have no identity.  I have no more hobbies, friends, and she wants me for most part to get rid of my job and family

At same time, she is currently jobless, both her parents died within 24 hours about 6 weeks ago and her best friend turned against her 10 weeks ago.  She is isolated and paranoid.  Constantly kicking me out of the house.  Calls upwards of 85 times one day and yelling at me.  I made two mistakes... listening to it and trying to kill myself to make it stop with a gun that misfired.  She did not care.

she has threatened to cause trouble for those around me with what she knows from me if I do not give into her views.  My mother threatened her the other night to leave me alone or else when she kept calling my work which my mother owns and told me she would never let me see kids again nor talk to them... .

now... as far as legal stuff

She has been out of work for long time.  The house was purchased before we were married but we were living together and dating.  It is in my name.  A house of course she went to remodeling without asking and now we are $60k on credit cards and living on sub flooring.  The car is in my name that she drives because she cannot get anything with her credit, it also has an interlock device from her DWI on it.  All the debt of course is in my name.  She has no income.  I have all the income at about 6 figures.  The kids are the hard part.  Both of them are from previous boyfriends.  I came into the picture when one was 1 and one was 3.  They are 15 and 12 now.  The 1 year old's father is not in his life, does not pay child support, and is not even on birth certificate.  He knows me as his father even though he knows I am not biological.  This means though I would assume I have no custodial rights.  She has threatened to move to Florida with them to take them away from me.

I love my wife deeply very much but everything is wrong I do.  If I go to pick up food from McDonalds and in the Apple Pie Boxes are Strawberry and Cream, she will throw them at me saying i screwed it up like always.  If I take off early from work and get home before my usual time still but traffic slows me up, she will refuse to talk to me cept to yell.  If she asks for nothing for Valentine's Day and I buy her shoes from Neiman Marcus, she will be upset and refuse the gift because they were on sale or off season... or they were only $200 and not $500 so I am cheap (she sometimes will buy me a book at half price books for occasions).  She wants me to be there but its hard because I am literally terrified of her.  I kid you not, I have PTSD from her.  My phone will ring and my heart rate jumps with adrenaline and I panic even when I dont even know its her yet...

At same time, this point in her life is horrible so how much slack do I give?

This is just a fast summary and everything is more complicated than that

[hurthusband]

ok... I was advised to post on this board from staying and leaving board...

I have several threads with one being

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270982.new#new

where to begin... .

my wife is very dysregulated.  There is a history of her being physically abusive and regularly verablly abusive.  She will basically stalk me at times.  Ignore all boundaries and basically run me over to the point I have no identity.  I have no more hobbies, friends, and she wants me for most part to get rid of my job and family

At same time, she is currently jobless, both her parents died within 24 hours about 6 weeks ago and her best friend turned against her 10 weeks ago.  She is isolated and paranoid.  Constantly kicking me out of the house.  Calls upwards of 85 times one day and yelling at me.  I made two mistakes... listening to it and trying to kill myself to make it stop with a gun that misfired.  She did not care.

she has threatened to cause trouble for those around me with what she knows from me if I do not give into her views.  My mother threatened her the other night to leave me alone or else when she kept calling my work which my mother owns and told me she would never let me see kids again nor talk to them... .

now... as far as legal stuff

She has been out of work for long time.  The house was purchased before we were married but we were living together and dating.  It is in my name.  A house of course she went to remodeling without asking and now we are $60k on credit cards and living on sub flooring.  The car is in my name that she drives because she cannot get anything with her credit, it also has an interlock device from her DWI on it.  All the debt of course is in my name.  She has no income.  I have all the income at about 6 figures.  The kids are the hard part.  Both of them are from previous boyfriends.  I came into the picture when one was 1 and one was 3.  They are 15 and 12 now.  The 1 year old's father is not in his life, does not pay child support, and is not even on birth certificate.  He knows me as his father even though he knows I am not biological.  This means though I would assume I have no custodial rights.  She has threatened to move to Florida with them to take them away from me.

