Do you think they even care about you?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

My boyfriend is a high functioning undiagnosed BPD.  He knows he has issues, although believes I should "help" to fix them (like his insecurity), but he avoids actually fixing it.  He was seeing a therapist and then some things came up and he claimed it was just too crazy a time to fit in seeing the therapist.  So, it has been 2 months since he has been there. 

He continuously does the same things over and over.  He expects that if I go somewhere (ex. run errands) that I let him know, but when it is him he does not do the same.  He would be upset and angry if I went out drinking alone or with my friends, yet he does it.  He lies, almost compulsively.  And then will accuse me of lying if he doesn't like what I say.

I really believe that they don't really care about anyone other than themselves.  When I read some of the posts on here about people in the early stages of a relationship like 1yr. or less and not living together, I want to SCREAM to the RUN!  DON'T LOOK BACK!

I'm trying to make the best of it, it is just never ending.  Always something!

[FigureIt]

My boyfriend is a high functioning undiagnosed BPD.  He knows he has issues, although believes I should "help" to fix them (like his insecurity), but he avoids actually fixing it.  He was seeing a therapist and then some things came up and he claimed it was just too crazy a time to fit in seeing the therapist.  So, it has been 2 months since he has been there. 

He continuously does the same things over and over.  He expects that if I go somewhere (ex. run errands) that I let him know, but when it is him he does not do the same.  He would be upset and angry if I went out drinking alone or with my friends, yet he does it.  He lies, almost compulsively.  And then will accuse me of lying if he doesn't like what I say.

I really believe that they don't really care about anyone other than themselves.  When I read some of the posts on here about people in the early stages of a relationship like 1yr. or less and not living together, I want to SCREAM to the RUN!  DON'T LOOK BACK!

I'm trying to make the best of it, it is just never ending.  Always something!

[Mike-X]

I am sorry that you are feeling this way. I struggled with similar issues when my udxGF and I lived together.

Can you help me to better understand the similarities and differences that you see between the two of you in terms of independence in a relationship and enmeshment?

[FigureIt]

I would say that I am independent and that I would view a significant other in a relationship with me as someone who loves me and wants to enjoy and participate in our life together.  That we may have different interests, hobbies, that we may enjoy with or without each other and that is okay. 

Unfortunately, I have come to realize that this is not how my bf views it.  His view is that he lives his life and I exist to "fawn" over him and be there when and for whatever he needs/wants.

I have a 9yr old daughter from my previous marriage, so alot of my time is being a mom and doing family type things.  On the weekends and days she is at her dads, I have a bit more freedom/flexibility.  My bf has 2 kids who are 23 & 17, so they are doing their own thing.  My bf likes to spend his weekends from about 3pm-1am at a bar drinking and watching sports.  To me that gets to be a bit boring after a while and especially if there are no other significant other out with his friends.

During the week I run errands sometimes after work like take my daughter to her sports, workout, etc.  I always leave a note or ask my bf if I'm going to the store if he needs anything.  Just out of common courtesy.  When I haven't left a note, or told him in advance he is upset with that.  (I've even said to him, you don't let me know.  He then throws it back as so "your punishing me." or something similar)

Now on the other hand, if he's gonna be late from work or go out etc., he NEVER lets me know.  I always have to text him and ask "where he is" and then sometimes he won't respond for 1/2hr to an hour later.  I feel this is disrespectful and rude.  He'll tell me he will be home soon or in an hour and it is ALWAYS 3+ hours later.  And again if I did that, he would be all over my case for not being home when I said.

I guess what frustrates me is that he EXPECTS something from me, yet he REFUSES to do the same. (quid pro quo)  After 4 years of this the "LOVE" isn't strong enough to hold on.  If I was financially able, I would leave now.  Why am I expected to give SO MUCH to the relationship, when he refuses to do the same and respect me and my feelings?  He LIVES FOR HIM!

[Mike-X]

I certainly understand the frustration. Have you tried to approach talking with him about this? If so, how?

[OnceConfused]

what you said there is exactly what makes BPD is so hard to live with. Everything is mostly 1 sided.

Sounds like he is not willing to change, i.e, not staying with the therapy, nor asking you to do something that he would not do for you.

SInce you are not able to leave, then I think you will have to have an exit strategy:

1. save enough money to be on your own.

2. Maintain your support system, continuing your r.s with friends and family and let BPD not cut you off.

3. Ignore what he says so you can maintain your sanity until exit

[patientandclear]

I would say that I am independent and that I would view a significant other in a relationship with me as someone who loves me and wants to enjoy and participate in our life together.  That we may have different interests, hobbies, that we may enjoy with or without each other and that is okay. 

Unfortunately, I have come to realize that this is not how my bf views it.  His view is that he lives his life and I exist to "fawn" over him and be there when and for whatever he needs/wants.

I have a 9yr old daughter from my previous marriage, so alot of my time is being a mom and doing family type things.  On the weekends and days she is at her dads, I have a bit more freedom/flexibility.  My bf has 2 kids who are 23 & 17, so they are doing their own thing.  My bf likes to spend his weekends from about 3pm-1am at a bar drinking and watching sports.  To me that gets to be a bit boring after a while and especially if there are no other significant other out with his friends.

During the week I run errands sometimes after work like take my daughter to her sports, workout, etc.  I always leave a note or ask my bf if I'm going to the store if he needs anything.  Just out of common courtesy.  When I haven't left a note, or told him in advance he is upset with that.  (I've even said to him, you don't let me know.  He then throws it back as so "your punishing me." or something similar)

Now on the other hand, if he's gonna be late from work or go out etc., he NEVER lets me know.  I always have to text him and ask "where he is" and then sometimes he won't respond for 1/2hr to an hour later.  I feel this is disrespectful and rude.  He'll tell me he will be home soon or in an hour and it is ALWAYS 3+ hours later.  And again if I did that, he would be all over my case for not being home when I said.

