Getting Psych Eval for Court: Advice?

[TakesAVillage]

I'm brand new to this site and cannot express my gratitude enough to those who have already helped, those who put in so many hours to helping others, and the brave community you all are.  

At the suggestion of a few members, I'm learning it's best to divide my very complex situation into little bite-sized bits and post them individually to different boards. So here's my legal bit!

The gist is: I am 2 years out of a separation from a loosely diagnosed BPD partner (never married). We share a 2.5 y/o son together. Since our separation, I have been harassed, antagonized, threatened, falsely accused, and manipulated non-stop, finally turning to the courts for help in March of last year.

Since then, I've been in constant litigation with my ex... .almost exclusively manufactured conflict on his part, but the courts in my county do not have him figured out yet.

My move out was a trigger for his behavior, of course, but nothing compared to what he was to unleash on me when I  a.)filed for a formal parenting plan and b.)started a new relationship.

Since then, only since March 2014, I've been found in contempt (manufactured... .and the judge believed him despite tremendous evidence to the contrary), have been denied an anti-stalking order (the judge literally had him raise his hand and "promise he wouldn't do it again", have been slandered to my friends and colleagues by a website all about me, etc., have had to apologize to family, friends, and even professional mentors for his behavior towards them since our separation, the list goes on, and there is simply no end in sight. Despite 21 hours of court-ordered mediation with two separate judges, my court motions continue to be dismissed in the light of, "This is something you should be able to work out" and again, we are ordered to mediation rather than just getting a final order.

He's on his SIXTH attorney in less than a year (I have my same one) and I've been ineffective in getting help from the courts thus far to put an end to it. He's incredibly smooth (he's a surgeon), charismatic, and appears put together in court (introducing himself as Doctor has a sadly shocking effect).  

I, too, am a professional, very controlled, calm, etc.,  but no match for him. I've already spent almost $45K in legal fees (while he is $12K in support arrears) since initiating a parenting plan (a very generous one with him having 25% custody, before I knew what was really going on) just to get to zero. I've even provided a declaration from my ex-husband with whom I have an unusually harmonious co-parenting relationship singing my praises as a mom and co-parent.

Next on the docket: attempt to have the contempt vacated (March), second court attempt at parenting plan clarification (April), and we await his continued support fight. There WILL be more.

And so, while I've pored through the boards re: law, court, etc., I can't seem to find information (not that it's not there!) about how anyone has successfully gone about getting a court-ordered psychological eval. As we know, he's been informally (no eval, just therapy) diagnosed BPD, but he refuses to make that public (not surprising, I now know).

Do you have any thoughts, ideas, direction, etc., in that vein? As you can imagine, I now document EVERYTHING and have for a year, but just haven't had any success making an argument for a court to order the eval. I've openly offered to release records from our shared therapy sessions and have openly offered to submit to an eval, too.

I'm already tremendously grateful for all of your help, and I truly appreciate anything you have to share on this subject.

[ForeverDad]

It's been said here that judges too often assume that if there is bickering and conflict then it must be the fault of both parents.  And another risk, as you've experienced, is that the misbehaving parent is able to con the professionals initially and their claims are seen as too 'emotionally compelling' and that overwhelms the facts.

Depending on what 'psych eval' means in your court, it may be too little and, in a way, barking up the wrong tree.  What would it mean if he is diagnosed as BPD or some other PD?  (Sounds like he could have some some of the other Cluster B traits, Narcissistic, Histrionic, etc.)  What would court do about a report?  I ask because courts deal with people as they are, doing very little to change them.  Maybe a few Anger Management classes but that's about it.

For example, what if he were an alcoholic?  It means little in court, for all you know the judge could even have a weakness on that score.  The key issue is:  How does that affect the issue at hand?  And the issue at hand is partly about getting the divorce done but long term mostly about the custody and parenting.  Him having been diagnosed might mean something to the court, but probably not much.  What would be more important would be his behaviors.  If he actually drove while intoxicated, had DUI citations or convictions or gasp did so with the children in the vehicle, then that would be vastly more 'actionable' by the court (and perhaps the children's agencies as well).