I love my wife deeply very much but everything is wrong I do.  If I go to pick up food from McDonalds and in the Apple Pie Boxes are Strawberry and Cream, she will throw them at me saying i screwed it up like always.  If I take off early from work and get home before my usual time still but traffic slows me up, she will refuse to talk to me cept to yell.  If she asks for nothing for Valentine's Day and I buy her shoes from Neiman Marcus, she will be upset and refuse the gift because they were on sale or off season... or they were only $200 and not $500 so I am cheap (she sometimes will buy me a book at half price books for occasions).  She wants me to be there but its hard because I am literally terrified of her.  I kid you not, I have PTSD from her.  My phone will ring and my heart rate jumps with adrenaline and I panic even when I dont even know its her yet...

At same time, this point in her life is horrible so how much slack do I give?

This is just a fast summary and everything is more complicated than that

[maxen]

hi hurthusband. we've got lots of experienced posters here and you'll get good support!

from a legal point of view it appears from what you wrote there is much you can do to protect yourself. first though, are you committed to staying in the r/s?

[hurthusband]

hi hurthusband. we've got lots of experienced posters here and you'll get good support!

from a legal point of view it appears from what you wrote there is much you can do to protect yourself. first though, are you committed to staying in the r/s?

i want to stay in the relationship, but I am not so sure she does and I am getting kicked out and told to come back... I literally travel every day with a sack fo toothbrush/paste, comb, deordarant, and meds every single day.  I have no clue where I will be at end of the day.

I am just worn out.  I want us to work things out, but its killing us both

[livednlearned]

Have you thought about doing a therapeutic separation?

[Boss302]

My first thought is this: you need to take these three sentences to heart... .

1. YOU are worth saving. 2. YOU are worth being loved normally. 3. YOU are entitled to as much happiness as you can grab. [/color]

If you're anything like I was, then right now, the man that is YOU has ceased to exist. You only exist to serve HER needs. That sounds harsh, but believe me - I speak from experience. Your situation sounds somewhat like mine, and my journey back to being me, versus some kind of dead-stare servant, started with grabbing onto those three beliefs and holding on to them for dear freaking life.

I'll tell you a little story that I think you might be able to identify with.

My uBPDx literally could not handle me being out of the house when she was really disregulated, even to work, and our financial situation was awful. I literally had to work or my family was not going to survive. So I took a job... .and she began calling there multiple times telling me I had to come home, that she was going to harm the kids, etc. I had to keep on working and just pray nothing bad was going to happen (it didn't). Several years later, I had another job that I was very dissatisfied with, and I ended up losing it. This was in 2008 and I worked in the mortgage business, so my prospects of getting another job even remotely as well paying as mine were almost non-existent. Things weren't all that much better than they had been a few years before financially for us. And I remember uBPDx called her friend and said, "I'm so happy, I have my husband back."

Think about for a second. Despite the fact - which she knew - that I was facing a LONG stretch of unemployment, with all the bad financial stuff we had going on, she was happy... .because she had me back at home, where she wanted me.

This is what you're dealing with here - utter, complete, resolute irrationality. BPDs don't care about consequences. They only care about what makes them happy in any given moment. And what makes them happy changes from moment to moment, as you know. That's why this disorder is so often confused with bipolar.

Therefore, no matter what you give this woman - no matter how many jobs you sacrifice for her, no matter how much time you spend with her, no matter how many babies you make with her (see below for more on this), no matter what you do for or give her, it will NEVER EVER BE ENOUGH. And it's not because she's merely selfish or a b___ - it goes FAR beyond that. And you can get selfish or b___y people to change if the consequences are bad enough. But there will be no consequence bad enough to make your wife change unless she commits to changing. BPDs' emotions are such a swirl that they literally have absolutely no idea what they need beyond whatever emotion is racing its way through their disregulated brains at any given moment. And there are so many moments as a result that you might as well try to contain a tornado.  This is why BPD is so often misdiagnosed as rapid shifting bipolar (uBPDx had that diagnosis at one point) but bipolar can largely be contained with medication. BPD can't.

