Police Harassment Charge

[Restored2]

Someone invited me to attend a Super Bowl football event for guys at a community facility in my ex-girlfriends neighborhood.  I happened to run into her 15 year old son at this same event, so I pleasantly greeted him.  He and I had a great relationship together.  Shortly thereafter, I see him pointing me out to the leader of the facility, whom I had met before around our dating relationship.  I was then approached by this same leader, being informed that my ex-girlfriend had talked to him over the phone to address her concern of feeling unsafe with me around her children.  There was never an issue of me being unsafe either around her or her children ever, so this is completely unwarranted.  I actually used to drive her children around in a vehicle by myself, which included her 18 year old daughter.  This same leader banned me to not return to his community facility in the future, as my ex-girlfriend and children are involved there.  I agreed to comply and left.  

The following day I receive a phone call from the police telling me that they were calling on behalf of my ex-girlfriend to criminally charge me with harassment.  I have never been contacted by the police before and I do not have a restraining order or criminal record either.  Making this harassment charge another extreme overreaction and a false allegation against me by her.  I have been in shock and disbelief that she would ever do this to me.  

Any advice on how I should respond/counteract on this?  

[Mike-X]

Have you contacted a lawyer?

[Restored2]

Yes, I have contacted a lawyer.  Just wondering if there is any other insights/advice from people on this end who can provide another angle/perspective.

[Jessica84]

What kind of advice are you looking for? This is not a BPD thing. This is now a legal matter. Please, protect yourself. Do not contact your ex or anyone in her family. I'm glad you've talked to a lawyer. Do not talk to the police again without a lawyer present. Remember, anything you say can and will be used against you. Harassment charges can turn into assault or even sexual assault charges. Sorry, don't mean to scare you. Too familiar with false allegations.

I am so sorry you are going thru this.

[enlighten me]

I would get your facts together.

FIrst speak to the friend that invited you and get them to confirm this fact. Which proves you didnt go there off of your own back.

Then get any witnesses who saw the Interaction with her son to confirm that it was just a friendly hello and nothing more malicious. That you bumped into him and didnt seek him out. Also their opinion on how he reacted to seeing you. Was he pleased or scared? If he was pleased to see you then it shows he isnt scared of you.

This will show a picture that may show her overeaction.

[drummerboy]

I was hit with a restraining order because I contacted my ex to tell her that I had tested positive to an STD, she claimed that I was "emotionally abusing" by passing on this info.

Do not contact her or her family or her friends, glad that you have seen an attorney. Never be surprised at what these people can do after a r/s is over.

[Mike-X]

Yes, I have contacted a lawyer.  Just wondering if there is any other insights/advice from people on this end who can provide another angle/perspective.

Are you searching for reasons why she might have done this?

[drummerboy]

Here's my perspective on the BPD smear campaign. We meant a lot to them, if they feel you abandoned them and especially if they did the dumping, on a rational level their actions don't make any sense. For them to make sense of dumping someone they loved (however a BPD ever loves) they have to come to hate you, otherwise nothing makes any sense to them. Think about it, their thinking is: I loved them, they were ab great person, they engulfed me, I feared abandonment so I dumped them but now I have to twist things around so I hate them.

My ex had no reason to hate me, on our last day together she talked about always wanting me as a best friend because she could not imagine her life without me in it. But now she totally hates me, hates me harder than anyone has ever hated me, that's how she makes sense of ending the r/s. I hope this makes sense.

Yes, I have contacted a lawyer.  Just wondering if there is any other insights/advice from people on this end who can provide another angle/perspective.

Are you searching for reasons why she might have done this?

[JRT]

Here's my perspective on the BPD smear campaign. We meant a lot to them, if they feel you abandoned them and especially if they did the dumping, on a rational level their actions don't make any sense. For them to make sense of dumping someone they loved (however a BPD ever loves) they have to come to hate you, otherwise nothing makes any sense to them. Think about it, their thinking is: I loved them, they were ab great person, they engulfed me, I feared abandonment so I dumped them but now I have to twist things around so I hate them.

My ex had no reason to hate me, on our last day together she talked about always wanting me as a best friend because she could not imagine her life without me in it. But now she totally hates me, hates me harder than anyone has ever hated me, that's how she makes sense of ending the r/s. I hope this makes sense.

