Split Custody Arrangements and Long Term Effects

[StrongDadOf2]

To be clear, I have not decided on divorce, but I have interviewed a few lawyers to get their opinions on legal options should I decide to.  Of all people, it was my pastor who recommended doing this, as well as two different therapists (my son's and mine).

I'm working through the decision making post (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=111890.msg1099713) and got to the part about deciding based on the kids' needs (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=97979.0;all)

From my post over on the Undecided Board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=272752.msg12586722

My son (S11) has a severe anxiety disorder that is exacerbated by her parenting (or lack thereof, now).  S11's therapist says no progress can be made with him until my wife is more "loving and consistent, or gone." She does not even hug him anymore, and most interactions are terse.  I'm able to do the heavy lifting with his immediate care and safety, but long term does look dismal if I stay.

My wife has a decent relationship with our daughter (D3), though is inconsistent with her care, too.  I'm warned by my son's therapist, my therapist, and our couple's therapist to watch out for signs of demonizing her as she grows older and more independent.  My wife tends to use D3 as en extension of herself (if mom needs calcium supplements the D3 must need them, too!  If mom doesn't like taking Benedryl, then D3 must not like it, too!).  My wife is good at keeping D3 safe, taking her around to play with friends, taking her to gym classes, etc.  She does none of that for S11.

Each lawyer I've talked with says that I'll definitely have sole custody of S11, since she repeatedly says she would "rather be dead than be his mom" and has mistreated him a lot in the past.  Visitation with S11, if granted at all, would have to be supervised.  In the case of custody of D3, though, it will most likely be a shared custody arrangement, probably every-other-week.  That makes leaving a bit tougher for me to take, since I can't completely trust my wife with D3 in the long term.

Questions I have are:

- How common is it to shield one child from a parent, but share parenting of the other?

- What other legal issues surrounding custody should I be thinking about and preparing for?

[rarsweet]

I can't imagine why a parent who needs supervised contact with one child should have free reign with the other. To me that would send the message to your son that its his fault mom acts the way she does because she is good enough for other children. I am so sorry for your little guy. Is her behavior to him documented? Is he able to express how he feels about the situation? And I would imagine your daughter would eventually be confused also.

[StrongDadOf2]

I can't imagine why a parent who needs supervised contact with one child should have free reign with the other. To me that would send the message to your son that its his fault mom acts the way she does because she is good enough for other children. I am so sorry for your little guy. Is her behavior to him documented? Is he able to express how he feels about the situation?

My gut tells me that would be an odd arrangement and not good for S11, either.  I've been keeping a journal of her behavior and interactions with the kids for close to 8 months now.  Her behavior toward him is documented in her therapy, my therapy, couple's therapy, and my son's therapy sessions.  Of course, D3 is on the pedestal so documented interactions with her are normal-ish (besides the completely inconsistent parenting).  S11 is so scared of her that, if she is the only one home after school, he'll wait outside the house until I come home.

[ForeverDad]

I agree, a split-the-children arrangement (a la the movie Parent Trap) is not good for the children.

It's not unusual for a disordered parent to favor one child or one gender over the other.  But I would beware of thinking she's 'okay' as parent with the preschooler.  People with BPD often feel overly entitled and try to be controllers, okay for a small child but an unmitigated disaster for children as they grow older and need gradually increasing levels of independence.  If D3 spends too much time with mother then she risks either becoming like her mother or becoming a target, an appeaser or even caregiver.

As for your concerns about the children living between two residences, don't worry overmuch.  Though not optimal, there are millions of kids that go back and forth between parents.  And don't use that as an excuse to delay ending a dysfunctional family life.  As sad as divorce is and as strange as this sounds, living separately very likely will provide a better example to the children.  If the children live in the midst of a controlling/controlled or demanding/appeasing home, they won't have a healthy example from either parent and they're all too likely to grow up and choose a spouse or relationship just like Dad and Mom.

A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that is - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

[momtara]

Courts try to keep siblings together. Maybe there are rare exceptions if one is a baby and needs more care or something. I could see giving her a little more time with D3 BUT keep it supervised. As you note, you will be scared of this. You are trying to be fair the way I did too many times, and now I regret it as maybe it was helpful to my ex husband, not so much to the kids. I worry every time they are with him. Supervised visitation doesn't have to be forever. If she does better, maybe she can get off it with D3. Also, you should ask for as much as you can - leave it to the other side to try to bargain you down. If she wants daughter to have pills because SHE likes them, etc., it doesn't seem she takes the greatest care of your daughter. Go with your gut. Ask for supervised. One week on/one week off seems confusing, too - that's a long time to be with one and then you'd miss that parent, especially for a 3-year-old. I think your brain and heart know what to do. Your 11 year old needs a lot of love, and you can probably give it better without her interfering.

Do you have those statements with her (wanting him dead etc) on tape or something? In emails?

