I just met a diagnosed BPD

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Hey All:

So this is interesting. I was trying to get back on the dating scene and I had a honest description of why I'm dating because I had an exBPD wife and etc... .I got this email from this girl and straight off the bat, she started to ask about how long ago was she diagnosed and gave me opinions about how I should have dealt with and how I'm coping with the aftermath.

She was so familiar with the symptoms, so I asked how come she knows so much? So she responded that she was diagnosed two years ago and been going to therapy (DBT). We later changed to texting and boy, that was hundreds of text messages within a day or two.  I'm getting my red flags ready.

So I'm paying attention to see if she's trying to lure me in and all, i.e the idealization stage... .but honestly it feels like she's working through a lot of the BPD issues.  She didn't paint her ex black (good), she recognized a lot of the issues has to do with her insecurities (good), that her feeling was illogical (good),  but she still felt her relationship towards the end was just "without love" (bad), and that her ex just seemed like no longer had the passion or love for her (bad).  She recognized that due to her BPD, he was walking on eggshell (good) but because of that, he was being too careful and distant, at the end, they just fell apart as two strangers in the same house (somewhat bad, still blaming?)

Anyway, am I being too alerted? I mean, it's funny I post an ad about dating again because of my non diagnosed BPD exwife and then I get a diagnosed BPD back?  I have weird feelings all over me.  Should I even bother continuing talking to her or just drop it like a hot potato?

ps: For strange reasons, she's also a hot girl just like my ex. So I don't want myself to think with my non-brain body part if you know what I mean.  How come it's always the hot girls having these symptoms?

Thanks all.

[LeonVa]

Hey All:

So this is interesting. I was trying to get back on the dating scene and I had a honest description of why I'm dating because I had an exBPD wife and etc... .I got this email from this girl and straight off the bat, she started to ask about how long ago was she diagnosed and gave me opinions about how I should have dealt with and how I'm coping with the aftermath.

She was so familiar with the symptoms, so I asked how come she knows so much? So she responded that she was diagnosed two years ago and been going to therapy (DBT). We later changed to texting and boy, that was hundreds of text messages within a day or two.  I'm getting my red flags ready.

So I'm paying attention to see if she's trying to lure me in and all, i.e the idealization stage... .but honestly it feels like she's working through a lot of the BPD issues.  She didn't paint her ex black (good), she recognized a lot of the issues has to do with her insecurities (good), that her feeling was illogical (good),  but she still felt her relationship towards the end was just "without love" (bad), and that her ex just seemed like no longer had the passion or love for her (bad).  She recognized that due to her BPD, he was walking on eggshell (good) but because of that, he was being too careful and distant, at the end, they just fell apart as two strangers in the same house (somewhat bad, still blaming?)

Anyway, am I being too alerted? I mean, it's funny I post an ad about dating again because of my non diagnosed BPD exwife and then I get a diagnosed BPD back?  I have weird feelings all over me.  Should I even bother continuing talking to her or just drop it like a hot potato?

ps: For strange reasons, she's also a hot girl just like my ex. So I don't want myself to think with my non-brain body part if you know what I mean.  How come it's always the hot girls having these symptoms?

Thanks all.

[enlighten me]

I certainly wouldnt want a romantic connection. It would interest me though to be able to talk about BPD with someone on the other side of the fence.

I can see how the walking on eggshelves and her exs behaviour would be triggering as I also withdrew from my ex for self preservation. Maybe she realises it was her behaviour that caused him to behave that way.

[LeonVa]

@englightenme, yeah, I guess that's why I kept on talking as it was a real eye opener to hear a BPD talking about how they are feeling.

This is what she said about walking on eggshell. I extracted part of the conversation from my text to share with you guys. Maybe it'll give you guys a peek at BPD from their perspective.

=======================

Me: and it's not that your ex is bored with you. I think for us nons, we are afraid of doing something wrong that might trigger you guys... .walking on the eggshells if you must. So we try not to get overly excited in fear of triggering you guys.

Her: But I know my insecurities stem from not feeling wanted and that makes me feel wanted.

Her: Yea I've actually heard him say that exact thing. It's sad because from my view it's like he's lost all passion. Everything he says is too safe you know

... .

