She left two boxes behind...

[LimboFL]

"Thank you - the same to you!

Our stories are very similar, indeed. My painful days are fewer, less intense, and further between.  I could barely imagine that possibility 6 months ago.

The "pieces" quote, at least for me, is very much about love - self sacrificing love. I think there are times that I will decide put aside my own needs to meet the needs of someone else - especially because I am a strong person. But there's a time and a place for that, as well as a time and a place to have my own needs met.  Balance is the key; and my r/s got waaaaaaaaay out of balance.

My introspection is not undertaken with the intent to weaken myself, but to look at myself honestly. I can paint a very pretty picture of myself - of my strength, of my love for her, of my love for my step daughter (a huge part of the reason why I didn't walk away sooner), of my character under pressure - and it would be accurate.  But only partially accurate.  It is equally true that I was staying for my own reasons - because I was afraid and couldn't envision being single again. Because I allowed her to cross so many boundaries that my self esteem was in the gutter. Because I loved her (in many ways) more than I loved myself - and letting go of her created a feeling of terror in me that I can't quite describe. I need to look at all of it so I can heal what needs to be healed and move forward into the future as a whole human being who can enter into a healthy, fulfilling r/s.

And so I never EVER end up in another r/s like this one."

Everything you said above might as well have come from my mind. Everything. I was with my ex wife 20 years in total and then within 5 months in a 4 year relationship with my exBPD. I really don't know how to be single, nor do I enjoy it. I can be on my own, in other words I am not panicking because I have no one to love and hold, right now, but this is what I want. This is what I like. I care for my friends and they have their place in my life but I don't have this urge to be with them for any length of time. I like having a partner but I need to wait a little longer, although in all honesty, I suspect that if I were to find someone that it would aid in my healing. Like you, I am strong. Truth is that I had never intended for things with my exBPD to race to the levels they did. Suddenly she was being kicked out of her apartment and moving in. It felt natural because I spent 20 years living with a woman plus saying no would have left her in the street.

Anyway, I agree and feel everything you wrote. Thank you. There have been days, recently where I have said, maybe being on the board, at this point, is triggering my pain and I believe to some degree it is, but then I bump into comments, like yours that remind me that I am not alone. It is quite funny how we buzz through life at high velocity, seeing people in their cars and on the street and often times we say to ourselves "damn, they look calm, without a care in the world, I wish that was me" but if we could peek into their minds we would see that so many are wracked with pain, worried about bills, stressed about a failing relationship, the passing of a parent or sibling or worse child" In a way, we all wear a mask but never in a million years will I ever be able to appreciate what our exBPD's go through every day. On my worst day, I still felt and feel tremendous compassion and empathy. It crushed me when I finally realized what my ex had and continued to face, but my own survival depends on not allowing myself to feel that empathy now. I still feel it but suppress it to move forward. It played such a huge part in why I allowed my ex to step over so many boundaries.

Pleasure chatting with you, as always.

[Ripped Heart]

You did the right thing... .many others would have thrown them away but doing so would have blemished your integrity. I am sure it took a LOT to do that.

I tried to return a number of her possessions that mine left behind. The odd thing is; despite the inherent value of the stuff (many family heirlooms), she ultimately refused (through her sister as she would not respond to me at all) to get her stuff even when I offered it through an intermediary.

This left me wondering if she saw my offer to return her possessions and a act of aggression in which she responded with her power/control and refused it. Or, if she knew I would never dispose of these possessions hence leaving a trail of breadcrumbs back.

One of the most difficult aspects to this mess has been trying to figure things out with little or no information to go on.

I don't care to figure it out - the stuff is gone and I'm free and clear.

That's the right way to go about things and given how you reacted jhk, should there be a backlash you don't have to be emotionally involved in it. All you did was clear out your house, notice there were things you felt may be important to her and returned them without confrontation. That's the best possible outcome you can have.

People have spoken about the possibility of anger from her with you letting go this way. However, I think you need to be equally aware that it could go the opposite way too. Depending on how she feels at the time and what's going on in her life, she could also view this as you thinking about her and reach out to try and re-engage. Regardless of what may come next, you did the right thing and quite literally left what was her responsibility quite literally on her doorstep so that you can now move on with your life 

JRT, it's extremely difficult when you don't have info to go on and what happened within your situation. The one thing that keeps striking me with your situation around your ex's belongings is that you continue to keep putting her first. At some point (when you feel ready to do so) you need to look at putting your own feelings first 

[jhkbuzz]

People have spoken about the possibility of anger from her with you letting go this way. However, I think you need to be equally aware that it could go the opposite way too. Depending on how she feels at the time and what's going on in her life, she could also view this as you thinking about her and reach out to try and re-engage. Regardless of what may come next, you did the right thing and quite literally left what was her responsibility quite literally on her doorstep so that you can now move on with your life 

She texted me a simple "thank you" late last night. I didn't respond. I believe she appreciates that I dropped off the boxes; especially her late grandmother's things.  She and her grandmother were very close.

