Rudeness Abounds

[thefixermom]

DD38 has been living with us for almost a month.  There are some real nice times and it's still better than the horrible time of a couple years ago.  She is cleaning up the kitchen after herself (never would before) but has been slowly but surely creeping into our space.   Each little thing by itself is no big deal but over time it all adds up.  She wanted her own kitchen time, made sense and we happily accepted her request, but just now she pushed herself into DH's kitchen time, forcefully insisting that "due to her blood sugar,"  she cannot wait her turn.  She pulled out her food, turned on the blender,  opened the oven and pretty much made it very uncomfortable for him to finish the skillet vegetable dish he was in the middle of making. He asked her several times to wait for him to finish and she said, "No, sorry, I can't and won't."   Her promise to keep her room clean (by that I mean at least minimally straightened with a view of the floor) has disintegrated.  One of my nice dishes is laying broken on the floor, along with banana peels, empty cereal boxes, clothes, lotions, and more.  Several of my clothing items have disappeared.   There is a bad smell in there. My cordial attempt to talk to her about cleaning it is met with a harsh hands up in the air, "You are so happy you found something to nag me about!"  It is seriously a health hazard in there.  She said it's not a health hazard "because I plan to clean it tonight."  If she doesn't, I am going to do it myself.   She had a job interview yesterday and her car was filthy so we thought we'd do something nice for her to help her feel better during the drive. My DH detailed it inside and out the day before the appt.  She was 20 minutes late for the appointment and instead of seeing her they rescheduled. Thank God they didn't just cancel it for good. I'm hoping and praying that she gets hired anyway, for her sake and ours.  She is friendly and joking with me when she feels good and sullen and distant when she doesn't.  I have to take her mood temperature it seems, before speaking.  I thought we were getting along this morning and made a light comment about a movie I was watching and she cut me off, saying, ":)on't talk to me like everything is normal between us."   

Right after she first moved in she started yelling at me and I didn't back down. It was a long and exhausting fight where I became hoarse but I prevailed and she acted respectful for a time after that.  I do not like going there but I am feeling inside that it could happen again because we are now at that point where we feel she is running the household, giving orders and then telling us to shut up and go away when a commitment with us she's neglected needs to be addressed.   

I am all mixed up inside... . feeling pity for her and selfish for wanting to feel comfortable in my home.  I want her to leave and I want her to stay. My DH can barely stand the thought of two more months living under the same roof with her and he is afraid she will stay beyond her 3 month promise.  If things went well we would both love for her to stay.  To complicate things further, DH's father is coming to visit in a week, which worries him a great deal.  DH is doing his best but there are times I can sense him losing patience with living like this and he doesn't quite accept it's a mental disorder. He mostly sees her as a selfish and inconsiderate person.  He wasn't raised around this kind of behavior. He has been more patient than I could ever hope to expect in a stepdad who came along after she had graduated from high school.  I feel like I'm asking too much of him.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[thefixermom]

PS

I'd love to show any responses to my DH for encouragement or advice.  Over the years I have shared with him about DD's history and BPD, narcissism, etc., and he has participated in many times of helping her but I guess my manner of explaining isn't giving him a full understanding. He doesn't have the time or interest to read books. He recently recovered from a long term bedridden (4 years) health crisis and beat the odds of survival and he now wants peace and enjoys working in his shop and on the property. All the strife and upset and rudeness is beyond his comprehension or reason.

[thefixermom]

Also, we are frequently finding burners left on, oven left on, lights turned on and left on in the middle of the night.  Is this behavior that others are dealing with, too?  I get afraid to leave the house for the day, that something could burn down.

[marie1057]

I am so sorry you are going through this hard time with your daughter. I don't have any advice except to set boundaries the best you can. My DS23 lives at home and he doesn't clean up the room his clothes are in or even rinse his dishes. He cusses at me and bosses me around when his father is working and he is Never nice to me and I mean Never. I cry everyday.  Although I have no peace, I love him unconditionally. I know he doesn't have friends to stay with. I am now in counselling. My counsellor tells me to tell him in a calm voice when he is doing something inappropriate but do not get into a shouting match. She is teaching me to set boundaries. It is difficult and I am learning. She is also teaching me to be mindful each day and do enjoyable things while putting him out of my mind for a little while.  I guess what I am saying is put yourself and your husband first and take care of yourself physically and mentally. We can't change other people. We can change ourselves and our responses.

[tristesse]

Hello fixermom

boy oh boy does your story resonate with me. My dd is 31 and unbearably rude. She leaves trail of destruction in her wake.

