So... she sends me a clarification email..while I'm asleep

[formflier]

OK... .below is a link to some other stuff that is going on.  My guess is that this is related. 

I have clearly told her... .several times... .that I have no expectation of her to come home and do all the work.  So... .my guess is that she is mind reading and making assumptions when she says this.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=277437.0;all




formflier,   I have asked you on many occasions while you are at home to keep the house clean and help with dinner,clean our bathroom etc and you just continue on and ignore my request.   Please explain this behavior. When you were working and I was home, I did not expect you to come home from work and clean the house, make dinner, take care of the kids, while I painted a hallway or worked on some other project. Its not ok for you to deem yourself a pass from taking care of these things and instead work on vehicles... .Working on vehicles needs to be done but not at the expense of everything else.

It is wrong to do what you prefer and leave all the rest for me. That is selfish. I understand you could happily live in a filthy home, but the rest of us shouldn't have to because some excuse it by saying its just 'lived in'.  Can you just continue on and "win" by refusing to clean until I do it, to keep the kids from living in filth? Absolutely... .but that's not the actions of a man... .not one I could love anyway. I am proud of you for trying hard to find a new job, but  Life is not about you getting what you want at the expense of others. You knew if  I did not go with you to pick up the rental car I would not able to drive it and you said nothing when I volunteered to stay and wait for the tow truck instead of going with you to pick up the rental car. When I asked for the keys to go somewhere you laughed and said I couldnt drive it because my name is not on it. Why hardship for me makes you smile I do not understand. I thought when you were without your family it might have changed you. (formflier wife)


So... .I figured I would email something simple back... .to encourage a conversation.

Below is my reply.

"

Let's find time to have a conversation about this.

I love you!

"

This morning we woke up.  Had really nice cuddle in bed (I had no idea about email then).  Prayed... .and I got up to get kids going.  She is off teaching.  Really nice hug and kiss when she left the house.  I had sent my reply then... .but didn't mention the email.

There is nothing about this email exchange or method of communication that has been agreed on in counseling.  In fact... .we have both agreed in counseling that this type of thing... .with all of the "suggestions" about my motives... .wanting to "win"... .etc etc.  is unhelpful to our r/s.

We agreed if we were having a hard time talking to the other person that we could write out a question... .go hand it to the person... .and now the other person was in charge of thinking about the question... .getting themselves calm and collected... .and going to provide an answer.  This might take a day... .whatever... .but I've used that method a couple times with success. 

I don't think she has tried it

I'm open to suggestions.  My plan is to take a walk with her and go some where to sit and talk for a while this evening... .I'll bring it up then.  Again... .I'm open to suggestions... .

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Oh man, I have not followed all of your situation, so I know I'm speaking from not knowing so much... .

However, I did see a post you had a bit ago about the chores. 

Forgive me if I am so naive to put a practical/logical approach to this but... .

Can you just make a chore chart?

List all household responsibilities?  Include tasks such as pay bills online, buy groceries, drive kid to sport etc.  That way if you need to work on the car all day... .you can reassign a chore?

I KNOW this is not about chores, this is likely about what she is feeling and clearly projecting stuff, and trying to blame you for something.

What would happen if there was clarity in expectations and written out?

Would that just be another fight of... ."Oh, you think it is fair that I do all the dirty jobs, you got the easy ones?"

[Notwendy]

FF, I see this as a Mars and Venus thing- and the role reversal with her being at work and you at home. I know that I am getting into gender roles, but there are a lot of things that I would think of being at home that my H would not, and would not notice. The car thing is an oversight, but my H can also leave me out of car related stuff as he doesn't think about it.

When one of our kids was born, my H took some time off and his parents came too. H and his dad spent the whole time doing "man" things ( hey we need new tools to fix the shed) while I was all about diapers, feeding. If I said anything about him not helping his reply was " the shed is broken and needed fixing" while I was thinking "please just change a diaper".

I like the idea of sitting down and doing a chore chart. This is about feelings. Listen to her as much as you can, even if you disagree. The actual chores can be decided on the chart, but she wants to be heard first.

[vortex of confusion]

I see a couple of things at play.

First, it seems like there isn't an agreement on what constitutes "filth". Different people have different standards. Even if there is a chore chart, that isn't likely to address the underlying disagreement about what constitutes "filth" or "dirty". From all of the posts of FF's that I have read, it seems like there might be a possibility that FF could do everything on his chore chart and still not live up to her expectations.

Also, it sounds like FF is being blamed for allowing his family to live in filth. That is a huge thing to dump on one person. He is ONE person among 8 or 9. What about contributions from the kids?