Nothing you can do for her will make her happy. Believe me, I tried. And when I couldn't try any more and still keep my sanity, I left... .at which point she shifted my job on to my kids. Your wife has to make herself happy, and I wish her well with that... .but you need to consider what to do if she doesn't do that.

In the end, I had to refocus on me, and what I needed, and those three items above in red were the catalysts for doing that. In my case, uBPDx wasn't committed to my happiness, and I had to leave her to save myself, and by doing so, save my children too. You may decide to leave, or you may decide to stay, but either way, the beginning of making your life better is taking care of YOU and letting go of taking care of HER, and it won't happen until you really, truly commit to yourself. Begin loving YOURSELF. You're allowed to do that.

And start with some basic boundaries:

1) You are NOT required to stay on the phone with her all day at work. Tell her you won't accept calls anymore unless they're bonafide emergencies, and stick to that. Your work is yours, not hers. She isn't providing, so you have to. If she can't handle that, then that's a job for her therapist. If she persists, have her number blocked from the switchboard. You may even want to let your boss know what's going on; he might be able to help you. Tell her she needs to start emailing you, versus calling, and reserve the right to not respond to the emails unless they're a bonafide emergency.

2) DO NOT under any circumstances have any kids with her, for two reasons: a) she's so disregulated right now that she would be a horrific mother, and b) you end up divorcing a BPD wife, it will be hard as hell under the best of circumstances, and those circumstances will get infinitely more difficult if you two have kids together. If she's anything like my uBPDx, she's fully capable of using her children like a battleaxe against you.

3) Make sure you have a legal and emotional support system in place. That's why some peace at work might be so good for you - you can work on that stuff while you're not at home, come and go as you need to, based on your work arrangement, which will make far more sense than your home arrangement.

But for God's sake, start with YOU. That's where the journey to sanity - no matter whether it involves staying or leaving - begins.

Please let us know how you're doing.

[hurthusband]

thanks for relating that story boss.  Certainly some similarities.  My wife is certain extremely talented and gifted.  More so than I am. 

The problem is my mind is manipulated by her quite easily.  I am somebody who forgives and forgets quite easily.  I do not stay upset with anyone for very long... i am talking hours tops.  This is about the worst thing with wife

Separation is tricky. I have no friends and the only family i have in town are

a. sister - who is quite manipulative and tends to cause trouble between people to benefit herself.  She is caring, but she does not see the consequences of this behavior and is quite hot headed.  Not somebody to be around

b. my grandparents - just found out one has 2 months to live and can be incredibly demanding while other is an alcoholic.  i cant be a caretaker anymore

c. mother - now this is fine i get along with her fine, but my wife hates her guts and my whole family has basically had enough of my wife beating me up and look to my mother to do something because she always does.  Unfortunately, my mother has said things drunk in texts after she found out i was bruised by my wife once and has let down my wife too.  This results in basically my wife hating my mother and having her as a sort of Totem of Evil.  Source of all her problems.  So going to mothers is like i am picking her over my wife. 

the other problem is when i leave she will always find a reason for me to come back and will be nice until 1 am when everything changes.  I am so forgiving and such a sucker i keep falling for it.  I hate seeing my wife hurt.

[ForeverDad]

hi hurthusband. we've got lots of experienced posters here and you'll get good support!

from a legal point of view it appears from what you wrote there is much you can do to protect yourself. first though, are you committed to staying in the r/s?

i want to stay in the relationship, but I am not so sure she does and I am getting kicked out and told to come back... I literally travel every day with a sack fo toothbrush/paste, comb, deordarant, and meds every single day.  I have no clue where I will be at end of the day.

I am just worn out.  I want us to work things out, but its killing us both

Accept reality... .YOU can't work things out.  Because the problem isn't you.  Yes, you're not perfect but neither are we and like you we too failed to make the impossible happen.  She is making IMPOSSIBLE demands and CHANGING them endlessly so that you can NEVER find success or make her happy.  With her it's all about the endless conflict, that endless negative engagement, that endless fault-finding, that endless blame-shifting.