So the key is... .how do his behaviors affect others?  In divorce, the courts look at the adult behaviors to some extent but give much more attention to the parenting behaviors.  Keep that in mind every time you go to court, see an evaluator, etc, report it all (as time allows) but give more weight to to how the children are affected.

Sadly, court often doesn't see the parenting issue very easily.  Since children can be manipulated or pressured for an event, an interview with a judge can be iffy.  While my son did see a court social worker early on when he was about 4 years old in 2006, it wasn't until he was 11 in 2013 than my ex got him an 'in camera' interview before the magistrate - his Guardian ad Litem (GAL) was there too.

While a typical psych eval can point the professionals in the right direction, it is a custody evaluation - a solid evaluation by a very experienced, reputable and perceptive evaluator - which has the most impact.  (Be forewarned, an easily conned, biased or inexperienced custody evaluator can derail your case.  So when choosing a CE, get the best you can.)  Perhaps your focus needs to shift to a type of evaluation that can more directly impact the long term for both you and your parenting?

... .too often psych evals are a couple tests and a short interview, mine was conducted by a grad student from a local university and it said I suffered from anxiety.  Yeah, no kidding, I could have told anyone that!  Both of us were ordered to take them and the results were ordered to be made available to both lawyers but I never heard whether my then-spouse ever took hers.  (Lesson: Don't hand over anything if you're expecting something similar in return, say "We're ready to EXCHANGE the ordered information."  In other words, don't give away information or your leverage for compliance.)

Later, after I filed for divorce, after mediation failed and after the court's parenting investigation recommended I get more time than the alternate weekends the magistrate had orders (never changed during the 23 month divorce) finally a custody evaluation was ordered.  It included a psych eval such as a few tests but went further and assessed what should be done about custody of my preschooler.

I had a custody evaluator, a very perceptive one, a child psychologist, and he noted the blocking behaviors of my ex and the entire report could have been summarized in these three sentences: "Mother cannot share 'her' child but father can... .  Mother should immediately lose her temporary custody... .  If Shared Parenting is tried and fails then father should get custody... ."

However, it wasn't easy.  Like you, I had allegations made against me, each one getting worse to the point of facing a risk of wearing an orange jumpsuit for years.  Fortunately I was never arrested, but I was the focus of multiple CPS cases over the years.  It's been over 9 years out and I'm still not fully recovered from it all.  (That I'm still here speaks that I haven't yet moved on totally.  Most here fade away once their lives are getting back on track.)

Good thing that what you have is more of a custody evaluation too.  This way you're relatively sure the professional will scrutinize you both, not just you.  Tell the truth, don't hide her past misbehaviors.  (However, be careful about being too forthcoming about your own actions.  For example, my ex would rant and rage into the wee hours of the morning.  I had to work a few hours later and she was still going strong.  She always complained she couldn't 'hear' my calm responses.  One time a raised my voice, boy did that get a gleam in her eye, "Aha, I got him to react!"  And she kept right on ranting and raging, raising my voice didn't stop her one bit.  I didn't mention that incident, I didn't have to volunteer my own actions that she could then twist into "He always screams at me and he even admitted it!"  So be careful, her lawyer and others might be happy to hear you admit "Yes, but... ."  All they may care about is the "Yes" and ignore the scenario.  Be aware.  Beware.

My lawyer always said his first duty to his clients was to sit on them to keep them from indiscriminate talking that could sabotage them.  He always said, If asked a question, answer it in as few words as possible and don't volunteer or go off on a tangent.  He also said it was okay to say "I don't know" or "I don't remember".

Is there anyone out there, who might be able to offer any helpful personal insights or advice for me? Basic "do's or don't's"?

