How can we observe BPD drama without participating in it

[formflier]

History:  Another poster was talking about going from resentment to frustration... .and that frustration ... .while painful for a few minutes... .passes.  Resentment lingers.

Getting to the point of more frustration... .less resentment was a process.  I want to be better at this... .to acknowledge that the BPD drama is "frustrating"... .but to let it roll off... and I keep pressing on.

Yesterday was first full day of wife being back in the house after being gone on a trip with oldest daughter for a week.

Of course there was drama... .there was also good stuff.  I was really struck by the large swings in her emotions... .I observed this... .but didn't participate... .just pressed on.

Other than me typing about it right now... .those swings aren't affecting my day... especially not in a negative way.  I'm hoping to learn something here... .or get better at something.  That would be positive.

So... rather than get into the she said this... and I said that of what went down yesterday... .I'm trying to think about how I was able to leave the drama in the past... .and not have it affect my outlook today. 

What have others found helpful to accomplish this? 


FF

[EaglesJuju]

FF,

From my experience, my resentment was a cause of how I perceived my bf's behavior.  I tended to not balance my emotions and thoughts. Most of the time, the frustration led to resentment because, I took everything personally. The majority of the time my emotions eclipsed my logical thoughts.

I have let things roll of my back, but sometimes when I suppressed my own feelings, I ended up being angry. This can happen often, when we are constantly internalizing our feelings of frustration. It is inevitable with bottling all that frustration up for a long period of time, that we will explode or become resentful. 

It is a balance of acknowledging my own feelings, while learning to radically accept the behaviors of my bf.  I see it as picking and choosing my battles. There are certain behaviors that really upset me. On those occasions, I express my feelings to my bf.  Although, I know I cannot change his behavior, it makes me feel validated that I can express my thoughts and feelings.

[waverider]

I think one of the things that holds you back is that it is your nature to be a "fixer". Hence feeling like you are having to go back and fix it again " " is exasperating. It also stops the ability to shrug it off as "not my problem" without that in itself being a "lesson" to help fix the other person.

At first I found it difficult to let things go without really caring about achieving some kind of resolution. Even doing nothing in itself was a deliberate attempt to reach a goal. Now I can just let the cards fall as they will at times, even if I know that in itself could be triggering. I dont always even attempt to avoid triggering. That is a choice, and that is letting things go.

It is unnatural, almost an acceptance that it is too hard and letting go of the wheel. Ultimately though it is not steering someone down the right path it is about not over stressing ourselves, which is closely tied in with resentment.

A turning point may have been when I came to accept my partner is unlikely ever to be free of this. Maybe the cancer scare brought about a sense of running out of time. I expect that we will hobble along in our own dysfunctional way until health physically, or mentally, deteriorates completely. I am more focused about getting along with minimal conflict and enjoying life that trying to chase pipe dreams.

[Grey Kitty]

I think how much you take things personally when your partner does something frustrating/difficult plays into it a lot.

If you can accept that your partner is this way, and is doing it for reasons that have NOTHING to do with you, even if they are blaming you for it, you won't be building resentment.

If you are trying to use sheer willpower to stop yourself from reacting badly under provocation, you are probably suppressing your feelings about it... .and they will build up.

Another thing that helps is to give yourself some space when you are starting to take it personally. Just because you *CAN* do the hard work of being kind and supportive doesn't mean you should always do it. In other words, when you know resentment is building up... .you can turn off the faucet!

[formflier]

 

I'm amazed to say that I never thought about the concept of "not taking things personally" until this past summer.

The family T that was working with us during our separation talked about that a lot.