Her:  It's funny the eggshells thing. It's a lot of balancing work I assume because even BPD ppl don't know what they want

Her:  I think I want more alpha without being Hitler

... .

Her: But sometimes I'd pick a little fight just for the make up sex. He's better when he's a little mad.

Me:  Really? You consciously made the decision or was it unconsciously?

Her: No not beforehand but sometimes I'll feel really bad and really be attached to him mad.

... .

Me: and another trait of BPD (my ex wife at least), is that she NEVER EVER apologize... .I mean I've done plenty of apologizing... .can she just do it once? To be honest, I will be so moved to just hear the word "I'm sorry honey. I lost it".

... .

Her: Yea. My ex says that too about me. It's not that I don't feel guilty it's that I don't believe in free apologies. Free on my part not his. I think when people apologize too much there's no change. It's like they can do whatever and somehow I'm sorry is supposed to fix it. So I don't like to say I'm sorry because to me I know I messed up and it's not my place to ask forgiveness anymore.

Me: Very interesting perspective... .thanks for sharing once again. Though, from time to time, it does help... .we will feel much closer to you. hahah.

Her: Hahaha idk. I just don't say it much. If I do it's in a text or email. I don't actually verbalized it

Her: I think with BPD there's a lot of self punishment involved.

Me: I think we'll take it in any form! no need to even do it in person. We are STARVED. haha.

Her: Not to say that all absence of apology is self punishment but some of it is I think. I think the other half is just being uncomfortable with verbalizing it and that I have no idea why it's so hard to say.

Me: Self punishment like how? My impression of you guys are always project your fear onto us... .but how are you punishing yourself?

Me: Oh i see... .I can see your point.

Her: Like with I don't deserve to say I'm sorry. Or I'll find other ways that aren't healthy. Not today but back then I used to pinch myself a lot. Sounds stupid saying it but there's just a lot of self hatred wrapped into it.

=======================

[LeonVa]

Other parts of our conversation

=============

... .

Her: Self hatred and self preservation. It's a funny thing to balance into one person

Me: Yeah, my ex wife one time after a huge upset, she used a toothbrush and tried to cut herself... .from what I read online, self harm sometimes helps with your emotional pain. I get that finally after I read about BPD.

Her: I guess that's why BPD people blow up. Trying to balance too many negative emotions rather than positively releasing

Her: Yea. It's funny to read about. It doesn't seem to make much sense reading about it but when you're in that much pain it's all that makes sense anymore

Me: I hear you. Thanks for this direct talk to talk. I truly appreciate it. It really helps me to understand about BPD that much more.

Her: My thing when I get to that toothbrush point is a point I've felt I've lost everything. Everything and I don't deserve more than what I've been given in that particular moment. I lose all perspective. I'm just drowning in failure.

Her: And the funny thing is it gets to a point it's not even about that moment anymore. It's an accumulation of every bad thing that's ever happened and you think it's meant to happen to you and only you

Me: I see, but listen, you guys are not failures. We didn't view it that way, never have... .as long as you guys do not over react, or simply just talk out at that point to us, we will all understand you and love you

Her: That for whatever reason you've been picked out for punishment and it's deserved. That's really what it feels like in a tooth brush moment

Me: and the thing is? Bad things happen to all of us. We are not all that lovable by everyone. Not even hollywood stars can pull that off, so believe in yourself and people around you.

Her: That's why DBT is important. It helps you incorporate balcony perspective into moments like that 9:36 PM

Me: Got you. My exwife never told me what you just told me... .sigh.

Her: She probably doesn't want to be vulnerable to criticism. Like being diagnosed will invalidate any feelings she has but what she needs to see is her feelings are for certain valid. Her reactions maybe not so much.

Her I felt that way. When I was told about it. I felt it meant whatever I said was crazy and now my feelings didn't matter because they weren't "real" or normal feelings. But they are. She can have every right to feel bad about something but a reaction to a negative trigger is separate from the recourse following. She can be mad. She has a reason to be mad. But she doesn't necessarily have a reason to break things or etc

Me: I've learned a lot lately... .I think the last fight we had, instead of validate her feelings, I questioned her albeit very mild... .that set her off unfortunately, 6 cops showed up in my house... .I should have trained myself better in communication.