I'm told by my Attorney, that the Psychiatrist assigned to perform this evaluation, is eminently thorough and fair. This is likely to be my last, best hope for any reasonable chance of a fair, accurate assessment. And potentially the restoration of my relationship and visitation between my children and I, (which has been completely severed under order of the court, for the past 8 months). I have not had any degree of contact with them during this time.

As much as you want to scream from the rooftops about her, try to be focused on the truth and especially on the children.  Even if this evaluation does not directly address custody, it should be enough to show that you have no major issues.  (Some minor ones might be suggested, but don't worry about that, (1) we all have minor issues and (2) after all you've gone through it would be surprising not to have some minor issues such as anxiety, PTSD, etc.  None of course would justify blocking all contact with the children for this length of time.

It's astounding that you haven't been allowed at least supervised visits.  Is there some legal reason, such as them wanting you to make a plea deal first?  (We all agree, plea deals are for perps and revolving door criminals, not targeted parents.  If you're innocent then a plea deal is out.)

The problem is that she's had 8 months to try to turn your children against you.  That is a huge concern for me.  At the beginning of the year they wouldn't have said you ever did anything wrong.  Now, though, with you out of the picture and her in full control... .

The children need counselors to assist them in dealing with the dysfunctional family environment.  Courts love counseling.  Your spouse will try to sabotage that or failing that then seek to get a gullible, easily conned counselor to join her ranks of "negative advocates".

In addition to Bill Eddy and his legal resources, another good expert is Richard Warshak, author of Divorce Poison.

The results of this have been incredibly destructive and devastating for me and the kids. I'm also certain that this is having an incredibly negative impact on her life as well.

At this point she is not on your list of priorities.  You, your children and your parenting are the priorities.  Everything else is at the bottom of the list.

My ultimate goal is for us to reach some level of forgiveness and reconciliation, and for her to be properly diagnosed and treated. I'd like to move forward with my life and for her to do so as well.

That makes total nonsense.  Misguided but unrealistic.  She's done everything but put you on the list of top 25 terrorists in the world, trying to ruin your life and your ability to parent and you still think reconciliation is a goal?

Okay, IF she gets into therapy, IF she diligently applies it in her thinking, perceptions, behaviors and entire life, IF she sticks with it for years and not just a few visits, then yes reconciliation is possible.  Otherwise, you can't trust any overtures of peace.  For example, she might be willing to reconcile if your report comes back glowing and you're given the red carpet by the court and she is the one on the outs, but you can't trust it, it would only last until (1) she cycled back into hate mode or (2) she was able to frame you for a new misbehavior.

The majority of us here have wished for our spouses to get diagnosed and start meaningful therapy.  Never happened.  Most courts don't care about diagnostic labels, not unless a high profile murders is involved.  And therapy is so iffy that most courts don't even bother, at most maybe some Anger Management classes.  Courts don't try to change or improve the parents or spouses, they're adults, courts deal with them as they are.

You case seems to have gone to such extremes that maybe you can get her diagnosed but don't count on it.  The reality is that you'll have to deal with her as she is. not as you want her to be.  (If you tell the courts or professionals you want her to change or you want her back, it's possible you could be wrongly painted as a 'controller'.)  A normal person would say, "I've been burned too badly, I need to keep distance between us.  I want to parent but any contact with her needs to be only about the children and structured carefully so I'm not put at risk of being targeted again."

This has been said many times so I don't know if there is an original quote to cite, but I remember on Star Trek the Enterprise's engineer Scotty finally exclaimed to those on the Bridge, speaking of the Klingons trying to keep luring the Enterprise away from Captain Kirk and the landing party with a second false distress signal, "Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me!"

[livednlearned]

Hi TakesaVillage,

I'm sorry you're not getting anywhere with the courts and judges involved in your case. My ex is also high-functioning, and also a respected professional (former trial attorney, now general counsel for a university). Incredibly articulate, persuasive, and smooth in court. I had no traction for a year and a half, although I was also in no emotional or psychological position to assert boundaries in the beginning, and didn't.