Also, what kind of car repairs is she talking about? Are you talking about routine maintenance? Are you talking about necessary repairs? Or are you talking about tinkering with the car just because you can? Does she understand how important it is to care for and maintain vehicles properly? I find that a lot of women and non-car guys lack an understanding of how important it is to take care of vehicles BEFORE they break so that nobody is left stranded on the side of the road. If the house isn't cleaned according to her schedule, there is no potential for somebody to be stranded on the side of the road. Not sure if this applies to the situation. It is something to think about as it might be able to give ideas on how to approach the whole thing about him working on cars instead of cleaning house.

[Notwendy]

One reason I am thinking she sends you emails is that she isn't able to speak to you face to face. Maybe she gets too emotional doing it, or maybe she doesn't think you hear her clearly.

If I were to have asked my H to do something domestic, his response would be to argue his case that who else would fix the shed and how important that was. I agree, I'd have let it go. However, I would not have felt that at least as if he heard me out if he argued his point without at least listening to me. I might have resorted to e mail had it existed at the time.

All marriages can have these issues- BPD or not. What feels like a role reversal to her may feel uncomfortable. I know this is the best situation for you. Some marriages have an agreement about this and it works. For your wife though, there may be some discomfort over this, even if it is the best solution for you at the moment.

[formflier]

 

Great replies... .great questions... .I'll do my best to answer all.  Important... .because I want to chat with her... .assuming she is in ok mood... .this evening.

Chore chart.  Her idea... .she created it.  It exists.  "Enforcement" is haphazard.  She has clearly said that the parent that catches a kid not following the chores... .is responsible to "punish" the child... .enforce. 

OK... .so... .I catch kids... .enforce.  She undoes it... .and they sit and watch TV.  No chores happen.  Sometimes I can bring it up... .and get chores done "Honey... .I've grounded s12... .he is not supposed to be watching TV" .  Most of the time this brings a big sigh.  What follows is either "You should have done something earlier... ." or "s12 go do chores "for daddy""

Alternatively... .when she is in different mood... .she catches people not doing chores... .stomps around the house... .snorts... .cusses... .nobody loves her... .it's kids fault she is yelling... .etc etc.

There are hints of middle ground... .but usually it falls on the two extremes.  Thankfully... .lately... .there have been more sit on the couch lazy times... .no yelling... .than the other.  I take that is progress.

So... .yes there is a chore chart.  I am normally alone in trying to enforce it.  For instance  D18 didn't do chores last night.  I got her up early to do it.  She has stayed in her room working on essay.  No chores done.  She has been up two hours.  Before I left I mentioned again to her that the family needs her to do her part around here.  She said "OK".

If this goes on much past noon... .I'll sit her down for "heart to heart".  This is the daughter that wife and she have set up college deal... .and kept me out of. 

So... .several issues here... .likelihood of wife and I agreeing and holding to "long term" consequences... .we've tried... .she breaks.  Kids know this... .and exploit it.  They are not bad kids.  They strike me as typical teens that will jump under any bar that is set for them... .that's what teens do.

My argument is that we should set the bar higher... .knowing we won't get it... .but that we will get more from them... .than if we set bar lower.  Wife will avoid answering this one (has many times in past)... .and say she doesn't have time to adjust the chore chart... .she has "too much work to do".  "When will you be able to adjust it?"... .I have asked... ."I have no idea... ." is a normal answer.  I take that as "bait" for an argument... .which I avoid and go about whatever I was going to do.

History that bugs my wife... .or has in the past.  I excel at "running" large complex organizations... .process improvement... .etc etc.  It's been a few years... .but last time I was heavily involved... .at her request... .in farm chores (when we lived on farm).  I improved the processes... .got them done sooner... .so we had more time to eat breakfast as a family... .   She enjoyed it for a couple weeks... .then flipped out... .

I could do the same now and fix all this.  But... .if she is not onboard... .I'm not going to put my family through that conflict. 

Not onboard looks like me putting kids on a project... .I leave to manage other kids doing other projects.  She comes in room... .pulls them off what they are doing... .tells them I had them doing it because of some hatred of her... .some love of someone else (usually my mom)... .or other weirdness.

I'm going to cut this reply now... .and try to make sure I've answered other questions.

I have no intention of getting into all the BPD behaviors in tonights talk.  Just request that we talk in person about this... .and that I need help understanding some of the things she said in the email... .they are unclear to me.

FF

[formflier]

What would happen if there was clarity in expectations and written out?

Would that just be another fight of... ."Oh, you think it is fair that I do all the dirty jobs, you got the easy ones?"

It's been a while since she has agreed to write out expectations.  I've completed everything and she will find some reason that they "don't count"... .or "i still don't love her"

Before I learned about BPD family... .I would go for "written agreements".    FF will do this... .ff wife will be happy with ff that he did this. 

Bleeehhh... .that didn't work well... .we had some big arguments over that.

Then... .even after I was here... .we did written agreements for  FF will do this... .ff wife will do this.  If I went first... .she would have excuses why her stuff wasn't done... .or I didn't get family time.

