New Here, kinda scared

[OversimplifiedFrazzle]

Greetings,

I am kind of nervous because admitting that there is an issue here is kind of terrifying. I mean, I know there is an issue and I've known for a while. But coming out in front of people and saying "hey, I need help too" is understandably troubling, as you all know.

I am dating guy with BPD. We are both males, and I am 26 and he is 23. We have been together 4 years. We have had many ups and downs, including several "breakups" and inevitable getting back together. I definitely feel like I want to be with him. I feel afraid at the idea that he might leave or perhaps commit suicide. He tried to commit suicide one year into our relationship in 2011. It was terrifying, but looking back I feel like I was almost... .numb to the experience. I remember being super upset and crying a lot. I remember getting home and my roommate was like ":)id you feed the dogs" and I just started crying. She was super supportive of course and everyone in my life was too. He spent a few weeks in a state mental institution where they diagnosed him with 'mild' BPD.

Fast forward to today as it is more relevant. He sometimes just freaks out. It will go from what I feel is a normal conversation to complete and total despair on his part. He says he has always wanted to "not exist". He has made it clear that he doesn't want to die anymore, so much as just never have been in the first place. This is a very strange concept to me that I don't quite understand. To me, it seems like he wants to die, but to him that is not the case anymore. He will get very happy (manic) and then obviously have a huge crash later. He tells me that he doesn't see the point to life because he will just get sad again.

The other day he had a complete meltdown because he will "never achieve his goals" despite me giving him exact advice on what to do to achieve those goals. To me it seemed like a foolproof plan, but to him it was impossible as he has "always ___ed up in the past", and has always "failed" at life (sorry for the language, it is necessary in my opinion). I don't know how to console him in these situations and he always claims I just make him feel worse no matter what I do.

I am in therapy and on anti-depressants/mood stabilizers and have been for years. He was on some medication after the suicide incident, but stopped because the mental health clinic where we lived "made him feel awful". He had therapy for a while before we moved in together, but he stopped that as he had to move towns. Now, despite urging him to get therapy and him even admitting it might help, he refuses or delays. It is always something along the lines of "why bother, I don't want to exist anyway". He finds the world awful and hates society. He hates mental health care because he says it imposes societal standards on someone and doesn't take in to account that that might not work for them. I am really bad at explaining that because I don't really get it, but basically society just is awful and thus he hates it.

I feel like I've just rambled and I feel like there is so much more to say. Please feel free to ask for clarification or any other questions you might have. I'm just kind of lost at this point because I *really* want it to work but it is very difficult.

Thank you.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[vortex of confusion]

First off, welcome!

It sounds like you are in a tough spot. Here are some hugs of support:   

This stuff is very confusing and it can be very difficult to make sense of it. Most newcomers are pointed to the lessons. If you look along the right side of the forum, you will see the lessons. They are invaluable. They will help you understand your partner's behaviors a little better. And, it will help you understand your role in the relationship. The best part is the communication tools. Before being able to make thing better, it is important to figure out how to stop making them worse.

When I was told that I needed to stop making it worse, I got mad. Why the heck do I need to change? I am not the one that is messed up in the head, my partner is. As I read and calmed down, I could see that me being frustrated and getting snarky was making things worse.

And there is also information about what to do when faced with confrontation or threats of suicide. I have only been on these forums 8 or 9 months and I am still going back and reading the lessons and asking questions. It is like peeling back the layers of an onion.

Is there one thing in particular that bothers you most that you would like to work on? I was so overwhelmed when I found this place that I couldn't answer that question. I just wanted it all to stop. As I got a grip, I was able to pick out little things to work on a little at a time.

Welcome! Keep posting and sharing and others will be along to give advice or point you to resources that might be helpful.

[OversimplifiedFrazzle]

I think I most want to work on not making him upset every time I open my mouth. Maybe trying to help him understand my point of view if possible. I'm certainly not always right, I understand that, but I feel like he just dismisses my feelings on important issues somewhat frequently. I don't know how to communicate that to him without him getting upset in some way. For instance, I think one of my biggest problems related to communicating my feelings right now is that he is NOT a rule follower and I am. For instance, I want to follow the rules of the lease. I do not want to get evicted. He on the other hand doesn't care and wants to do what he wants, some of which are more destructive than others. I've told him that when/if we get a house, he can do whatever he wants, but for now he should follow the rules.