Her: Yea. It's like learning a different language. Bpd doesn't mean she's seeing things. If she sees something upsetting then there is a legitimate reason regardless of how she's verbalizing it.

... .

==========================

[enlighten me]

Great insights. Thanks for sharing.

[shatterd]

my oh my    NIGHTMARES 

[LeonVa]

@shattered, a nightmare for me waiting to happen? hahah. or are you talking about her? or both of us? .

[shatterd]

Flash back for me and how she was... .not saying its going to happen to you tho... .i wood for pay close attention,uve ben here before, u mentiond. maybe this time u can better prepare urself and see if she i realy changed before u get into deep. Spend time here and ask and read alot... .were for you what ever u decide

[Loosestrife]

I would run now. You are in danger of a repeated pattern

[Silveron]

Leon,

  You do not know what you are dealing with when it comes to a BPD.  Consider yourself lucky that you got forewarned.  I would highly recommend to NOT get into a relationship with her and break contact now.  She will lure you in no matter how much you know about BPD.  Unless you have had a relationship with a BPD you don't know their tactics and what they are capable of.

  Continuing this will change your life forever in a negative way.  It's almost like trying to get close to a sociopath/psychopath.  You think you know how to interact but they will always be one step ahead of you.  The only way to win at 'her' game is to not play it.  Stay away for your own safety.

[LeonVa]

Hey Guys:

I hear ya. Just to clear it up, I'm a recently divorced from an un-diagnosed BPD, so I know exactly how they operate.   It's just that this girl is a self aware, diagnosed, in treatment BPD, that's why I'm asking.

I'm taking all the warnings you guys give me very seriously, I will keep my distance.

Thanks

[Sunfl0wer]

Interesting conversation and insights about BPD and seeing the person inside of the behaviors.

I wonder though... .

About judging people based on compartmentalizes versions of their whole self?  How do we get to know a full person?  How many aspects of their life do we need to experience and for what duration?  :)o we need to see them in a crisis? Do we need to see them at work, with family, with friends?

I say this because part of what I see in these exchanges is a fantasy.  Not saying that you are in a fantasy... .but it is sort of a fantasy that I experience when enjoying one aspect of a person, it is not the whole person.

So just as is written here, with my uNPD/BPDex our beginning conversations were filled with insights, patience and understanding and empathy, care, and concern for me and others.  (With no PD talk tho)

So what happened?  How do we see whole person?

[LeonVa]

@Sunflower, my experience with BPDs (my exwife at least), is that you can't see the whole person unless you live with them.  They act and behave COMPLETELY normal, in fact, my ex-wife was more understanding and normal than girls I have dated in the past.  

I thought I finally found a reasonable girl.  However, judging from her work relationships (change job once a year at LEAST) should be a red flag... .but we work in IT, contractors, it's not completely unnormal... .however, it's HOW they changed their jobs should have raised the red flags.  She basically don't get along with any of the coworkers at any of the places.   That tells you something.

In addition, her clear black and white image of the world is pretty classic of BPDs. I just wish I knew about them before we started dating.

One last thing,  she appeared to understand the concept of get along with families, I saw how she interacted with her own families and her side of in-laws, not only normal, but very good.  In fact, when one of her brother-in-law was acting ridiculous, she was very mature about it and told me how irresponsible it was and how childish he was, he was not right to treat families the way he did.

I thought she will get along with my family just fine in that case. NOT SO!  They are good when it's happening to other people. If put themselves in the same situation, they are much worst.

[Sunfl0wer]

Mine got along great with others and had the same job over ten yrs.  He was not the acting out type, but PA mainly. 

I still am unsettled with this.  I still want to know what I don't know.

If my brilliant T met him, and was in my position during the courtship, I think he could have figured out different things than me, seen things different, idk.

One thing I see looking back, is all the complaints he shared with me that his exw had about him, I should have considered them more thoughtfully.  Even tho I didn't see those issues, instead of thinking she's nuts, I could have pondered the possibility of her truth, as told to me by him.