I don't believe there will be any backlash - I think it's done.

[HappyNihilist]

I think it's done.

 

I'm so happy for you, jhkbuzz. You've done amazing work and it's been beautiful to see you on your journey of self-discovery and healing.

You handled this with integrity and compassionate detachment, and took care of yourself first. 

[jhkbuzz]

Your hope has now turned towards you. It is a healthy defensive hope. It is a hope which prevents pain/hurt rather than delays it. The latter version is very unhealthy/damaging. Unfortunately, it is echoed across these boards by many, myself included. Indeed, your eyes are wide open. Congratulations on your new you!

Thank you for everything apollotech.  I'm going to remember that ^ quote for a long time.  It's a good one for me to remember.

[jhkbuzz]

"Thank you - the same to you!

Our stories are very similar, indeed. My painful days are fewer, less intense, and further between.  I could barely imagine that possibility 6 months ago.

The "pieces" quote, at least for me, is very much about love - self sacrificing love. I think there are times that I will decide put aside my own needs to meet the needs of someone else - especially because I am a strong person. But there's a time and a place for that, as well as a time and a place to have my own needs met.  Balance is the key; and my r/s got waaaaaaaaay out of balance.

My introspection is not undertaken with the intent to weaken myself, but to look at myself honestly. I can paint a very pretty picture of myself - of my strength, of my love for her, of my love for my step daughter (a huge part of the reason why I didn't walk away sooner), of my character under pressure - and it would be accurate.  But only partially accurate.  It is equally true that I was staying for my own reasons - because I was afraid and couldn't envision being single again. Because I allowed her to cross so many boundaries that my self esteem was in the gutter. Because I loved her (in many ways) more than I loved myself - and letting go of her created a feeling of terror in me that I can't quite describe. I need to look at all of it so I can heal what needs to be healed and move forward into the future as a whole human being who can enter into a healthy, fulfilling r/s.

And so I never EVER end up in another r/s like this one."

Everything you said above might as well have come from my mind. Everything. I was with my ex wife 20 years in total and then within 5 months in a 4 year relationship with my exBPD. I really don't know how to be single, nor do I enjoy it. I can be on my own, in other words I am not panicking because I have no one to love and hold, right now, but this is what I want. This is what I like. I care for my friends and they have their place in my life but I don't have this urge to be with them for any length of time. I like having a partner but I need to wait a little longer, although in all honesty, I suspect that if I were to find someone that it would aid in my healing. Like you, I am strong. Truth is that I had never intended for things with my exBPD to race to the levels they did. Suddenly she was being kicked out of her apartment and moving in. It felt natural because I spent 20 years living with a woman plus saying no would have left her in the street.

Anyway, I agree and feel everything you wrote. Thank you. There have been days, recently where I have said, maybe being on the board, at this point, is triggering my pain and I believe to some degree it is, but then I bump into comments, like yours that remind me that I am not alone. It is quite funny how we buzz through life at high velocity, seeing people in their cars and on the street and often times we say to ourselves "damn, they look calm, without a care in the world, I wish that was me" but if we could peek into their minds we would see that so many are wracked with pain, worried about bills, stressed about a failing relationship, the passing of a parent or sibling or worse child" In a way, we all wear a mask but never in a million years will I ever be able to appreciate what our exBPD's go through every day. On my worst day, I still felt and feel tremendous compassion and empathy. It crushed me when I finally realized what my ex had and continued to face, but my own survival depends on not allowing myself to feel that empathy now. I still feel it but suppress it to move forward. It played such a huge part in why I allowed my ex to step over so many boundaries.

Pleasure chatting with you, as always.

I understand the feeling about the boards - I have had the same thought that perhaps I should "go away" for a while because I don't want to endlessly self-identify as "the person who was wronged by someone with BPD." But I've come to realize that, even though I'm seeing a T, a HUGE part of my healing has come from these boards. The validation that comes from hearing similar stories and the wisdom from the people who have walked down this painful path before us is very, very powerful - so I think I'm going to stick around!

I understand your empathy for your ex - in spades.  My ex had an abusive past (abusive partners, rape) and I felt a tremendous amount of empathy for her - it's what allowed me to put up with the emotional abuse for so long.  And my empathy was so extreme that, 2 months after she moved out when I just happened to see her out on a date (saying goodnight in a parking lot to a guy that had to be around 6'3", my first thought was "Oh god, what if he hurts her?"

