Did I hear that right?

[MKG1015]

I had a  moment this past week. I went to see a neurologist about my chronic migraines and episodes of almost passing out (she is doing testing to get to the bottom of it). Once we had cleared out the purely physical stuff she looked me straight in the eye and said "So what is the distress here? There seems to be a ton of underlying distress." I said "I don't want to be sick anymore!" and then husband chimed in with "No that's not it, she thinks she's becoming her mother b/c every doctor keeps telling her she's fat and crazy and she thinks that means she'll be like her mom." I promptly started sobbing b/c he's 100% right.  :'( The doc asked about "Mom" and I told her she is BPD. Unbelievably, she said her Mom was too! I couldn't believe I managed to find a doc who not only knew what BPD was but had grown up with it as I had!

We talked at length about how Mom is still running my life and then she said something no one has ever said out loud to me. She said "I'm not a therapist so I don't have time to 'bring you to this' so I'm just gonna say it. She is going to kill you. Like the drowning victim pulls down the lifeguard who is trying to save her; she is going to kill you. She's drowning, you can't save her. Let her go." I truly couldn't believe I was hearing someone give me permission to cut her loose.   

Hearing her say that has really made me think about whether or not i could really go no contact. I've always wanted to try but I'm terrified she will actually commit suicide this time if I (the literal last person in her life) dessert her. When I said that to the doc she said ":)on't worry she won't. They never kill themselves... .and if they do it's not on purpose. They are attempting to get your attention and only succeed by accident!" Which, while horrible, is more than likely true. I mentioned all the horrible things she says to me and Doc cuts me off and says "'I hate you, you ruin my life, you don't love me, you're a horrible little b___' Stuff like that? Yes sweetie I can play you all the tapes in my head b/c I have them too."

She said I need to get rid of that nastiness if I'm ever going to get better. And all I can think is "can she be right? Is it really going to come down to choosing to save my own life over my mother's?" Even writing this I'm hearing "she's going to kill you" echoing through my head.

I don't know if I need help on this issue or if I just needed to put it out there... .either way, thanks for listening and whatever input anyone cares to share.

[tjay933]

I find that when I'm in a situation similar to yours, I need to take a while to let it sink in.

that being said, what do you feel is in your best interests here? there are a lot of people here that have gone NC with their BPDs and the BPDs just keep going.

what will help you in your healing?

ps, I love  moments. they are the ones that stick with you and help you as light posts in the darknesses of life.

stay safe. glad your h spoke up. 

[clljhns]

Hi MKG1015,

"No that's not it, she thinks she's becoming her mother b/c every doctor keeps telling her she's fat and crazy and she thinks that means she'll be like her mom." I promptly started sobbing b/c he's 100% right.  cry The doc asked about "Mom" and I told her she is BPD. Unbelievably, she said her Mom was too! I couldn't believe I managed to find a doc who not only knew what BPD was but had grown up with it as I had!

I have never met anyone in person who revealed that there parent was also BPD. I know this had to be a life-affirming moment for you. Just being on this site has empowered me and given me validation for all of the years of craziness and chaos with my FOO.

I've always wanted to try but I'm terrified she will actually commit suicide this time if I (the literal last person in her life) dessert her. When I said that to the doc she said ":)on't worry she won't. They never kill themselves... .and if they do it's not on purpose.

While my mother never threatened suicide, I understand your fear. But, the doctor told you the reality of the situation. I have been NC for more than 10 years and nothing has changed for my parents. They are still alive and well. I also understand your fear that she will kill you. When I first came out with all of the abuse and confronted my dad, I was terrified that they would come and kill me. This did not happen. I felt like this for less than a year, and then the feeling was gone.

I don't know if I need help on this issue or if I just needed to put it out there

I am glad you shared this with us. I think it is important to your healing to share as much as you feel comfortable with, and know that we are here to listen and support you. 

Keep us posted on how you are doing. 

