Talked her into going back to MC

[Hmcbart]

After a big blow up this weekend I told her I wanted us to go back to MC.

Her first response was shock. I could see in in her eyes. I told her I wanted her to choose the person so it didn't end up like last time. She refused and said I had to pick.

I agreed to choose the person and her next words were laughable. She said "I want to see who it is first and if I don't approve I'm not going".

I asked her about her schedule this month and she automatically started coming up with dates she can't do it. She doesn't work but volunteers at the school a lot.

I sent her over a list of MC's to choose from and she actually choose one. Then she sent me the dates she couldn't do it.  Out of 4 weeks I was left with 1 day to choose from.

Is this normal?

I know she doesn't want to go. I feel it's because she doesn't want to hear that she could have some responsibility in our marriage. That's what happened last time. It was all good when I was the one who was supposedly doing everything wrong. When he pointed out that she also had to accept some of the responsibility, she no longer liked the therapist.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[OffRoad]

I'm sorry about the blow up. It'd be nice to have a calm weekend.

Actually, if she volunteers a lot, this time of year is notoriously busy. There are tons of end of the year activities to get organized and done.  Don't be surprised if she tries to cancel out at the last minute with some good "volunteer" excuse.

Of course she doesn't want to be told she has any responsibility for the problems. She has BPD. In BPD land, if she has responsibility, then she is wrong. If she is wrong, she is defective. If she is defective, she is worthless. Who wants to go somewhere and be told they are worthless? 

Does the MC you agreed on understand BPD? As most people here know, proving to a pwBPD that they are wrong or are part (or all) of the problem does NOTHING to solve the problem.  I think we've all gone through the part of our lives where we thought if we could just explain it better to our pwBPD, they'd get it and everything would be OK, but it just doesn't work that way and so many MCs don't get that.

[waverider]

What do you hope to be different this time that wont end in a defensive blamefest?

[formflier]

 

Probably good idea to talk through your last few counseling experiences

How many times have you been before? 

If I remember right... .once counselor mentioned she should have sex with you... .she bolted... .or something like that.

Goal is to find some low trigger items to work on first.

FF

[formflier]

After a big blow up this weekend I told her I wanted us to go back to MC.

What was blowup about?

[Hmcbart]

Does the MC you agreed on understand BPD?

I don't know if this person understands BPD or not. I know she has been doing it for a while. Im hopeful she can catch on quickly. From reading several things on here, it seems best not to bring it up to the therapist. Not may be better to let her draw her own conclusions.

What do you hope to be different this time that wont end in a defensive blamefest?

I'm hoping to just be able to have a third party involved. When it's just her and I, everything is isolated. Bringing things out into the open a little more may help. If for no other reason than my own validation.

Probably good idea to talk through your last few counseling experiences

How many times have you been before? 

If I remember right... .once counselor mentioned she should have sex with you... .she bolted... .or something like that.

Goal is to find some low trigger items to work on first.

FF

We went about 5 times before. Over the course of about 8 months. The biggest trigger then was the issue of sex. I wanted it she did not. It ended when she played the victim card and said she only agreed because the counselor was a male. She said she felt like she was being forced to agree to something she didn't want to.

Her memory of what happened and mine are totally different of course.

[Hmcbart]

After a big blow up this weekend I told her I wanted us to go back to MC.

What was blowup about?

The blow up is a long story. I will try to post it shortly as I'm getting ready to walk into a meeting at work. I will say up front that I played my part in causing it. I did act childish and passive aggressive to an extent... .more on this later.

[formflier]

I don't know if this person understands BPD or not. I know she has been doing it for a while. Im hopeful she can catch on quickly. From reading several things on here, it seems best not to bring it up to the therapist. Not may be better to let her draw her own conclusions.

Does your wife have a diagnosis?  My remembrance is that she does not.

Be very detailed in describing actions... .(when appropriate)... .I would stay away from drawing conclusions

Let the pros do that.

FF

[Hmcbart]

No she is not diagnosed. Half the time I feel like I have these days. But yes concrete examples I have. I started trying to document a lot of what happens, good or bad, between us. I have used it in an argument with her before when she was accusing me of something I didn't do or say. I know I shouldn't have done it but I was at the end of my rope.

Needless to say she doesn't like when I do that. I need to practice self regulation for a therapy session. I don't want to come off as someone who blames her for everything thing. I just want help getting through to her. I need her to understand that I am worn out from it all.

[formflier]

Needless to say she doesn't like when I do that.

Actually... .she probably did... .but won't admit it.  When pwBPD get the "nons" to blow up or act out... .it "does something for them"... .maybe a dysfunctional way of showing them you care and are still interested in them.

  I just want help getting through to her.