This is a woman who lied chronically, had sex with others while still in our r/s, broke up with me via email, and moved out right before I started seeing a T.

!

What I've come to understand is that my excessive sympathy/empathy for her depleted all the empathy and sympathy I should have had for myself.  And discovering how and why I ended up so completely disregarding my own needs and emotional health is my work with my T.

As for the other part of the post: looking at ourselves honestly to evaluate what we want to keep and what needs healed - it's an important process.  At first I was afraid to look; now I'm afraid not to.  There is much I will want to keep; my strength, my ability to self sacrifice, my big heart - keeping all of that!  But I want to look at the rest of it too, because there are definitely things that need to be healed.  Funny thing is that the closer I look at those things the less scary they are.

[jhkbuzz]

I think it's done.

 

I'm so happy for you, jhkbuzz. You've done amazing work and it's been beautiful to see you on your journey of self-discovery and healing.

You handled this with integrity and compassionate detachment, and took care of yourself first. 

Thank you!   Many of your posts have helped me on this journey of healing - MANY of them!

[Ripped Heart]

I understand the feeling about the boards - I have had the same thought that perhaps I should "go away" for a while because I don't want to endlessly self-identify as "the person who was wronged by someone with BPD."

Sometimes taking a step back or a time out isn't a bad thing at all. After my exN/BPDw hit me with the overnight divorce I made the choice to move out the following morning. Instead of going straight back to friends and family, I chose to take 3 months on my own where I traveled and did the things I wanted to do. Had I gone straight back to my own country, there would have been question after question because I hid the abuse from a lot of people and was isolated from those closest to me. I wasn't strong enough in myself to be faced with barrages of questions. Wish I had found these boards sooner but taking a step back really helped with perspective. Was also fortunate to have a job that allowed me to do that because I can work from anywhere so didn't have to sacrifice anything that was part of me.

There is a difference between us doing something like that, where we see it as a moment to heal, to gather back our strength and to heal. Compared in a sense to what someone with BPD may do and that's to run away or ignore what is going on.

I understand your empathy for your ex - in spades.  My ex had an abusive past (abusive partners, rape) and I felt a tremendous amount of empathy for her - it's what allowed me to put up with the emotional abuse for so long.  And my empathy was so extreme that, 2 months after she moved out when I just happened to see her out on a date (saying goodnight in a parking lot to a guy that had to be around 6'3", my first thought was "Oh god, what if he hurts her?"

This is similar to my position where exBPDgf is still part of my life in some capacity. You can still be empathetic towards others, even those who have hurt us though the key to it all is boundaries, both yours and theirs. Where I had the issue in my marriage was that like you I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused given what she had been through in her life and often made excuses for her behaviour or tried to protect her when she was being abusive.

Again with exBPDgf, I understand why she is the way she is and much of it was not her fault. Things happened in her life that she had no control or choice over so I held a lot of anger towards the people who had caused her that pain. She never had anyone in her life that could say "well done" or "I'm proud of you" so that's the person I chose to be for her now because in truth, I am proud of the positive steps she takes but the relationship side ended when she did have control over her own choices and chose to hurt those close to her.

What I've come to understand is that my excessive sympathy/empathy for her depleted all the empathy and sympathy I should have had for myself.  And discovering how and why I ended up so completely disregarding my own needs and emotional health is my work with my T.

This is common for many of us here and it isn't a bad thing at all. My worry on my journey of healing was that I feared going to the opposite end of the scale and having a lack of empathy towards others. The key is finding the balance and again it all comes down to boundaries. The way you handled the situation with your ex's belongings shows a lot of maturity and just how far you have come over recent months. That's the right level of compassion and empathy where you were able to consider how important these things are to your ex and give them back and at the same time protecting your own feelings and seeing it as a step forward. You didn't put yourself in danger or harms way in how you handled the situation, chose a suitable time that considered both parties and got the job done. That's the right level of empathy and compassion right there 

[jhkbuzz]

I understand your empathy for your ex - in spades.  My ex had an abusive past (abusive partners, rape) and I felt a tremendous amount of empathy for her - it's what allowed me to put up with the emotional abuse for so long.  And my empathy was so extreme that, 2 months after she moved out when I just happened to see her out on a date (saying goodnight in a parking lot to a guy that had to be around 6'3", my first thought was "Oh god, what if he hurts her?"