[Panda39]

I had a  moment this past week. I went to see a neurologist about my chronic migraines and episodes of almost passing out (she is doing testing to get to the bottom of it). Once we had cleared out the purely physical stuff she looked me straight in the eye and said "So what is the distress here? There seems to be a ton of underlying distress." I said "I don't want to be sick anymore!" and then husband chimed in with "No that's not it, she thinks she's becoming her mother b/c every doctor keeps telling her she's fat and crazy and she thinks that means she'll be like her mom." I promptly started sobbing b/c he's 100% right.  :'( The doc asked about "Mom" and I told her she is BPD. Unbelievably, she said her Mom was too! I couldn't believe I managed to find a doc who not only knew what BPD was but had grown up with it as I had!

We talked at length about how Mom is still running my life and then she said something no one has ever said out loud to me. She said "I'm not a therapist so I don't have time to 'bring you to this' so I'm just gonna say it. She is going to kill you. Like the drowning victim pulls down the lifeguard who is trying to save her; she is going to kill you. She's drowning, you can't save her. Let her go." I truly couldn't believe I was hearing someone give me permission to cut her loose.   

Hearing her say that has really made me think about whether or not i could really go no contact. I've always wanted to try but I'm terrified she will actually commit suicide this time if I (the literal last person in her life) dessert her. When I said that to the doc she said ":)on't worry she won't. They never kill themselves... .and if they do it's not on purpose. They are attempting to get your attention and only succeed by accident!" Which, while horrible, is more than likely true. I mentioned all the horrible things she says to me and Doc cuts me off and says "'I hate you, you ruin my life, you don't love me, you're a horrible little b___' Stuff like that? Yes sweetie I can play you all the tapes in my head b/c I have them too."

She said I need to get rid of that nastiness if I'm ever going to get better. And all I can think is "can she be right? Is it really going to come down to choosing to save my own life over my mother's?" Even writing this I'm hearing "she's going to kill you" echoing through my head.

I don't know if I need help on this issue or if I just needed to put it out there... .either way, thanks for listening and whatever input anyone cares to share.

Wow powerful stuff and frankly I like how blunt she was because I think you heard her clear as day through some of the FOG that still surrounds you... .clearly the neurologist has been there.

I also like that her statement has made you feel that you have "permission" to go no contact.  There is nothing worse than that inner conflict of something you think you "should" do vs something you "want" or "need" to do.  Getting that permission to do what you "want" to do can be such a relief when we get conflicted. 

And that "should" voice in your head... .who's is it?... .yours?... .society's... .or (as is often the case with me) your mothers?

I encourage you to think about your own values and what you want for yourself (note: this is not selfishness... .this is self care... .self love)

Take care of you 

Panda39

[MKG1015]

Thank you all for your replies.

Panda-

I also like that her statement has made you feel that you have "permission" to go no contact.  There is nothing worse than that inner conflict of something you think you "should" do vs something you "want" or "need" to do.  Getting that permission to do what you "want" to do can be such a relief when we get conflicted. 

And that "should" voice in your head... .who's is it?... .yours?... .society's... .or (as is often the case with me) your mothers?

Yes I feel as though this doctor has given me permission to go NC... .but, again, there is that "should" voice telling me it's wrong. I think the voice is both my mother's (as is often the case) as well society's. When Mom went legally blind "society" didn't understand why I had such an issue taking care of her. In fact, most people flat out said "it's your duty as her daughter." None are aware of the abuse I experienced since few of them have ever heard of BPD and, in the midwest, you weren't abused unless you were beaten. Emotional/Mental abuse is not considered valid and should be "shaken off." Anyway, "society" can't understand that making me take of Mom is asking me to do what I've done every day of my life since I was 6 and became the parent. I simply can't do it anymore.