A person with BPD either runs hot or cold, there is no in between, much like a person with bi-polar disorder. They see everything in black and white, no shades of grey. Their sense of logic and reasoning is almost non-existent. I have been dealing with BPD since my dd was about 12, she was a cutter in her teen years and has actually attempted suicide 3 different times.

It is easy for them to blame us, as parents for all of the wrong and hurt in their life. We are the ones that will love them no matter what, and they know it, deep inside they know... .even when they act like we are the enemy, they still know we are loving them, so as way to let out the hurt and the anger the all of the feelings and emotions that they have no control over, they use us for target practice.

We do not have to allow the abuse, and we can always set boundaries, but both are easier said than done. I struggle with both every single day. I want my dd to leave so I can have peace, but I know she has no job, no money and no place to go, so I allow her to stay... . essentially giving her permission to continue acting the way she does.

My dd also leaves the lights on all night, I am always going around turning them off, she is afraid of the dark, as much as she hates to admit it.

I can only offer a hug from afar, and encouraging words of strength. Please take care of yourself my friend

[livednlearned]

I am all mixed up inside... . feeling pity for her and selfish for wanting to feel comfortable in my home.  I want her to leave and I want her to stay. My DH can barely stand the thought of two more months living under the same roof with her and he is afraid she will stay beyond her 3 month promise... .DH is doing his best but there are times I can sense him losing patience with living like this and he doesn't quite accept it's a mental disorder. He mostly sees her as a selfish and inconsiderate person.  He wasn't raised around this kind of behavior. He has been more patient than I could ever hope to expect in a stepdad who came along after she had graduated from high school.  I feel like I'm asking too much of him.

This must take a big toll on you, fixermom. I remember reading in family systems theory how powerful dynamics form when there are three people because drama triangles develop, and many alliances and allegiances form and dissolve. And you mention that you feel mixed up inside, feeling pity for her and selfish for wanting to feel comfortable. So understandable! When you feel the need to experience clarity, it must feel tempting to side with your H because his views are not mixed up, and that certainty feels preferable to more conflict. Do you notice if this fuels your impatience with your D when she is not meeting expectations?

For example, when my S13 is being difficult, I vent to my SO and feel solidarity. When my ex (uBPD) was impatient or rude to S13, I sided with S13 (solidarity).

Do you notice anything like that happening? It might help explain why you feel mixed feelings and give you a trail of breadcrumbs to understand your core values and boundaries when there is conflict with your D. If your D senses that you are taking sides, she will not experience authentic validation because a decision has already been made, and she feels it. This is different than sensing that you have strong boundaries, and a perceptive person will be able to tell.

[meantcorn34]

Sometimes I wonder if I use my son's BPD as an excuse to avoid my own discomfort with setting and enforcing boundaries.

As a person diagnosed with bipolar, I assure you we do not all see the world in black and white terms.

[Rapt Reader]

Hello, thefixermom... .You've gotten some good insights and advice on this thread, and I was just wondering if your daughter ever cleaned her room? Did she make it to her job interview? Anything change since you last updated us?

Have you had the chance to check out the links to the right-hand side of  page yet? The TOOLS and THE LESSONS? In the Feature Articles linked to under the 4 photos at the top of this Board's thread listing page (and here: When a teen or adult child has Borderline Personality Disorder), there's an Article that I think would be helpful for you: Supporting a Child in Therapy for Borderline Personality Disorder.

Even if your daughter isn't in Therapy right now, the information in this Article is really helpful with tips and insights into how things are going on in her mind (a great adjunct to the links I mentioned to the right, on this page). Here's an excerpt that I think you will find interesting:

Set realistic goals that are attainable. Solve big problems in small steps. Work on one thing at a time.

Big long-term goals lead to discouragement and failure.

Although the person with BPD may have many obvious strengths such as intelligence, ambition, good looks, and artistic talent, she nonetheless is handicapped by severe emotional vulnerabilities as she sets about making use of those talents. Usually the person with BPD and her family members have aspirations based upon these strengths. The patient or her family may push for return to college, graduate school, or a training program that will prepare her for financial independence. Family members may wish to have the patient move into her own apartment and care for herself more independently.

Fueled by such high ambitions, a person with BPD will take a large step forward at a time. She may insist upon returning to college full time despite undergoing recent hospitalizations, for example. Of course, such grand plans do not consider the individual’s handicaps of affect dyscontrol, black and white thinking, and intolerance of aloneness. The first handicap may mean that, in the example given, the B received on the first exam could lead to an inappropriate display of anger if it was thought to be unfair, to a self-destructive act if it was felt to be a total failure, or severe anxiety if it was believed that success in school would lead to decreased parental concern.

