sending a letter

[Eco]

I have a email I was going to send to my ex about a few things. I wanted to have you guys look over it and get some opinions on it. im about to go to court so I don't want to make any mistakes by saying anything out of line. my emotions are in this so my head isn't as clear as it should be so im second guessing myself.

I appreciate any advice and opinions, please be brutally honest. thank you

I need to respond by email about a few things. I have good reason to be concerned about the men you bring around our daughter, I don't trust your judgment , you only knew me for 2 weeks when you had me changing (her other daughter) diapers and you had me watching your kids without you around. that was way to soon. I hope you aren't letting these guys do that, shes already confused about things and doesn't need more things to be confused about.




With the measles outbreak don't you think our daughter should get the measles shot? im sure she can get just the measles shot, im worried because she is unprotected and around a lot of kids at daycare. also you told me a few months ago that you had to smack our daughter on the bottom to let her know you were serious when she tried to run into the street. I will not be spanking our daughter ever so I would hope that you wont be spanking her either. its not a good way to discipline in my opinion.




our daughters name hasn't been changed at the drs office yet whats the holdup? is it changed on her ss card yet?




That was very cruel to our daughter to make her choose between your bear and mine on thursday, she clearly wanted both bears but you pressured her into giving mine back to me. how do you think that makes her feel? she should be able to have both bears anytime if it helps her. then you took it one step further by not wanting me to leave her bear from me at the daycare. the director said it was fine, all this did was show how spiteful you are and that you will do anything to try and hurt me even if it hurts our daughter in the process. Its clear that you are trying to alienate our daughter from me, you don't want her to get any extra time with me even if its through a stuffed animal I gave her. she needs more time with me because she is having a hard time when its time to bring her back to you on the weekends, she cried for a good 10 minutes when it was time to go this last weekend. Like I said before she doesn't want to give either of us up and she has to be away from me the longest. that was the whole reason I took her to make that bear so it could maybe help her when she is away.  if you act this way about a stuffed animal I can only imagine the other ways you try and alienate me from her that I don't know about.   




im a good father to our daughter and a good mother would recognize that and encourage the relationship but all you do is stand in the way, criticize, and block it at every chance you get. one of many examples of this is when you had me pay half for our daughters gymnastics and I told you I wanted to attend the class which you had no problems with but after I paid you told me that if I showed up you would take our daughter out of class and leave with her. I said it before but its a shame that you stand in the way of our daughter getting to see me and her brother more  and you would rather a daycare watch our daughter then her own father. she would benefit from that but you choose to let your hatred towards me to get in the way and that isn't in her best interest,  she has a good father who is willing to be involved more then what the court has ordered, why block that? you treat me totally different then the other dads, you don't think she wont and may already notice that? it only hurts her.




its to bad you cant co parent with me for our daughters sake, that's the point I was trying to make about me and my sons mom, we communicate like parents should and she doesn't hold a grudge against me like you do because that only hurts the kids involved. and as far as being in contempt of the court order you have been already I don't need to try and find reasons because you do that on your own and right from the beginning. I could have gone back to court 8 months ago but I decided to give it time to improve but all that's happened is the same abusive behavior against me by you. just recently telling me that i don't love our daughter right in front of her then telling me to f@!# off. that's a horrible thing  for her to hear.  I could go on but its pointless I think, until you take responsibility for your actions nothing will change.

[scraps66]

It's good to document all of this stuff.  However, I don't think this will help mother at all.  This may give her a bunch of targets to work with and around.  Sort of like you're tipping your hand.  Plus, this is way too long to send to a BP and I would take a pass through and reword all the "you" statements and turn them into "I" statements.  Granted mother likely speaks like this, but I try to not do this anymore.

It's funny, I'm going through court-ordered coparent counseling after five years with a custody order.  My ex speaks with a lot of "you" statements and always in an accusatory tone.  This was one of the very first things our first marriage counselor taught us, or I guess me, about and how not to speak to each other.  Leopard's don't change their spots.

[livednlearned]

Hi eco,

You're doing a really good job focusing on your D, and despite what is a truly tough situation, you've held things together. I think it's wise to double check urges like this when you feel emotional.

Me, I would not send the email/s.

Lesson 2 on the board has a lot of stuff about communication. One of them is:

Communication: Overview

Many of us have experienced great frustrations when trying to communicate while co-parenting with a BPD parent.  It's been long established that individuals with BPD can become so consumed by their own emotions/self interests that communications become challenged, confused, and interpreted in the worst way. A pwBPD has to have trust reinforced and fears of inadequacy soothed before they can listen or hear. The non-BP validates that the feeling are real feelings (not that they justified). The non-BP then shifts the discussion on what the real issue is and what can be done about it. These tools put a lot of responsibility of the non-BP to bridge the communication/emotional inadequacy.  The assumption is that that non-BP is the emotional caretaker in these situations. Read more.

