BPD (waif) Ex girlfriend - 1 1/2 months out - want her back

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hey guys.

I've been posting on the Staying board pretty much since the b/u but I thought I'd move my posts here since it's more relevant.

A (very) quick summary of our r/s - it lasted 3 1/2 months, both each other's "first everything", Idealization phase was amazing, did anything I could for this girl - left the army, offered her to stay at my place when she ran away from home, stopped her suicide attempt, showered her with affection and gifts, pretty much "prince charming 101".

During the last few weeks we were getting into fights (4 in total, each one more intense than the previous one) about her canceling dates multiple times (sometimes with a valid reason, like hurting her leg at work, but when I offered to come and take care of her she started crying, begging for me not to come... .What the heck). While at my place she got sick and I spent 80 hours taking care of her (in which I took her home, stayed with her, ran around like crazy making her comfortable, all with the intent of being there for her) to a point where I was bedridden for 2 days b/c of exhaustion - barely got a "feel good" from her, she was already doing well and back at her job, I actually comforted HER for not being there for ME.

She constantly needed reassuring of my love during the last stages, I always promised her I won't leave her and that I love her. We had another argument a day after I brought her flowers to work (to which she cried from happiness and hugged me) and I had an anger outburst on the fact that somehow she always cancels dates during the last second (and I plan my day according to it). She told me she couldn't deal with it anymore, went NC - tried to contact her, 2 days later got into a long argument where she twisted everything I did around to make it my fault, things I said as a joke once or twice, things she was into, made me seem like a monster, I begged for her, told her I'd do anything to make this work, told me she needed to think... .long story short - we met up and she broke up with me less than a week later, gave me back my stuff, told me all that she said on the phone earlier and much more, how it was HER decision, not mine, blah blah blah (typical BPD power struggle).

Tried texting her 2 days later explaining myself, begging - told me I'm a liar, my words have no meaning and to stop bothering her. Tried texting again 2 weeks later - not even a "seen". Every time I tried to contact her - she changed a profile picture, always alone, not smiling... .after I stopped texting her she changed her profile picture like 3 times in 24 hours, trying to get my response - when I responded she simply changed her status to "nope" and then changed her picture again to look like the emoji I had on my status... .what the heck... .I didn't react to that, and suddenly a mutual friend of ours (our only mutual friend, who I haven't spoken with since the b/u) asked me if I'm ok, probably b/c my ex asked her to... .

We are attending the same concert in about 5 weeks from now, someone on the staying board told me I should go NC 'till then and then call her up to see if she'd like to go together. I've researched a LOT on BPD, my core issues, why I have abandonment issues (mostly because of my mother and her somewhat abusive, passive-aggressive r/s with me), I was left broken and shattered to pieces, asking myself "what the heck just happened?"... .

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance... .but I don't know what to do anymore... .been working on myself lately, I do feel better, but it feels empty without her... .

[Bassoutcast]

Hey guys.

I've been posting on the Staying board pretty much since the b/u but I thought I'd move my posts here since it's more relevant.

A (very) quick summary of our r/s - it lasted 3 1/2 months, both each other's "first everything", Idealization phase was amazing, did anything I could for this girl - left the army, offered her to stay at my place when she ran away from home, stopped her suicide attempt, showered her with affection and gifts, pretty much "prince charming 101".

During the last few weeks we were getting into fights (4 in total, each one more intense than the previous one) about her canceling dates multiple times (sometimes with a valid reason, like hurting her leg at work, but when I offered to come and take care of her she started crying, begging for me not to come... .What the heck). While at my place she got sick and I spent 80 hours taking care of her (in which I took her home, stayed with her, ran around like crazy making her comfortable, all with the intent of being there for her) to a point where I was bedridden for 2 days b/c of exhaustion - barely got a "feel good" from her, she was already doing well and back at her job, I actually comforted HER for not being there for ME.

She constantly needed reassuring of my love during the last stages, I always promised her I won't leave her and that I love her. We had another argument a day after I brought her flowers to work (to which she cried from happiness and hugged me) and I had an anger outburst on the fact that somehow she always cancels dates during the last second (and I plan my day according to it). She told me she couldn't deal with it anymore, went NC - tried to contact her, 2 days later got into a long argument where she twisted everything I did around to make it my fault, things I said as a joke once or twice, things she was into, made me seem like a monster, I begged for her, told her I'd do anything to make this work, told me she needed to think... .long story short - we met up and she broke up with me less than a week later, gave me back my stuff, told me all that she said on the phone earlier and much more, how it was HER decision, not mine, blah blah blah (typical BPD power struggle).

Tried texting her 2 days later explaining myself, begging - told me I'm a liar, my words have no meaning and to stop bothering her. Tried texting again 2 weeks later - not even a "seen". Every time I tried to contact her - she changed a profile picture, always alone, not smiling... .after I stopped texting her she changed her profile picture like 3 times in 24 hours, trying to get my response - when I responded she simply changed her status to "nope" and then changed her picture again to look like the emoji I had on my status... .what the heck... .I didn't react to that, and suddenly a mutual friend of ours (our only mutual friend, who I haven't spoken with since the b/u) asked me if I'm ok, probably b/c my ex asked her to... .