This is similar to my position where exBPDgf is still part of my life in some capacity. You can still be empathetic towards others, even those who have hurt us though the key to it all is boundaries, both yours and theirs. Where I had the issue in my marriage was that like you I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused given what she had been through in her life and often made excuses for her behaviour or tried to protect her when she was being abusive.

Ohmigod I've never seen that ^ put into words.  I was so protective of her that I didn't even tell her family what was going on... .it was as though I didn't want THEM to think badly of her. Her life (pragmatically) improved after she got into a r/s with me due to my stability - lots of career improvements, home to live in (instead of an apt across from section 8 renters), a car to drive... .they actually gained an entirely new respect for her and I didn't want to destroy that. What I failed to acknowledge was that she was making the decisions to destroy our r/s with her infidelities (driven by the disorder though it might have been); she was alone responsible for her family's opinion of her dishonesty and unfaithfulness if were they to find out - not me.  But I took responsibility for all of it and kept all of her secrets.

"I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused."  Wow. YES.

Again with exBPDgf, I understand why she is the way she is and much of it was not her fault. Things happened in her life that she had no control or choice over so I held a lot of anger towards the people who had caused her that pain. She never had anyone in her life that could say "well done" or "I'm proud of you" so that's the person I chose to be for her now because in truth, I am proud of the positive steps she takes but the relationship side ended when she did have control over her own choices and chose to hurt those close to her.

It's sad that they always do that... .

What I've come to understand is that my excessive sympathy/empathy for her depleted all the empathy and sympathy I should have had for myself.  And discovering how and why I ended up so completely disregarding my own needs and emotional health is my work with my T.

This is common for many of us here and it isn't a bad thing at all. My worry on my journey of healing was that I feared going to the opposite end of the scale and having a lack of empathy towards others. The key is finding the balance and again it all comes down to boundaries. The way you handled the situation with your ex's belongings shows a lot of maturity and just how far you have come over recent months. That's the right level of compassion and empathy where you were able to consider how important these things are to your ex and give them back and at the same time protecting your own feelings and seeing it as a step forward. You didn't put yourself in danger or harms way in how you handled the situation, chose a suitable time that considered both parties and got the job done. That's the right level of empathy and compassion right there  

Thank you  Yes, boundaries.  

Sometimes I wish that I could be there for my ex - as a friend - as you are doing - but I don't trust my boundaries enough to ever attempt it. And then I wonder about my desire to maintain a friendship at all after having been treated with such utter disrespect, dishonesty and lack of loyalty.  Makes me think I have more work to do.  

[Turkish]

My Ex rudely left a lot of her things in our/my home when she left, despite having months to prepare. Part of it may have been to keep that connection, like she wanted carte blanche to return to visit any time (she wanted to keep the keys to the house, but I asked for them back). Part of it may have also been dissociative. Like you, I returned most of it, shuttling bags and boxes over to her mom's every week. I let her come in 2 weeks after she left, but that was the last time. She still tried to come over, but my boundaries have remained firm, despite her waifish comments ("I know you don't want me to come over, but... .". Many months later, I found a small box with stuff she had from a previous r/s, along with an old journal she stopped writing about the time she met me. Other than regifting a new watch in its box that her previous bf gave her, but she never took out or wore, I returned that stuff to her, too. I donated the watch to a charity Christmas giving tree 

[jhkbuzz]

My Ex rudely left a lot of her things in our/my home when she left, despite having months to prepare. Part of it may have been to keep that connection, like she wanted carte blanche to return to visit any time (she wanted to keep the keys to the house, but I asked for them back). Part of it may have also been dissociative. Like you, I returned most of it, shuttling bags and boxes over to her mom's every week. I let her come in 2 weeks after she left, but that was the last time. She still tried to come over, but my boundaries have remained firm, despite her waifish comments ("I know you don't want me to come over, but... .". Many months later, I found a small box with stuff she had from a previous r/s, along with an old journal she stopped writing about the time she met me. Other than regifting a new watch in its box that her previous bf gave her, but she never took out or wore, I returned that stuff to her, too. I donated the watch to a charity Christmas giving tree 

They're all part of the steps we take to give ourselves closure - yes? 

[Turkish]

My Ex rudely left a lot of her things in our/my home when she left, despite having months to prepare. Part of it may have been to keep that connection, like she wanted carte blanche to return to visit any time (she wanted to keep the keys to the house, but I asked for them back). Part of it may have also been dissociative. Like you, I returned most of it, shuttling bags and boxes over to her mom's every week. I let her come in 2 weeks after she left, but that was the last time. She still tried to come over, but my boundaries have remained firm, despite her waifish comments ("I know you don't want me to come over, but... .". Many months later, I found a small box with stuff she had from a previous r/s, along with an old journal she stopped writing about the time she met me. Other than regifting a new watch in its box that her previous bf gave her, but she never took out or wore, I returned that stuff to her, too. I donated the watch to a charity Christmas giving tree 

They're all part of the steps we take to give ourselves closure - yes? 