It was eye opening to me then... .and still a "relatively" new concept to me.  I still struggle with "this is my wife... that is saying this to me... .of course it is personal... " (which is my old thinking)

[Scarlet Phoenix]

This has been a hard one for me. I carried a lot of resentment, most of it gone now. I went through a face where I did really well with radical acceptance and loving detachment. Sometimes I would get frustrated in the moment, but for the most part it went really well. Lately though, I seem to have slipped back to resentment. Not that I take things personally now, and I certainly don't feel anxious or scared anymore. I'm just so frustrated that whatever he has to give is all he has to give  

He has been in therapy for a while, so I know he has a lot of insight into his behaviors, and it starts to frustrate me to no end that he still does the things he does. I guess I just want a loving, "heart open", supportive relationship. If I don't get over these feelings, the relationship is not going to last. For he still has BPD, and it's not going away for the time being. But I don't want to "get over" wanting that, wanting something healthy and stable. The relationship worked for me as long as I also was struggling with my own dysfunctions (co-dependence, anxiety, depression). I have worked hard, though, and have come through a healthier, better version of me. dBPDh is not there yet... .

So what to do when the resentment comes back for a second go-around?  

[vortex of confusion]

I am more focused about getting along with minimal conflict and enjoying life that trying to chase pipe dreams.

That is what I am trying to work towards as well. I am trying to learn how to keep my mouth shut but there are times when I reach a point where I feel like I have to say something and let the chips fall where they may.

I am feeling a lot of resentments bubbling up again and I don't like it because it clouds my ability to keep focused on getting along with minimal conflict.

I think the resentment starts building when I get caught up in the pipe dream that this time will be different. This time isn't going to be different. It is likely going to have the same end that it usually does. If I can keep that in mind, I think it might help me keep the resentment levels down and stay at the level of frustration.

[waverider]

The problem with resentment is that they feel it, probe you about it. You lie about it, they sense it and the whole thing is a trigger to them. You resent then not being able to talk about it. Even though they think it ok to bend your ear for hours feeling sorry for themselves. You get swept away in all the inequality of it (again).

Keeping your mouth shut works a whole lot better when you are at a point where you dont have the desire to actually say something.

[vortex of confusion]

Keeping your mouth shut works a whole lot better when you are at a point where you dont have the desire to actually say something.

Do you have any tips on how to get to a point where you don't have the desire to actually say something? 

[waverider]

Keeping your mouth shut works a whole lot better when you are at a point where you dont have the desire to actually say something.

Do you have any tips on how to get to a point where you don't have the desire to actually say something?  

Not really thats the hard thing, it just evolves, you can't make it happen. Even tying to make it happen is over thinking it.

I guess if it is anything it is to learn to stop over thinking and analyzing everything that is said and done. take the carers hat off, but you wont be comfortable doing that until you are confident in putting out any fires if they flare up.

Wont say you will ever be able to do it 24/7 but it does become more natural. Allowing the odd bust up out of frustration blows some of the residual away.

When we do have a bust up now and then it rarely escalates as there is full awareness that there is a big boundary shutter that can, and will, be pulled down when necessary.

I have no doubt that this will be much harder the higher functioning the pwBPD

[zundertowz]

I got to the point where words meant nothing to me, it was like a young child calling me names.  The threats, scenes, and physical abuse was a whole nother story.

[Oooohm]

The problem with resentment is that they feel it, probe you about it. You lie about it, they sense it and the whole thing is a trigger to them. You resent them not being able to talk about it.

Yup... .!

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hello everyone!  Formflier thanks for starting this topic.    I have been feeling better about the communication between my s/o and myself since I have taken a hard look at my part in the drama.  It has been difficult to change my desire to prove i am right.  Now I am trying to let his thoughts be his thoughts/opinions and mine be mine.  I am trying to listen without trying to formulate a response before he finishes talking.  Now i find it easier just to listen and be an observer rather than jumping into the fray.  So nice just to listen and let it pass me by!  Ahhh.

For example, he often talks about work problems. He doesn't usually ask my opinion.  However, in the past I oftrn tried to explain what he should have done.  How I would have handled it, etc.  or he will tell me about a problem he has had with a friend.  I used to be frustrated because he didn't handle it the way i would have.  Of course he didn't handle it the way I would have.  he will never handle things like me.  that is ok.  i can accept that.  Acceptance has cut down on drama.