We are attending the same concert in about 5 weeks from now, someone on the staying board told me I should go NC 'till then and then call her up to see if she'd like to go together. I've researched a LOT on BPD, my core issues, why I have abandonment issues (mostly because of my mother and her somewhat abusive, passive-aggressive r/s with me), I was left broken and shattered to pieces, asking myself "what the heck just happened?"... .

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance... .but I don't know what to do anymore... .been working on myself lately, I do feel better, but it feels empty without her... .

[LeonVa]

man, your story is a like a short but condensed version of mine all in 3 1/2 month.

I'd suggest to go NC as well. It might be hard for you, but you just have to do it! If she comes with you later, fine, if she doesn't, expect that and continue the NC.  Heal yourself during this time, find some other things to do or just watch some TV shows you always liked. STAY NC.

[Bassoutcast]

man, your story is a like a short but condensed version of mine all in 3 1/2 month.

I'd suggest to go NC as well. It might be hard for you, but you just have to do it! If she comes with you later, fine, if she doesn't, expect that and continue the NC.  Heal yourself during this time, find some other things to do or just watch some TV shows you always liked. STAY NC.

I'm NC in a sense that I no longer do anything related to her - uploading statuses, pictures, any types of messages for her to see, but I do cyber-stalk her daily on WhatsApp... .longest I've been able to hold myself is 3 days (this weekend) without checking up on her... .It's an addiction... .I wish I could stop but it's always so tempting... .

And I do everything possible to to occupy myself and heal - meeting with friends, reading multiple books, going on long walks, working excessively on my hobbies and whatnot, but I can't get her out of my mind... .

[cosmonaut]

Hi Bass,

I'm sorry to hear that this is causing you so much pain.  I was the same way for the first several months of my breakup.  My ex was constantly on my mind, and I was in constant pain.  It was truly the worst experience of my life.  I'm sorry that you are going through this too.

I think one of the things to look at is the following:

Everyone deserves a 2nd chance... .but I don't know what to do anymore... .been working on myself lately, I do feel better, but it feels empty without her... .

I think it is this feeling of emptiness that deserves examination.  This is indicative of a very deep, core wound.  Have you read this post before by member 2010?  Perhaps you will find it helpful.  It really helped me.

In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.*Both need saving* Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child” does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.”  When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy *needs* of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it.  The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame.  They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment.  This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split.  If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love."  Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning.  The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.

The lonely child *understands* the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

The Borderline is a perfect template with which to and identify with as a good object and also one to invest in to feel better about the “self.”

The understanding driven lonely child "imagines" (projects) onto the Borderline what he/she feels the Borderline identifies with. The lonely child often fills in the blanks with projective identification and the Borderline attempts to absorbs this- but it's impossible to appear as a self-directed person while taking cues and mirroring another self directed partner.

The Borderline scrambles to keep up with what is projected in a chameleon like manner.  All of this pressure to adapt and conform to the projection smothers and defeats the Borderline’s yearning for a perfect bond and triggers engulfment failure. 

Engulfment also means loss of control, annihilation fantasies and shame.  Shame activates the punitive parent that resides in their inner world, their psyche. The attachment failure has now become shame based for the Borderline.  It will soon become guilt driven for the lonely child partner.

Engulfment makes Borderlines very frustrated and angry- but Borderlines fear abandonment and choose to stuff away their fear and compulsively attempt to manage their pain. The impulsive gestures are a form of self harm that fixes the bond in a permanent chaos of action/reaction. 

Borderlines can be avoidant and passive aggressive and will do everything in their power to hide their strong emotions until they implode.  They swing wildly from abandoned child to angry child until they deflate into detached protector- who is basically a mute that doesn’t speak- or worse, speaks in word salad when confronted.

The swinging dysregulation pattern is unable to be separated and individuated and self directed. Because it cannot be self directed, it cannot be self soothed. There is no ability to defer these emotions to logic and reasoning with introspection *without* another person to blame.  This is where Borderlines are showing you the maturity stage at which they are developmentally arrested and remain stuck and frightened.

Devaluing is the BPD going into the punitive parent role to switch up the control ~ control was relinquished in the idealisation phase so we will attach. The further along we get in the rs ~ the BPD then feels like we are the persecutor for their failing part time self ~ devalue. Devaluing is more about projection ~ because there failing self makes them feel woeful, scared, fearful.

We all have punitive parents that exist in our heads. This is our Superego.  The criticism felt by both parties exists as guilt and shame inside our heads. This tape plays over and over and is a re-working of former traumas. It is also a huge part of what makes complementary traumas so attractive as binding agents to each other.  The lonely child has the “tyrannical shoulds” while the abandoned child has defectiveness schema- together they interact and drive each other crazy.

The understanding driven child cannot fathom how another human being does not have a “self.”  The understanding driven child has had much childhood experience with strong selves and has created a self to understand the motives of others. Lonely children have a need to have some sort of control over their destiny because so much was out of control in their childhood.

The Borderline’s idea of destiny is being attached to others for protection. The Borderline cannot fathom what it means to have a stand alone “self.”

