Why is his friend insisting on giving me information about him?

[mitti]

Hi everybody,

I haven't been here in a while. Currently we are not really on speaking terms and I told my uBPDxbf to not contact me again (first time ever I am the one to tell him that) - too long a story - we got back together and then broke up again, (sigh) you get the picture. The reason I post on this board is that I realize that keeping him out of my life is going to be difficult, partly because our social groups now overlap and partly because he seems dead set on staying in it.

I would really appreciate your opinion on what the possible reason might be for a mutual friend's insisting on giving me information about him. She was his friend first and then I got to know her through a dance group we were all in and I became friends with her also. She and I met for coffee the other day and I ended up telling her some of our recent story, as I know he has been lying about me and twisting things. But I didn't blame or accuse him, only admitted I felt sad about how it had all ended up but at the same time told her I was not angry with him and felt glad he had a friend like her. She was very sweet and understanding. Apparently he has told her he feels sorry for me so it seems he is leading her to believe he broke up with me. He has in the past told her I was chasing him so I assume he will stick to that story.

I know he is trying to get my attention somehow because he has turned up where I go and while I hang out with my friends, dancing and talking, he just stands there by himself. In the past these sort of situations would feel almost intolerable to him but now he is choosing to be in them, but also hasn't approached me.

Then a couple of days ago I run into her at a different place. As soon as we have said "hi" she informs me my ex is there. I just casually respond, "ok, I haven't seen him" and move on to talk about something else. In the brief exchange we had because the music was loud, she mentioned him and that he was there and where was he, perhaps in that other room bla bla, about 5-6 times, as though she was urging me to go find him. I would have understood it if she had said it more like a warning because she thought I would feel heartbroken seeing him there. I asked her later if they had talked since she and I had talked but apparently they hadn't, but he may have told her to not tell me. I would expect for her to feel her loyalties lie with him.

He is very passive (aggressive) and in the past when he wants to get back in touch he will throw out a feeler to get me to do all the work and thus avoid all responsibility and have the option to blame me for chasing him when he panics.

I see that we have to sort out our situation somehow but I am just trying to understand as much as I can for now, so that is why I ask for your opinion. Many thanks in advance.

[mitti]

I have since heard from the friend that he is wanting to talk to me, get back together and that he feels bad for everything that has happened. It is so different this time around because we now have a mutual social group he cannot bad-mouth me to. They all like me and he knows that. This also means that whatever he does as of now, any push-pull, passive aggressiveness or silent treatment will become obvious to everybody around us. Actually this makes me feel safer and protected.

[Loosestrife]

this triangle sounds very immature and unhealthy. I would tell your friend that you value their friendship but you do not want to discuss your relationship with them.

[mitti]

this triangle sounds very immature and unhealthy. I would tell your friend that you value their friendship but you do not want to discuss your relationship with them.

Hi Loosestrife, why would it be immature? I actually appreciate her willingness to mediate since we need to function around each other.

[Lucky Jim]

I have since heard from the friend that he is wanting to talk to me, get back together and that he feels bad for everything that has happened.

Hey Mitti, After I read your first post, I expected that it would play out this way.  Like Loosestrife, I am unclear why you need a go-between.  If he wants to see you, he can contact you directly.  If you don't want to see him, you are free to decline.  Have you considered going to other venues where your Ex is unlikely to hang out?  What is it that you would like to see happen?

LuckyJim

[mitti]

Hi LuckyJim,

Actually now in hindsight I feel surprised I also did not get it at first. I work with dance and he keeps going to classes where I either go or assist and this is how we now have an overlapping circle of friends. I have been doing this for 30 years of my life and it is virtually impossible to do without running into each other. I am not giving it up for him or anybody.

A go-between or mediator that both he and I trust is just so much easier than immediately getting into a similar dynamic as the all the other times. Also it gives me the freedom to communicate what I want in a different way to before. I think my ignoring him has "done him good" but I still have feelings for him and keeping him out of my life seems difficult. I have been trying to meet somebody else but haven't met anybody I like that much yet, and now he appears again. Well, it makes things difficult as I still have feelings for him. At least now he gets to see that things really have changed. He is doing the same as before but can see it isn't working this time, so if he wants something he needs to change what he is doing. And that, I have realised, is what I want, for him to do things differently from before.