Now I also see that my tendency is to JADE myself.  In the past the more I tried to justify, explain, argue or defend my position, the more resentful i became at not being understood.   He didn't understand me usually, didn't agree with me and  it just through me into a victim stance by explaining, defending, etc.  he doesn't have to agree with me.  I am separate from him.  I am not enmeshed with him any longer.

I agree with Waverider, keeping my mouth shut is often a wise decision.  Sometimes this irritates my s/o also.  He is annoyed by short answers, but often avoids an outright argument.

Also, it makes me feel better to avoid drama.

Scarlet Phoenix, i would like a "heart open" r/s with my husband.  I have to admit, sometimes (not too often) we have this.  I am grateful for those times.  Other times, I rely on my other family and close friends for this.  

I think before i began accepting the limitations of my r/s (and every r/s is limited in some way), that i expected my marriage to be everything.  I was lazy in my other relationships, yet worked so, so hard on the primary r/s with my husband.  Now I have tried to strengthen those other ties.  To be supportive and get support, too.

[Oooohm]

Keeping your mouth shut works a whole lot better when you are at a point where you dont have the desire to actually say something.

pwBPD (My opinion) have an overwhelming fear of being perceived as "not normal". (This assumes they actually have a bit of self awareness). If you participate in the "drama" they see your "interaction" (IE Frustration reaction to their dysregulation) with them as "normal" therefore they feel normal. (You have... .provided them a safe environment to Dysregulate)

If you say nothing they perceive it as either you don't care about them or whatever it is they are feeling is not important to you.  This may de-escalate the situation in the moment... .but we all here know it will "bite you in the ass" later. (Couple hours to a couple days later... .BOOM !)

I offer up an alternative:  Point to 'normal' and hope they eventually mimic it, and don't be afraid to point to 'not normal'

Example:  Your response: (Very calm voice... .show you care) "Hmmm... .that was strange. Do you feel better now? I hope you do."

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Scarlet Phoenix, i would like a "heart open" r/s with my husband.  I have to admit, sometimes (not too often) we have this.  I am grateful for those times.  Other times, I rely on my other family and close friends for this. 

Hi Mustbeabetterway    It happens sometimes in my relationship, and it frustrates me that I get glimpses of it and then it disappears behind the BPD-wall again. I do get support from friends, but I am more and more sure that I can't live without it in my relationship with my husband.

I think before i began accepting the limitations of my r/s (and every r/s is limited in some way), that i expected my marriage to be everything.  I was lazy in my other relationships, yet worked so, so hard on the primary r/s with my husband.  Now I have tried to strengthen those other ties.  To be supportive and get support, too.

That's great!  Is it having an effect on your relationship with your husband?

[ColdEthyl]

What I have trouble with is validating feelings at times, especially if what's he's saying is nonsense. For an example, he claims he doesn't talk to my D15 as often because every time he does my brother "stares at him and paces back and forth ever single time" ... .this behavior was observed once and only once. It's even possible he was pacing about something else all together, but the timing suggested to my H that it was about him.

When he brings that up... .I have no idea how to validate that. It's born from his own paranoia. I usually say "I understand how you might feel that way" but that comes off as invalidating, because he will say he doesn't FEEL that way, he KNOWS it. So, usually I nod and say nothing.

It has been difficult to change my desire to prove i am right.  Now I am trying to let his thoughts be his thoughts/opinions and mine be mine.  I am trying to listen without trying to formulate a response before he finishes talking.  Now i find it easier just to listen and be an observer rather than jumping into the fray.  So nice just to listen and let it pass me by!  Ahhh

Quit often I find myself having a difficult time doing this. When he starts off on some tangent that's inaccurate, it drives me up the wall. I'm trying really really hard to put this into practice. Did this just come easier for you over time?