I'll definitely review all the lessons and such. Obviously I am new and quite overwhelmed too 

[EaglesJuju]

Hi OversimplifiedFrazzle, 

Welcome aboard.

I am sorry that you are going through this.   It can be frustrating and overwhelming learning how to cope with the behaviors. I had a hard time with my pwBPD's depressive thoughts and feelings of hopelessness. The core of these feelings for a pwBPD is a lack of self-esteem and self-loathing. Sometimes a pwBPD can become a self-fulfilling prophecy and sabotage something that is seemingly working out.

I understand that you want to help your person with BPD (pwBPD). Vortex of confusion makes a great point about learning to change your behavior and thoughts. It was hard for me to understand that I cannot change my pwBPD's way of thinking and behavior. Learning about the disorder and distorted thinking really helped understanding how my pwBPD views things.

It can be incredibly invalidating when our feelings are not considered. Unfortunately, pwBPD rely heavily on their emotions. The emotions of a pwBPD can be overwhelming and pwBPD have a very hard time regulating or controlling their emotions. This can make a pwBPD have a hard time following or abiding by rules.  What specific rules is he having a hard time abiding to?

[OversimplifiedFrazzle]

<snip>

It can be incredibly invalidating when our feelings are not considered. Unfortunately, pwBPD rely heavily on their emotions. The emotions of a pwBPD can be overwhelming and pwBPD have a very hard time regulating or controlling their emotions. This can make a pwBPD have a hard time following or abiding by rules.  What specific rules is he having a hard time abiding to?

Mainly animals. He wants animals. Lots of them. Right now we are arguing over getting a pot-bellied pig. He has a lizard and we have 2 cats. His friend wants to bring in bugs and frogs. The lease clearly says "No animals other than the named below (our two cats)". It is just frustrating because, while I love animals, I don't want a zoo/farm .

Also, something you guys will notice about me is that I tend to laugh about a lot of this stuff. Kind of my coping mechanism I guess. I try not to get too upset about stuff and just keep laughing.

[an0ught]

Hi OversimplifiedFrazzle,

we only have experience with harmless feas   on the board (also threatened with evictions by landlords) so the support you get here will be limited  

Please study validation and invalidation. There is a risk of what you are doing is following your natural instincts to push against his interests each and every time he brings them up. That will be invalidating, will be driving his emotional excitement upwards and will decrease his ability to think clearly. Try in your mind distinguish to how you communicate about his ideas and where you draw a line and not agree on anything violating the lease.



are definitely cute animals. You love them too. You totally get his excitement. I mean, just think about cuddling one of those. Or maybe more than one as one would be getting lonely and then bug the lizard. Pot belly is the greatest (don't mention you are thinking of shoes and bacon  ).  If just not that darn lease would be that we can't afford to break. Totally frustrating for him.

For more on handling hard truths in conversations with pwBPD check out the workshop on SET.

to the board,

a0

[ColdEthyl]

Hello and welcome! 

It's gonna be a process, learning how to speak to a pwBPD and not freaking them out every second of the day... .but it gets better. I've been on here for almost a year now, and I'm actually getting acknowledgement of fault from my dBPDh now! We are still working on our communication, but the biggest thing is just learning how to say what you want differently.

One huge thing I can say is use more "I" statements, and stay away from "you" statements. IE instead of saying "You wanting all of these pets is irrational!" Say "I know you really want these pets. I like them too they are great! But, I am concerned about future care/ problems with our landlord." and see how that goes over. First and foremost... .whatever he says... .listen carefully. Be attentive. Show empathy before saying anything else. That's where SET comes in.

[babyducks]

Hi OverSimplifiedFrazzle,

It's nice to have you with us.  What a great introductory post you wrote.  You explained yourself a lot better than you gave yourself credit for.   

I think I most want to work on not making him upset every time I open my mouth. ... .I don't know how to communicate that to him without him getting upset in some way. .

Oh yeah, that used to drive me nuts too.  My partner and I used to have terrible problems in communicating but since I came here and worked my butt off on the tools and lessons, we are finally communicating better. (She's worked her butt off too.  just not here.)   Mind you it's not always smooth, we still have bumps in the road but it's light years ahead of where we were 2 years ago.