[Loosestrife]

this triangle sounds very immature and unhealthy. I would tell your friend that you value their friendship but you do not want to discuss your relationship with them.

Hi Loosestrife, why would it be immature? I actually appreciate her willingness to mediate since we need to function around each other.

I personally don't think a mutual friend is the right person to mediate as it can't easily become triangulation and messages from a go between can get interpreted wrongly. It's much healthier to meet with your BPD partner 1:1 and talk. But, hey if this seems to be working for you, then great. There seem to be mixed opinions on the forum re: couples T too. Do trust your mutual friend not to have any other agenda other than to help the two of you?

[mitti]

You are probably right both of you and personally I would prefer to just talk to him directly. That is what I would do with anybody else in my life. It just seems that with a pwBPD a normal healthy approach isn't always the one that works best for you, or within a time frame that feels acceptable.

I just want for him to stop what he is doing, and just come out and tell me what it is he wants. He may be more honest with a friend than with me for now.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey mitti, I find your situation interesting because, on some level, no one wants to be the one to confront a pwBPD, so it makes sense to me why you might need a go-between.  If you try to have a frank conversation with one's BPD SO about the r/s, it is unlikely to go well, so there seems a natural tendency to look for an intermediary.  Yet that's symptomatic of a BPD r/s, in my view, because you end up avoiding the harsh truths with your SO for fear of an explosion.

LuckyJim

[mitti]

You are right LuckyJim, but what I fear at this point is not an explosion but a loss of momentum and going back to a place that feels very uncomfortable for me, the not knowing. The breakup, like all other breakups with him, felt painful, but this time it was my decision to ask him to stay away. He stayed away for almost two months. Now since he started turning up where I go, talking to my friends and definitely not angry, and apparently really wanting some kind of reconciliation, I have realised I do want to talk to him about us, because something very different happened this time and I want for that to work in my favor as far as is possible. But usually when I 'help him out' to approach me, he slows down and allows his fears and panics to dictate the pace and then we don't get anywhere, and that feels very uncomfortable and unsafe for me.

Not sure I explained that right but that is where I would prefer to get to. That being said I am starting to feel that I should just call him and ask him what it is that he wants.

[Lucky Jim]

But usually when I 'help him out' to approach me, he slows down and allows his fears and panics to dictate the pace and then we don't get anywhere, and that feels very uncomfortable and unsafe for me.

If the above is your pattern, I am unclear why you are inclined to "help him out" again by calling him up and asking what it is that he wants.  What would you like to see happen?  LuckyJim

[mitti]

If the above is your pattern, I am unclear why you are inclined to "help him out" again by calling him up and asking what it is that he wants.  What would you like to see happen?  LuckyJim

I want for him to DO when he wants something done, but if and when I want something, then I do. That is the difference. Sometimes they coincide. Helping out is when I notice he wants something but is reluctant or fearful or whatever and tries to either move me/manipulate to do it instead of him. If I want to know something and approach him, then it is not because I see he wants something but because I want something, or what I don't want, such as wait and see how this is going to play out among the people I hang with. That I do not want. These two things may coincide but that is not going to hinder me from doing what I want, when I want it. 

At the moment I want to know what he wants.

[Lucky Jim]

At the moment I want to know what he wants.

Who cares what he wants? I'm being flip, yet I suggest you try to follow a path that is right for you, that works for you, rather than base your decisions on his needs/wants, which are a moving target, in my view.  LJ

[mitti]

Who cares what he wants? I'm being flip, yet I suggest you try to follow a path that is right for you, that works for you, rather than base your decisions on his needs/wants, which are a moving target, in my view.  LJ

I care because this is not working for me. I am not basing my decisions on what he wants but on what I want. Sorry but you are wrong there.

[Lucky Jim]

OK, good.  I stand corrected!  LJ

[Loosestrife]

Going back yo your original question (post subject), have you asked your friend?

[mitti]

Have you asked your friend?

Actually, I had a conversation with her the other day because he has talked to her and she approached me. She seemed a little taken aback when she heard my side of things though I was in no way trying to make him come off in a bad light. I realize they are friends also, and in fact I told her I felt grateful on his behalf that he has her as a friend because all of his other friends are domineering, manipulative people.

Anyway, I told her that I respect their friendship and what I told her is no secret so she can choose herself whether she wants to talk to him.

She told me today that she has not yet talked to him but intends to when she sees him.