I have found it's a lot easier for me to not take things personally if I know where they are coming from. The name calling and insults don't bother me at all... .it's like having a child call me a stinky head. For an example, My H last night was pretty dysregulated. He's dealing with his parents moving... .he's afraid he won't see them alive again, and I knew he would take any opportunity to try to start a fight. So, I mentally prepared myself for that before I got home from work.

When I got home, within a few hours he was talking about a ummm... .ED issue we had the night before. He started telling me I was doing this or that wrong... .then he cried and said how bad he felt about himself. A few minutes later, my cell phone gives off a half a ring from a phone number and area code I do not recognize. He starts in on "Tell your bf not to be calling here when you are home! Did he leave a message? Awww... .sorry your BF didn't leave a message!"

Since he was JUST talking about how bad he felt about the other night, and how I 'deserve better', I knew exactly where this was coming from. I just said "I love you, baby. I do not and have not had a boyfriend, except for you, sweet husband." And he calmed down.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Scarlet Phoenix, i would like a "heart open" r/s with my husband.  I have to admit, sometimes (not too often) we have this.  I am grateful for those times.  Other times, I rely on my other family and close friends for this. 

Hi Mustbeabetterway    It happens sometimes in my relationship, and it frustrates me that I get glimpses of it and then it disappears behind the BPD-wall again. I do get support from friends, but I am more and more sure that I can't live without it in my relationship with my husband.

Hi ScarletPhoenix,  the glimpses are frustrating for me, too.  But, we have been together for decades.  I know he loves me and i love him.  Vulnerability is difficult on both sides.  I think it is easier now that I have accepted that the  "open hearted" moments are not a sign that our problems are over and the r/s had turned a corner.   I am no longer  in denial about what was really happening (symptoms of BPD).  I am thankful for these close times, but not shocked when they go away.

Every r/s waxes and wanes.  Just have to ride out the bad times.  I am in no way saying it is easy because it is not, but being knowledgeable has made it easier.

I think before i began accepting the limitations of my r/s (and every r/s is limited in some way), that i expected my marriage to be everything.  I was lazy in my other relationships, yet worked so, so hard on the primary r/s with my husband.  Now I have tried to strengthen those other ties.  To be supportive and get support, too.

That's great!  Is it having an effect on your relationship with your husband?

Yes, it has had an effect.  But, during the bad times i used to stand around and wring my hands and try to make things ok.  It never worked.  I felt so isolated.  I was isolated.  Now I have more options of how to spend my time.  I think it has, in the long run been better for him because I am caring of him, but not being a caretaker.  Does that make sense?

Coldethyl, at first i almost

Had to put my hands over my mouth to shut myself up .  But, it has become easier.  It is paying off, so I don't mind keeping my opinions to myself as much as I once did.

[Grey Kitty]

Keeping your mouth shut works a whole lot better when you are at a point where you dont have the desire to actually say something.

Do you have any tips on how to get to a point where you don't have the desire to actually say something? 

For a while, my (silent) mantra was "Nothing good will come of this."

As in I was thinking of saying something or wanting to say something... .and I was able to draw on memories of a previous time when I did speak about something of that sort... .and remember how it didn't get me anything that I wanted, didn't make my world better, didn't make my wife's world better.

Over time it did get easier.

[formflier]

[

For a while, my (silent) mantra was "Nothing good will come of this."

I kind of remember you saying this in previous posts.  I sort of turned it into "I should hush... ." and really focus on listening.

In fact... .I did that about five minutes ago... .wife was being repetitive.

[OffRoad]

This isn't exactly what you are looking for, but sometimes I remove myself from when I know a drama will be. Let my H participate in his drama all by himself, and he usually figures it out for himself.

For example, he is most likely to dysregulate if he had alcohol the night before. So the day after he's had alcohol (usually Saturday, as he has a drink or two on Friday), I make sure I have something else to do. All day. I'll often hear about what a terrible day it was when I get home and it almost always is self inflicted terrible-ness.