[LeonVa]

@Sunflower. Agree.  My exwife told me how she broke up with her ex-boyfriend of 12 years before we met, now thinking back, I figured out that it was probably her, not him.  Same thing that happened to him is happening to me. Unfortunately, it was a tad too late.

[FannyB]

Wow - this is fascinating stuff! I often ponder what my relationship would have been like if I'd known she had BPD from the off. In your situation I'd be tempted to give it a crack and back myself not to get emotionally attached. Is it possible though to take the good parts of a BPD relationship and eradicate the bad?   On the balance of probabilities it's best to walk away - but tempting nonetheless! 

[Sunfl0wer]

Oddly enough, I could have stayed with him and delt with all the PD issues... .if he showed effort and willingness to face himself/reality of things.  We could have grown together... .unevenly maybe... .but still growing.

The catch 22 is that it is because of the PD traits, that he could not do this.

Some have posted that they stay with their partner because it is "in sickness and health."  I agree with this... .to an extent... .to the extent that it serves the r/s in a way that enables a r/s.

I could live with my man losing both legs.

Us sorting through the grief together.

But to imagine living with a man who didn't know his legs were gone ... .then being pissed at ME for telling him he couldn't go out jogging with me today, him being mad that it is my fault, like I was punishing him for not going jogging with me. 

Well, displaced anger in this situation, would be somewhat understandable... . 

Then him forgetting a train ran over his legs, thinking I axed them off.  Living out a reality fearful of me as though I did axe them off?

Or if I tried to help him get a wheelchair or prosthetics, so he COULD go jogging with me, so we could be closer in things, but instead, he felt that helping him put his prosthetic legs on, infuriated him, as he felt that it was my fault, to give him "fake" legs, therefore kicked me with them instead of went jogging with me like I was hoping. (Like going to therapy)

This is how it felt often.  Trying so hard to get close... .to do things that would empower us as a couple... .only to be kicked on my butt for trying.  Leaving me baffled, confused and alone... .in a "r/s." (While he took the prostheitcs that I spent thousands on and threw them at me)

Or even maybe a less extreme example of people I have encountered:

A man in end stage renal disease, on dialysis, intentionally eating sugars and foods that damaged him, whenever he was getting better.  The function was for him to sustain the role of the sick one needing help... .to keep the dynamic of wife taking care of him, and close by his side.  The reality was that he had potential to improve and be an equal physical and emotional partner in the r/s, however, he was not comfortable in this role as he knew she would never leave him as long as he was sick.  So how sick is that?  Seems similar to PD dynamic to me.  Maybe leaving him would have enabled him to become healthier as a necessity.  (bolding enabled as we often use it as a derogatory term, when in fact it can also be a powerful empowering word)

LeonVa:  There has to be another way... .moving in can not be the only way!  Someone please tell us!

If a predator knows how to spot a person to rob... .out of 100 people, they will choose a certain person that will be easier.  We should be able to learn "PD self defense" of some sort.

I am not saying that my ex was a predator by any means... .however, I am certain that if I did not display caring, caretaking tendencies, that we would not be drawn to one another.  The fact that I was drawn to him is a function of the r/s dynamic.  So how do I demonstrate a personality that I love and embrace proudly, that does not fit well, is not compatible with a dynamic of a PD?  (maybe a second post is needed?)

I guess my point is that I played a "functional" part in a dysfunctional r/s... .so I feel that role of mine needs a closer look.

[an0ught]

Hi LeonVa,

living with a pwBPD is possible when that person learns to behave through therapy. Still such a relationship like any other relationship poses some challenges - some specific to the individual and some specific to BPD. A lot depends also on us keeping the communication validating and protecting our boundaries to maintain respect.

Check out the staying board, check out the LESSONS at the top. If you are not going NC with her you already are in some form of relationship with her so those LESSONS already apply.

Repeat offenders   who seem to be drawn to pwBPD often find answers to the "why" by looking inside themselves. There may be aspects in your past relationship but also in your upbringing that may destine you to be drawn to them or draw them to you. These may be related e.g. to events, attachment, communication patterns or how one dealt with boundaries. You may want to check out the [L6] Personal Inventory and Self-awareness board where related discussions happen.

Boundaries are rules for yourself. It may be wise to take it slowly at this point in time while you reflect on whether you want to go down this path.