[Elizabeth22]

Who cares what he wants? I'm being flip, yet I suggest you try to follow a path that is right for you, that works for you, rather than base your decisions on his needs/wants, which are a moving target, in my view.  LJ

I care because this is not working for me. I am not basing my decisions on what he wants but on what I want. Sorry but you are wrong there.

Hi, just wondering. You want a third person in your relationship? I don't think I understand. The title of this thread asks why does his friend insist on giving you information about him? But it seems you want it that way?  Thank you.

[despr8]

Hi Mitti, I have a few years experience with BPD with my wife... .we always want to fix them or try to cause them to stop doing these things that cause our relationship problems but the real issue lye's within them and we can find ourselves hoping for something that may never happen... .if your not permanently connected to him then I would suggest moving on asap... .because working with someone with BPD in a relationship is very challenging and always will be so count the cost before deciding to allowing him back in your life ... .and having a mediator friend is and will never be healthy for you it will inevitably only help him... .just remember to value yourself at all time through all the ciaos... .good luck , despr8       

[mitti]

You want a third person in your relationship? I don't think I understand. The title of this thread asks why does his friend insist on giving you information about him? But it seems you want it that way?  Thank you.

Hi Elizabeth22,

No, it's not that I want a third person involved. She insisted giving me info about him and bringing him up in convo when the only thing I had told her about it was a brief explanation as to why we were no longer really on talking terms. Then she tells me he feels bad and wants to talk to me. He probably says that to avoid responsibility and get me to approach him. Anyway, a mediator can sometimes say the same thing in a way a person can hear it more easily. People do it all the time. What I want is for this situation where he keeps turning up where I go without taking any responsibility to stop.

[mitti]

Hi Mitti, I have a few years experience with BPD with my wife... .we always want to fix them or try to cause them to stop doing these things that cause our relationship problems but the real issue lye's within them and we can find ourselves hoping for something that may never happen... .if your not permanently connected to him then I would suggest moving on asap... .because working with someone with BPD in a relationship is very challenging and always will be so count the cost before deciding to allowing him back in your life ... .and having a mediator friend is and will never be healthy for you it will inevitably only help him... .just remember to value yourself at all time through all the ciaos... .good luck , despr8       

Hi despr8,

Yes, I know it feels difficult to give up hope. I have known this man for over 6 years and for many of those we were together, we are not now. Moving on has proved difficult because he is now coming after me, he goes where I go, either to have me approach him and when I don't to deliberately upset me, he is very passive aggressive. Not sure I agree though that a mediator is always bad or that it will necessarily serve him. I agree that it probably won't help us in this case.

Thank you for your support and kind words

[Sunfl0wer]

I have since heard from the friend that he is wanting to talk to me, get back together and that he feels bad for everything that has happened. It is so different this time around because we now have a mutual social group he cannot bad-mouth me to. They all like me and he knows that. This also means that whatever he does as of now, any push-pull, passive aggressiveness or silent treatment will become obvious to everybody around us. Actually this makes me feel safer and protected.

What stood out to me is the above words.  This is because the same idea is what I had considered and I thought having a set of eyes over the r/s would really help us.

Once my uBPDexbf and I began therapy, he immediately "changed."  It was obvious that he just wanted to always be viewed by T as the "all good one."  He immediately stopped many of his bad behaviors because he was afraid that if we had unresolved issues that we would be talking about them in therapy, and he did not want the therapist to ever hear bad things about him, so he gave the illusion of having resolved issues with me.

So yes, having another person observe the r/s did seem to serve to give our r/s the appearance of improving, and actually DID cause some improvements.

However, there remained the inner conflict within him that he was never addressing.  He was suppressing much behavior and eventually it would seep out in other ways or he would find more insidious ways to let out the same behaviors that he was suppressing.

The result was a false appearance that things were getting better.

Looking back, this "fake it till you make it" concept may have been more likely to benefit a non disordered individual.  For him, I believe it didn't work, because there is too much inner conflicts that remain, or even become inflamed through this "faking."  So essentially, his "mask" just got more elaborate during this time, but he was still the same underneath.

