The BPD isn't paying her obligations.

[Nope]

Between DH wanting to be seen as the good guy and the magistrate not wanting to  try and get blood from a stone, the kid's BPD mom was only ordered to pay half of the amount of CS that the state formula came up with. Also, instead of paying the originally agreed upon 50/50 for medical expenses, her portion was changed to just 15%.

Well, I don't need to tell you how quickly the costs start piling up. Since the parties are to communicate primarily through email according to the custody order, DH has been sending the receipts for paid medical bills as attachments in emails.At first she tried complaining that DH had to give her hard copies, but when DH responded that this was nowhere in the order, she just stopped responding all together.

She is also apparently dodging CS Enforcement because they haven't been able to get at her pay checks and it's been two months. So. I guess my question is, if we go back to court and push this, is she going to be let off the hook, or since she was given such a massive break in the first place, can we get some enforcement?

[whirlpoollife]

She probably sees that the cost for you to get reimbursements is going to cost more than what she owes.

My x2bh is doing the same thing.  His employment status is a big hush hush.

Throughout the year I post the medical expenses to h, then I send the total via mail. Then I give the same to the support dept. If h does not pay , then it gets added to the arrrages.

Our state has support where the payor pays to the state and the state pays out.

I recently found out that if one is unemployed and receiving unemployement, then c/s is taken out of unemployment.  And if there is a tax refund due to the payor ,then it is also taken out of that.

Our support dept is seperate from the courthouse. Can you go directly to your state or support dept , if your county has one, for this and bypass court cost?

I am currently entangled in support issues , I can't be much more help , but I understand the frustration .

[catnap]

Google your State District Attorney and see if they do CS enforcement.

[ForeverDad]

After my divorce we settled for me to pay just alimony and not CS.  It was primarily a tax thing, if I paid CS then I was liable for the taxes, if she received alimony then he would have the tax liability.  Since her income was so low, neither of us paid those taxes and the gov't lost out.  Sure, she could still have demanded CS but the settlement was that if she did then the alimony amount would be 'reconsidered'.

Then shortly after alimony ended I was successful in becoming legal guardian, but with equal time to continue, both the GAL's recommendation.  We were told that if we proceeded to court that the judge would most likely accept the GAL's recommendation, so we settled.  Her obligation for medical and other expenses was kept at 17%, as it had been based on my submitted income and her 'imputed' income.  And I had to start CS due to "the disparity in income".  Why this story?

1.  The absurdity of the System.  I was Legal Guardian, had equal time and yet CSEA kept sending me communications listing me as the 'non-primary'

parent.  I called to report the error but they told me that the one who paid CS was always listed by the CSEA system as the non-primary parent, there was no setting or flag to change that.  Argh!

2.  My ex was never ordered to pay CS, that's another story.  So I never had to chase getting CS, which I agree might have been a CSEA matter, at least to start.

3.  This my primary point.  Of all the bills I sent my ex, the only item she paid was less than $10 to the cafeteria at the beginning of first grade in 2008.  She ignored all my letters listing school, dental and medical expenses.  My understanding is that to pursue it in family court you would not only have to prove you provided them to her, you have to specifically detail the matter in testimony to the magistrate or judge.  In my 2012-13 case with my ex, all the documents were included in my filing but it wasn't brought up in my testimony.  I've concluded that's why the magistrate ruled I hadn't proven it to the court.  And going forward court said I should

So I figure the CS issue for you will probably start with CSEA notification?  I believe the lack of expense reimbursement will start as a separate issue, perhaps Contempt of Court?  The lawyer would know, but based on my experience it would probably involve proving 'service' and then  testimony in court.  I used Certificate of Mailing, a little cheaper than Certified Mail I don't know whether that matters.  The court reasoned that it was unsure of my intent for submission, whether for Contempt or for reimbursement and so did nothing.  (My lawyer should have listed it in the filing as seeking Contempt judgment?)

As for whether hard copies of bills are needed to be sent as well, I guess that is also a lawyer question.  Just don't delay sending them, waiting too long could make them be considered 'stale'.

[Nope]

DH has been unable to get ahold of enforcement. He will leave another message today. The good news is that we had to radically change her call times due to changes in the kid's schedules and we haven't heard a peep out of her about it. Usually something like this would be met with a nasty fight. But I think having CSE trying to track her down about CS and DH trying to track her down about medical expenses has made her decide to just avoid any communication with DH all together. Personally, I'm more invested in the peace and quiet than I am in the money.

DH had all month to pay CS when the kids lives with her, but if she didn't have it within the first week of the month the phone calls and lectures would start. She is going to soon be three months in arrears. I'd imagine she doesn't want to give DH the opportunity to throw that fact in her face. Last night she apparently asked the kids when their spring break is. (As that is her parenting time this year.) She had three other options for getting that information. 1. Email DH and ask. 2. Ask the school. 3. Look at the schedule in Our Family Wizard. But instead she told the kids to find out and get back to her. *sigh* Sorry I'm ranting. Her inability to deal with anything is mostly just sad.

[bravhart1]

Our dear uBPDm has not paid support in over a year. Never sent a dime for half the daycare or medical bills. We aren't pursuing it as she has a very slippery way of getting out of paying money. And we are just too wrung out from her to care.

She will never pay, she is like a child when asked for money. It would be the same response as asking SD6 to pay the mortgage this month.

[tjay933]

if she is behind in payments, can she really insist on visitation rights? don't know if all states consider that as defaulting on the original agreement. not to put the kids in the way, just curious.

must be kind of enjoyable her trying to avoid you all though? peace and quiet-for now. enjoy the quiet at least.