I think closure needs these steps. Doing nothing results in nothing, though I think it's ok to sit with our emotions for a while, in order not to invalidate ourselves, like "I should feel like X and this date... ." etc. A year out, and I am still angry. I have the rest of my life not to hold onto it though.

[jhkbuzz]

My Ex rudely left a lot of her things in our/my home when she left, despite having months to prepare. Part of it may have been to keep that connection, like she wanted carte blanche to return to visit any time (she wanted to keep the keys to the house, but I asked for them back). Part of it may have also been dissociative. Like you, I returned most of it, shuttling bags and boxes over to her mom's every week. I let her come in 2 weeks after she left, but that was the last time. She still tried to come over, but my boundaries have remained firm, despite her waifish comments ("I know you don't want me to come over, but... .". Many months later, I found a small box with stuff she had from a previous r/s, along with an old journal she stopped writing about the time she met me. Other than regifting a new watch in its box that her previous bf gave her, but she never took out or wore, I returned that stuff to her, too. I donated the watch to a charity Christmas giving tree  

They're all part of the steps we take to give ourselves closure - yes?  

I think closure needs these steps. Doing nothing results in nothing, though I think it's ok to sit with our emotions for a while, in order not to invalidate ourselves, like "I should feel like X and this date... ." etc. A year out, and I am still angry. I have the rest of my life not to hold onto it though.

Yes - actions (when you can take them) are really important. People forget that - they think "feelings" should magically change - but it's the actions we take that produce the real changes.

Although I feel a lot of my emotionality dissipating, I understand the anger - especially because my ex cheated on me.  Strange thing is, though, that while I'm working on forgiveness - especially because I think she will suffer tremendously with her shame for years into the future - I don't think I'll let go of my "righteous" anger.  My righteous anger is a healthy anger, a boundary line that says "I won't ever allow anyone to treat me with such disregard ever again." But boiling hot anger - the kind that makes me want to go tell her off and punch a wall?  Nearly gone.

[Grey Kitty]

Where I had the issue in my marriage was that like you I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused given what she had been through in her life and often made excuses for her behaviour or tried to protect her when she was being abusive.

This is a good realization. There is another explanation as to how easily you can fall trap to that belief:

It is what the abusive pwBPD actually believes... .and they work very hard to pull you into this version of reality with them!

I read a description of abuse that went like this: The abuser honestly believes that the victim is abusing them by refusing to let them control the victim.

And the pain the abuser is feeling is very real too. I know that when my wife was behaving abusively toward me, I was always aware that she was hurting more than she was inflicting pain upon me.

So the concept that you had this 'reality' pushed on you and you accepted it... .perhaps shouldn't be that big of a surprise.

And no, none of it excuses any of the abuse.

[jhkbuzz]

Where I had the issue in my marriage was that like you I had too much empathy towards my exN/BPDw and instead of seeing her as the abuser, saw her as the abused given what she had been through in her life and often made excuses for her behaviour or tried to protect her when she was being abusive.

This is a good realization. There is another explanation as to how easily you can fall trap to that belief:

It is what the abusive pwBPD actually believes... .and they work very hard to pull you into this version of reality with them!

I read a description of abuse that went like this: The abuser honestly believes that the victim is abusing them by refusing to let them control the victim.

And the pain the abuser is feeling is very real too. I know that when my wife was behaving abusively toward me, I was always aware that she was hurting more than she was inflicting pain upon me.

So the concept that you had this 'reality' pushed on you and you accepted it... .perhaps shouldn't be that big of a surprise.

And no, none of it excuses any of the abuse.

Those are some really interesting thoughts, GK.  I know my ex genuinely suffered as well... .it was always confusing to me. My sense is that, if I were to talk with her today, she would still view herself as the victim in our relationship.  Even though she lied, cheated, and then left.

And this: "they work very hard to pull you into this version of reality with them!"

8 months out and I am still trying to sort it all out.

[Grey Kitty]

And this: "they work very hard to pull you into this version of reality with them!"

8 months out and I am still trying to sort it all out.

 You will get there. Eventually. At least working out which part is yours.

My path was different--I figured out the abusive behavior... .enforced boundaries... .and my wife figured it out and STOPPED it, a few years back. It was some real hard work on both of our parts, kinda done in sequence... .but that was already worked through before I had to process the end of our marriage.