[Loosestrife]

I have tried 'pointing to normal' but it's 50:50 if it blows up in my face. I have recently tried to say when I feel offended/hurt/upset by the drama, but it seems I have to explain myself wite a bit to get my SO to acknowledge and understand and then I feel like I'm in JADE and this is all I will ever be doing in the r/s so I sound like I'm always moaning and critising.

[Mustbeabetterway]

I have tried 'pointing to normal' but it's 50:50 if it blows up in my face. I have recently tried to say when I feel offended/hurt/upset by the drama, but it seems I have to explain myself wite a bit to get my SO to acknowledge and understand and then I feel like I'm in JADE and this is all I will ever be doing in the r/s so I sound like I'm always moaning and critising.

Hi Loosestrife, I am not sure what "pointing to normal" means.  But, trying to explain myself never works and only makes me feel worse.  It puts me in the "guilty" position.  Like presumed guilty until proven innocent. 

Sorry you are struggling so much, I understand how that feels.  What if your S/O never acknowledges and understands?  In my situation, I am trying to acknowledge and understand my own feelings. 

I don't know if you have read " Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist - How to End the Drama and Get on With Your Life" if not, I highly recommend it. 

Wishing you a dramaless day1

[waverider]

I have tried 'pointing to normal' but it's 50:50 if it blows up in my face. I have recently tried to say when I feel offended/hurt/upset by the drama, but it seems I have to explain myself wite a bit to get my SO to acknowledge and understand and then I feel like I'm in JADE and this is all I will ever be doing in the r/s so I sound like I'm always moaning and critising.

It is good to state your reality, however there is no need to sell it. Especially if don't want to buy it. The less you say the more they will hear as there is less to twist and deform.

You say your truth as that is your right, and stifling it makes you feel lesser and full of resentment. If they choose to ignore it, then that is their choice. You are saying your truth for your benefit not theirs.

Be aware of the often futile nature of debating and negotiating with a triggered pwBPD

[formflier]

Be aware of the often futile nature of debating and negotiating with a triggered pwBPD

I used to be bad about this... .had horrible debates.

Today... and talk that was going well... .went south.  I don't know why... .but when my wife started telling me how I did things at my last job... .how I planned and conducted myself (she was completely wrong)... .

I expressed some confusion about whether she was talking about how I did things or she did things... .asking her to clarify.  At that point... .it was clear from her response that she was triggered.  I said something about not being able to continue the conversation... and walked out of the room.

She kept talking for several minutes... very loudly. 

30-45 minutes later... .things were fine.  That was this morning. 

This afternoon is one of the best times we have had together in a while... .top notch.

I am curious about what set her off... .but I don't obsess anymore.  Also did pretty good just letting it slide off.

Any "trigger" that I felt was gone in about 5 minutes.

FF

[Loosestrife]

Be aware of the often futile nature of debating and negotiating with a triggered pwBPD

I used to be bad about this... .had horrible debates.

Today... and talk that was going well... .went south.  I don't know why... .but when my wife started telling me how I did things at my last job... .how I planned and conducted myself (she was completely wrong)... .

I expressed some confusion about whether she was talking about how I did things or she did things... .asking her to clarify.  At that point... .it was clear from her response that she was triggered.  I said something about not being able to continue the conversation... and walked out of the room.

She kept talking for several minutes... very loudly. 

30-45 minutes later... .things were fine.  That was this morning. 

This afternoon is one of the best times we have had together in a while... .top notch.

I am curious about what set her off... .but I don't obsess anymore.  Also did pretty good just letting it slide off.

Any "trigger" that I felt was gone in about 5 minutes.

FF

How to you keep this BPD management up? I just don't think I'm strong enough to do this on top of a very demanding job 

[zundertowz]

Be aware of the often futile nature of debating and negotiating with a triggered pwBPD

I used to be bad about this... .had horrible debates.

Today... and talk that was going well... .went south.  I don't know why... .but when my wife started telling me how I did things at my last job... .how I planned and conducted myself (she was completely wrong)... .