Yes, I have contacted a lawyer.  Just wondering if there is any other insights/advice from people on this end who can provide another angle/perspective.

Are you searching for reasons why she might have done this?

No truer words... .the more that they loved you, the more that they will hate you after they split you and paint you black. Mine blocked me from contact... .I called her after a several months from an unblocked hotel phone when I attempted to call her. I said 'hello', she hung up and an hour later I got a call from the local cops.

As I understand it, such contact results in a kind of emotional meltdown that they will do ANYTHING desperate to assuage. They are powerless to rationalize it so taking legal action to block the very possibility in the future is a 'logical' step for them. Mine went as far to block me on social media (even unfriending my friends and demanding her friends do the same), phone, text etc. Its incredible. 

[scraps66]

To me this all sounds not by the book.  The police call, after the fact, and they are CHARGING you with harassment?  What was the harassment.  You left without question or incident.  I didn't realize this could happen, after the fact and without the police even being there they can charge you.  Are you certain this was the police and not someone claiming to be the police?

[livednlearned]

Hi Restored2,

What an awful experience to be at an event completely separate from your ex, only to have this happen. You probably feel distressed that things could be this chaotic even after the relationship ended. Is this the first false allegation against you?

EDIT:

To me this all sounds not by the book.  The police call, after the fact, and they are CHARGING you with harassment?  What was the harassment.  You left without question or incident.  I didn't realize this could happen, after the fact and without the police even being there they can charge you.  Are you certain this was the police and not someone claiming to be the police?

Good point! Let's hope it was just a bunch of BS. If not:

I'm not familiar with a criminal charge for harassment, or how the police do that. It sounds like they have formally charged you, so are you now waiting for paperwork to arrive by mail?

If this works like a protective or restraining order, there is often an initial hearing in which only the plaintiff has to appear. Most often, the PO is granted as a protective measure to diffuse potential conflict. You would get a notice to appear in court which is your chance to defend yourself.

Not all people who are BPD are high-conflict. Bill Eddy, who is an expert on high-conflict personalities, says that pwBPD are high-conflict only when they have a negative advocate, a target of blame, and a PD. It sounds like your ex is headed that direction.  

An article I really like that covers this is High-Conflict Family Law Matters and Personality Disorders. It will help you understand how BPD and the legal system mix, and what you (and a lawyer) can do to try and get through this without a lot of damage.

If you're not guilty, the unfortunate things about about a PO or RO is that they are easy to get. If you're the person trying to protect yourself from harassment, it's a completely different view. For you, because it's a false allegation, you have to figure out what happens next. Call a DV hotline -- if you call one that caters to men, they should be familiar with false allegations. Or call a lawyer to consult (probably more effective for now). It often costs $200-$300 to talk to them for an hour, and if you retain them they waive it. It's worth it just to make sure you know how things work. Take notes! It's easy to feel stressed and forget what they said. Or, if you meet them in person, think about having someone come with you and write down what the lawyer says.

Then make a plan. You want to make sure you understand the consequences of her not appearing, what kind of proof she needs, what you need to defend yourself, whether this becomes a part of your permanent record, what type of harassment charge is being alleged, what type of alibis can help you.

I've been in court a lot -- 60 filings in 4 years    and saw a lot of stuff pass through court. A lot of this stuff comes down to the magistrate or judge. See if you can learn who will be your judge and what's known about him/her. My judge was good, and tossed out a lot of nutty stuff because the logic was flawed. People with BPD don't tend to think through their stories very carefully and can make 180 degree turns right in front of the judge. They can also be persuasive blamers, so do some legwork to figure out how things work. Information is your best friend right now.

 

[scraps66]

Could this just be projection gone too far?  Filing false harassment charges IS harassment.

I've seen this work in weird ways, my ex cheated on her first husband.  I have e-mails going back and forth between them deciding who was going to file for divorce.  Ex filed for a fault divorce claiming the husband was cheating.  This was the most crystal clear example of projection I had at the time.

[Restored2]

Thank you for all of the replies.  Much appreciated.