[StrongDadOf2]

Courts try to keep siblings together. Maybe there are rare exceptions if one is a baby and needs more care or something. I could see giving her a little more time with D3 BUT keep it supervised. As you note, you will be scared of this. You are trying to be fair the way I did too many times, and now I regret it as maybe it was helpful to my ex husband, not so much to the kids. I worry every time they are with him. Supervised visitation doesn't have to be forever. If she does better, maybe she can get off it with D3. Also, you should ask for as much as you can - leave it to the other side to try to bargain you down. If she wants daughter to have pills because SHE likes them, etc., it doesn't seem she takes the greatest care of your daughter. Go with your gut. Ask for supervised. One week on/one week off seems confusing, too - that's a long time to be with one and then you'd miss that parent, especially for a 3-year-old. I think your brain and heart know what to do. Your 11 year old needs a lot of love, and you can probably give it better without her interfering.

Do you have those statements with her (wanting him dead etc) on tape or something? In emails?

Luckily, it's not that she wants S11 dead, it's that she would rather be dead herself.  She's said all of these thing at home and in therapy, so I'd be relying on therapist's notes and my written diary as evidence.  She's only hugged S11 three times in the last six months, so the only parental love he's been getting for years has been from me.

The legal situation of divorce in Virginia is odd.  The couple has to be separated for 12 months before divorce proceedings can start, which means that, unless there are fault grounds (cheating, physical abuse, abandonment), the court does not get involved with custody and property until after the waiting period.  I'll have to work out custody arrangements one-on-one with her, and possibly her lawyer (if she gets one) in the mean time.

People with BPD often feel overly entitled and try to be controllers, okay for a small child but an unmitigated disaster for children as they grow older and need gradually increasing levels of independence.

Oh man is she controlling with them both!  S11 should never play outside in the neighborhood with friends unless there is a parent standing watch over him the whole time, and his sock drawer should always be arranged by color.  D3 must still be buckled into a high chair and have exactly 3 cups of milk every day.  Ugh.

[ForeverDad]

In the case of custody of D3, though, it will most likely be a shared custody arrangement, probably every-other-week.  That makes leaving a bit tougher for me to take, since I can't completely trust my wife with D3 in the long term.

I'm not in your state, but this is how my court handled equal time.

When my ex surprised everyone by saying on Trial Morning in 2007 (about two years after I separated and filed for divorce) that she was finally ready to settle for equal time, I was seeing things from my perspective, I saw the repeated confrontations at exchanges at the top of my list.  I told the Custody Evaluator that I wanted alternate weeks just to reduce the incidents.  But the CE disagreed, though my son was 3 years old when we separated and was a 5 year old in kindergarten on that day, he said long separations from me shouldn't happen until the child was older, such as 10 years old.  So we started a split week 2-2-5-5 schedule, ex got Mon/Tue overnights, I got Wed/Thu overnights and we split the weekends.

Spin the years forward until late 2013, son was 11.  I had already gotten legal custody a couple years earlier and now the court had just ordered that I get majority time during the school year but left the summer with the split week schedule.  I complained to my lawyer, I argued it would be simpler to finally change to alternate weeks for the equal time summers.  His reply?  ":)o you want the court, which just saw a need to order you majority time during the school year due to concern of mother's behaviors, that you are okay with giving her longer periods of time with your son?"

That's why it would not be good for your daughter to be with her poorly-behaving mother for longer periods of time than necessary.  If the court orders it, yes, comply, but don't suggest long periods away from you.  If it has to be equal time, why not use the 2-2-5-5 schedule?  That way she would never be away from you for more than 5 days, excluding vacations.

Some have noted that although the disordered parent wants longer official time, either to look like a good parent or hoping to get more child support, over time some of those parents will not take all their time.  So if you do get extra time in the future, document it.  You may be able to use it later as basis to get the ordered schedule adjusted to reflect the actual parenting times.

A final note, most of us are reasonably normal Nice Guys and Nice Gals.  But one otherwise excellent character trait can sabotage us - our sense of fairness.  We may feel we have to be overly fair but balance that with the reality:  (1) Ex probably will not reciprocate your sense of fairness.  (2) The priority is what is in your children's best interests, not what is 'fair' to your ex - always remember that this is about the children, not the parents.

[ogopogodude]

First of all, I love your name (strongdadof2).  I wish I woulda chose that, or maybe Martyr-dadof2 would be close enough.  Your story is like mine.

Keep the good relationship going with your son (and your daughter). Your (ex) doesn't apparently do anything with your son, but make him angry it seems. So, take him shopping, take  him to a hockey or baseball game, ... .simply put, just do things with him. I have a great rapport with my two kids. They r teenagers now.

This sounds like what your son is craving. Just to have time spent with him. Movie watch with him. My 15 year old son is at a swearing stage, as well as wanting to be left alone pretty much, but he does not hesitate to want attention from me when he wants it.  For example, just last night, he was watching a movie and asked for me to scratch his back for 2 minutes while he watched the movie. That 2 mins turned into 15.