So... .I then went to policy of agreeing to things if I got "mine first"... .

Yeah... .you guys see where this is going... .

We haven't done a written agreement in ... .gosh... .6 months or more... .probably more.

I was a fan of inviting unbiased outside scrutiny... .counselors... .others... .anyone... .to verify "status" of agreements.  After a couple times of being "called out" for noncompliance... .that was over.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Lol, honestly, the reason I posted is because I greatly related to his w in this thread, I am hoping my perspective... .while of course mine/not hers... .is helpful.

I HAVE sat up at night writing the exBF long emails.  (We did not have any therapy agreement otherwise on how to handle an issue). The reason is... .he was asleep, I wanted to connect.  I felt "ignored"throughout the day with him not participating in things I expected of him, (he had a tendency to withdraw) then here I was feeling alone again, going to bed... .and restless for feeling I needed to get this off my chest.  After I got it off my chest, I'd feel more at peace. (My emails were not sprinkled with insults or accusations... .as far as I can tell)

Had I received some more acknowledgement for my efforts... .it would have went a long way... .  Such as a reconnection and appreciation of sorts at the end of the day like: "Hey dear, thanks for holding down the fort all on your own while I was working on the car, you're awesome!"  (But again... .she likely would have a stronger emotional "need" than this)

Also what I related to (if we are "allowed" to relate to the SO here) is the feeling of always being in charge of everything.  I think much of this feeling is a bit as NotWendy says and a Mars/Venus issue.  I would have been frustrated if my SO typically contributed to chores on the weekend, had a certain role... .but then just "dropped" it all to go work on the car.  While I understand and appreciate that the car is important, also the chores and other expectations are.  While I prefer he have announced to me, "Hey, the car really needs such and such done, I realize this means a bit extra help around the house by you.  Do we have options of when me working on the car works for you?" Bottom line: when my SO makes a unilateral decision that affects me and the family... .I want to feel included or considered in some way... .not like he just goes off and does his thing solo with no affect.  (Maybe this is not what happened... .but just where my thoughts are.)

I realize that I cannot speak for anyone.  I also realize that he is living in a way different BPD dynamic than I, or others... .   However, I wonder if starting with what originally would be reasonable... .to help understand her reasonable expectation hiding underneath the BPD over emotional expression of it is ever helpful?  (Idk... .I'm just testing all this communication stuff out myself)


(2 new post since... .but I'll post anyway)

[formflier]

I see a couple of things at play.

First, it seems like there isn't an agreement on what constitutes "filth".

Agreed... . And her standards are all over the place.  So... .today's agreement... .WILL NOT... .be agreed to tomorrow... .

Different people have different standards. Even if there is a chore chart, that isn't likely to address the underlying disagreement about what constitutes "filth" or "dirty". From all of the posts of FF's that I have read, it seems like there might be a possibility that FF could do everything on his chore chart and still not live up to her expectations.

Yep... .been there done that... .proved I did it... ."poor FF... .you did all this work but since you think xyz about me... ."  (that has been long time ago... .but she has acknowledged all done... .and found a way to blame me)

Also, it sounds like FF is being blamed for allowing his family to live in filth. That is a huge thing to dump on one person. He is ONE person among 8 or 9. What about contributions from the kids?

See other post about chore chart... .

Also, what kind of car repairs is she talking about? Are you talking about routine maintenance? Are you talking about necessary repairs? Or are you talking about tinkering with the car just because you can?

I'm saying necessary.  She... .at some points... .has agreed... .even asked for certain things to be done.  So... .lately... .it's about brakes.  Because I was trying to help out around the house... .brake jobs got put off.  Pad material wore off... .and brake rotors got chewed up and had to be replaced... .vice "turned" or "refinished".  

$15 to turn a rotor... .$64 to replace.

Luckily we have older... .paid for cars and trucks.  :)18s truck has an intermittent ABS light.  I have goal to get it fixed in a month... .or... .take it to shop and pay big bucks (possibly).  

I'm doing research on how to diagnoses and chase this down.  Parts are expensive enough that I don't want to "toss" a sensor at it.

Right front ABS sensor is the code that is being set... .sometimes.  The sensor is about $200.  The light starting coming on after I put new rotors on it... .because the others got ground to pieces.  See above... .

My gut says it is the new rotor... .and not the sensor.  

Does she understand how important it is to care for and maintain vehicles properly? I find that a lot of women and non-car guys lack an understanding of how important it is to take care of vehicles BEFORE they break so that nobody is left stranded on the side of the road.

Yes and sometimes she comes and helps me.  Holds light... .does light wrench turning.  She doesn't enjoy it... .but we spend time together.  This has been a while.  I usually take a kid with me to teach them and spend time.

I have offered for her to come with me to work on vehicles... .she has declined lately.  