Two things make things better for me. One was something N/BPDx did, and the other is something I did.

N/BPDx had some kind of psychotic break -- it was triggered by jealousy based on me flying to another state on Valentine's Day. He figured it was a paramour, and then become convinced this person was the reason I left the marriage. All of this totally pulled out of his butt, none of it true. Except that I flew to another state on Valentine's Day.

The other thing that I did was to depose N/BPDx. Even though he is a former trial lawyer with over a decade of experience doing depositions (he said so many he could not recollect how often he had done them), he fell apart in the deposition. I also have an excellent lawyer. Not only is she good, she is a good trial lawyer. You really need that when you are up against a high-functioning BPD in my experience. She also understood the narcissistic part of my ex, and spoon fed him in the deposition, provided narcissistic supply, and got him to admit things that she then flipped. It was amazing the testimony she got out of him.

Depositions can be expensive. Some states, it seems that it's not common in family court. Your L may not use them, and that would be a good thing to look into.

The psychotic break that my ex had, triggered by the jealousy, coincided with us getting a parenting coordinator. Like FD said, you have to be really careful which third-party professional gets involved in your case. I found a PC who trains PC, and she is first and foremost a child psychologist, so she was more likely going to care about the well-being of my child and that mattered to me (as opposed to PCs who might be lawyers, more concerned about mediating disputes). I don't trust anyone in the forensic therapeutic jurisprudence business -- custody evaluators, psychologists, parenting coordinators -- who have been trained at for-profit universities. They need to be trained somewhere that teaches ethics as a core part of the curriculum, and somewhere that is selective about who they admit to the program. They also have to be someone who didn't go into psychology specifically for forensics. It's a lucrative business. I dug into potential parenting coordinators backgrounds as much as I could and drilled down deep into their credentials. No way would I want someone involved in swaying the court who seemed remotely untrustworthy. The horror stories about corrupt and ineffective parenting coordinators are out there, so you have to have a lot of control in who is selected, whether its a custody evaluator, psychiatric evaluator, parenting coordinator.

The PC ended up asking for a psychiatric evaluation -- so it wasn't technically court ordered. But in my state (which gives PCs an extension of judicial authority), both parties had to sign a PC order that was sworn in by a judge. That meant N/BPDx had to do the evaluation.

One thing to keep in mind is that psychiatrists don't like to make diagnoses for custody disputes. They are at high risk for being sued, and they know that a PD runs the risk of litigation for them. The psychiatrist who did my ex's eval wrote 12 pages after meeting with him 4 times. The closest she came to a diagnosis was "the presence of a personality disorder cannot be ruled out." However, the 12 pages were damaging to N/BPDx, especially in light of things that were already coming out through my documentation and constant court appearances.

The psych eval will only be one data point in the persuasive story you are trying to tell. You need a strategy for the long-game -- hopefully your L is on board. The fact that your L did not understand the degree to which your ex is high conflict suggests that she is learning as she goes. Not great, but also not the end of the world. I think a good client can make a good lawyer, but you have to spend some time really learning what tools are available to you, and putting together a strategy.

For example: Do not allow your lawyer to unilaterally agree to any continuances, no back room dealings between lawyers, no suggestion of mediation unless the mediator is Bill Eddy (if you haven't read Splitting, now is a good time). Or someone who understands how to mediate with a narcissist.

The tricky thing in your case is that a lot of things come down to the judge. It sounds like you have one who wants both parties to work it out. Can you find out how your judges get their appointments? Are they elected? Do they rotate off the bench within a period of time? What does it take to get your case before a different judge?