Both parties are human “doing” for others rather than being- but there is more impulsivity in Borderline in the “offering” of themselves as objects.  (The lonely child is very particular concerning who he gives his heart to and makes decisions based upon careful consideration.)

The failure to find a healthy mature love activates the punitive parent in both people’s psyche- one for persecution and the other for failure to understand others (cloaked in rescuing behaviors)- this is the “flea” of each others psychiatric trauma that really is a very strong obsessive bond, and one of endless victimization for both parties unless one or the other becomes understanding driven toward self direction.  Guess who has the best chance?  Unfortunately, the mirrored good that the Borderline provided was a very strong drug- and the obsession is outwardly projected (as it always has been) by the lonely child in order to understand and consequently, control it.

It’s at this point that spying, engaging in testing and push/pull behaviors occur as both parties fight for control. Each pours salt in the others core wound.

The understanding driven child tries to understand the Borderline and the Borderline feels misunderstood and persecuted. The understanding driven child retreats to repair their ego and the Borderline lashes out and tries to shame him. The pendulum swings back and forth in clinging and hating and disordered thought and chaos. 

The lonely child tries to uncover what they think the Borderline is hiding from them (triggering bouts of paranoia) or missing (creating dependency issues.)  The angry child threatens to destroy the relationship (as well as themselves = self harm) which triggers immense anger and outrage for both parties. Their love object is broken.

Both parties are in pain- and their egos are easy to "pinch" because they both fear abandonment.   At this point, both core traumas are exposed and the partners are no longer interacting with each other except to arouse each other’s trauma wounds from childhood.

The false self of the lonely child, that the Borderline mirrored, has more ego- as it is directly tied to a “self” which involves coping mechanisms from childhood that mirrored back good.  It was a self that was capable and seeming to have all the answers in the beginning.  When the Borderline tries to destroy it as a failed attachment, it begins to crumble and the lonely child retreats and tries to repair it- essentially wounded to the core. This is also part and parcel of the injury of the smear campaign- and the lonely child may try to return to defend the "self" from being attacked.

Trauma for the lonely child occurs mainly because of perceived failure they cannot “understand” enough (essentially an obsession at this point) and trauma for the Borderline occurs because of anger and abandonment and shame that existed since infancy- and persecution by their inner parent superego for not becoming whole. 

At this point, both parties feel like failures.

Unfortunately, the repair for the lonely child’s self consists of trying again to fix the Borderline "mirror" to reflect the good.  Many attempts will be made by the lonely child (once again) to effect an outcome other than the failed attachment.  The lonely child will try to re-build the self and get the love object (Borderline) to return and resume their compliant mirroring.

Eventually, the fantasy begins to unravel for the lonely child, that they are alone- and the person that the lonely child fell in love with, (the person in the mirror,) was actually YOU.

Who really is the Borderline? Someone who needed you for awhile because they were scared to be alone.

They’re still scared. Forgive them if you can- they are modern day recreations of their own childhood fears.

Now- after reading all of this- You can’t keep going back for more trauma.  The trauma bond must be broken.

After we've let fantasy go- we can turn the focus to healing.  It's good to wonder what our attraction must have been to this person. Whatever clues you have are generally good enough to give you reason that you’ve had experience with this type of personality before- perhaps within your family of origin.

Stop yourself from thinking that you’ve never been treated so poorly before this relationship. When you catch yourself saying you can't believe it. Stop and think. Chances are- you’ve just chosen to repress a few circumstances from childhood that were traumatic. Now the feelings are back on the surface and you’re going to have to address them.

Introspection involves a great pain. Let those feelings come up. Journal your thoughts when you feel anxious. Learn about yourself. We must address the pain from our childhood that has been left unresolved for too long. We cannot escape from pain if we are to have personal growth- and you've got to get this relationship out of the way in order to get at the real hurt.

Radical acceptance comes when you realize that what was mirrored really wasn’t you- it was what *you wanted others to give to you*   It was <<Understanding.>>

Try to give that to yourself.

[Bassoutcast]

That was an insightful post, thank you for sharing.

In my case it's more difficult than "typical" BPD r/s I think, because unlike the vast majority of pwBPD who act-out, rage, etc, it's very hard to know what's on a "waif"'s mind. It can be masked, tolerated, accepted, and then just explode right in your face when you let your guard down.

I actually think my ex still thinks of me and "tests" me. She wasn't online for like 10 days, right about after I stopped playing her games. Last time she wasn't online for a few days I asked out mutual friend to see if she's OK. I fell for it and sent her an Instagram request (to see if she's still alive, I know, ridiculous) - She denied it and suddenly she's back online (As if thinking - "OK, he's not reacting? I wonder if this'll get him to worry about me". That happened last Thursday... .stopped playing her games ever since, deactivated my Instagram temporarily... .if our mutual friend reaches out again - chances are I'll ignore her. Basically saying "You want to talk? you have my number" 

[cosmonaut]

How do you feel like she's playing games with you?  Can you expand on that?

[Bassoutcast]

How do you feel like she's playing games with you?  Can you expand on that?