This stems from when he kids were toddlers I would get the kids to settle down in bed and play "the scratch game", by asking them to guess what I was writing on their back (with my fingernails, ... like "i Love you" and so on). Human touch is amazing in terms of bonding with one's kids. But start this young so when your kids get older they don't shrug you off later off in life.

Sorry for getting off topic.

[momtara]

I don't know if those statements are enough for you to get sole custody, but I guess various states are different. Definitely fight. Sounds like you have a lot in your favor.

[livednlearned]

I'm really sorry to hear that your S11 is suffering from a severe anxiety disorder. That's so tough  :'(  It must be breaking your heart to see him suffer like that. My S13 also has an anxiety disorder -- depression is often right behind so keep an eye out for that. Is your son getting relief with the psychiatrist he's seeing? Mine is receiving "metacognitive" therapy and it seems to be having a positive effect, tho he has a ways to go. Being rejected by a parent can be so devastating. S13's father is no longer in his life and I think it's going to take a long time for him to work through those feelings.

The legal situation of divorce in Virginia is odd.  The couple has to be separated for 12 months before divorce proceedings can start, which means that, unless there are fault grounds (cheating, physical abuse, abandonment), the court does not get involved with custody and property until after the waiting period.  I'll have to work out custody arrangements one-on-one with her, and possibly her lawyer (if she gets one) in the mean time.

I'm just south of you -- laws are similar here (12-month separation before divorce can be granted). Have you checked and double-checked with a lawyer about how things work? Because most states want there to be a custody agreement in place, even if it's temporary, during the separation period. During my separation period, I was in mediation a few months after filing the separation agreement, and we followed the custody order until the divorce was final about 15 months later. Then the temporary order became permanent without us even showing up in court. At least for that... .

The divorce -- the actual legal act of being officially divorced -- is almost a non-event in many ways. It's a piece of paper that arrives in the mail. Sorting out the other aspects, like custody and financial settlements typically gets going in mediation.

It confused me when I went through it, so apologies if you've got things in order and it's clear as day for you. It's important to be sure, because any agreement that you sign, while it may seem temporary, will not be temporary. Think of every document you sign as a steel door that shuts, even if you are not in front of a judge. Once you sign it, court will refuse to let you open it unless you have a heck of a good reason, and that reason is usually expensive.

I also agree with others about not splitting the kids. Back in the 70s and 80s they did this more, and research shows that it was not beneficial to the siblings. They need each other. Also, your wife may change her tune with your daughter as she gets older and begins to individuate. Try to set up the most favorable custody now because court is not known for changing its direction too easily. 

[red pill]

To be clear, I have not decided on divorce, ... .

My son (S11) has a severe anxiety disorder that is exacerbated by her parenting (or lack thereof, now).  S11's therapist says no progress can be made with him until my wife is more "loving and consistent, or gone." She does not even hug him anymore, and most interactions are terse.  I'm able to do the heavy lifting with his immediate care and safety, but long term does look dismal if I stay.

My wife has a decent relationship with our daughter (D3), though is inconsistent with her care, too.  I'm warned by my son's therapist, my therapist, and our couple's therapist to watch out for signs of demonizing her as she grows older and more independent.  My wife tends to use D3 as en extension of herself (if mom needs calcium supplements the D3 must need them, too!  If mom doesn't like taking Benedryl, then D3 must not like it, too!).  My wife is good at keeping D3 safe, taking her around to play with friends, taking her to gym classes, etc.  She does none of that for S11.

Each lawyer I've talked with says that I'll definitely have sole custody of S11,

... .

- What other legal issues surrounding custody should I be thinking about and preparing for?

Nobody can tell you what to do, but it looks like you may already know.

I finally let my relationship like this blow up completely after many years of placating her. I couldn't pull the trigger either and I ended up deciding to just let her escalate a fight rather than placating her so she said she would leave and I said OK. My 21 year old and 17 year old have been totally rejected by their mother causing them extreme anguish. Her behaviour is all their fault of course. After the 21 year old went she started demonising the 17 year old. Now he is gone she is demonising he 15 year old. On a rainy night in the next 12 months the 15 year old will turn up at my place, then it is the 13 year old's turn.

One of the most painful things for my girls is that they have minimal access to their demonised brothers when they are at their mum's place. I run mobile phones for them and have explained to them that neither parent should have their passwords. You can't really do that for a three year old though.

The nonsense about medicines is not benign. One of my kids spent 6 months off school for a minor complaint and another spent 4 months off with no identifiable illness other than her mother said she looked sick. All of them have been taken to psychologists to try to induce memories of sexual abuse. 3 year olds to not need calcium supplements.

Importantly perhaps for where you are - my kids are just so thankful that I let the marriage blow up and then worked my ass off to keep them in contact with me and each other, to put them back in touch with reality and let them have a few dreams and ambitions.

All the best

[Deb]

Just a few thoughts here:

1) Think about how the younger child might feel. Will this child feel like you didn't fight for her?

2) How do you know your ex won't turn on D3?

3) Take some time to read in the unchosen section and see how being raised by a pwBPD affected them.