Learning to validate someone who feels as deeply inadequate as your ex likely does is super tough stuff. And it's made more difficult because you two aren't in a relationship anymore. But it's how things have to be if you hope your ex will be able to take in what you're saying. Her defenses are way too strong against blame.

In terms of the legal stuff, you don't want to put anything in print that comes across as blaming, and this has some of those features like scrapps was pointing out.

Also in the same lesson is a thing on Hostile Communication written by Randi Kreger (she co-wrote Splitting with Bill Eddy):

Hostile e-mail has also become huge in family court, as a document used to show someone’s bad behavior. While you are encouraged to save copies of hostile e-mail sent to you, it is very important that you not send hostile e-mails to anyone. They will be used against you

.

There are some good guidelines in that article about how to write emails following the BIFF format.

For things like this:

our daughters name hasn't been changed at the drs office yet whats the holdup? is it changed on her ss card yet?

You might want to reframe as:

Ex,

Please let me know what I can do to help change D's SS card so that she has my name as we agreed. I'd like to get this taken care of by x date. If you are not able to do it by then, please send me the documents and I can take care of it. Once that's done, we can get her name changed at the doctor's office.

Eco

[livednlearned]

For this, maybe something more brief and to the point:

With the measles outbreak don't you think our daughter should get the measles shot? im sure she can get just the measles shot, im worried because she is unprotected and around a lot of kids at daycare. also you told me a few months ago that you had to smack our daughter on the bottom to let her know you were serious when she tried to run into the street. I will not be spanking our daughter ever so I would hope that you wont be spanking her either. its not a good way to discipline in my opinion.

Ex,

I'm concerned about D contracting measles since she has not received the vaccine and is unprotected at daycare. I spoke to the pediatrician and her recommendation is to vaccinate. I respect your values about vaccinations, although the recent outbreak changes how I feel about this particular choice. Please let me know xyz so we can be proactive and keep D healthy.

Eco

That was very cruel to our daughter to make her choose between your bear and mine on thursday, she clearly wanted both bears but you pressured her into giving mine back to me. how do you think that makes her feel? she should be able to have both bears anytime if it helps her. then you took it one step further by not wanting me to leave her bear from me at the daycare. the director said it was fine, all this did was show how spiteful you are and that you will do anything to try and hurt me even if it hurts our daughter in the process. Its clear that you are trying to alienate our daughter from me, you don't want her to get any extra time with me even if its through a stuffed animal I gave her. she needs more time with me because she is having a hard time when its time to bring her back to you on the weekends, she cried for a good 10 minutes when it was time to go this last weekend. Like I said before she doesn't want to give either of us up and she has to be away from me the longest. that was the whole reason I took her to make that bear so it could maybe help her when she is away.  if you act this way about a stuffed animal I can only imagine the other ways you try and alienate me from her that I don't know about. 

Ex,

I don't see D as often as I would like, and wanted her to have a stuffed animal as a way to stay connected. I do not understand why she is not allowed to have the bear at your place, although I respect that this poses an issue for you. I spoke to the daycare and they are happy to let D keep the bear there. I am concerned after the episode last week that you will try to remove the bear again. Please let D play with the bear when she is at daycare and do not remove it. I know D feels secure and loved when she can cuddle with her animals from both of us.

Eco

[Eco]

It's good to document all of this stuff.  However, I don't think this will help mother at all.  This may give her a bunch of targets to work with and around.  Sort of like you're tipping your hand.  Plus, this is way too long to send to a BP and I would take a pass through and reword all the "you" statements and turn them into "I" statements.  Granted mother likely speaks like this, but I try to not do this anymore.

It's funny, I'm going through court-ordered coparent counseling after five years with a custody order.  My ex speaks with a lot of "you" statements and always in an accusatory tone.  This was one of the very first things our first marriage counselor taught us, or I guess me, about and how not to speak to each other.  Leopard's don't change their spots

thanks for the advice, I felt like my  email was to emotionally charged so im glad I ran it by for opinions first. im going to rewrite the email

You're doing a really good job focusing on your D, and despite what is a truly tough situation, you've held things together. I think it's wise to double check urges like this when you feel emotional.

Me, I would not send the email/s.