Jessica84: Actually it is "BPD thing", that has turned towards a legal matter.  Thank you for the warnings.  I am seeking advice on how best to protect myself with drawing a line in the sand here.  Wondering if there is a way to put something on file with the police that would indicate her undiagnosed BPD traits.  Also, wondering if a legal charge against her by me of false allegations or otherwise would be beneficial for me.

enlightenme: Good advice on the witness statements.  Her son looked quite pleased to see me with offering a smile, showing no signs of being scared whatsoever.

drummerboy: What a horrible experience your ex put you through.  My first mistake was to underestimate her and what she could do to me.  Interesting perspective you share.  It's so unfortunate that your ex put you through the hate ringer the way that she is.  For me, she was the one who abruptly broke up with me, ran away from me and blocked me out.  She had told me towards the beginning of our relationship that she only wanted to contribute to my life and not complicate it.  Somehow that got switched around on me.  It really is difficult to make sense out of the senselessness of it all.  

Mike-X: I would like to know why she is doing this to me, when she knows that I have never done anything to harm her or her children ever.  :)uring our relationship she claimed that I treated her like a princess and that I treated her children very well too.  She also thanked me for loving her in her unloveliness, which I still have in text messages.

JRT: It is incredible what these BPD people can put us through.  It's very unfortunate that you had to experience the same kind of drastic police measures, along with the other blockages that you did.  Interestingly, I hear that it is not unusual for these BPD people to make contact to reconcile a relationship sometime down the road after they have called the police on this same person.  

scraps66: Nothing seems by the book here.  Yes, the police called the following day after the fact, did not specify what the harassment was and I left without question/incident.  The female police constable was extremely aggressive over the phone to me.  She claimed that she had evidence to charge me and she did not want to hear my side of the story.  I was told that I had 1.5 hours to meet with the police or a warrant for my arrest would be immediately issued.  When I said that I needed to discuss with a lawyer for legal advice, she responded that she would give me a phone book to contact a lawyer.  I informed her that I could arrange meeting with her in a couple of days.  Her response was that I was being non-compliant and that her notes would state as such, which would not bode well for me when I stood before a judge in court.  The call ended with this constable telling me that she would call me back the following week, as it appears that she had some time off.  That would have been last week and I have not heard back from this constable.  Another ex-police officer friend of mine went into the police station and spoke to the staff sergeant who confirmed that this is all legitimate.  You make a good point about this possibly being "projection gone too far".  Maybe I should look at charging her with harassment in this... . 

livednlearned: Thank you for providing me with the advice and legal article link that you did.  It has been an awful experience for me.  I have felt extremely distressed by it all.  To the point of me physically shaking in shock from the entire ordeal for days on end.  I have not been formally charged, but I am in the police system as a result of this allegation and it could still be under investigation.  What is a ":)V hotline"?

[livednlearned]

 livednlearned: Thank you for providing me with the advice and legal article link that you did.  It has been an awful experience for me.  I have felt extremely distressed by it all.  To the point of me physically shaking in shock from the entire ordeal for days on end.  I have not been formally charged, but I am in the police system as a result of this allegation and it could still be under investigation.  What is a ":)V hotline"?

DV hotline: is domestic violence hotline. In the US, most of the hotlines obviously cater to women victims. But a growing number have expertise dealing with male victims, and same gender DV. If you call a national hotline, they may patch you through somewhere local. You want to ask if there is anyone with experience dealing with male victim abuse. You're the target of a false allegation and have some questions, etc. I'm recommending it because it's a free resource and you may hit the jackpot and find someone who can give you good counsel on how to respond to police, etc. Also, in the Duluth model of DV, which was developed for female victims, there is a wedge for "male entitlement/abuse of privileges." In the male victim version, that wedge is "manipulation of the legal system." So people who understand male DV will (hopefully) understand why this is abusive. Unfortunately, not all DV hotlines are that enlightened, which is why it can be hit or miss. Your best option is to get a good lawyer who doesn't -- and this is important -- tell you to admit to something you didn't do.

Harassment is not usually the same as domestic violence, though. It's strange that you haven't been told what the nature of the harassment is. Definitely get a lawyer -- especially since the officer who talked to you said that you were being non-compliant.

[enlighten me]

I would be tempted to put in a complaint about the officers attitude to you. From what you said she was hostile and biased.

Its one thing that sickens me how people automatically take the womans side without hearing both sides or even paying attention to the facts.