I'd love to explain :

When she broke up with me, a few days before the actual b/u she changed her profile picture on WhatsApp from our picture to just herself. On the way to pick up my stuff I asked her what that meant (b/c I thought at that point she was done with me) she said she was just very angry. I told her she has plenty of nicer pictures of her, and left it at that.

2 days after the b/u I liked a post of her on Instagram, she immediately changed her profile picture both there and on WhatsApp to my favorite picture of her. Tried texting her a day later, explaining myself, begging for her to take me back, she told me to stop bothering her, to which I said "fine, have a nice life". Unfollowed her on Instagram (she's a private user, once I unfollow I can't see her posts). Tried texting her 2 weeks later - didn't even get a "seen", but she went and changed her profile picture AGAIN (revealing she got a new haircut, she wasn't smiling, almost looked pissed). I changed my instagram status to a quote from a song she likes - she changed her WhatsApp profile picture to resemble the song's music video. Changed my status to "What the heck" and an emoji of the nickname we used to called each other - 5 minutes later she changes her status to 2 glitter emojis with a big "Nope" between them. I changed my status to an emoji with sunglasses and stopped paying attention.

1 day later our mutual friend, who I asked 2 weeks earlier to check up on my ex b/c she wasn't online for a few days (a request that was essentially ignored at the time) told me she "forgot" about my request and that my ex is fine, to which I replied "I know she's fine, she's playing games with me" and changed the subject. told her I'll talk to her later - been 2 weeks since, haven't spoken to her yet. Found out later that day my ex changed her picture AGAIN to (what a surprise) a picture of herself with sunglasses (she never wore sunglasses), like my status... .*sigh*

She wasn't online for like 10 days and honestly ? I was starting to worry. Didn't contact our mutual friend though, just hit her up with an Instagram request - which she of course declined within the hour, and suddenly she's back online. I think she knew that last time she wasn't online for a few days I showed consideration and asked about her, and lurked in the shadows until I made some kind of a move. The signs line up perfectly. She knows that the thing I dread most is abandonment - so she did just that, hurt me at my most vulnerable points, gave me silent treatment until I caved - broke up with me, and continues to test me.

At least, that's my opinion. I haven't shown any sign of care towards her for about 5 days now (sent the Instagram request last Thursday). I want to at least last one month before even looking at her profile. So far so good.   

[cosmonaut]

It seems from the examples that you gave, that perhaps she is only reacting to you.  What do you think about that?

2 days after the b/u I liked a post of her on Instagram, she immediately changed her profile picture both there and on WhatsApp to my favorite picture of her.

Tried texting her a day later, explaining myself, begging for her to take me back, she told me to stop bothering her, to which I said "fine, have a nice life".

Tried texting her 2 weeks later - didn't even get a "seen", but she went and changed her profile picture AGAIN (revealing she got a new haircut, she wasn't smiling, almost looked pissed).

And so on.

Could it be that you are trying to "read the chicken bones", if you will?  That you are reading into her social media things that she doesn't intend?  What do you think about that?

[Bassoutcast]

Possible. Yet the consistency is what bothers me. She knew I "cyber-stalked" her even during our r/s (towards the end of it, mostly), and she knows I'm looking into it. Plus the mutual friend only contacting when I stop playing with my ex... .seems a little too much for it to simply be me "trying to read into it". Often she tried to get MY attention. her "nope" was a clear. My mutual friend was also the one who "bridged" between us when my ex gave me the silent treatment during our b/u. She's basically our "line of communication".

What do you think?

[cosmonaut]

Do you think it's appropriate to be cyber-stalking your ex?  Is that a healthy thing for us to be doing?  I think it might be worth exploring why you feel the need to do that, Bass.  Why are you keeping tabs on her?  Why are you continuing to contact her via social media?  She's asked you to leave her alone, hasn't she?  I would reflect on these, because I think they are important to your healing.  This isn't to criticize you, it's to help you.  It seems like you may be getting stuck.

[Bassoutcast]

Do you think it's appropriate to be cyber-stalking your ex?  Is that a healthy thing for us to be doing?  I think it might be worth exploring why you feel the need to do that, Bass.  Why are you keeping tabs on her?  Why are you continuing to contact her via social media?  She's asked you to leave her alone, hasn't she?  I would reflect on these, because I think they are important to your healing.  This isn't to criticize you, it's to help you.  It seems like you may be getting stuck.

I know it's not appropriate, I know. But she told people to "stop bothering her" before - and I think I know her well enough to know that she WANTS the other person to chase her, to come after her, to try and make amends with her, to "forgive and forget" and act like it never happened.

I already said - I stopped 5 days ago and so far going great. I know I'm addicted to her, it's a disease, I crave her like a drug addict, it's insane... .that's the power of the idealization phase... .I think it has to do with my nature as well, I can't accept something isn't mine, been like that since early childhood... .I'll do ANYTHING to get what I want... .it's a great quality when used correctly, but seems like this is not the case... .I'm desperately trying to cling onto my fantasy... .collect the shattered pieces from the ground and re-assemble the mirror that reflected what I once thought was my soul-mate... .

[cosmonaut]

I know it's not appropriate, I know. But she told people to "stop bothering her" before - and I think I know her well enough to know that she WANTS the other person to chase her, to come after her, to try and make amends with her, to "forgive and forget" and act like it never happened.