If the house isn't cleaned according to her schedule, there is no potential for somebody to be stranded on the side of the road. Not sure if this applies to the situation. It is something to think about as it might be able to give ideas on how to approach the whole thing about him working on cars instead of cleaning house.

Working on cars is a less periodic thing than cleaning house.  In my world... .you didn't forget to eat this morning... .but you forgot to put dishes in dishwasher?  Cleaning is part of life... .if all pitched in... .it would go quickly.

If it gets left to one person... .or a few... .now it's a big job.

FF

[formflier]

One reason I am thinking she sends you emails is that she isn't able to speak to you face to face. Maybe she gets too emotional doing it, or maybe she doesn't think you hear her clearly.

I plan to ask her... .gently... .about this.  I have in the past and get various answers.  My belief is that for many... .many months now... .I have had "proper" responses... .or asked "clarifying" questions in the correct way.

If I were to have asked my H to do something domestic, his response would be to argue his case that who else would fix the shed and how important that was. I agree, I'd have let it go. However, I would not have felt that at least as if he heard me out if he argued his point without at least listening to me. I might have resorted to e mail had it existed at the time.

My response is usually to clarify her priorities.  Because usually... .my view is that what she is asking for is not going to get done... .so I want to do most important (to her) first... .

I rarely get usable input on priorities.

All marriages can have these issues- BPD or not. What feels like a role reversal to her may feel uncomfortable. I know this is the best situation for you. Some marriages have an agreement about this and it works. For your wife though, there may be some discomfort over this, even if it is the best solution for you at the moment.

OK... .so... .my "remembrance"... .is that I was expected to come home and help with chores.  I was regularly asked to do them... .and regularly did them.

Yes there were times I bowed out... .but that was usually do to an big deadline.

Many times though... .I would ask her to read a grant I was writing... .and go do what she was working on... .she would hand me the paper all marked up (think long narratives)... .and it was very helpful to me.

FF

[formflier]

Lol, honestly, the reason I posted is because I greatly related to his w in this thread, I am hoping my perspective... .while of course mine/not hers... .is helpful.

It was very helpful... .thanks.

I am basically looking for an "emotionally healthy" response to this.  Something that puts the ball back in her court.

I'm positive that I can discuss this with her... .and not be triggered... .or walk away if she starts blaming or doing BPD traits.

I'm feeling top of my game... .so to speak... .today.

I also want to figure out some "precedent" to set... .

I do not want to set a precedent that says... .send FF written tasking and it gets done.    NO! 

If she would ask in writing... .maybe... .

Having a talk... .where she can ask how I am feeling... .I can ask how she is feeling... .that is the precedent I would like to set... .and I'm going for... .

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Lol, honestly, the reason I posted is because I greatly related to his w in this thread, I am hoping my perspective... .while of course mine/not hers... .is helpful.

It was very helpful... .thanks.

I am basically looking for an "emotionally healthy" response to this.  Something that puts the ball back in her court.

I'm positive that I can discuss this with her... .and not be triggered... .or walk away if she starts blaming or doing BPD traits.

I'm feeling top of my game... .so to speak... .today.

I also want to figure out some "precedent" to set... .

I do not want to set a precedent that says... .send FF written tasking and it gets done.    NO! 

If she would ask in writing... .maybe... .

Having a talk... .where she can ask how I am feeling... .I can ask how she is feeling... .that is the precedent I would like to set... .and I'm going for... .

FF

Do you think it is possible for her to listen to your feelings first, while she is still sitting on her own? 

Are you open to hearing hers first?

(Likely the talk will never get back to you tho huh?)

[MaroonLiquid]

This reminds me of my r/s with my wife.  When we first got together, my wife told me that her and the kids would be responsible for cleaning because she works out of the home, the kids should start being responsible (she always enabled them to do nothing and therefore they always give her crap when it was time to do chores, but that's a different story), and I have a 1 hour drive one-way to work (2 hours a day total).  Anyway, she told me that helping her fold clothes, or helping her do dishes would be sufficient and that she always wanted me to have a good home cooked meal when I got home.  Even though she offered, I told her that I didn't mind doing more.  So after a year or so, she would nag me about doing more around the house.  I reminded her of what she said, and well, of course that was never said or what she meant (how convenient  ).  I made the suggestion of having a "cleaning day" every saturday morning early (between 9-10AM) and maintaining throughout the week.  She agreed.  That lasted about two weeks.  The kids learned if you give her crap, she will give in.  It got to where the kids would sleep in and she wouldn't wake them up and her excuse was, "... .they work hard at school and have extra curricular activities.  Their only job should be their schoolwork."     So the housework fell to the two of us.  She would then dysregulate because "she did everything and I did nothing", yet the truth was, her children did nothing.  God forbid I bring up that truth.  Then a few weeks later, she said, "You need to help cook 3-4 meals a week because I have a lot of work to do and need to work late." and gave me a list of chores up and above that that I needed to complete including doing the dishes on the nights I cook."  I asked what the kids would be responsible for because they do nothing and it's not fair for us to work all day and be responsible for everything at home.  She then again reiterated that it was not fair for them to have more on their plate then just school.  My response was, "This is coming from a woman who worked since she was thriteen and carried straight A's and went to college and had jobs to work her way through.  I had a job through high school, kept up my schoolwork, extra curricular activities and was required to cook a meal twice a week because my mom was a working single mother."  Her response was, "They don't need the same life that we had.  It's our job to do better."  I said, "It's our job to teach them how to be responsible adults and work for what they have."  :)idn't matter and nothing changed.  She then saw a "personal growth coach" who said, "Can you explain to me why you and your husband do it all and your kids do nothing?"  She then gave them a chore chart that lasted about three days until they complained and she said, "It's not worth it to fight with them."   She stopped going to the personal growth coach.  :)idn't want to be accountable.    UGHHHHHHH.      Typing this irritates me.    