The overriding issue about success in the vocational arena is the threat of independence —much desired but fraught with fear of abandonment. The result of too large a step forward all at once is often a crashing swing in the opposite direction, like the swing of a pendulum. The person often relapses to a regressed state and may even require hospitalization.

A major task for families is to slow down the pace at which they or the patient seeks to achieve goals. By slowing down, they prevent the sharp swings of the pendulum as described and prevent experiences of failure that are blows to the individual’s self-confidence. By lowering expectations and setting small goals to be achieved step by step, patients and families have greater chances of success without relapse. Goals must be realistic. For example, the person who left college mid-semester after becoming depressed and suicidal under the pressure most likely could not return to college full time a few months later and expect success.

The whole Article is eye-opening, and I found it very helpful in giving me insights into my own 38 year-old son's feelings, fears, behaviors and symptoms. He was diagnosed with BPD in April of 2013... .Luckily for our family, he went to a Dual Diagnosis Program (after a serious suicidal ideation), got the BPD diagnosis along with DBT and other Treatments, and has been in recovery ever since. But, before the Treatments, our life was similar to yours with your daughter--volatile attitude; dirty, messy bedroom; irresponsible, erratic behaviors and all... .

Has your daughter ever been diagnosed? Does she have a Therapist? Does she know she has a problem? I guess I'm thinking that she may be acting out with you guys because of the pressure of trying to find a job, and her fear of failure might be spilling out into the kitchen, her bedroom and her belligerent attitude. The Article I linked to above will explain it; I've found that when my son's fear of letting us--and himself--down (yet again!) went into force, he was also terrible to live with... .I really know what you are going through, thefixermom 

[thefixermom]

Amazing how similar so many of our experiences are.  It sure helps to have a place where I can vent safely and read helpful input, see what others are going through and find ways to get calmness again.  Yes, I do find myself defending DD when DH is upset and sometimes vice versa.   The past couple days DH has been nitpicking DD a bit, both to her and to me when we are alone together. And while I understand very well, considering all he's put up with, it drives me away from him.  So when we went to bed last night, I found a very good meditation on youtube and played it for us.  There's a lot of cheesy ones on there but this one had a very nice voice and said all the right words and it helped me hugely. I think it may have helped DH, too, because today he seems more content and at peace.  I might listen to it every night for awhile to help cement the message.  I noticed my DD had a better day, too... . polite and good-natured.  She might just be on an upswing after her low point yesterday... . but I'm happy for the bounceback.  Used to take her weeks to come around in the past.  I'm just trying to stay centered and non-reactive or if I feel reactive to just make a choice to keep quiet till the emotions are not heating me up inside.

Thank you for the suggestions to read the articles at left. Admittedly, I have not read them, although I have read several books and watched a lot of videos, searching for understanding.  DD has not been diagnosed but she fits most of what I've read about BPD.  She was violent with me in the past and did harm herself once with pills but the extremes seem to have left her and  now it's just periods of sullen moods, rude dismissive behavior and irresponsibility.  She had a tumultuous childhood but was an excellent child and student. Signs didn't show up outwardly until she was around 19 - 20 years old and progressively worsened.  Like others we have spent a fortune we didn't  have trying to help her, to get help for her and often did all the wrong things not knowing what we were dealing with. I was riddled with guilt for a couple decades, which didn't help.   Everything we did for her is pretty much erased from her memory. She recounts those times with a lot of distortion and adds/removes history to suit her stories.   She pretty much thinks that the rest of the family, especially me, are the problem.   Her messy room and dire living conditions have pretty much been her entire adult life as has her procrastination and indecision.  I decided that I need to STOP criticizing her and instead help and encourage her when I find her receptive. She is not always receptive but there are more times now where she is than there used to be in the past.  I've done a good job (better than before anyway) at establishing my boundaries, but there are times when I back down, like when she was pushing her way into the kitchen. I let her and DH handle that on their own.  Oftentimes, since he is her stepdad, I will get in the middle of it and referee.  I don't want to do that any more. 

Aside from all this, I think about how she has gone estranged so many times and cut me off so many times that I'm rather tickled that we are here in the same house right now.  Those times of harsh separation were excruciating, albeit more peaceful at home and for DH.  I hope we can come out of this living together with some sort of bond between us and have her leave here connected and not in an angry "never going to talk to you again" frame of mind. There are days I see it can go either way.  Maybe it boils down to her leaving on a happy day or an angry day!