This is a little disturbing, Bass.  Stop means stop, right?  How can you assume that stop doesn't mean stop?  Can you see that you are making a dangerous assumption here?  What would you be thinking in her situation?  Something to really think about.   

I already said - I stopped 5 days ago and so far going great. I know I'm addicted to her, it's a disease, I crave her like a drug addict, it's insane... .that's the power of the idealization phase... .I think it has to do with my nature as well, I can't accept something isn't mine, been like that since early childhood... .I'll do ANYTHING to get what I want... .it's a great quality when used correctly, but seems like this is not the case... .I'm desperately trying to cling onto my fantasy... .collect the shattered pieces from the ground and re-assemble the mirror that reflected what I once thought was my soul-mate... .

These are good realizations.  A relationship with such intense idealization and mirroring, can indeed be very powerful.  It forms a very loaded bond, just as 2010 described in the post I showed you above. 

Why do you believe that your ex is "yours"?  She's an autonomous, free person, right?  Relationships are gifts and they must be freely given.  We can't make anyone love us.  Love doesn't want to hold someone in bondage, wouldn't you agree?  Maybe the most loving thing to do is to let your ex go?

I think you are making some important insights, Bass.  It's looking at ourselves that we can start to make true progress in healing.  Keep going.   

[Bassoutcast]

I know it's not appropriate, I know. But she told people to "stop bothering her" before - and I think I know her well enough to know that she WANTS the other person to chase her, to come after her, to try and make amends with her, to "forgive and forget" and act like it never happened.

This is a little disturbing, Bass.  Stop means stop, right?  How can you assume that stop doesn't mean stop?  Can you see that you are making a dangerous assumption here?  What would you be thinking in her situation?  Something to really think about.   

I already said - I stopped 5 days ago and so far going great. I know I'm addicted to her, it's a disease, I crave her like a drug addict, it's insane... .that's the power of the idealization phase... .I think it has to do with my nature as well, I can't accept something isn't mine, been like that since early childhood... .I'll do ANYTHING to get what I want... .it's a great quality when used correctly, but seems like this is not the case... .I'm desperately trying to cling onto my fantasy... .collect the shattered pieces from the ground and re-assemble the mirror that reflected what I once thought was my soul-mate... .

These are good realizations.  A relationship with such intense idealization and mirroring, can indeed be very powerful.  It forms a very loaded bond, just as 2010 described in the post I showed you above. 

Why do you believe that your ex is "yours"?  She's an autonomous, free person, right?  Relationships are gifts and they must be freely given.  We can't make anyone love us.  Love doesn't want to hold someone in bondage, wouldn't you agree?  Maybe the most loving thing to do is to let your ex go?

I think you are making some important insights, Bass.  It's looking at ourselves that we can start to make true progress in healing.  Keep going.   

I never said she's "mine", I have no right to tell her how to feel or make her fall in love with me. you can never make another person feel something, nor contradict their feelings - it's THEIR feelings, and only THEY have the right to know if they're right or not about them.

I do, however, somehow feel the "cyber-stalking" is mutual. It might as well be a hunch, but even if she was "reacting to me" as you said, it means she cares enough to at least look at my profile & status, and react to that. If she wouldn't care AT ALL she wouldn't even do that. It's all an assumption, and I don't keep my hopes up very high, they're moderate, at best... .

I do know one thing - she told me she has these "phases" - a few months where she's relatively functioning, followed by a few months where she's completely "lost" and suicidal, followed again by a period of relative functioning and so on. based on what I've gathered from all that she told me - her usual "lost" period is spring and fall, and her stable period is summer and winter... .she made all of these "metaphors" right before our b/u - "I'm going to cut my hair, I know you don't like it but it'll grow back 'till summer", wrote a song (something she's never done before) about new beginnings, asking the reader (I'm the only one who read it) to understand her pain and that she's lost... .etc.

I'm already healing myself, I stopped trying to get her attention or trying to read into her social media. Her "nope" status was 100% pointed at me, this I'm sure of (even asked a bunch of friends - all said it's for me). It's still hard to stay away from her social networks, but I'm gradually doing it, each time taking more time between looking. Decided that today was the last time and this time I'm going to last a month - to let myself heal, to let her miss me (she can't miss me if I'm constantly sending her requests, right? that'll just increase her resentment towards me), and to make myself lose the habit of cyber-stalking her. (it's crucial for me to lose this habit - if we'll ever get back together I'll finally be able to hold a stable relationship without keeping tabs on her, and if not - at least I won't make the same mistake in the next r/s).

I've been dealing with all 4 initial stages of grief, 5th one being acceptance, but I'm starting to get a sense of it... .I feel like preventing myself from keeping tabs on her will help me realize and accept this... .the more I look into her social media, the faster I fall down into the pit of depression I'm trying to climb out of... .At least I'm at a point where I can sometimes think clearly, look at the r/s from a different, neutral angle, and see it's flaws and the clues that led to the b/u, our problems, etc.

I'll disappear from her radar for a month, then I'll hit her up before the concert, to see if she'd like to go. If I'll stay in NC for at least that month, I'll be able to face the rejection better - might even not want to invite her to go with me at all, who knows? time will tell.