I expressed some confusion about whether she was talking about how I did things or she did things... .asking her to clarify.  At that point... .it was clear from her response that she was triggered.  I said something about not being able to continue the conversation... and walked out of the room.

She kept talking for several minutes... very loudly. 

30-45 minutes later... .things were fine.  That was this morning. 

This afternoon is one of the best times we have had together in a while... .top notch.

I am curious about what set her off... .but I don't obsess anymore.  Also did pretty good just letting it slide off.

Any "trigger" that I felt was gone in about 5 minutes.

FF

Sounds like the relationship I had with my mother... .I refused to have that same relationship with my lover... .it was a complete turnoff to me.

[formflier]

How to you keep this BPD management up? I just don't think I'm strong enough to do this on top of a very demanding job 

So... .you asked... .here it comes... .at least my version.

I'm a pilot... .Naval Aviator (retired) to be specific.  We think a lot about "energy management" on the airplane.  If you run out of air flowing over your wing... .you stop flying and start falling.  Falling into the ground... .doesn't work out well in an airplane.


So... when I found this site... .I was burned out... .not much sleep... .confused... .my life was in shambles... .I was out of energy and falling.  As I learned the "order to the disorder"... .I realized that some things dealing with pwBPD traits take lots of energy... and some take less.

I tried to become more self aware... .realized I had a limited supply of energy... .so I focus it on what I think are the priorities... .and I let the rest of just go.

Boundaries:  Man... .those things are important.  They conserve energy.  Specifically... .keep you from spending energy on drama where "No good can come of this ... ."  (hehe... .stole GK's line...     ) 

Seriously... .that line is great... because no matter how many resources you shove at some "BPD things"... it's not going to work... .it's all a waste. 

The other place boundaries are great... .is when your "stall warning buzzer" goes off (a thing in airplane that says you are about to start falling)... .you exit the issue before it blows up.

This could be something you are normally good at... like validation.  But... .trying that when tired usually doesn't work... .so boundary yourself and don't do it.

Anyway... .this type of thinking works for me.  Hopefully you guys can figure a way to make it work for you.

FF

[Cole]

The other place boundaries are great... .is when your "stall warning buzzer" goes off (a thing in airplane that says you are about to start falling)... .you exit the issue before it blows up.

The difference is that when the plane is going to crash you can parachute out. Divorce is the parachute. Staying married is riding that plane right into the mountain. Don't worry- you survive the crash. But then you get to fly into the mountain again tomorrow.

I have not been able to find a way to deal with the duality and confusion my wife throws at me on a daily basis. For me, the parachute has been looking good lately.  

[Loosestrife]

Thanks FF

[formflier]

 Divorce is the parachute.  

Nope!  Wrong analogy... .IMO.  Boundaries are the ejection handle that you pull... .when it's too hot in the cockpit.

OK... .I know someone will come along and say that divorce is the ultimate boundary... .and I see that point... .but... .before going to the big D... .I would encourage anyone and everyone to focus really hard on CONSISTENTLY using boundaries.  

In many cases you don't even have to explain.  They start being verbally abusive... you walk away.  With consistent application... they will get it.  Remember... .you don't care if they like it... .a boundary is about you.  

Just like the parachute... it keeps you alive to fly another mission.  

Cole,

I'm not saying I'm great at boundaries... .but I can realize when I did it right.  Yesterday I walked away... .things were ok after 45 minutes or so.  Last night was top notch.  So was this morning.

I don't have to fully understand why ... .I just need to understand that this works

So... .if whatever you are doing is not working... .try something different.  

Warning:  :)on't gauge their reaction to see if boundary is working.  Gauge your reaction.  :)o you feel better that you skpped a blistering attack?  

Hang in there man... .I know this is tough business... .especially when there is such "duality"... .I would use the word contradictory.  Just know that it is very likely the feel it to be true... .in the moment they are saying it

FF