Clljhns-

Unfortunately, Mom's "cycle" includes threatening suicide as well as, sometimes, attempting it. I'm terrified that she will finally succeed and (yes I believe this) it will be my fault for not stopping it. This fear is what has bound me to her for my whole life. I feel like I'm already going straight to hell for hating her... .I can't imagine what would happen if I ended up with her actual death on my hands.

tjay933-

I think going NC for at least awhile is best for me. However, I don't even know how to do it! I *have* to call her on my way home from work and if I don't she will call me continuously until I answer. If I am even 5 mins (no joke) late calling her she begins the conversation with "I figured you didn't love me anymore." How in the hell am I going to explain NC to her? She thinks she was an amazing mother and will be floored that I think otherwise.

I see my therapist on Thursday and I plan to talk exclusively about this with her and see what we come up with b/c I'm at a loss.

[clljhns]

  MKG1015,

This fear is what has bound me to her for my whole life. I feel like I'm already going straight to hell for hating her... .

I completely understand your fear. It is what kept me in contact with my FOO for years. Have you read the article on FOG? I think you might find it illuminating. The link is here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog.

Let me know what you think about the article.

Wishing you all the best. 

[MKG1015]

Clljhns-

I just read the article. Wow. 

Self-punishers - Eat the food I cooked for you or I'll hurt myself.  Self-punishers turn the threats inward, threatening what they will do to themselves if they don’t get their way. High drama and an air of crisis, often blamed on the controlled, surround self-punishers who are often excessively needy and dependent. They often enmesh themselves with those around them and struggle with taking responsibility with their own lives. The ultimate threat self-punishers can make is that they will kill themselves.

She also plays the Tantalizer at times but, since I'm an adult, she no longer has anything I want (i.e. privileges, for her not to be mad, etc).

Unfortunately, I am employing the tactics listed in the article and they don't really have any impact. She is so far gone at this point she sees *nothing* wrong with her behavior or the way she treats me. My most effective tool is silence. When she gives me the "forget it, I'll just do everyone a favor and kill myself," I refuse to rise to the bait. Her hold on me isn't nearly as tight as it once was but I still want to be entirely free of it.

Mostly I'm tired... .tired of fighting, tired of fear, tired of being browbeaten, tired of being her sole support system and friend... .most of all tired of being her daughter. What I struggle with is the dichotomy of hoping she doesn't hurt herself and also hoping that she goes through with it so I can free. ... .I can't believe I typed that... .but it's 100% true.

[clljhns]

  MKG1015,

I understand being tired of the whole situation and needing a break from it.

I am employing the tactics listed in the article and they don't really have any impact

Can you tell me a little more about what you tried and how long have you been using the new methods? It took several years of enforcing boundaries with my uBPDmom before she finally stopped the barrage of attacks on me. Not to say that she still didn't from time to time, but I had learned to disengage emotionally by this point and didn't react.

Give yourself the credit you deserve for being willing to reach out for support and looking for tools to help. You are very brave and I applaud you for working so hard to break the chains that bind you. If you look back at your first few posts, you are now at a place of exploring avenues to help yourself. Kudos!

What I struggle with is the dichotomy of hoping she doesn't hurt herself and also hoping that she goes through with it so I can free. ... .I can't believe I typed that... .but it's 100% true.

Don't beat yourself up over this thought. I think this is part of the FOG speaking here, and part of your exhaustion from having dealt with this for many years. You can still be free from the chaos as long as you continue to work on establishing boundaries for yourself, understanding what motivates you to react the way you do to mom, and being good to yourself. Do you believe that you deserve to be free from the struggle?

All the best. 

[Panda39]

Hi MKG1015,

Mostly I'm tired... .tired of fighting, tired of fear, tired of being browbeaten, tired of being her sole support system and friend... .most of all tired of being her daughter. What I struggle with is the dichotomy of hoping she doesn't hurt herself and also hoping that she goes through with it so I can free. ... .I can't believe I typed that... .but it's 100% true.

I'm glad you said/typed this.  It is a safe place here to express your thoughts and I want to encourage you to continue to.  I know what a relief it is just getting something off of my chest. Venting is okay 

Next step after venting... .learning, problem solving and some tools... .


With that in mind I also wanted to point out the Lessons links in the box to the right ----------------------------->