Something in your strategy is falling apart so try to think through where there are weak spots. If it's your lawyer, consider finding a new one. If it's you (which it was in my case, definitely in the beginning), make sure you have a good therapist. My T asked to talk to my L, and she made sure that in mediation, I did not roll over and give everything away. I gave her permission to do that, and it was necessary. I have way more of a backbone now thanks to this, but back then I needed someone to help me be assertive. I even had to chastise my L for doing something that upset me, and fortunately we managed to work things out and I handled it respectfully enough that she and I became good friends.

Sorry to kitchen sink all this. I'll try to pace myself. I feel for you -- it's hard to go through this stuff when the BPD is high-functioning, has resources, and is highly narcissistic. I have to imagine a surgeon would be all three, just as my ex was.

I got through it, and I'm in a relationship with a great guy. My ex is no longer in my son's life. A lot of things lined up just right, but I also put everything I had into this -- my ex is an alcoholic and that actually helped me, in retrospect. It never made a dent in custody orders, but it did make him very ineffective, distorted his thinking, and dropped his filter so that he couldn't control himself. What ended up happening is that he ended up target the court itself, so the judge began to experience the things I experienced. That's when things started to turn around for me. That means that if you ex does not comply with court orders and becomes in contempt of court, the judge may start to wonder why this guy can't comply. Reasonable people can and do. BPD sufferers won't, and don't.

[TakesAVillage]

LivdnLearned and ForeverDad,

Thank you so much for your experienced, candid, thoughtful replies. They are so helpful, I cannot tell you. To each of you:

ForeverDad: Your insight and caution definitely help me really take a critical look at deciding to "take the lid off this can of worms." I've learned that any perceived transgression against my ex-dBPD is retaliated in varrying degree--. The wrath of harrassment and false accusation I became victim to after I just filed for a parenting plan was astonishing, but nothing compared to what it became after I filed for (and was denied) a harrassment order,  entered a new relationship, relaunched my career, etc.

I am meeting with my attorney next week and will definitely use your insight as part of my discussion with her.

LivdnLearned:Your post kept my mind busy throughout the night. I am actually delighted you gave me the "kitchen sink", as you say... .I need it right now. Your situation sounds so very similar to mine being that your ex is an attorney (and well-appointed, it sounds) to mine being a doctor which automatically brings with it so much glitter.

I was truly naive when I went into court thinking that wouldn't sway the proceedings. It was that first hearing that I realized I was in big trouble.

The psychotic break actually rings quite a bell for me: when my son had his accident, I'd classify what followed as something in that category.

Also spine-chilling for me in your story is the bit where he just couldn't hold it together anymore and people "on the outside" started actually seeing his behavior. This has happened with quite a few people now in mediation (former judges), our son's pediatrician (where I have had to actually end an appointment to get our son out of the conflict), and various people I work with. BUT. While he's been through six attorneys in 11 months, he's never carried bad behavior over into the courtroom where it can be seen. I keep waiting for that to happen.

We are supremely unlucky in my county to have our family court run by a young commissioner with very little experience, having only sat on our bench for about a year and a half. Since he's arrived, there have been physical fights in the courtroom, rampant and allowed disrespect between attorneys, lack of control, and many of the cases heard last year (mine included) are now clogging up the revision and reconsideration process courts with actual judges. To that, I am absolutely thrilled that my contempt revision and parenting clarification were actually plucked from his docket in favor of putting them in front of a well known judge. Those issues will be heard in March and April, respectively.

As you say, " it's hard to go through this stuff when the BPD is high-functioning, has resources, and is highly narcissistic." You are 100% correct. I started the process thinking if I went to court, told the truth, things would be okay. I NEVER intended on him being such an effective liar. Even when his lies are truly outrageous (he can say something and contradict his own testimony a moment later, letting of with "I'm a busy doc, details are hard to remember" they have teeth and somehow he is believed. I am utterly gobsmacked at the punitive nature of the orders against me when when I come to court with an unbelievable amount of evidence; video, audio from other court hearings, photos, emails, texts, declarations from witnesses, even a statement from my ex-husband... .he literally shows up with nothing, truly, nothing, and he wins. It has been devastating at times.