[cosmonaut]

I do, however, somehow feel the "cyber-stalking" is mutual. It might as well be a hunch, but even if she was "reacting to me" as you said, it means she cares enough to at least look at my profile & status, and react to that. If she wouldn't care AT ALL she wouldn't even do that. It's all an assumption, and I don't keep my hopes up very high, they're moderate, at best... .

Why do you feel that it is mutual?  From what you've shared, it seems to be very one directional.  You initiate contact with her and she responds, or perhaps even more often she didn't respond.  You are interpreting her changing her profile picture and such to have some sort of secret message to you.  When you ask her about it, she says it's not about you.  What convinces you that it is?

I'm already healing myself, I stopped trying to get her attention or trying to read into her social media. Her "nope" status was 100% pointed at me, this I'm sure of (even asked a bunch of friends - all said it's for me). It's still hard to stay away from her social networks, but I'm gradually doing it, each time taking more time between looking. Decided that today was the last time and this time I'm going to last a month - to let myself heal, to let her miss me (she can't miss me if I'm constantly sending her requests, right? that'll just increase her resentment towards me), and to make myself lose the habit of cyber-stalking her. (it's crucial for me to lose this habit - if we'll ever get back together I'll finally be able to hold a stable relationship without keeping tabs on her, and if not - at least I won't make the same mistake in the next r/s).

That is very positive, Bass.  I think you need to give both you and your ex some space to heal right now.  I think you've identified earlier some really good aspects of yourself to examine and work on.  That's the very best thing we can be doing, and it will truly help you.  Many of us have some deep wounds that have been reactivated by the breakup of our relationship, and healing these can be a silver lining.

I'll disappear from her radar for a month, then I'll hit her up before the concert, to see if she'd like to go. If I'll stay in NC for at least that month, I'll be able to face the rejection better - might even not want to invite her to go with me at all, who knows? time will tell.

Has she asked you to not contact her?  If so, it's important to respect her boundaries, just as we need to enforce our own boundaries.  I know it may be very hard to refrain from contacting your ex when you so desperately want to do so, but maybe thinking of it as the most loving thing you could do helps.  We are a trigger, and we are showing love by giving space.  I believe that very much, and it has helped me to not contact my ex.  I want her to be able to heal, just as I want to heal myself.

[Bassoutcast]

One thing tells me this is mutual - her response to my status quoting her favorite song, by changing her profile picture to look like that song's music video - keep in mind it required a lot of filters and editing. Logged off as soon as I logged it - like 5 times, then when I react with "What the heck" and the emoji we used as nicknames for each other - she changes her status to "nope". Keep in mind that this is WhatsApp - an app more popular here in Europe, it's basically a texting app with your phone contacts, only with profile pictures and personal statuses, and she wasn't following me on instagram at that time - meaning she had to go to my profile, filter her picture according to that music video, update it in an app where she could see I was online (has no Facebook or anything) to see it, saw my reaction - to which she had to go through her phone book in order to get to my status - and within minutes changed her status to "nope". That's what tells me it's mutual.

You're right, in a sense. I need to clear my mind with NC - then I'll see if I even want to continue this "saga". (or if there's anything to "continue" at all).

"You can't move on to the nEXt when you're thinking 'bout your EX"

[cosmonaut]

You're right, in a sense. I need to clear my mind with NC - then I'll see if I even want to continue this "saga". (or if there's anything to "continue" at all).

That sounds like a really good plan, Bass.     We're all here to support you in that too.

[Bassoutcast]

You're right, in a sense. I need to clear my mind with NC - then I'll see if I even want to continue this "saga". (or if there's anything to "continue" at all).

That sounds like a really good plan, Bass.     We're all here to support you in that too.

Thanks. I think I'll stop posting here for a while and just sit in the shadows... .all of this constant talk about my BPD ex makes me think about her... .I should work on myself instead... .

[Bassoutcast]

Had a long talk with my dad about the subject - he predicted our r/s from start to finish (actually warned me about things that later on actually happened to my surprise), and told me we looked more like "friends trying to be a couple" than an actual couple.

Read a few other posts here and on the Leaving board about how amazing the connection was at first - but with no physical attraction, just a very good friendship, and the NON ends up convincing himself to fall in love. I actually asked her out mainly b/c I thought we had a good chemistry as friends so why not? plus everyone around us kept telling how cute we look together and that we should totally be a couple... .actually there were times during the r/s where I thought about breaking up with her b/c I wasn't sure I was attracted to her, but was afraid she might harm herself... .I think a lot of my pain has to do with the fact that I lost a really good friend of mine in the process... .

Still no cyber-stalking, feeling proud of myself 

[cosmonaut]

I can really relate to that, Bass.  It's a true loss.  And one we have to grieve.  We lost someone special from our lives.  I really get that.  I'm sorry you're having to go through that too, man.

Hang in there.  We're all in this together.

