Bright Ideas - Feeling quite triggered

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

As part of the contact arrangements, both me and my ex have had to attend a course around communication and reducing conflict which is now mandatory here. Thankfully, we haven't had to attend together but whoever thought how to arrange the participants for the course didn't think it through too well.

There were 6 of us and it was an even split of resident parents and non-resident parents, fair enough. Its to get people engaged and to help identify where we can make changes in our approach, understand the difficulties faced by the resident parents and they can understand from the view of the non-resident parent and we can all discuss as well as learn communication tools, again fair enough.

In some ways no different to what we can offer on this site, except face to face and adds a bit of value as well as perspective. Where it wasn't thought through (mostly because it wasn't designed by psychologists) is the calibur of the people attending.

One woman in particular who pretty much triggered the entire group and I have no doubt in my mind has a cluster B personality. She pretty much ticked every box for BPD but of course I can't say she was, only presented herself that way. Imagine if we allowed both non and pwBPD on this site, the conflict and triggering that would cause and that's pretty much how I spent 6 hours of today.

It pretty much started straight away with her introduction. 6 months ago she started an affair with her ex husbands brother in law, filed for divorce immediately and actually married brother in law last week. She stopped her ex from seeing his children because he was angry at what just happened.

He filed a report of physical abuse against her which she was annoyed about before admitting she did hit him just once and that's because he was angry at finding out about the affair. At first when she moved out she gave him weekend contact but it was too much for her and her new husband so she reduced it to 1 day. Because he got angry at that she cut off all contact and blames him entirely for not having contact with his daughter because of his anger towards her.

She also considers the fact she hit him and that it was a one off as being ridiculous that he would even file a report against that. No responsibility whatsoever for the fact she was physically abusive because her ex was angry at finding out about the affair and being hit with a divorce from nowhere.

Her reasons for being there today was solely for validation that her ex husband is entirely to blame and because the court ordered her to be there. She wanted to know how she can tell her ex in a non conflict way that he is the reason he isn't seeing his daughter.

That was pretty much her opening statement. For the rest of us, even the other resident parents, it was a lot to take in and several of us were quite triggered. Made even worse when she commented on the fact that our stories validated her beliefs that her ex is entirely to blame and that she has done nothing wrong. The 6 hours that followed were on a similar level to that also. She didn't like the fact her ex has a new girlfriend now, that it should be all the more reason to stop him seeing his daughter because at least with her new husband already being related, her daughter knew who he was so isn't prepared to let her daughter go to a stranger.

For all intents and purposes, had my ex been on the same course it probably would have been far less triggering. I know the course meant well but was equally as triggering all the same. I think what most of us learned today was how to smile and bite your tongue. The things that came out of her mouth as being perfectly normal were just unreal and not an ounce of responsibility for any of her own actions. For the rest of us, we did at least identify things we were doing wrong and where we could improve situations but her take at the end was she couldn't wait for her ex to attend because maybe then he can work on his issues, nothing about what she learned from it.

[Ripped Heart]

As part of the contact arrangements, both me and my ex have had to attend a course around communication and reducing conflict which is now mandatory here. Thankfully, we haven't had to attend together but whoever thought how to arrange the participants for the course didn't think it through too well.

There were 6 of us and it was an even split of resident parents and non-resident parents, fair enough. Its to get people engaged and to help identify where we can make changes in our approach, understand the difficulties faced by the resident parents and they can understand from the view of the non-resident parent and we can all discuss as well as learn communication tools, again fair enough.

In some ways no different to what we can offer on this site, except face to face and adds a bit of value as well as perspective. Where it wasn't thought through (mostly because it wasn't designed by psychologists) is the calibur of the people attending.

One woman in particular who pretty much triggered the entire group and I have no doubt in my mind has a cluster B personality. She pretty much ticked every box for BPD but of course I can't say she was, only presented herself that way. Imagine if we allowed both non and pwBPD on this site, the conflict and triggering that would cause and that's pretty much how I spent 6 hours of today.

It pretty much started straight away with her introduction. 6 months ago she started an affair with her ex husbands brother in law, filed for divorce immediately and actually married brother in law last week. She stopped her ex from seeing his children because he was angry at what just happened.

He filed a report of physical abuse against her which she was annoyed about before admitting she did hit him just once and that's because he was angry at finding out about the affair. At first when she moved out she gave him weekend contact but it was too much for her and her new husband so she reduced it to 1 day. Because he got angry at that she cut off all contact and blames him entirely for not having contact with his daughter because of his anger towards her.

She also considers the fact she hit him and that it was a one off as being ridiculous that he would even file a report against that. No responsibility whatsoever for the fact she was physically abusive because her ex was angry at finding out about the affair and being hit with a divorce from nowhere.

Her reasons for being there today was solely for validation that her ex husband is entirely to blame and because the court ordered her to be there. She wanted to know how she can tell her ex in a non conflict way that he is the reason he isn't seeing his daughter.

That was pretty much her opening statement. For the rest of us, even the other resident parents, it was a lot to take in and several of us were quite triggered. Made even worse when she commented on the fact that our stories validated her beliefs that her ex is entirely to blame and that she has done nothing wrong. The 6 hours that followed were on a similar level to that also. She didn't like the fact her ex has a new girlfriend now, that it should be all the more reason to stop him seeing his daughter because at least with her new husband already being related, her daughter knew who he was so isn't prepared to let her daughter go to a stranger.