This is MC... .you want help making your r/s better... .you want to communicate more effectively... .etc etc.  If the goal is to "get through to her"... .I think you will be frustrated.

Note:  The lightbulb may switch on at some point... .but that should not be your goal.  Having a goal that will frustrate you is not a good plan.  Think baby steps... .getting through to her is Olympic long jump.

I need her to understand that I am worn out from it all.

Good... .but be careful in defining "it all".  Don't blame... .but allow that she can be part of the solution.

After all... ."Help me understand why conflict is happening... ."

Then... .validate what you hear... .

[Michelle27]

MC is a crapshoot for pwBPD. It was a nightmare for me 4.5 years ago... .he admits now he sabotaged all 3 counselors we tried as well as a couple's communication course I signed us up for.  They are so good at their coping strategy of manipulation and without a knowledgable counselor, most of the time, it's doomed to go off the rails without the counselor being in the know and the pwBPD being receptive, a rare combination from my own experience and what I've read here... .

I know I sound very negative, but I think it's more valuable for us "nons" to get  our own therapy and learn our own coping skills and unlearn our own codependent behavior.

[Hmcbart]

Ff:

I think she did enjoy it. But I think it's a lot more to do with deflection. I can have a legitimate complaint but if I get triggered and angry (I did) the complaint is no longer valid. She will just say that she does or doesn't do something because of the mean things I say to her.

She was in a much better mood last night. She even offered to cook my dinner. Something just for me. I didn't know how to respond when she said that, it took me by complete surprise. If she offers to have sex next, I may hyperventilate 

I am pretty sure it's a lot of set up. The dates she can go to therapy are all several weeks out. She will start acting like a part of the marriage for a bit so she can say that she is doing everything I have asked her to do. After 20 years you learn a thing or two about people's motives. I would love to be wrong and find out she genuinely wants to do it and be part of the marriage, but history is a great teacher.

Michele:

I'm actually in my own therapy now. Working on setting boundaries. Or at least learning about them. I still have a long way to go. I'm an optimist most of the time. I am hopeful that we can get something from therapy. It took 3 sessions last time for the MC to realize I wasn't a monster and that we both needed to make changes. That's when it went down hill and she felt victimized.

This time I only offered a choice of female therapists. I am removing the victimization from the choices to quit. I will exhaust every avenue before I give up on anything.

[Hmcbart]

Ok, some specifics about MC.

I want to work on our communication. Specifically, how if I say something that unintentionally hurts her feelings, how to talk through it. Even more specifically, how to talk through it if she is upset with me for days or weeks over the issue. Even more specifically, how to talk through it if I do not perceive what I did or said was bad, or if I consider it minor at best.

How do I convey this to a MC without coming across as accusatory?

Sadly I'm used to the way things work. Telling her she isn't doing enough to help around the house gets the same punishment as going to a "strip club". There is no gray area and the punishment never fits the crime. I have been dealing with this in her parenting of the kids. Spilling water while putting a dirty dish in the sink can garner a week of no TV or video games.

[formflier]

 

I am a fan of "help me understand"

so... .maybe

"Help us with some options to solve this... ."

Remember... .not just one option... .make sure wife has choices... .put ball in her court... .go with her choice.

The trick is to make sure you are ok with either choice... .

FF

[Hmcbart]

But if it's an initial visit, how to start off?

I remember last time I don't think I actually said anything fir the first 45 minutes. I just listened to her talking about her feelings on it. I only chimed in when she would say something that wasn't even remotely true. I did this for the first 3 meetings before I ever actually and said anything substantial.

Of course that's what ended the MC. It's all well and good when I was just sitting there accepting most of what she said. When I was actually given a voice and felt I had an equal say in the way our marriage was going to go... .she quickly became the victim of two men trying to force her to agree to something she didn't want to do.

[formflier]

But if it's an initial visit, how to start off?

Follow MC lead on this... .allowing someone to dominate is not good.

If you want... .it's ok to ask the question upfront. 

"How do we take turns... .?"

Better yet

"how do we set the agenda for each session?"

My current MC has a paper that we each turn in... .we rank what we want to talk about.

She looks at issues we have each turned in... .and then guides the session from there... .

FF

[Hmcbart]

Good ideas.

The first 3 sessions I let her dominate to learn what was going on. She had seen the person as her therapist for a few months before we switched it to MC. I learned what all was going on in those first sessions.

When I pressed for us to go back after taking a few months off (her choice), she didn't say much at first. When we sat down and he asked us what's be going on, she looked at me and said "well you are the one who wanted to come so tell him what's wrong". Not exactly word for word but close.

As soon as I started talking she began interrupting everything I was saying. The therapist had to ask her to stop so I could finish what I was saying. I don't like to assume but if she doesn't want to go to begin with, it may be a lot like that.