[felix22]

This sounds so difficult. I'm sorry that you are dealing with so much pain and confusion. This sort of thing; same time period and everything is what got me into counseling with my therapist. That was 3.5 years ago. It was a difficult and challenging year! But, I healed. Now, I look back and am soo thankful that I didn't end up with her. Unfortunately, I went right back and made the same mistake of becoming physically intimate and hormonally involved with another gal, before I really knew what I was jumping into. BUT, as difficult as the second mistake has been, it was never as hard as the first one. Everything I learned from those months prepared me to deal with so much. I had to go through all of that healing though, with my counselor helping me out. Lots and lots of wet Kleenex filled with tears. I am so glad that I didn't end up with that woman! I am now interested in meeting someone, getting to know them and seeing if they pass the 'spilled wine test'; how they do in a pressure-situation; and if they are at all crazy or not. Before you go to that concert, do yourself a favor and seek some good guidance first.

[JRT]

That was an insightful post, thank you for sharing.

In my case it's more difficult than "typical" BPD r/s I think, because unlike the vast majority of pwBPD who act-out, rage, etc, it's very hard to know what's on a "waif"'s mind. It can be masked, tolerated, accepted, and then just explode right in your face when you let your guard down.

I actually think my ex still thinks of me and "tests" me. She wasn't online for like 10 days, right about after I stopped playing her games. Last time she wasn't online for a few days I asked out mutual friend to see if she's OK. I fell for it and sent her an Instagram request (to see if she's still alive, I know, ridiculous) - She denied it and suddenly she's back online (As if thinking - "OK, he's not reacting? I wonder if this'll get him to worry about me". That happened last Thursday... .stopped playing her games ever since, deactivated my Instagram temporarily... .if our mutual friend reaches out again - chances are I'll ignore her. Basically saying "You want to talk? you have my number" 

Bass... .this IS contact.

You will recall that mine was a waif/hermit as well. And even though the relationship was generally good, they are both borderlines with the same angst, rage (albeit internal) and other dysfunction that comes with their condition.

She is manipulating you with these online antics. You are telling her that 'I am still interested' and adding 'even though you didn't treat me with respect and decency with what you have done'... .and also saying 'I will be ok with it again if you would like to return'. Keep in mind; very small signs like these speak very large volumes to them.

Maybe you two were made for one another, I don't know. But if you want to pursue a happy relationship with her you will have to define your boundaries this way. Going FULL NC speaks volumes on your behalf. Notwithstanding by virtue of the push/pull nature of BPD, any contact is unwelcome and will push them further away. This includes 'serendipitous' contact like that concert.

I have read accounts of such chance encounters here where the pwBPD reacted with such terror as if their non was someone that was going to do them great bodily harm. Some call the police and make up whatever lie that they have to in order for the cops to exercise their authority. My own ex called the cops on me when I broke NC on xmas eve!

I had already accepted in my head that I was going to share the rest of my life with this woman. I was just days away from assigning joint ownership of my home, bank accounts and other assets... .I loved her some much that I swear I would have had no problem standing in front of a moving train for her. Instead, I was painted black in a half a day, she moved out and blocked me from contact and I have never heard a word from her since... .I don't even know where she lives!

So, I KNOW how difficult that this is. You MAY have a chance with her still... .but you have to summon all of your strength and discipline and maintain FULL NC until that time that she is ready to talk. And at that time, you will need to determine what conditions that you will insist need to be satisfied for her to return. Break my heart but love will NOT conquer BPD... .if you want to continue, she needs to admit her problem, commit to therapy and take it seriously. Otherwise, you are setting yourself up for the recycles that characterize these relationships (I had 6). 

[Bassoutcast]

When you're saying "this IS contact" - you mean on her side too? 'cause I know it's contact on my side.

Hung a sheet of paper on my closet on which I wrote "One must sacrifice a battle to win the war" and started marking the days of NC (a diagonal line each day, a horizontal one on the fifth) - so far It's been 1 1/2 days of FULL NC, no cyber-stalking, nothing. I can go hours without thinking about it, then I start craving it like a drug. Every time I feel like breaking NC I either get my sister to slap me or just pray for strength.

The day before I went NC she saw I was online (chatting with our mutual friend, neither of us mentioned my ex, we simply caught up on life). My ex tried to get my attention by changing her profile picture again - this time to an ADORABLE picture of her dog (She knows I love her dog). I acted like I didn't even notice it and just thanked God for that sign and smiled. I intend on going AT LEAST 30 days of NC, then I'll re-evaluate my feelings and see where I want to go with this.

With each passing day my mind becomes clearer.

[Infern0]

Bass you are on the right track if you are wanting her back.

it's by no means a guarantee she will come back,  it all depends if the pull cycle activates in her brain which is pretty much random,  but fairly likely to trigger at some stage. I'm going to give you the advice which I found worked for me with my waif.

Right now she's in the push phase, by going NC you have a chance of activating the pull cycle.  If that gets activated you can expect her to send a charming type text.  This text probably won't be direct,  it'll likely be asking a question about something random.

At this stage DO NOT respond.

You want to ignore her for 3 days,  she will begin to panic as her abandonment trigger will go off and she will be desperate for a response,  she will start blowing up your phone begging for contact.

DO NOT REPLY

After 3 days send this

"If you want to talk come over now"

She will be there at warp speed and ready to do pretty much anything you ask.