[Sunfl0wer]

This may not work for you... .but I just remembered something that worked for us!... .

(My ex is uN/BPD... .more traits tho than full blown anything)

We had a bit of a habit of bedtime massage time for a while.  Always me being the giver, but I never minded this too much.  I just liked to reconnect at night before bed, especially after a busy day of kid stuff or other life distractions.  I could always convince him with an invitation of a "10 min massage".  It was my sneaky way of getting him to come to bed on time... .not be cranky the next day... .helped him (and me) to relax and undid many of his negative (and mine) feelings he accumulated.  It is proven to help with oxytocin release too, which helps bond couples!

During this time I would ask him about his day... .it turned into a soothing tone, dreamy, free association kind of talk.  Often he felt guilty for getting the massage... .(More the NPD of him than the BPD tho)... .So he would let me get some things off my chest.  (I was careful about not going off on any heated tension topic... .but gentle things I wanted a partner to hear).  He had an easier time listening to me this way... .as my touch served to "prove" my loving intentions... .and my voice and tone would remain soothing throughout it... .as I could feel if I got tense... .as it would come out in my touch... .my hands... .and he'd respond... .so I'd then adjust till I felt his body give in again... .it was a good way for me to feel and help his physiological response to my message. 

We didn't always use massage time to talk about tricky topics.  I would never want him to associate stress with touch.  However, the times we did talk, and I did get to express some frustrations, and I was massaging him... .were often the most satisfying to me... .and feeling more heard than usual. 

Does this make sense?

[formflier]

 

Maroon,

we have very similar thoughts on running a house and raising kids... .

I'm not the biggest sports guy... .I've coached a couple of kids teams... .not my regular thing.  I suspect we are similar on that as well.  If you are going to participate... .give it your all... .then the coach will push for a bit more... .that is where growth happens.

FF

[vortex of confusion]

Agreed... . And her standards are all over the place.  So... .today's agreement... .WILL NOT... .be agreed to tomorrow... .

And it also sounds like she holds you to a different standard than she holds for herself. From the stuff that you have shared, it seems like she is trying to set you up for failure. If you are working with her and doing what she asks, then she has no reason to be upset with you.

I'm doing research on how to diagnoses and chase this down.  Parts are expensive enough that I don't want to "toss" a sensor at it.

What about cleaning the sensor? If the rotor got chewed up, is it possible that metal flakes got on the sensor and that is why it is throwing throwing the code sometimes?

Working on cars is a less periodic thing than cleaning house.  In my world... .you didn't forget to eat this morning... .but you forgot to put dishes in dishwasher?  Cleaning is part of life... .if all pitched in... .it would go quickly.

How often do you work on the cars? It sounds like a situation where you working on the cars equals "You work on the cars all the time to the detriment of everything else." It doesn't matter that you went for weeks or months without working on a car.

I also wanted to comment on this from the original post:

Please explain this behavior. When you were working and I was home, I did not expect you to come home from work and clean the house, make dinner, take care of the kids, while I painted a hallway or worked on some other project.

Do you have those expectations of her? Or are they expectations that she has placed on herself? I know this argument as I have gotten into this line of thinking. When I get home from work some nights, the kids clamor at me and want this and that. Some nights, I get home from work and the kids are hungry and the house is a mess and I feel like your wife has described it in her email.

1. My husband can try to feed the kids. They tell him that they aren't hungry and don't want anything. When I get home, the story changes. If I hadn't taken the time to talk to everyone, then it would be easy to assume that my husband is being lazy. Yes, there are a lot of times when he is. I have gotten to a point where on nights when I work I tell him to stop and get pizza for him and the kids to eat.