[livednlearned]

if she is behind in payments, can she really insist on visitation rights?

Yes. The courts do not want to see money & visitation merged.

It's considered unethical, in the legal sense, not just the moral sense, to deny visitation just because someone is not current with child support or other types of court-ordered payment.

And unfortunately, it costs money to try and get money from the non-paying parent. And in my experience, judges seem strangely reluctant to impose sanctions or consequences, at least until it becomes a pattern. If it were child support, you could do something, and there is a whole system set up to garnish wages.

But for medical expenses, etc. it seems like a no-win situation.

Are you both expected to pay for the kids to travel to her during summer visitation?

[tjay933]

livednlearned-thanks for the clarification 

[Nope]

if she is behind in payments, can she really insist on visitation rights?

Yes. The courts do not want to see money & visitation merged.

It's considered unethical, in the legal sense, not just the moral sense, to deny visitation just because someone is not current with child support or other types of court-ordered payment.

And unfortunately, it costs money to try and get money from the non-paying parent. And in my experience, judges seem strangely reluctant to impose sanctions or consequences, at least until it becomes a pattern. If it were child support, you could do something, and there is a whole system set up to garnish wages.

But for medical expenses, etc. it seems like a no-win situation.

Are you both expected to pay for the kids to travel to her during summer visitation?

Actually, she is now ALSO three months behind on Child Support. So much for Child Support Enforcement having "teeth". I know someone else dealing with a BPD ex wife in our same jurisdiction who got all kinds of viciousness from SCE right after he got his order to pay when she got custody. Wonder where those same strong arm tactics are now?

Nobody "pays" for travel per se. The parties must each drive half way to reach a meeting spot. That's what is happening for Spring Break. She won't be getting summer parenting time because the order doesn't require DH to give her any and she hasn't started the court ordered individual counseling that she was supposed to start back in September. She's currently telling the kids all about the fun summer they are going to have with her just to make our lives more miserable when we have to tell the kids they aren't going. Can't very well tell them mommy had things she needed to do that she didn't do and that's why they can't go to the beach, amusement parks, etc. *sigh*

DH's plan is to keep sending her the paid medical bills and keep a tally of what she owes. But stay quiet as a mouse about CS because he feels that the deeper she digs that hole the better. I'm not so sure... .

[tjay933]

Stay strong. you're doing great. 

[Aussie JJ]

We had a public holiday (banks closed) and their was an e-mail about my inconsistent payments that came through.  It was taken out the next day, it was automatic every fortnight yet somehow I was inconsistent with my payments... .

My thoughts.  Send an e-mail weekly with a tally that grows.  Or fortnightly, monthly.  Whatever it is.  Make it so you are pursuing it not leaving it as "dead" so if ever questioned you can say, here are the 37 e-mails regarding that for CS payments. 

Here is every e-mail with a scanned copy of receipts and the previous amounts owed that haven't been paid added up as going.  23 e-mails here. 

Here is the e-mail sent every 3 months from our solicitor reminding her of the requirements to pay XYZ outstanding amount your honour. 

Here are all of the previous agreements decided last time in court and this is a total of 60 e-mails from us she has ignored and not responded to along with 13 from the solicitor reminding her of her obligations your honour.  Please can we have some assistance.  I understand that it is good for the children to have extra holidays and what not with their mother.  I am looking forward to this for them. 

We don't want to cause conflict however she is unable to meet requirements for individual counselling, unwilling to do as recommended by he court and is non responsive to all of these requests.  Can you assist us here as their is a total of $5,438 owing and we would like this money to cover expenses that are reasonable as decided by the courts as this is our discretionary income and this is preventing us from having those same opportunities she is asking for regarding having holidays with the kids.  Ultimately they are loosing out due to this pattern of behaviour.  The kids are loosing out on a mother committed to her own mental health and well-being and then double dip missing out on the opportunities to have holidays with us. 

Don't let it "die" completely.  Sets a precedent. 

my 2 cents... .


AJJ. 

[Nope]

Update-

CSE caught up with her and is pulling the back support and late fees out of her paychecks a little bit at a time. We didn't know that when we once again brought up her non-payment of the medical reimbursements via email

She is still very much giving us the run around on that. The order says she is to receive a copy of all of the bills and reciepts. She said that she would be happy to pay once she gets the bills and not just the receipts. But paying copays doesn't generate "bills". We pay at time of services and we are given a statement showing the date, amount due, and amount paid. We then have to have the provider sign the statement and we take it home and PDF and send as an email attachment to her. But she is making every possible excuse for why what she is provided is not sufficient. Moving goal posts.

DH has decided to sit down with an L here to talk about Change of Jurisdiction. It would really make our lives a whole lot easier and the L we spoke to said that we have a better than fair chance. Especially since her parenting time in her state that is given to her in the order is all of about three weeks per year. There is little that would make me happier than to not have to worry about running three states out of our way to deal with her in court. The L also said that despite all of her loud raging and complaining, it's likely she won't be able to hold it together well enough to come all the way here for a fight. Perhaps... .

[whirlpoollife]

For medical reimbursement , our support dept has it where I send ,via certified mail, the year end medical expenses. I have to have a cover letter,  which includes the total amounts  of each child added together. Then for each child, the expenses typed or written out , in order and seperated (medical ,dental, prescriptions) . Total there, then subtract my deductable, multiply his percentage.

On the cover letter I have to state that he has thirty days to reimburse me.

When he doesn't pay, I give a copy of what I sent to h, plus the return receipt of certified mailing ,  to the support dept and they add it on his arrages.

For last year he had to reimburse under $100. Has he ever paid any? No.