What I learned here is that she processes information differently than I do.   Actually to over simplify we are almost polar opposites in processing information.   So I can't respond in ways that would make sense to me, or would feel like a perfectly normal conversation to me.   My partner lives with a heighten emotional reactivity to life.   Stuff that would be disappointing to me is crushing to her.   Things that would be frustrating to me are enraging to her.   Events that are scary to me are terrifying to her.   She has learned through seven years of therapy to modify her reactions but occasionally they still get the best of her.

In the example you gave up thread:

The other day he had a complete meltdown because he will "never achieve his goals" despite me giving him exact advice on what to do to achieve those goals. To me it seemed like a foolproof plan, but to him it was impossible as he has "always ed up in the past", and has always "failed" at life (sorry for the language, it is necessary in my opinion). I don't know how to console him in these situations and he always claims I just make him feel worse no matter what I do.

Yeah my partner would have been on the roof during that conversation too.   It requires some special tools/skills to have those types of conversations without triggering an episode of emotional dysregulation.  The good news is that you can learn them here and with some practice they become easy and natural.

anOught said:

Please study validation and invalidation. There is a risk of what you are doing is following your natural instincts to push against his interests each and every time he brings them up. That will be invalidating, will be driving his emotional excitement upwards and will decrease his ability to think clearly.

And that's very good advice.   And it also fits into the example of the conversation about him never achieving his goals.   In the never achieving his goals conversations, every time you offered rationale reasonable advise about how to achieve his goals, you inadvertently invalidated his feelings.   His message was I feel like a complete and utter failure, and your unintended message back was if you do XYZ you won't feel that way anymore more, i.e see how simple it is and how unimportant you feelings how, all you have to do is X and things will be better.   For a person with BPD (pwBPD) this is like pouring gas on the fire.

For my partner she was told, a lot, stop being so overly emotional, why are you freaking out?  can't you calm down?   Words that are guaranteed to put her on the roof.   So I don't use them.

I learned here to acknowledge the emotion first.   Just like ColdEthyl said:

First and foremost... .whatever he says... .listen carefully. Be attentive. Show empathy before saying anything else. That's where SET comes in.

If my partner starts to ramp up I acknowledge something  about her feelings.   It takes some practice.   I was surprised at how often I didn't actually know what she was feeling.   Keeping it simple at first helped.   Really simple, like Isn't nice how pets give you unconditional love?  Which is probably what your guy likes about pets.

Come back and let us know how you are doing and if you tried a SET statement with your partner and how it worked.

'ducks

[OversimplifiedFrazzle]

Firstly, so much love here <3.

He has been away on business for the past month which has been a bit difficult. I went to visit him this weekend and he will be back next week. I'm going to try to use this week to read and absorb what I can from all the information here and maybe apply it to some of the various situations in our lives. He will be in a great mood in the coming weeks because one of our mutual friends is moving in.

What I learned here is that she processes information differently than I do.   Actually to over simplify we are almost polar opposites in processing information.   So I can't respond in ways that would make sense to me, or would feel like a perfectly normal conversation to me.   My partner lives with a heighten emotional reactivity to life.   Stuff that would be disappointing to me is crushing to her.   Things that would be frustrating to me are enraging to her.   Events that are scary to me are terrifying to her.   She has learned through seven years of therapy to modify her reactions but occasionally they still get the best of her.

I've noticed this as well, but it has taken a while. I still have a very hard time envisioning how things will turn out during a conversation, even a benign one about food or something.

And that's very good advice.   And it also fits into the example of the conversation about him never achieving his goals.   In the never achieving his goals conversations, every time you offered rationale reasonable advise about how to achieve his goals, you inadvertently invalidated his feelings.   His message was I feel like a complete and utter failure, and your unintended message back was if you do XYZ you won't feel that way anymore more, i.e see how simple it is and how unimportant you feelings how, all you have to do is X and things will be better.   For a person with BPD (pwBPD) this is like pouring gas on the fire.

Oh wow. This makes a LOT more sense. I think it is time to dive into these lessons

[MercuryHat]

Hi Over, welcome to the boards.  

I'm new here too. I just found my way here last week.

What a relief to see so many reflections of my (drives me) crazy reality living with my BPD partner. I go back daily to read lessons as I try to grok them and practice them.

The folks around here say there is hope. I have no reason not to believe them, even tho' I am filled with doubt at my own situation right now.

I wish you luck and look forward to seeing you around the boards, as another newbie figuring this confusing thing out.

(btw. I am a laugher, too. When I get stressed it helps me to regulate and release steam. I have learned that to giggle or laugh makes the situations with my pwBPD infinitely worse.)