For all intents and purposes, had my ex been on the same course it probably would have been far less triggering. I know the course meant well but was equally as triggering all the same. I think what most of us learned today was how to smile and bite your tongue. The things that came out of her mouth as being perfectly normal were just unreal and not an ounce of responsibility for any of her own actions. For the rest of us, we did at least identify things we were doing wrong and where we could improve situations but her take at the end was she couldn't wait for her ex to attend because maybe then he can work on his issues, nothing about what she learned from it.

[Nope]

Some of the most valuable people in my past have been the ones who've shown me what not to do and who not to be. I'm a step mom and I can honestly say that a huge reason I have the loving relationship with my DH's kids is because I had a horrible step mother who treated me in such ways that I swore I would never treat someone else. Hopefully, the big take-away for everyone else from having someone like that in that class was how  *not* to be.Because even perfectly mentally healthy people can have a hard time being reasonable around divorce and coparenting.

[livednlearned]

Ripped Heart, knowing your story, I can see why this would very triggering. I would have trouble being in a group situation that wasn't facilitated well, or wasn't being led by someone who understands mental illness, and Cluster B in particular. To add to that, you were blocked from seeing your kids and that had to be difficult to hear this woman discuss behavior that mirrors what your ex did.

Do you have to continue doing this course, or is it over?

[Ripped Heart]

Thanks guys,

That's exactly it Nope, one of the lessons in there was how NOT to be and as LnL has said, I think part of the triggering came from listening to a woman behaving in the same way my ex did. If I'm totally honest, part of it might probably have been that since she felt that was acceptable and took nothing away from it herself really I may be fearing that my ex didn't either as she also has to attend and can see her having the same attitude in there. I guess it left me less hopeful that it would help build bridges in terms of reducing conflict and improving communication going forward. I can relate entirely to your situation and something I've identified with in T that when we experience those kinds of r/s when we are younger we either see that as the norm and become the same way or we understand that something is not right and become the complete opposite. I had an NPD father so with my children I became the complete opposite. The only issue for me especially is that what I need to work on is finding the middle ground because the opposite of my father goes from being an abuser to be the abused in adult relationships and that also isn't something I want to impress upon my children, that it's ok to be abused in relationships.

I have a wonderful relationship with the mother of my eldest daughter, in a lot of ways we are like friends in that we support each other through difficult periods, are able to communicate and share with each other what's going on in our daughters life when one finds out about something we think the other should know. We share difficult things in our lives because we know what will have an impact on our daughter. I supported my eldest's mother through a lot last year, her mothers stroke, her fathers death and her brothers suicide attempt because she came and asked for help as she knew our daughter needed support and she wasn't in a good place to do that. Our daughter came to stay with me to allow her mother time to grieve and give her a place where she could feel safe to do so herself. Likewise, my struggles with exBPDgf, my eldests mother was the first person to call and offer support because we know how important it is for our daughter and because we still care. It didn't work as a relationship but doesn't mean we don't want the best for each other and it also shows our daughter that sometimes in life, things don't work out as you would like but it's not the end.

I won't ever have that kind of relationship with d10 and d4's mother because she only sees in black and white. A relationship ends and you are supposed to hate each other. Disturbingly d10 has already picked up on that and made a comment last week around "boyfriends" at school. How she "hates" one boyfriend because she has another. Asking her the reasons why, he hasn't done anything wrong, it's just that she likes someone else now so believes that when you move on you have to hate the other person. Thankfully now, given her age and access again, I have something to work with before it reaches a stage where it becomes too late.

LnL, thankfully it was only a 6 hour course so it's done now and don't have to go back. I got the impression from the facilitator that he has dealt with this type of scenario before from the way he would guide away from certain discussions when she started using triggering comments but without really addressing the issue itself. One comment he did make was around that you can't change the other persons behaviour so it's about working on your own approach to reduce the conflict, although it was useful information for all of us, he did direct it towards her as in to say we aren't here to look at our ex's behaviours but how we change ours to reduce our side of conflict. I don't think she got it though.

He also expressed about not generalising because a couple of times she did slip in to that and again it was gentle reminders to bring things back on track. Again though, I can understand given the courses intent, why they would split the group in the way they do. However, it felt too high level in that regard and not sure how you could facilitate for reasons of split either. The other 2 resident parents on the course were really nice and I'm sure that when you do put courses together that focus around breakups, chances are you are at some point going to have someone there who may have a PD or at least many traits associated with one. It was just weird how she managed to trigger everyone within the group today, up until that point I thought it was just me given what I went through so stepped outside during a break to take myself away from the situation, 2 other people joined me for the very same reason. I almost put it down on the feedback forms, but in truth it's not the courses fault to be fair, they don't have a vetting process so these things inevitably happen so is something for me to overcome.

The course today is compulsory for all separated parents going through the court process. My ex has still been ordered by the courts on a parenting course too so in that regard the court identified a further need for her around her attitude. Maybe the same thing is coming for this woman too as I know she mentioned another course she has to attend on the 27th March but didn't specify what. So perhaps it doesn't get picked up at this point but the courts are the ones who recognise further development and maybe that course is more tailored around the issues.