[HoldingAHurricane]

Ultimately, only she knows why but involving herself in your relationship, acting as mediator, and being a confidant to both sides doesn't seem like a particularly healthy thing to do really. Maybe its her way of fulfilling her own needs for intimacy, gives her a purpose, or fulfills a desire to be the white knight? Despite her persistence, you can decide if it feels right for you to have a less direct relationship with your partner by accepting her input. One of the difficulties in having a go-between is that they hold a lot of power in when and how a message is delivered which means you lose come measure of control over your relationship and messages get distorted, even unintentionally. 

[mitti]

I thought having a set of eyes over the r/s would really help us.

Once my uBPDexbf and I began therapy, he immediately "changed."  It was obvious that he just wanted to always be viewed by T as the "all good one."  He immediately stopped many of his bad behaviors because he was afraid that if we had unresolved issues that we would be talking about them in therapy, and he did not want the therapist to ever hear bad things about him, so he gave the illusion of having resolved issues with me.

So yes, having another person observe the r/s did seem to serve to give our r/s the appearance of improving, and actually DID cause some improvements.

However, there remained the inner conflict within him that he was never addressing.  He was suppressing much behavior and eventually it would seep out in other ways or he would find more insidious ways to let out the same behaviors that he was suppressing.

The result was a false appearance that things were getting better.

Looking back, this "fake it till you make it" concept may have been more likely to benefit a non disordered individual.  For him, I believe it didn't work, because there is too much inner conflicts that remain, or even become inflamed through this "faking."  So essentially, his "mask" just got more elaborate during this time, but he was still the same underneath.

Hi Sunfl0wer, 

For me it was actually mainly that I thought that, either she would possibly get through to him where I might not because of the conflict we have had for the past two months, or that she actually gets to see his true self. Most - if not all - people in our mutual circle of friends think of him as this really timid and sweet man, that wouldn't hurt a fly. A little peculiar perhaps but definitely not prone to temper tantrums and any other typical BPD behaviors. Many of them also don't even know that we had a long relationship before.

What has felt so difficult, and shameful for me, are the many distortions of the truth that he has led people to believe about me, such as telling his other friends that I was this super jealous unstable psycho girlfriend stalking him. Because of that I am cautious and careful not to seem to chase him and not contact him, even when I know he wants to unless that is perfectly clear to other people as well. Actually that did become clear to a lot of people only a few days ago, but will write an update in a while.

We were in T as well together for about a year. He did stick to promises and such made in T and he did try very hard to understand and acknowledge his patterns of behavior and I didn't really see any pretending or faking good behavior.

[mitti]

Ultimately, only she knows why but involving herself in your relationship, acting as mediator, and being a confidant to both sides doesn't seem like a particularly healthy thing to do really. Maybe its her way of fulfilling her own needs for intimacy, gives her a purpose, or fulfills a desire to be the white knight? Despite her persistence, you can decide if it feels right for you to have a less direct relationship with your partner by accepting her input. One of the difficulties in having a go-between is that they hold a lot of power in when and how a message is delivered which means you lose come measure of control over your relationship and messages get distorted, even unintentionally. 

Hi HoldingAHurricane, 

Actually, I never considered this, what it means for her. She is very sweet but with somewhat slack boundaries in that she is a little too familiar sometimes. That being said I think she genuinely is trying to help. But yes, you are right of course she has a lot of power in how the message is delivered and possibly distorted and I think this is what has happened though it would be totally unintentional on her part.

[mitti]

My friend has kept bringing him up in conversation and so I asked if she had talked to him but she said she hadn't. Later that same day though she got back to me to tell me he had called her and they had ended up talking about me. I got this info on the FB chat and so I have no details about what was said or exactly how he responded but it seemed clear he wasn't too happy.

That same evening I was performing. She had told him about this and I feel sure he knew anyway. I go to this place all the time and know most of the people there. He is hardly ever there and doesn't really know anybody. But he turns up, with another woman. His behavior was passive aggressive and this friend came up to me later in the evening to ask me what had happened to him, because he was ignoring her. She seemed really worried. I felt sorry for her and had to explain a little better about his attachment disorder and that he probably reacted that way because somehow he had perceived that she was on "my side". And I know he is angry with me, because I have not "helped" him talk to me by my contacting him first.

It was not a nice experience any of it, of course, as it never is when he has a BPD reaction, but this time most of our mutual friends that know both of us, even though they may not know our story, saw a behavior in him that was really off. Many people came up to me to tell me they now see that he is not leaving me alone and that it was so obvious he was only there to upset me. They have been very supportive of me and that has felt very good.