[Restored2]

Livenlearned: Thank you for clarifying.  I reside in Canada and can look into the domestic violence hotline on this side of the border.  It does appear to be "manipulation of the legal system" against me.  It is all very strange to me.  This aggressive female constable has instilled no confidence in me feeling safe to approach the police whatsoever.

enlightenme: I fully intend to put in a complaint against this aggressive female police constable.  She was beyond biased.  She is a female police officer that may have some BPD issues of her own to deal with.

[JRT]

I would be tempted to put in a complaint about the officers attitude to you. From what you said she was hostile and biased.

Its one thing that sickens me how people automatically take the womans side without hearing both sides or even paying attention to the facts.

It was incredible when the cop called me as well: female cops spoke to me with pronounced prejudice and bias; she had already convicted me and it was not by making a phone call. She spoke to me almost as if I was routinely beating her and her death was imminent. She went for it hook line and sinker. The incident marked one of the lowest spots not only of my r/s with her but my entire life.

[enlighten me]

Livenlearned: Thank you for clarifying.  I reside in Canada and can look into the domestic violence hotline on this side of the border.  It does appear to be "manipulation of the legal system" against me.  It is all very strange to me.  This aggressive female constable has instilled no confidence in me feeling safe to approach the police whatsoever.

enlightenme: I fully intend to put in a complaint against this aggressive female police constable.  She was beyond biased.  She is a female police officer that may have some BPD issues of her own to deal with.

Or maybe she has been in or witness to abuse and is reacting to that. Either way it doesnt justify being judge and executioner on one persons say so.

[livednlearned]

U.S. and Canada: 1-888-7HELPLINE (1-888-743-5754)

Men reported that their women partners made false accusations against them, which included that he hit or beat her, that a restraining order was filed against him under false pretenses, or that he physically and/or sexually abused the children. These findings are congruent with a previous study that showed that approximately 50% of men victims of IPV stated that their partners gave false information to the court system in order to gain custody of the children or to obtain a restraining order (Hines et al., 2007). These findings are also consistent with a study of families undergoing custody disputes in the courts (Johnston, Lee, Olesen, & Walters, 2005), which showed that 21% of women made allegations of physical child abuse against their husbands, 23% of sexual child abuse, and 55% of IPV. Only 6%, 6%, and 41% of the accusations, respectively, were substantiated by the courts. (This study also showed similar rates of accusations and substantiations by men against their wives.)

IPV = intimate partner violence. I wanted to include this here because the courts do not substantiate all of the claims. It feels awful to be the target of a false allegation, but with a good lawyer, you stand a chance to have it dismissed. And like I said before, your ex may not even follow through. It takes resources to keep this stuff going.

[scraps66]

Something smells really fishy.  Is it possible ex knows a constable and called in a favor?  I don't know any officers that would have behaved this way.  The few times my ex "invited" the cops over, they were stearn and professional. 

[Restored2]

JRT: I can totally relate with you, as this incident is marked as a lower than low spot relationally and for my entire life.  

enlightenme: It is quite possible that this female constable is reacting to what she herself has experienced and continues to experience on a day to day basis.  She most certainly does not have the right to jump to conclusions the way that she has.  Apparently, the police are taking romantic relationship matters to a higher level of protection for the complainant due to assaults and murders.  Unfortunately, this can result in false allegations involving skewed thinking from fears and phobias of a BPD person.

livenlearned: Thank you for following up with the helpline phone number and statistics.  Very interesting findings provided here.  Your encouraging words are a breath of fresh air too.  

scraps66: I applaud you for your strong sniffer of something smelling really fishy here.  It was anything but professional.  My ex does know a male police officer that could have called in a favor.  The police complaint is registered on file though.

[ForeverDad]

Another ex-police officer friend of mine went into the police station and spoke to the staff sergeant who confirmed that this is all legitimate.

So, has a report been filed?  Did the ex-officer or your lawyer find out what precisely the allegations was?

Good that you have witnesses, that you were invited there.  They could speak up and verify your account of events.  Be aware that them writing a letter on your behalf may not be enough.  In the USA it is testimony that counts.  As my lawyer would say, "I can't cross-examine a piece of paper."

This may all blow over - or not.  Be aware that many judges will err on the side of caution.  They don't want to read a headline in the paper or a leading story on the 6 pm news that they denied a protection order for someone who just got attacked or murdered.  Yes, a piece of paper might not protect a person from someone determined to do harm, but it can help in most cases.  So they issue a lot of paper.