2. My kids don't really listen to dad for some reason. Part of it is lack of respect for him. I am continually reminding them that dad is their parent too. If wife isn't pushing for the kids to respect dad, then that is an issue to possibly be addressed. Also, if wife has been a stay at home mom for all of those years, she probably has a different kind of bond with the kids that makes some things easier for her.

3. Even if you did every single chore on her list, it is quite likely that she won't notice it or acknowledge it. I am basing this on my experiences living with so many kids. I can sweep the floor and ten minutes later it looks like I did nothing. All it takes is one dog or cat to walk across the floor. I know that I will clean and by the end of the day, I look at the house and think, "What is the friggin' point?" I busted my butt all day long and by the end of the day it looks like I didn't do a darn thing. That is what happens when you have a large family. I am wondering if you can tap into her feelings a bit. I know that every mother that I know (working or stay at home) has this same complaint/lament. And, some of it goes back to gender roles/expectations. Whether a mom works or not, she is typically the one that is held responsible for a dirty house. As such, a lot of women take the condition of the house very personally.

[formflier]

 

Massage:

I do this alot... .however... .I don't bring up "issues".  Massage usually leads to sex.  We have a very active sex life... .that... .luckily... .has pretty much escaped the BPD trait drama.

And... .wife is cycling fairly quickly now... .so... .I can usually wait something out... .offer massage... .and off we go.

Yes ladies... .I do give massages where there is no sex... .sometimes... .rarely... .   ... .

well... .sometimes I don't intend it to go that way... .and... . 

FF

[formflier]

 

I'm doing research on how to diagnoses and chase this down.  Parts are expensive enough that I don't want to "toss" a sensor at it.

What about cleaning the sensor? If the rotor got chewed up, is it possible that metal flakes got on the sensor and that is why it is throwing throwing the code sometimes?

Yeah... .so far all I've done is cleared the codes a few times to try and watch the pattern of when it comes back.  Random.

I can start and drive 2-3 times... .maybe more... .before it comes back.  I took wheel off and looked at sensor... .no issues.

Next step... .in a few days... .take wheel off and take of sensor... .liberal application of electronic parts cleaner spray... .put it back... .cross fingers.

I'm also looking online. 

If everytime I cleared it... .it came right back... .I would be more comfortable that it was "just" the sensor.

FF

[formflier]

 

So... .big update

She comes homes from half day of teaching.  I'm outside running pressure washer.  I have done some work inside and some outside... .her list is not "done"... .but progress made (IMO)

Real reason I'm running pressure washer is to clean off some greasy parts... .and there are some tires that I have been needing to sell on c-list... .so I wash washing them off too... .(so they would look nice for c-list pics)

I go out and great her... .looking ridiculous with water and stuff all over me... .and my safety googles on.  Nice kiss home... .all is well.

We chat some.  She says she is going to take s19 in to get pants and shirts (good to spend time with him).  I say great... .will be awesome time... .can you each drive a car? and take them by tire shop... .(rotations are past due).  She agrees... .all is well.

I finish outside and head in the house.  She is demanding password to get on a mortgage company website.  I told her what I thought it was... .she says already tried it and didn't work.  

I followed with "check your contact in google... .the password hint is in there."  She seems to get more upset and says  "I just want you to tell me the password... .they didn't get paid "last month "

I asked her is she checked out checking account... .because they had been paid last month... .I was sure of it.  Instead of responding to my query about checking account... .she waves the mortgage paper in front of me... .(this is typical behavior... .when I get a direct response to a question... .a usable response... .I fall over in shock... .it rarely happens)

I said if you would like I can work on getting you in the website... .no verbal response... .she hands me the laptop.

So... .I take out my phone... .I'm trying to get to my password hint and... .she starts the inquisition.

her:  "So... .are your tires good and clean?"  Me:  "I hope so... .I'll checkem when they dry... ."

her:  "So... .you wanna tell me why you are cleaning tires instead of doing what I asked (I didn't bite on the "ask" you to do... .?"

me:  "I'd love to talk about that in just a minute... .I'm a bit scatterbrained right now... .and can only juggle one thing at a time... .I'll get this password figured out quickly... ."

her:  "It looks to me like you haven't done anything I have asked... ."

I stood... .said ... ."I can only do one thing at a time... ."  and walked out of the room.

I went upstairs to different computer and kept working on access.  She had tried a couple... .I find the password and enter it... .and get locked out.  Because she was downstairs on website and clicked on "don't know password" or something.

I went back down... .and let her know of the lockout... .and I had to place a call to get it open... .and would let her know when it was done.

I did  this... .handled the payment issue.  Showed her confirmation numbers and started to go down road of "this month"... ."last month".  I let her know when had paid "last month" and that the issue was about this month... .