Lesson 2 on the board has a lot of stuff about communication. One of them is:

Communication: Overview

Quote

Many of us have experienced great frustrations when trying to communicate while co-parenting with a BPD parent.  It's been long established that individuals with BPD can become so consumed by their own emotions/self interests that communications become challenged, confused, and interpreted in the worst way. A pwBPD has to have trust reinforced and fears of inadequacy soothed before they can listen or hear. The non-BP validates that the feeling are real feelings (not that they justified). The non-BP then shifts the discussion on what the real issue is and what can be done about it. These tools put a lot of responsibility of the non-BP to bridge the communication/emotional inadequacy.  The assumption is that that non-BP is the emotional caretaker in these situations. Read more.

Learning to validate someone who feels as deeply inadequate as your ex likely does is super tough stuff. And it's made more difficult because you two aren't in a relationship anymore. But it's how things have to be if you hope your ex will be able to take in what you're saying. Her defenses are way too strong against blame.

In terms of the legal stuff, you don't want to put anything in print that comes across as blaming, and this has some of those features like scrapps was pointing out.

Also in the same lesson is a thing on Hostile Communication written by Randi Kreger (she co-wrote Splitting with Bill Eddy):


Quote

Hostile e-mail has also become huge in family court, as a document used to show someone’s bad behavior. While you are encouraged to save copies of hostile e-mail sent to you, it is very important that you not send hostile e-mails to anyone. They will be used against you

.

thanks for the info, I will have to read those links. ive tried in the past to validate her feelings and its been hit or miss, sometimes it works other times it seemed to encourage her abuse

For this, maybe something more brief and to the point:


Quote

With the measles outbreak don't you think our daughter should get the measles shot? im sure she can get just the measles shot, im worried because she is unprotected and around a lot of kids at daycare. also you told me a few months ago that you had to smack our daughter on the bottom to let her know you were serious when she tried to run into the street. I will not be spanking our daughter ever so I would hope that you wont be spanking her either. its not a good way to discipline in my opinion.

Ex,

I'm concerned about D contracting measles since she has not received the vaccine and is unprotected at daycare. I spoke to the pediatrician and her recommendation is to vaccinate. I respect your values about vaccinations, although the recent outbreak changes how I feel about this particular choice. Please let me know xyz so we can be proactive and keep D healthy.

Eco


Quote

That was very cruel to our daughter to make her choose between your bear and mine on thursday, she clearly wanted both bears but you pressured her into giving mine back to me. how do you think that makes her feel? she should be able to have both bears anytime if it helps her. then you took it one step further by not wanting me to leave her bear from me at the daycare. the director said it was fine, all this did was show how spiteful you are and that you will do anything to try and hurt me even if it hurts our daughter in the process. Its clear that you are trying to alienate our daughter from me, you don't want her to get any extra time with me even if its through a stuffed animal I gave her. she needs more time with me because she is having a hard time when its time to bring her back to you on the weekends, she cried for a good 10 minutes when it was time to go this last weekend. Like I said before she doesn't want to give either of us up and she has to be away from me the longest. that was the whole reason I took her to make that bear so it could maybe help her when she is away.  if you act this way about a stuffed animal I can only imagine the other ways you try and alienate me from her that I don't know about. 

Ex,

I don't see D as often as I would like, and wanted her to have a stuffed animal as a way to stay connected. I do not understand why she is not allowed to have the bear at your place, although I respect that this poses an issue for you. I spoke to the daycare and they are happy to let D keep the bear there. I am concerned after the episode last week that you will try to remove the bear again. Please let D play with the bear when she is at daycare and do not remove it. I know D feels secure and loved when she can cuddle with her animals from both of us.

thanks, those sound much better

[Eco]

thanks for all the advice and time I really appreciate the help

[livednlearned]

The other issues, like who she brings around the kids, and spanking, and not letting you watch your D's gymnastics (even though you paid) can probably be dealt with by your L.

It never worked for me to discuss things that had already happened. I had to write short, polite emails about things coming up, with one event only, a proposal for how to resolve it, followed by what I would do if I didn't hear back from him within a certain time period. Or, more often, if he didn't respond. "If I haven't heard from you by day/date, I will go ahead and do xyz."

[Eco]

The other issues, like who she brings around the kids, and spanking, and not letting you watch your D's gymnastics (even though you paid) can probably be dealt with by your L.

It never worked for me to discuss things that had already happened. I had to write short, polite emails about things coming up, with one event only, a proposal for how to resolve it, followed by what I would do if I didn't hear back from him within a certain time period. Or, more often, if he didn't respond. "If I haven't heard from you by day/date, I will go ahead and do xyz."

great ideas thanks