Got it?  It's NOT you!  Once you can sound that down into the depths of your inner self, then you can more easily see ways to escape from your torture chamber.  You can still love her and her children - well, sort of - but it must be from a safe distance.  That DISTANCE is what will save you from your own good intentions, save you from continuing to sacrifice yourself endlessly and dying a death of a million cuts.

Have you read The Bridge?  I mean, really, really read it and deeply pondered its implications?  This is precisely the IMPOSSIBLE DILEMMA she has been placing you in all these years.  Sadly, you will have to let her take ownership of her issues.  Yes... .LET GO.  She's an adult, you can't fix her.

[ForeverDad]

Posts from another thread here, they are discussing precisely the dilemma you have been facing for years.

Thank you for sharing that information. I can relate to that, and I know now that everything I did in trying to repair the relationship actually made it worse, strangely.

Yeah, it's like if you love them too much they like it at first but then it drives them crazy.  Unfortunately I don't think anyone's been able to identify what tightrope to walk to love them but not love them too much -- and the tightrope position would always be changing.

You took the words right out of my mouth!  I always looked in the mirror every day to try and ask myself what I could do better at in our marriage and why I could not figure out what tightrope to walk... .never thinking that on a daily basis that the tightrope position was always changing.

Then I really learned just how much I had to understand and learn when I read "Stop Walking on Egg Shells... ." by Paul Mason and Randi Kreger it was like I had previously been living in a cave and had no idea what was going on!  It showed me that all the extra effort in trying to find the right tightrope was not going to have any kind of impact for positive change.

Did you really ever think that your daily assessment of which was the "Tight Rope de Jour" was accurate and how you were reacting and love them was accurate and working at all?... .or when did you realize that you were facing a no win situation?

[hurthusband]

Yea I read Eggshells... .I thought it would give me a better grasp.  It did for a short while... At same time, it kind of shut me down too

I suppose there is not much I can do... which really is frustrating

[ForeverDad]

I suppose there is not much I can do... which really is frustrating

"I suppose there is not much I can do... ." -- That's accepting reality.

"... .which really is frustrating" -- Depends how you perceive your situation.  Once you realize your limitations, that you can't fix things, that liberates you to consider other options previously viewed as unacceptable.

In other words:  (1) She has consistently refused to make significant improvements in her behaviors.  (2) You have reluctantly accepted that you can't change or fix her.  (3) Knowing she can't or won't improve - doesn't matter which - you are free to change how you will handle the relationship going forward.

Just because she refuses to change doesn't mean you don't have that option.

[Boss302]

I suppose there is not much I can do... which really is frustrating

"I suppose there is not much I can do... ." -- That's accepting reality.

"... .which really is frustrating" -- Depends how you perceive your situation.  Once you realize your limitations, that you can't fix things, that liberates you to consider other options previously viewed as unacceptable.

In other words:  (1) She has consistently refused to make significant improvements in her behaviors.  (2) You have reluctantly accepted that you can't change or fix her.  (3) Knowing she can't or won't improve - doesn't matter which - you are free to change how you will handle the relationship going forward.

Just because she refuses to change doesn't mean you don't have that option.

ABSOLUTELY.

I was once in that place too, feeling responsible for my ex-wife. Even after I divorced her I used to try to shame her into changing her behaviors. Of course, nothing worked.

If nothing else, that brought me to a place of acceptance - that it's not OK for her to do what she's doing, but it's OK for me not to fix her anymore. This is who she is. Nothing I can do will change her. That's easy to do with me, but a lot harder to do when it involves the kids - her behavior is absolutely devastating to them.

Now I preach the same thing to them - accept that she is who she is and you won't change her. Adjust your relationship with her and your expectations accordingly. They will need to "model" what their relationship with her looks like.

It brings a LOT of peace.