She started trying to explain that we are supposed to pay a month early.  I just said... ."oh"... .and dropped it.  She is not that stupid... .she was most likely trying to avoid admitting what she said was wrong.  Money is trigger issue... .math with money is trigger issue... .(sigh)

Anyway... .I asked if I could have a minute or two to figure out which two vehicles need to go in... .I would call quickly.  She looked at me but didn't respond.  

I went upstairs... .made the call... .figured it out... .and went downstairs. 5 minutes... .tops.

1 car is gone.  

I call her phone... .no answer.  I call sons phone... .he answers.  I ask where they are... .he says "on interstate"... .I ask to talk to mommy.

She asks what she can do for me... .I said it would be great if you could take van and s19 car in (she is in another vehicle).  

She starts going on about how I haven't done what she asked... .so I'm not going to help you.  I don't take bait.  

I let her know I would love to talk about it in person.  She keeps asking me for details of what I did... .etc etc.  I deflected and said I looked forward to talking in person... .and tried to validate that it was tough to not get requests fulfilled.

Finally:

I said... ."that's fine honey... .it's not the end of the world if it doesn't get done today.  It was a request... .I'm ok with hearing no."

In a loud voice... ."WELL... .my answer is NO!"  click

A touch of trigger was felt by me... .but I think I dealt with it ok.

She doesn't let it go.

She calls back... .I answer... ."I'm coming back to do as you have asked... .I don't want to be a "jackass" like some people have been around here lately (again... .didn't take bait... .I'm sure I was supposed to ask "who" or argue.

Wonderful... .I really appreciate it... .see you in a bit

She comes home and keeps s19 next to her.  "So... .you wanted to talk... ."  I say... ."we can either talk now or later... .whatever is better for you... .?"

her... ."Well"

pause... .

me... ."would you like to talk now or later... .?"

her... ."I've got time... ."  (again... .notice... .she will not directly answer... .very common)

me: "OK... .let's go in and chat."

her "I'll talk right here... ."  

me:  ok

her:  "It seems like you are ignoring my requests and doing whatever you want... .you haven't done anything I've asked... ."

me:  "That's tough to feel... .I can see your point of view and how you come to that conclusion... .there has been a lot going on... ."  (I let her know some unexpected stuff which she was aware of... .that I had done some of the work... .but was not declaring it done... .and would continue to do the best I could)

I explained the pressure washer thing... .and laid out the schedule of why that mattered... .

I assured her that I would do the best I could and that I would prefer that we talk about the schedule of the day rather than do written requests.  That way you can make your requests to me... .I can make requests to you... .you can share your issues... .I can share mine... .and then we will have joint goals to chase.

Not much response... .

She leans in for  a quick peck... .and she and s19 are on their way... .

FF

sorry so long... .this is my life... .  good news is only one time I felt triggered... .and calmed quickly... .

[vortex of confusion]

Why did you call her after you saw that one car was gone?

Her leaving like that was her way of telling you no. It was a crappy way to say NO but it seemed like a no nonetheless.

From where I am sitting, it seems like you didn't take her concerns into consideration. She has clearly said that her concern in the house. She comes home and you are asking her to do stuff with the car. Why couldn't you take the cars in to get the tires rotated?

It seems like the two of you have different priorities. She is focused on the house and is pushing you to participate in the house stuff the way she wants it done and it seems like you are focused on the car stuff and are pushing her to participate in it even when she has other things to do.

[GaGrl]

With the logistics involved in a family of 8 children, it would seem there is quite a bit to coordinate daily.  How quickly can this be done?  My thought is that a commitment to just 10 minutes of coordinating tasks, activities, driving, and expectations would go a long way each morning.  Then perhaps another 5-7 minutes in the evening to touch base on what got done, what didn't, what the evening looks like.

[formflier]

From where I am sitting, it seems like you didn't take her concerns into consideration. She has clearly said that her concern in the house. She comes home and you are asking her to do stuff with the car. Why couldn't you take the cars in to get the tires rotated?

I see that... .but... .if I take car in... .guess what I'm not working on... .?  She had announced she wanted to go to town (20 to 25 minutes away) to shop... .two people were going... .so... .two cars can get done. 

We've done this... .lots of times before... .so no special trip needs to be made.  She had already agreed to do it.

I had not agreed to clean the house... .big... .BIG... .BIG... .difference in my book.  One that I'm obviously comfortable taking a stand on.  It's not the house... .it's the not asking... .the dictatorial style.

Clarification... .I had cleaned the house... .some stuff she didn't ask for... .some she did... .but... .maybe... .50% done... .maybe.

For instance... .she didn't ask me to blow off the porches and sidewalks (front and back)... .but I spent time doing that... .instead of cleaning inside... .because house will stay a bit cleaner... .a bit.

She doesn't do this... .and thinks it's silly.  I don't make her clean my way... .I won't let her make me clean her way.