Why did it happen?  It's hard to say precisely what a pwBPD is thinking.  That's the mental illness, they're not totally rational or 'normal' when their moods, feelings and perceptions get triggered and therefore you can't expect their actions, reactions and overreactions to be rational.  Clearly, the fact that you encountered her son was a triggering event.  Since pwBPD view just about all ended relationships as abusive ones - to avoid having any Blame in the end of the relationship - that may have been a big part of it.

I do agree, stay away from her and her family, especially while this issue is pending.  Don't reach out to her.  If she calls you, document it and decline to continue a conversation.  (Yes, she might call but don't fall for it, she could easily claim you then threatened her or who knows what.)  When I was separating and divorcing my ex, I routinely recorded myself and by extension my conversations to ensure I could prove I wasn't the aggressive or misbehaving person.

Odds are she has done this before to other former relationships, there might be a paper trail in the courts or police records.  If other complaints are on file then those records could be used to support your case that she is prone to make unwarranted allegations for retaliation or punishment rather than for the system's intended purposes.

[Restored2]

ForeverDad: Thank you for sharing your insights and cautions.  I am being given next to no information on any of this, so I am not sure if a report was filed and what precisely the allegations are.  It's the part of the many judges erring on the side of caution that greatly concerns me.  I have very little faith in the court system, especially in regards to such romantic relationship disputes and allegations.  She could not honestly see me as being abusive towards either her or her children.  This is irrational fears/phobias based and has nothing to do with reality. 

[Restored2]

livenlearned: I just phoned the helpline for domestic abuse that you provided.  Unfortunately, due to limited resources the recording stated that they have no one available to speak with.  Are there any other phone numbers in Canada that I could call to speak to a real person who could help me?

[livednlearned]

livenlearned: I just phoned the helpline for domestic abuse that you provided.  Unfortunately, due to limited resources the recording stated that they have no one available to speak with.  Are there any other phone numbers in Canada that I could call to speak to a real person who could help me?

Funding is always an issue  

Maybe this will help you at least see the basic outline for responding to harassment charges in Canada (for how police respond, anyway). A lot will depend on the province where you live.

While this is going on, it's a good idea to make sure you don't end up crossing paths with her. Don't go to her neighborhood or anywhere that she or her kids hang out. Some people here carry phones or other devices to record encounters, as a safety precaution. Although there are laws about "reasonable expectations of privacy." In my state, for example, they are known as one-party consent or two-party consent laws. Some people on the site who have been wrongfully accused will record regardless of the laws so they can show police what happened, and prevent the charge from going forward. It's a good question for a lawyer.

Keep a log of what you do, receipts, in case she makes up something about where you were (when you weren't.) At least until this is over.  

The one positive here is that she didn't do anything until you crossed her radar. That suggests she is a little less high-conflict that the normal high-conflict. It's a toss-up now, however, if she will keep this going.

[Restored2]

livenlearned: Thank you for providing the link on responding to harassment charges in Canada and for the words of wisdom  as a caution.  It is a positive that she has not done anything until I crossed her radar.  She has never shown herself to be high conflict before, but then again I would never have thought her to call the police on me, let alone make accusations of harassment against me.  My concern extends to after the dust has all settled here, if down the road this could be all resurrected again by her with another crossing of her radar.  I would really like to have something on file with the police as my defense and possibly even file a legal charge against her for false allegations or something.

[scraps66]

I'm still not able to get by the phone call charges of harassment.  How is this possible?  And based on the supposition of civilians that appear to not have even been interviewed?   If this was possible my ex would have done this non-stop.

[livednlearned]

I'm still not able to get by the phone call charges of harassment.  How is this possible?  And based on the supposition of civilians that appear to not have even been interviewed?   If this was possible my ex would have done this non-stop.

Victim's rights stuff might be more proactive in Canada? I don't know. Just guessing. But yes, it does seem weird. That's why it's a good idea to call a lawyer. They'll know if this is even normal procedure.

[Restored2]

Scraps66: I don't know.  It's all been a blur of insanity to me.  Are you saying that no threat of being charged for harassment should have happened over the phone by the police?  Maybe the police handle things differently here in Canada, eh?

[enlighten me]

I might have missed it but apart from saying she was a police woman what official contact have you had? Has a police station confirmed the initial contact?

Is it possible that your ex has spoken to her police friend and got them to contact you pretending its an official complaint?