The huge possibility for hope in this process is the chance to see a new judge next month... .I'm hopeful the new venue will be just what our case needs to get straightened out, at least in terms of the unrelenting litigation against me, so we can focus on our son.

Thank you again, both of you, all of you. I thought i was functioning pretty darn great before I came to bpdfamily, but turns out, I'm doing even better now.

TakesAVillage

[ForeverDad]

Be aware that your witnesses and supporters writing letters or affidavits on your behalf may not be enough.  In the USA it is testimony and documented details that count.  As my lawyer would say, "I can't cross-examine a piece of paper.  I always object and it's always sustained."

[livednlearned]

Woo. Getting a new judge with real experience could be a game changer for you. My L was initially nervous when I first hitched up to her wagon because of the judge I was going to get. And then that judge rotated off the bench and we got this other one in place and he was excellent. I would estimate him to be in his late 60s. My L actually had me file to terminate visitation a bit faster than I was ready for because the good judge was rotating off the bench and L was worried about the incoming one. What's up with female judges having no kids? That seems to be a thing in my county.

Anyway. Something I should mention is that my ex represented himself. So he flew his crazy flag right in front of the judge, no one there to tell him he should sit still and be quiet. If your ex did that, you would have full custody. I guarantee.

Also, this might be useful to give to your L (and for you too). It's an article I found written for lawyer by lawyers. https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270440.msg12566140#msg12566140

Read the whole article, not just the one adapted for bpdfamily -- it might be worth discussing with your lawyer to make sure you two are on the same page.

I also really like this one. It's written by Bill Eddy, and it's about the theory of blame. It will help you understand why the court system does not reward the type of approach many of us take.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=271911.msg12580077#msg12580077

Of course, there are many variables to why we don't win in court. But try to get as many pieces in place so your strategy stands a better chance.

Although there's not a whole lot you can do with a crappy judge. So many of them treat the two parties like children who can't get along, and they just want you to go away and sort it all out. I think they believe that if you figure it out on your own, you're more likely to follow the orders.

If I were you, I would start looking for ways to create motions for contempt. They kinda rack up like parking tickets in family court and not much gets done but when there is a history of them, the court starts to wonder why this one party can't comply. So make sure your L is the one who writes up any orders. That will happen after your hearing. It will cost you money to have your L write it up, but that way the L can put in consequences and get the language really tight. Your ex will have a chance to view it, but my ex, even as an L, never made any changes. It was beneath him. And that's how I was able to start driving the case instead of being rolled over by it.

[trappeddad]

my ex took a psych exam and certainly cheated on it.   and although she certainly has BPD the exam cleared her.   my L asked the counselor if she could have cheated and the counselor said anybody could cheat.      so don't put too much emphasis on that exam.

[scraps66]

I've not read all the posts, but the repititious issue of faulty psych evals strikes a cord with me.  I knew my ex used a bad Dr to administer her psych eval and it came out "she's a good parent" which is not at all the intent of a psych eval.  This is one of many things that tipped the hand that the Dr had not business administering the psych eval.

You can "cheat" on the psych eval, but interpretation of the results will show that the tested was "presenting falsely."  P:resuming the MMPI-2 was used for the psych eval, you need a very skilled and experienced doctor to not only administer, but interpret the results.  This is key.

So if the psych eval was done poorly - put your foot down and have it done again even if you have to pay for it.  I am now fours years out, spent a year trying to get my ex to have the correct psych eval done and then gave up as it became more important for me to close my case.  However, I now have no Achilles heel to lean on, I have no psych eval documenting that my ex has serious mental issues.  I really want that documentation!  We have an S10 that has significant behavioral issues which my ex continues to trivialize.  I fear a little van Munchausen with my ex as well.  To the point she avoids or blocks any therapy or counseling I try to get him.  HUGE red flag.