I called her after car was gone to see what was up... .to remove assumptions.  I didn't want to assume the ran to the store and would be back in 5... .when they intended to be gone for hours.  Turns out my guess was correct... .that she cancelled her agreement and drove off... .but... .assumptions are bad... .at least in our r/s.

FF

[formflier]

With the logistics involved in a family of 8 children, it would seem there is quite a bit to coordinate daily.  How quickly can this be done?  My thought is that a commitment to just 10 minutes of coordinating tasks, activities, driving, and expectations would go a long way each morning.  Then perhaps another 5-7 minutes in the evening to touch base on what got done, what didn't, what the evening looks like.

We do this often... .but it depends on mood.  There is no standing agreement on this.  We've tried it in the past... .she seemed to feel controlled by it... .similar to other agreements... .she would continue while it suited her... .

I agree with this idea... .and I would rather run it this way... .might broach this again... .it's been a while.

FF

[vortex of confusion]

I had not agreed to clean the house... .big... .BIG... .BIG... .difference in my book.  One that I'm obviously comfortable taking a stand on.  It's not the house... .it's the not asking... .the dictatorial style.

Would it be accurate to say that she treats you like a child? From all that you have said, it seems like the kids are given more options and more input than you. Would that be accurate? If it is, then maybe that is the underlying issue that could be addressed.

[formflier]

I had not agreed to clean the house... .big... .BIG... .BIG... .difference in my book.  One that I'm obviously comfortable taking a stand on.  It's not the house... .it's the not asking... .the dictatorial style.

Would it be accurate to say that she treats you like a child? From all that you have said, it seems like the kids are given more options and more input than you. Would that be accurate? If it is, then maybe that is the underlying issue that could be addressed.

Yeah... .maybe... .it is not accurate to say she treats me like any of the other kids... .

And... .I don't detect there is a hint of he doesn't know how to do it... .so I better tell him. 

I think... .my guess... .she wants it done NOW... .she keeps repeating... ."I told you to do this and that... ."... .language switches today... .she is talking about "requests".

I seem to see her believing she is the boss of me... .or that I am at her beck and call... .robot... .whatever... .

Not sure... .

But... .yes... .kids get asked what they want to do (usually)... .I rarely get asked... .

So... .maybe she is treating me like a child... .but it is different than the way she treats HER children.

Hmmm

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

I had not agreed to clean the house... .big... .BIG... .BIG... .difference in my book.  One that I'm obviously comfortable taking a stand on.  It's not the house... .it's the not asking... .the dictatorial style.

Would it be accurate to say that she treats you like a child? From all that you have said, it seems like the kids are given more options and more input than you. Would that be accurate? If it is, then maybe that is the underlying issue that could be addressed.

Yeah... .maybe... .it is not accurate to say she treats me like any of the other kids... .

And... .I don't detect there is a hint of he doesn't know how to do it... .so I better tell him. 

I think... .my guess... .she wants it done NOW... .she keeps repeating... ."I told you to do this and that... ."... .language switches today... .she is talking about "requests".

I seem to see her believing she is the boss of me... .or that I am at her beck and call... .robot... .whatever... .

Not sure... .

But... .yes... .kids get asked what they want to do (usually)... .I rarely get asked... .

So... .maybe she is treating me like a child... .but it is different than the way she treats HER children.

Hmmm

FF

Idk... .forgive me if I'm out of place... .

Do you think your wife is more enmeshed with you than any of the kids? 

If so... .

Could this be why they have options and you don't?

If she just sees you as an extension of herself... .it would be ridiculous for her to ask for your opinion on matters, no?

[vortex of confusion]

So... .maybe she is treating me like a child... .but it is different than the way she treats HER children.

My first thought. . .Cinderella! Wicked step child maybe?  

[formflier]

Do you think your wife is more enmeshed with you than any of the kids? 

If so... .

Could this be why they have options and you don't?

If she just sees you as an extension of herself... .it would be ridiculous for her to ask for your opinion on matters, no?

Interesting theory... .

Could be... .

What would be impact of this... .?  How would I properly "react" to this... .?

Hmmm

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

Do you think your wife is more enmeshed with you than any of the kids? 

If so... .

Could this be why they have options and you don't?

If she just sees you as an extension of herself... .it would be ridiculous for her to ask for your opinion on matters, no?

Interesting theory... .

Could be... .

What would be impact of this... .?  How would I properly "react" to this... .?

Hmmm

FF

It explains why she is frustrated with you.  Why she gets annoyed you don't just do what she tells you.  Because... .in her mind... .you two are "one."  So she cannot fathom why you would just not do as she says.  The same way if your left leg decided to grow its own brain and act independently of you.  You'd really freak out and try to get it to do what you expect.

Unfortunately, I do not know how this changes your approach... .to get the most favorable approach.  Sorry!

If it occurs to me... .I'll be certain to share.

[Notwendy]

FF- in your family- massages lead to babies