I guess what frustrates me is that he EXPECTS something from me, yet he REFUSES to do the same. (quid pro quo)  After 4 years of this the "LOVE" isn't strong enough to hold on.  If I was financially able, I would leave now.  Why am I expected to give SO MUCH to the relationship, when he refuses to do the same and respect me and my feelings?  He LIVES FOR HIM!

I think the wise folks on the Staying board would say that this is a perfect situation for application of boundaries.  You might spend some time reading the boundaries lessons on that board.

When you say that you "have to" text him and ask him where he is ... .no, you definitely do not have to.  Step One: clearly articulate what you'd like to happen.  Step Two: if he doesn't do it (leave a note), do whatever you want to do with your life in his absence.  That probably will mean some inconvenience to you both (he comes home wanting to see you but you are gone; you'd rather that he come with you to something but he is in an unknown location ... .).  Oh well.  He is making his choices knowing what you want.  YOU need to make your choices that are available when your bf is not cooperating.  Go out, do your thing.  He needs to experience some natural consequences to his own choices.  Explain calmly and without being angry.  It may take repetitions for there to be any change.

As they say on Staying, nothing changes without changes -- and you are the one you can change.  When you do, often, the pwBPD changes in response, though there might be a lot of noise and drama on the way there.  Be resolved, be calm, be polite, but don't budge from your boundary, which is: if you don't tell me what you're up to, I'll live my life as if you're not going to be participating.

I realize the "no note" issue is just one of many examples you could probably give.  The key is to say what you need and expect and then if he does not choose to meet you there, take the action that makes sense given his choice.  He has to reckon with the cost of his own decisions.  You explaining all that in advance is less likely to be effective than him experiencing the actual consequences, so long as you are not feeding in a bunch of criticism and negativity along with that lesson that can be distracting ("she doesn't really like me anyway, look, she's mad at me".

[FigureIt]

I certainly understand the frustration. Have you tried to approach talking with him about this? If so, how?

I have tried talking to him about it.  I've stated what his expectations are and yet he refuses to do same.  I have asked very nice and calmly to let me know ex. if he's going out... ., or working late, etc.  Never am I told. 

Many times we both may come home at lunchtime to eat.  I didn't for a week because I was busy at work.  He actually made a point to say something on how I haven't been home.  When I am there he doesn't talk to me or engage with me in any way.  He did say that he feels "more secure" when I come home at lunch.  Which I have also talked with him on how I can't fix him being insecure.  Although, he states he knows that, yet again EXPECTS that I should fix it.

[FigureIt]

Patientandclear thank you for your input.  I do try to do/plan whether he's there or not.  It just gets frustrating and I do find it to be a lack of respect.  I'm not asking him to stop what he's doing in many cases, just let me know. 

And the noise... .wow... .I told him I don't really like sitting in a bar for 6+ hours.  Now that gets held over my head on how i ":)on't want to be out with him."  Which is not what I said at all.  I just asked that we do different things.  I really don't understand how some stay... .EVERYTHING is all about them.

I have a boundary question... .  My bf is not too much bigger then me so sometimes he wear my lounge around the house stuff, sweatshirts, sweatpants, windpants.  It really bothers me because those are mine.  He has his own clothes.  I sortof snapped the other day when he had worn a sweatshirt of mine while doing yard work and he got upset, claiming "I yelled at him, the sweatshirt was in the laundry to be washed anyways, etc."  How do I address this?

[Mike-X]

Have you considered how to word this using SET or DEARMAN?

[FigureIt]

Have you considered how to word this using SET or DEARMAN?

No I think however I approach it he will take offense.  He finds no issue in taking/using my things.  I had a favorite pair of windpants I liked to wear.  His broke so now he wears mine all the time.  I haven't ever approched it because it will end in him being "upset."

[Mike-X]

Have you considered how to word this using SET or DEARMAN?

No I think however I approach it he will take offense.  He finds no issue in taking/using my things.  I had a favorite pair of windpants I liked to wear.  His broke so now he wears mine all the time.  I haven't ever approched it because it will end in him being "upset."

It seems to be a boundary issue for you, so I think that it is good that you are considering how to establish and enforce the boundary.

How about:

S: I understand that you like wearing xxx of mine.

E: I know that they are comfortable clothes.

T: However, I would prefer that you have your own comfy things to wear so that mine are available for me to wear when I want to wear them.

Maybe close with: Let's can go buy some comfy stuff for you. What do you think?

[FigureIt]

I will try.  Although when he first started wearing my windpants, I said how about I buy you some.  He said  "no these are fine."  No big deal they are mine.  Plus I paid $50 for them, why should I have to pay again.

[Mike-X]

I will try.  Although when he first started wearing my windpants, I said how about I buy you some.  He said  "no these are fine."  No big deal they are mine.  Plus I paid $50 for them, why should I have to pay again.

I see. My thought is that there is more behind this than just the clothes. Often validation (esteem) issues underlie the behavior and responses. So SET starts with validation (Sympathy and Empathy) before getting to the Truth that you want to address.

Considering validation first seemed very foreign to me, which was ironic because I was often engaging in argument escalation over feeling invalidated. However, my experience has been that SET and providing validation first has changed the nature of interactions with so many people, BPD or not.  People seem to walk away feeling better about the interactions,  even when I have had to provide critical feedback to them.

[Mike-X]

I will try.  Although when he first started wearing my windpants, I said how about I buy you some.  He said  "no these are fine."  No big deal they are mine.  Plus I paid $50 for them, why should I have to pay again.

I think that I understand how you are feeling here. How would you have preferred that he responded? That is, what response were you expecting/hoping for in the exchange?