After that you are on your own bro, as predictable as the pull cycle is,  so is the push cycle not too long after it. Good luck.

[JRT]

When you're saying "this IS contact" - you mean on her side too? 'cause I know it's contact on my side.

Yes... .no contact means no contact at all, period. It includes contact from her, cyber stalking, letters, driving by her house, etc. The idea is to cut off the 'drug' and train your mind to not think about her any longer. The pain will gradually go away but it takes time. The more you contact her (even indirectly), the more that you will think about her and the longer the pain will endure. Even being on this forum can serve in the same way (everything in moderation).

[maxen]

hi Bass.

I can go hours without thinking about it, then I start craving it like a drug.

it's a whipsaw experience, as i and many others here will be able to tell you. you're doing it for yourself, as you clearly know, and what she intends through her social media is not part of that calculation. i know that's easy for someone else like me to point out, but hard to absorb.

Every time I feel like breaking NC I either get my sister to slap me

you have your father and your sister on the case with you. that's great! are there others whom you can lean on now? buds you hang out with, a counselor or therapist, anyone else you can spend your time with or who sees what's up?

[patientandclear]

Bass you are on the right track if you are wanting her back.

it's by no means a guarantee she will come back,  it all depends if the pull cycle activates in her brain which is pretty much random,  but fairly likely to trigger at some stage. I'm going to give you the advice which I found worked for me with my waif.

Right now she's in the push phase, by going NC you have a chance of activating the pull cycle.  If that gets activated you can expect her to send a charming type text.  This text probably won't be direct,  it'll likely be asking a question about something random.

At this stage DO NOT respond.

You want to ignore her for 3 days,  she will begin to panic as her abandonment trigger will go off and she will be desperate for a response,  she will start blowing up your phone begging for contact.

DO NOT REPLY

After 3 days send this

"If you want to talk come over now"

She will be there at warp speed and ready to do pretty much anything you ask.

After that you are on your own bro, as predictable as the pull cycle is,  so is the push cycle not too long after it. Good luck.

Anything you achieve through game playing like this would have what value?

How can we say we love someone if we manipulate their known triggers in this way, causing panic, causing them to offer and do things they really don't want to offer and do, just to prevent abandonment?

[Bassoutcast]

maxen - I have a great support system, my 2 best friends help me out greatly and support my every move, and they all advise me to go NC, saying it's the best possible way to get her back (if it ended partially b/c I was clingy AF, I need to change that and be independent). I'm doing NC for 2 reasons - either to be strong enough emotionally to give "us" another try when she's ready, or to be strong enough so it won't wreck me if it doesn't happen. My sister had an ex come back after more than 6 months so who knows. either way - I'll be able to face whatever comes my way.

patientandclear - absolutely agree, If she reaches out I will not play any games or play her triggers like keys on a piano to make her dance to my melody, I'll just be myself - the guy before the r/s, the carefree, caring guy she fell for.

JRT - Got it. I went to my country's most sacred place today with my mom (as part of a "road-trip", finally spilled the beans on what's been bothering me for all these years - we talked it out, felt great. Prayed for my ex there. I'm not a religious person but I have faith and every time I prayed for something there it happened so who knows. I have faith.

[Bassoutcast]

Had a busy day today, spent the day working (got a new job at a gas station, weekend shifts included), felt good... .then thought about her, started getting heartaches, pain running up and down my arm... .a "mini panic-attack" if you will... .met with my dad to support him through his difficult time (recent separation from my mom)... .spent a lot of time working on myself... .thought about her again, ended up sketching her in a notebook for about 20 minutes... .god I miss her so much... .

Started watching videos of a b/u coach called Corey Wayne, he stated "the strongest negotiating position is being able to walk away, and mean it"... .I think it's true in someway, and NC does make it easier (so far 3 whole days, a new record... .It's VERY tempting to break NC, but I know I'm not thinking clearly and will end up hurting myself for no reason).

Idk what you guys believe in, but I've read her monthly horoscope and it's stated she might "consider getting in tough with a person who harmed her before"... .that's a sign. Plus I've been praying for signs and I'm getting them... .I have hope. It's what keeps me sane... .

[JRT]

Stay strong... .this will pass

[Bassoutcast]

Stay strong... .this will pass

I hear what you're saying but I'm starting to doubt it... .her absence makes my heart grow fonder, and although I started seeing things as they were rather then what I thought they were through my rose-colored glasses... .When we had our last fight (one before the b/u) when she took a day for herself I told her how much it tormented me and in how much pain I was and she didn't even bother reassuring me, telling me it's ok, anything - I think in her mind it was a punishment I deserved to "learn my lesson" (for a minor argument that almost turned into a b/u on her end). She learned that was my sore spot and used it again - this time on a larger scale. I do love her, dammit, and I am willing to give it another go - it was way too short to begin with... .

Found out I have a "pattern" - I mostly feel good throughout the day, but then after sunset when I'm home I start missing her so much... .I just want to share my day with her, hear about what she's been up to, she small-talk... .I miss it the most... .sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, look over to the empty pillow beside me and imagine she's laying there... .

NC - been 4 days and counting... .I find this place a safe haven for my pain... .thanks, guys... .